GOD & scripture: Why is it showing up at all on this board?

[Anastasia]

Yes, realize that some of our board members probably attend church, hear scripture and believe in God; however, what does that have to do with this board?  Trying to figure out what the members who do this are attempting to accomplish by quoting Christian messages?
Aren't most of us here attempting to understand the narcissists' motivation?
Can't we leave God and scriptures out of this message board? 
Can't we just use a level playing field here and concentrate on facts in our attempt to find answers?
If I wanted to hear the old saw, "God never gives you anything more than you can handle," half of us on this board, I'll bet, wouldn't even be here.  We would be "handling" it better.
And for those that are cramming God and scripture into their messages, did it ever occur to you that not everyone on this board is not only not a Christian--but some just plain don't think this is the time or place for it.
I've said my piece.

[Ami]

Dear Anastasia,
  I understand your feelings. Scripture is part of some of our voices and ,as such, is who we are. I guess it comes under the "heading" of annoyances to those who feel as you do.
  I am sure that there are many valuable things that you can take from the board and ignore what does not suit you. Does this make sense?                 Ami,

[Elaine1966]

Sorry if I have offended anyone when I talk about attending Church or being a Christian.  That is not my intent. I have just read so many other posts where people are freely expressing their Christian views and thought no one had an issue with it.

I am going through a really rough time and need all the warmth and support I can get and from everyone I can get it from.  This board has been one of my best support groups and has truly helped me over the past week.

Sorry again,
Elaine

[Leah]

Hi Anastasia,

I welcome your thoughts and view on this interesting subject.

There are Christians on this board who reciprocate in posting to each other with Scriptures and mention of God.  I have posted a few scriptures to Ami in her most recent bereavement and grief because I know and appreciate her as a whole person who is a fellow like minded believer.  Ami responded with a thank you posting.

Personally, I don't like anyone, anywhere, anytime, anyplace, leaping in with a scripture, or scriptures, simply just to "babble" off scriptures at me, and stamp their mark, or "get their word in" for some particular reason or purpose, so to speak.  But, that's me personally, having personally experienced "Spiritual Abuse."  Disrespectful and invalidating abuse, both verbal and emotional, wherein, one's own voice is not permitted to be heard, instead, one has to hear the "babbler" so they may feel good about their grasp of scripture, which becomes void.

Abuse and Trauma occurs to all parts of the integrity of a Whole Person;

         Relational -- Physical -- Intellectual -- Emotional -- Psyche -- Spiritual

according to several resources.

Unfortunately, what makes a Person Whole cannot be separated apart.

I feel that we each have a healing journey, and also, a life journey, that is personal and integral as a whole person.

Thank you for your question and thank you so much for the opportunity to share.

Love, Leah

[Overcomer]

There are a lot of Christians on this board but I personally will only quote scripture to those I know are believers.  However if I do not know what your beliefs are and you are going through a tough time-I will always offer a prayer for you.  Would that be acceptable to you An?

[Certain Hope]

There are a lot of Christians on this board but I personally will only quote scripture to those I know are believers.  However if I do not know what your beliefs are and you are going through a tough time-I will always offer a prayer for you.  Would that be acceptable to you An?

Hi, Anastasia,

My position is the same as what Kelly's said here. If you were to ask me to leave God and faith at the "door" to this board, I would politely refuse... and I'm thankful that Dr. Grossman has allowed even Christians to have full expression of voice here.

And just so you know - if two or more people of some other faith choose to reference their sacred texts to each other or discuss their faith, I promise to not take offense!

With love,
Carolyn

[Anastasia]

You all are very sweet, but I really hate religion being brought up in these conversations at all.  Maybe I am alone in this issue, but I feel strongly that all religious-speak be left out of this board.
However, I do get that some people enjoy and need their religious beliefs.  I just am not one of you is all.

[Certain Hope]

((((((((Anastasia))))))))) I don't give a hoot for religion, either, but it's part of the world around me wherever I go... including amidst some very religious Christians where I work.

I'm very glad that you are free to express yourself in the way you have here... and I believe that your preferences should be honored by all who are aware of them, as far as not preaching at you or directing you to Bible passages in response to your posts. As I see it, that would be downright rude, in light of your clearly expressed objections... and I would never do that.

Also, I want you to know that for myself, personally, I'm aware that I've talked a bit more than usual over the past couple days about Jesus and about matters of faith... and so I can see that from your perspective it may seem like an over abundance.
And again, just so you know... the reason for that, on my part, is that I seem to have hit a sort of spiritual lottery of sorts... lol... and I got a bit excited and yakkety about it...
but truly, I don't think that I go off on a frenzy about this stuff with anyone unless I know that they're of like-minded beliefs.

Thanks for listening!

Love,
Carolyn

[nan99]

Anastasia wrote: Trying to figure out what the members who do this are attempting to accomplish by quoting Christian messages?

Anastasia:  In answer to your question, I don't think they are particularly trying to accomplish anything -- it's just part of who they are. When someone's faith becomes an important part of their everyday lives, and when they have experienced firsthand how much their faith and the scriptures have helped them and others, it just naturally carries over into their conversations (and posts). And while sometimes posts may get a little too carried away, I think that having a variety of responses from a variety of different people helps to ensure that our individual needs for support are met -- if not by one person and their style of responding, then from someone else.

[Gaining Strength]

Glad you brought this up Anastasia.  It is a thought provoking topic. 

A week or so ago Dr. Grossman mentioned in a tongue in cheek sort of way that as an agnostic he might be one person the majority would ban from this board.   That comment really touched me, I thought it as particularly kind of him to allow all the profession of religion.  I know it is very important to many here but I am also aware that it is offensive to some. 

I find my own perspective described by Leah and Lollie's posts.  But I am also mindful of many here who are not interested in the scripture quoting.  I think I would use my religious thougths and bible stuff in my own posts about my own experience and understanding but not to offer them to others - though I cannot say if I have followed this line in the past.

Sometimes scripture or other philosophies can really make a point eloquently and succinctly.  But I don't like to be preached to nor have scripture pushed at me as an answer to my struggles - especially in a forum like this that does not adhere to any religion.

Thanks for your thought provoking thread. - Gaining Strength

[Sela]

Hi Anastasia,

I wonder if this might be a way of looking at it?

If a bunch of people here had a favorite cook book that they had all read and loved to quote from, would you want to stop them from doing that?  Would it really be a big deal?

I can see how it might be irritating because it's not "NDP" topic but truly.....what does it have to do with you?  I understand that you don't agree and are not interested but consider.....do you react the same way about all ideas you disagree with or are not interested in?   Why is this so special to you/what does it trigger? 

Just thought it might help to consider the next quote you receive rather like a recipe (one you're not drawn to try) and give it the same weight/power/whatnot (as you would a recipe you're not interested in trying).

Also, is there a certain intention you sense behind this talk that irks you?  Is it possible that you might be misreading the intention?

One last.......if someone feels the need to use their voice/express their emotions about any topic (including religious stuff), because they feel it helps them survive whatever they are experiencing, or have experienced, or even to celebrate survival, or explain it, etc, does it really make sense to you to say:  "Don't talk about that here."

All meant to help and if it doesn't........kick it to the curb.

Sela 

[mudpuppy]

And for those that are cramming God and scripture into their messages, did it ever occur to you that not everyone on this board is not only not a Christian--but some just plain don't think this is the time or place for it.

It has certainly occurred to me as several people have made the same observation previously.
However I am an open minded kind of guy. I refuse to be offended that some posters here steadfastly and repeatedly refuse to cram God and scripture into their messages.

mud

[teartracks]

Hi Anastasia,

Would reading entrails appeal to you?

Here's my point.  Had you lived in ancient times with hunters and gatherers you would have experienced the practice of religion.  You probably would have been part of a small tribe and it would not have been easy for you to remove yourslf from 'religion' then either.  The Internet is very young and doesn't seem to be much at issue or at the root in the general theme of your complaint.  So zoom forward to the twenty first century.  Now the tribes are larger and very mobile for the most part.  Folk with different belief systems rub shoulders all the time.  Shamanism, Hinduism, Atheism, Muslim, Judaism, Christianity, Budhhism, and even those professing to have no religion which in my mind becomes one's religion and on and on. 

Dear girl, I think you might be wise to get used to it...

tt

[Hopalong]

TT recently posted to me the scripture about loving the Lord your God with all your might.  I am grateful and moved by her love and support. Thanks, (((((TT)))))). I love you!

Still ... I am agnostic. I have gone to some lengths in my 2+ years here to explain what that is (and isn't) and have also described my own aversion to dogma and my beliefs about texts (books, writing, scripture) not being sacred or divine (though they can inspire ultimate human goodness...and evil). Odd as it may seem, that IS a spiritual stance. I've also talked about my issues with the paternalism in religious language and assumptions.

I'm not offended TT, and forgive me for using your particular well-intentioned post as an example...I count on yoru forgiveness.

But just as an example of how it can sometimes feel to me, and perhaps to other non-Christians here, exhorting me to "love the Lord my God" is just about the opposite of how I perceive what my spiritual life is about.

It's hard to convey, but I'd like to try: my agnosticism is as precious to me, as belief is to other believers. It is deeply held.

It's complex, how people apply their reason and/or their faith. I think it's important not to take offense and I really try not to. I do try to receive the love I know is intended (as I did in this instance, TT...).

But just in case this helps anyone understand why sometimes the fountains of religious references are hard to take, for some people.

I don't know what the answer is, as I wouldn't want to muzzle anyone. And I appreciate the sensitivity that most folks show when we do grapple with our differences of all sorts. I know it'll be no less in this case, in this good community.

With love,
Hops

[teartracks]

Hi Hops,

I love you too Agnostic or any other religion you might adopt.

I especially respect those whose spiritual beliefs are passionate.  As a mature Christian, I haven't run into a single person of a different faith that I couldn't converse with freely with no intent to proselitize or hog the conversation.  I think it is interesting to be with people of different faiths, especially those who are well versed on what they believe.  They don't make me feel contaminated by speaking about what they believe.  And I hope I don't make them feel contaminated by mentioning my own.  As I said to DailyMail, as with most, perhaps all religions, it is an elective.  You can't 'catch' religion from anyone in that sense.  It's not a contagious disease.  You can't get it by rubbing shoulders with those of different faiths.  They can't bestow it on you in passing.  You don't get religion by breathing in droplets from the air. Or needles or exchanging body fluids.


But just as an example of how it can sometimes feel to me, and perhaps to other non-Christians here, exhorting me to "love the Lord my God" is just about the opposite of how I perceive what my spiritual life is about.

It's hard to convey, but I'd like to try: my agnosticism is as precious to me, as belief is to other believers. It is deeply held.

Hops, it was the bold black part of that verse that I was trying to tie into what you said  about how when you are compassionate to yourself your Nspots seem to disappear.  That part was for you.  Quoting the entire verse was for my Christian buds here.  I didn't want them to be offended that I cherry picked the verse.  Probably I should not have been concerned with that.  I should have been more clear with you.

It's complex, how people apply their reason and/or their faith. I think it's important not to take offense and I really try not to. I do try to receive the love I know is intended (as I did in this instance, TT...).

You are a good sport Hops.  I can only speak for myself, but If anyone jumped  you here about your Agnostisism, I think they would have a good fight on their hands.

Clarifying my post to Anastasia a little more if I may.  It is not pragmatic to take the stance she holds.  What I said to her is true in the big picture.  It's just not practical trying to separate the sheep from the goats from the Elk, the deer.  The earth is far too homoginized.  Place yourself in any large concentration of people holding strongly to a religion and if you don't have at least a conversationalist knowledge of that religion, it will seem as in you face (most likely) as any other religion.

Anastasia can harp on religion, Christianity all she wants, and she can do it here for all I care.  The thing is that if Christianity gets pushed out, another religion will ooze back in like honey poured over Swiss Cheese. 

Edit in:  Hops no forgiveness necessary from my side.  I love you and admire you.  I think you feel the same way about me, but just in case, please forgive me for overstepping your comfort zone with what I say, Biblical or otherwise.    

tt