Hurting and shame -- N saint strikes again, now I see psychopath saint

[Ami]

Dear Lise,
 I am glad  this happened to me today, so we can get through it ,together.We can help each other.I am at the bottom , too, so I can "feel" what you are going through, NOT just "know" it, intellectually.It was not a coincidence, Lise. I feel horrible ,too.As I feel this pain and express it, I see that it was NOT ours ,but the people who put it on us.We get sucked in b/c we have the shame within us ,at such a profound level.. It is a chance to heal. The Janet thread taught me how to fight with strength and dignity. I have used that in real life. We will use these lessons, Lise.
  Love , Ami


PS Jesus had righteous anger. There is nothing wrong with our being angry at being violated. S/times people try to "walk in other people's shoes" too much.Sometimes, it is healthy to take care of ourselves and use our strength to fight back(verbally). That is health(IMO)

[Ami]

You hurt me very,very deeply today. I have had a stomach ache all day and feel really discouraged and in despair. Don't you get any of that?                                                             Ami

[Gabben]

Dear Izzy,

Your behavior recently on this board had been out-of-hand.  There seems to be a great deal of bullying coming from you towards Ami.

Your behavior is critical and attacking of Ami.

Perhaps some of your anger is coming up and your pain is coming up?

Whenever we start pointing fingers and focusing on others we are basically trying to tell the world the story of our pain.

Were you criticized and ridiculed when you were a child? Where you ignored when you were a child......if so.....how dare they....YOU Izzy deserve better.....you never deserved to be ignored!!!!

Cry...hurt, pound your fists on the table in anger (((((IZZY))))) BUT....please don't pound Ami anymore....we both care about you.

[Ami]

I wish I could say THAT to your N Saint,Lise. Give me her number and *I* will. I mean it.           Love   Ami

[Ami]

You know ,Lise. There is a time for compassion AND a time when a person has to be responsible  for WHAT comes out of their mouth. I think that we GET abused again and again b/c we do not stand up and call abuse what it is . The person who DOES it is responsible for rectifying it--NOT US!                Ami



 Izzy---I cannot follow your thinking, so I will disengage .

[Ami]

I appreciate Lise helping me ,Izzy. I could use help, actually.                         Ami

[Ami]

Izzy,
 I am astounded at how you act and THEN try to abdicate responsibility for it. I really, really am.
 I don't "GET IT" and hope I never do!


Izzy --I do not want to engage with you in PM's.

[Ami]

Dear Lise,'
  I am here to continue the discussion on shame ,if you want to. You may need to keep talking.             Love    Ami

[debkor]

Iz,

Ami,
Can you not understand and fill your soul with the fact that you are totally separate from your mother and father? You are you! You did NOT have tio always compare yourself to your mother (the real problem you have)

Put thoughts of her out of your mind. Think only of yourself (that is not selfish) and put yourself together as you really are! You can figure that out by understanding YOUR beliefs and YOUR goals, and YOUR actions, Make a point to dwell on YOU, and do not even talk to your mother for a week. (or more).  See how you feel. Do your cleaning, shopping, cooking, posts, doggie work, without ONE thought of whether or not your mother would approve.....................

As long as YOU approve of what you do, you are making millions of miles of headway!!

xx
Izzy

I had done this.  I had been so caught up in exh I forgot who I was.  I dwelled on him and his problems which held me back from working on my own and being a separate person.   It was so hard to separate and took lots of work but it worked.

Love
Deb

[Gabben]

I wish I could say THAT to your N Saint,Lise. Give me her number and *I* will. I mean it.           Love   Ami

Ami -- she would not get it. She has zero remorse and zero guilt (no conscious)....it would be pointless, she would only see you has attacking her.

But thank you for saying that. That is the first time this entire year that anyone has been willing to stand up for me.

Lise

[Gabben]

Did you ever hear of someone so hysterical that s/he had to be slapped in the face (out of concern) to bring back reality?

Izzy -- don't you think you have slapped Ami in the face enough?

[Ami]

Dear Lise,
 I am sorry you feel so alone and unprotected. I wish I could do something. Ann talks about our being dishonored. You are expressing the feeling of being dishonored and unprotected. We don't protect ourselves enough b/c we were denuded of that self protective instinct. I think that we need to be good and angry when we are dishonored NOT turn it on ourselves. . I think that people who follow the Bible can MISINTERPRET  the Bible and take rotten treatment when they should FIGHT, NOT worry about how the other person is doing. I think that is a big part of our problem, Lise--displaced anger.
 I wish I could do s/thing concrete to help you.
 Thank you for your kind words .         Love    Ami

[Ami]

Izzy,
 You can see Lise is hurting. Why don't you just leave her alone? I think she is telling you this!

[Gabben]

Dear Lise,'
  I am here to continue the discussion on shame ,if you want to. You may need to keep talking.             Love    Ami

Ami --I am here, barely. I need to be away for awhile. I can barely breath or talk right now.

I'll get back to you.

[Ami]

I am here,by phone or PM, Lise     Love   Ami