Can Narcissists really love their children??????

[Anastasia]

Yes, I have read Dr. Grossman's article on this subject; but, I still am not convinced.  I think that some of the milder cases of Nparents might love their children to the best of their ability--which may be far less than the norm--IF their narcissism isn't very extreme.
But a classic Narcisist, I believe from my own observation, just does not have the ability to love anything much UNLESS the person takes care of THEM.  If THEY are the one being taken care of, they seem to be able to give some love to the caretaker.  But if they, the Nparent, is to love someone they take care of, it doesn't seem they have any ability to love that person as they see them simply as a burden that takes away from their time on themselves.  It is all me, me, me to the narcissist, anyway.
Oh, yes, they want their children to adore them, to worship them, to listen and idolize them, the Nparent.  But do they really have the ability to love back?  I don't think so, myself.
Maybe this is based on the classic Nmother I had, myself, but, after observing another Nparent in my family (a female cousin), I don't believe they really have any ability to love or care much at all.  I think that they can fake it for the outside world is all.
Now if the Nparent is caretaking an animal, they seem to have the ability to love.  Why?  Well, an animal will adore who feeds it.  An animal you don't have to get intimate with.  An animal can't talk back.  And the Nparent gets what they want most from an animal:  adoration, worship, love.
I really do not believe a truly classic Narcissistic parent is capable of loving their children or anything that doesn't simply worship and adore them totally.  I understand that this flies completely opposite of what Dr. Grossman has written, but I really have to challenge this theory on this one issue.
Opinions?

[Overcomer]

It seems my mom WANTS to love but I have truly seen her in action giving those who lips the ground she walks on preferential treatment.  She wants the world to see the happy Christian family-but it is nothing but a facade.

[reallyME]

I do not believe a Narcissist can love.  They were most likely not ever shown love, have no neuro-connectors that formed of love, and just can't feel or grasp even the idea of it.

I DO believe that God can take a stony heart and turn it into a soft one, but only HE can do that and only in some situations WILL He.  Not that He wouldn't want EVERYONE to love, because He does, but there are some people in this world who will NEVER love.

~Laura

[Certain Hope]

Now if the Nparent is caretaking an animal, they seem to have the ability to love.  Why?  Well, an animal will adore who feeds it.  An animal you don't have to get intimate with.  An animal can't talk back.  And the Nparent gets what they want most from an animal:  adoration, worship, love.
I really do not believe a truly classic Narcissistic parent is capable of loving their children or anything that doesn't simply worship and adore them totally.  I understand that this flies completely opposite of what Dr. Grossman has written, but I really have to challenge this theory on this one issue.
Opinions?

Anastasia,

I agree with you. My ex husband treated his dogs better than he did us... he'd even make them gravy and special suppers. But he would never feed them or tend to their needs on a regular basis or on any sort of schedule, so they were entirely at his mercy until my children and I began to tend them. At first, he insisted that we shouldn't put out their dinner bowls at the same time daily - because, as he said, he never
did that for them. Why? Because he didn't want them to get used to it... didn't want them to become demanding of him. And yeah, if you starve an animal or a human for basic needs and affection, of course they're going to practically idolize you when you, on rare occasions, do actually provide for their needs. Rotten to the core.

Carolyn

[gratitude28]

No, there is no love. There is jealousy, anger, fear and resentment. The 'good' only ever comes when you have done a good Dog and Pony show or brought them something they want. Or if they live vicariously through you.
Love, Beth

[nogadge]

God helps those who help themselves.  One has got to open up and realise and accept to see changes are needed.  And to want to change and want Gods help,  AND are  willing to accept help
nogadge

[Gaining Strength]

I don't think N parents can love.  Until recently I thought what I had experienced was love.  My parents often spoke of loving and often say, "I love you" but what I experienced is far, far from love, it is manipulation and control and strings and sabotage and is all about what they can get from someone else.  It would be very, very sad if it had not been so extremely damaging to so many people.

[SilverLining]

I don't think N parents can love.  Until recently I thought what I had experienced was love.  My parents often spoke of loving and often say, "I love you" but what I experienced is far, far from love, it is manipulation and control and strings and sabotage and is all about what they can get from someone else.  It would be very, very sad if it had not been so extremely damaging to so many people.

I agree.  I suppose a lot depends on what we mean by "love".  N parents may attend to their children to the best of their ability, but does this constitute love?  Can they really love someone they perceive only as an object or extension of themselves?   They definitely can believe they love this fantasy image, but I'd say it falls far short of real love for the actual other person. 

In my FOO, I never heard the word love until after I had grown up and left the house.  Then all of a sudden it was part of the regular content of their "parenting by mail".   They started talking love only after it became a tool to keep the game going.   

[reallyME]

No, someone can NOT love who never felt nor experienced love and didn't have "love" connect in his/her brain in any way, shape or form and YES IT TAKES GOD, not G-d to heal that in a person.  In fact it takes Yahuwshu`a, Jesus and no I will NOT leave HIm out because HE is the only and best answer if anyone is to heal a narcissist or other person.

[Certain Hope]

In my FOO, I never heard the word love until after I had grown up and left the house.  Then all of a sudden it was part of the regular content of their "parenting by mail".   They started talking love only after it became a tool to keep the game going.   

Once again, Ditto, tjr. Amazing.

Carolyn

[Anastasia]

So many of the responses here said exactly my thoughts so well.  So, guess we are all in agreement.
Isn't it amazing how NPD's all have the exact same behavior?  So predictable.  So easily diagnosed once you are aware of the symptoms.

[SilverLining]

So many of the responses here said exactly my thoughts so well.  So, guess we are all in agreement.
Isn't it amazing how NPD's all have the exact same behavior?  So predictable.  So easily diagnosed once you are aware of the symptoms.

Thanks Anastasia for starting the thread.  It puts a couple more pieces of the puzzle together for me.   My father seems capable of tending to animals, as long as they are relatively safe.  His dog is the only "other" he is really able to relate to.   The positive regard doesn't extend to stronger more potentially dangerous animals, such as bears. 

Thinking back I now realize the first time I heard the word "love" from my parents came shortly after my youngest sibling moved out of the house for college.  Even then I knew it was a phony sentiment.  But only now is the pattern more clear.  They looked at each other and realized they were going to spend the rest of their lives alone in their narcissistic prisons with no offspring for "supply".  So then the project turns to keeping the family together forever. 

     

[Certain Hope]

They looked at each other and realized they were going to spend the rest of their lives alone in their narcissistic prisons with no offspring for "supply".  So then the project turns to keeping the family together forever. 

     

For me, it didn't begin until they were no longer able to entertain themselves through travel and other interests. Having grand stories to tell of trips far and wide seemed to provide sufficient supply for a time....

It's been the past 7 years, since we've been separated geographically that the love talk in letters has really come on strong. I don't think they ever dreamed I'd move away from their zone.

The project... yikes, tjr. I'm thankful that none of us was put here for the purpose of being someone's project!!


Anastasia, thanks from me, also, for this thread.

Carolyn

[dandylife]

I had the sum total of 2 incidents in my life with my N-dad where he expressed love.

1 - we were camping and me and my sister got "lost". (we went off with some boys!) But my dad thought we were lost. Hours later we showed up. He actually CRIED and hugged us and said how much he loved us and was scared. (perhaps he was relieved that now he wouldn't look like the bad parent after all? who knows if it was really love!)

2 - Years after he tried to steal money in my college fund, he called me over to the house, cried and hugged me, apologized and said he loved me.

The next day I found out he was drunk and didn't remember it at all!!!

My opinion of the answer to your question - SOMETHING might get through to them, but I think it takes an awful lot. They have so many defenses and coping mechanisms in place for every contingency. N's are people, too, but they are people with a tangled web of beliefs and coping skills developed out of necessity. I don't think THEY even know what they feel.

(obviously this thread is a trigger for me, - but hey that's good. Always good to reflect on and dig deeper.)


Dandylife

[teartracks]

Hi Anastasia,

Can Narcissists really love their children??????

Short answer.

Narcissists IMO and from my experience, harvest whatever there is to harvest from the souls of other humans (and nature) whenever it fits their need or gives them supply.   Your age, size, social standing, race, gender, religion, politics, wealth, decency - none of these will deter them.   They don't care.  Unfortunately babies, children, are powerless.  They are stuck unless someone witnesses the inequity and intervenes.  Children almost always have no out.  Children who have a nonN adult in their life who shows compassion and lets the child know that they understand is about the best a child stuck with an N parent can hope for.

tt