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Bi-sexuality

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Onyx:
Bunny

I'm saying this: is it possible that women have been responding over the milleniums, AD, to stereotypes set down by the christian faith. Have they been shackled into a way of behaving as set out in the 'good book' and strangely enough..... by men! It's not just a question of sexuality the more I think about it. It's more to do with choice like you girls never really had before. Who you sleep with, what sex and how many.....these things were so surpressed by society not so many years ago. Not anymore!

I think that there is a direct correlation between the demise of the christian faith and the growth in female freedom to explore over the past 50 years. How many women had, just like Oscar Wilde, to be married even though they knew inside this was wrong for them. How many men and women have had to 'fake it' in a relationship/marriage in order to lead a life free from religious abuse over the centuries?

We appear to be returning to our Pagan ways, although in a more modern sense! Men are driven by the need to have sex, same then as now, no difference! Women have evolved to a point in time were by they do not need a man so much as they used to, except for the obvious! Women way back when had sex more so because they were commanded to or it was necessary for procreation rather than pleasure. They don't have to now, in fact, they can chose like never before, who with and how many!

Marriage was a religious tool. People married in the eyes of Goddo and the church! Now the church is primarilly used for ceremonial reasons only. Things like weddings, christenings and funerals...etc! Women don't have to lie anymore about there feelings. Life today is much more accepting of sexual issues and men are having to adapt...simple as!

Freud was at the very outset of cognitive behaviour therapy. He is allowed to be wrong on points because he was the first. We spend sooo much effort trying to understand why our partner was such a bastard/bitch to us, when maybe what we've been doing with this person is wrong for us, but we can't accept this, let alone see it! Man and women together as set down in the bible and various other doctrines is in time to come, going to be fully debunked...and rightly so!

If we for one moment look for example at the Muslim faith, we are looking at women as they are today, at least 4 centuries ago! Yes the Muslim faith has structure and family values, but how much are women having to bend to the whim of there male driven faiths? It's backward! How many Muslim women are suffering....not because they're lesbian or bi, but because they're having to conform to a faith that stifles their growth and freedoms.  

I was programmed by the Catholic faith as a boy in Ireland. I was brainwashed by these people at the insistance of my mother. She'd been programmed to have as many children as possible, go to church every day, cook, clean, skivy and bonk when required. She didn't have an identity, she just conformed to the norms then! Life is soo different now, no doubt she would have been happier in our time is she was still alive.

Which leads me once again to my points: How many women living today do so at the beheist of others demands/expectations rather than their own! How many women are struggling with how others have been programmed and therefore, what effect these people having on their lives. In staying in a relationship whilst possibly unhappy, aren't we best to accept that the arguments and mental torture is perhaps because we're not free in our own minds to live as we wish!

So what if a girl swings both ways....isn't this probably what happened many many years ago.

Onyx

PS. :lol: Although I was in the Navy and locked up with men in submarines for months on end, I never once was confused or doubted who I am  :o  Women are yummy as far as I'm concerned, just best not to live with them 24/7  8)

Anonymous:

--- Quote from: Onyx ---Which leads me once again to my points: How many women living today do so at the beheist of others demands/expectations rather than their own! How many women are struggling with how others have been programmed and therefore, what effect these people having on their lives. In staying in a relationship whilst possibly unhappy, aren't we best to accept that the arguments and mental torture is perhaps because we're not free in our own minds to live as we wish!
--- End quote ---


I think both men AND women live according to some earlier programming. I don't think it has much to do with sociological factors. It's about the internal world, the unconscious, which was Freud's revolutionary revelation to the world. If one is in a crappy marriage, it is not because of the Catholic church, paganism, the demise of Christian values or whatever. It's about one's own internal world that hasn't yet been questioned. The unexamined internal world is making the poor choices and denial.


my 2c,

bunny

Anonymous:
I  am bisexual and transgender and a  feline.
I'm not promiscous at all. In fact my partner and I are pretty asexual,he is Bi too.
All my life I have not been overt sexually.

I like people,I fall in love with who people are in a total way, and could care less which type of plumbing they posess.Giving pleasure together does not require a certain matched or unmatched set of genetalia alone sex is more in the mind than in the body if it is done in love...Love  includes adffectionate  touch,emotional tenderness,exploration ,sharing, and sex it's just one aspect of a relationship among many.

Bi women the ones I have been with  are not drooling  sex hounds.They are Bi and out and the gays are made discomfited that they like men too and the hets tweak because men like to think women need them for something..when it's the males who cannot get over themselves.. but to me the issues about Bi's are  more societies hang ups than problems with Bis themselves .As for the marriage  stuuff women were once raised to get married,onbce married they became male chattel.Ebven her  kids were owned by the "head of the household"(ever why fundies hate gays and get upset over abortion and claim it destroys society? It is because it frees women from  cultural male domination.
It was once totally acceptable  for a husband to disapline a wife with his fists.She could not run to police or do anything against her husband.She was a punching bag,and abuse by males  in a marriage t was seen as normal or even nessary to keep the woman chaste,dutiful and obedient..It was seen as a male duty to keep the household under his control.
The origin of marriage is a legacy  of bondage and abuse.Family the word itself once meant a band of slaves.I myself think marriage is crazy.A relationship can be long term and committed but the idea of the state sanctioning a relationship is a little intrusiuve and sick it smacks of eugenics.Marriage carries societies baggage into a relationship along with  the past of female bondage, domination, patriarchy and slavery.
I found when I divorced my husband(for financial reasons) Our ability to relate to each other as equal partners  improved. We are still very close we just are not bound by a law or by a belief in a destructive  social fantasy imposed upon people from and early age  that is painted up as benign that benifiets the interests of control freak men and rich people who get off on egineering culture more than it helps poor people empower themselves and thier communities..

phoenix:
bye

Nic:
Hi Onyx and all!
Interesting to see such a variety of opinions and comments on sexuality.  I once saw an older woman rant how "sex is the elixir of life!"..it's obviously very central to everyone in one way or another as evidenced by the posts here.
Onyx, I find it amusing how you had to point out you were in the navy and bunked with men all the time and that you never questionned yourself about your identity.  Amusing because it's so supremely hetero! almost as if you just had to say it because maybe we could have gotten the impression that you were thinking homo! *laughing nicely*
Listen, whether man or woman, it is very well documented how we all have homo dreams or thoughts..and really that's healthy.  One could say closet healthy. :lol:
I sure wish I knew then what I know now...cultural and religious teaching/socialization play on us for years before we act on what we're afraid of.  At least that's how it was for me.  In a dysfunctional family and dare I say in a "proper" family where sex is/was never discussed ( other than via someone elses' joke! :roll: ) it's often difficult to feel comfortable with something so personal.
And sex is a very private thing isn't it?  But as it has moved more and more into the public realm, there has been an invasion of the personal sphere where desire has become need, where love and lust have drifted apart into two very specific variables, one alienated from the other.  No doubt causing a rift and ultimately confusion.
The word perversion comes to mind..and we all have our definitions of that.
One is the way one is.  What has become of "do what comes naturally.."  What comes naturally to me might not be what comes naturally to you.  i had a bi girlfriend once who explained to me in the early eighties how lesbianism was a political choice for women..a long feminist and radical discourse which at the time seemed interesting and which now smacks of BS to me.
As the song says: "Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight. "  I've learned over the years how much I have to choose my battles. I am me before I am a culture.
I think also, having grown up in a very dysfunctional N family, i've had to constantly question everything i did in order to please or fulfill the whims and wishes of very insecure Ns.  This hyper-selfintrospectivity ( new word hahaha like it more than introspection!) has proven to be a minus in my life.  I'm discovering myself and more and more allowing myself to give in to who I really am.  A friend told me recently how that was akin to shedding the layers of false selves i've manufactured as a result of being an ACON.
It's a fascinating and terrifying at times experience this living thing! :lol:  but with age i'm growing so incredibly weary of always being scared.  Scared to do/say/be the "wrong" thing!  And to think that was knocked into me ( an artificial reflex if you will) by two people who were only projecting, not their values, but their fears and hang-ups on me.  The blind leading the blind..shameful really!
In my parents' words: "We've always accepted your choice.." scribbled by my mother on a note.  They love my "C", everybody does..however coming from them it's not so much acceptance as a dismissal, or even Ok Nic..that's where we've gotcha!.
 My N mother is always more interested in exploiting the people she "loves", forever finding allies..I actually saw her dragging "C" into a room to better involve him in HER life rather than inviting him( in full view )to share it to an acceptable degree.  In the past I would tell her whenever i saw her pull this kind of stunt..that resulted in her labelling me "jealous".
And we call that emotional incest..again the sexual dimension..a deeper more subtle aspect of sexuality.
Nice talking to you
Nic :)

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