Want to see an email from an N mom...

[Gabben]

Here is an example of an typical email from my Nmom.

I do love her and I understand her way of hurting and thinking mostly because of the trauma I have been through with Nsaint this past year as well as my own shame at coming to terms with my own behavioral issues. The last thing that I would ever want to do to her is humiliate her despite the fact that that is exactly what she had done to me most of my life. I'm glad this board is anonymous. I show this but for the sake of gaining better perspective by gaining others views and experiences:


What I said to my mom that set her off was "when you start making paranoid assumptions it pushes me farther away."


"Once again you have spoken to me as if I am some sick paranoid person that  has nothing more in her life to play mind games with her adult? children??? and has no healthy normal motherly reason to be concerned about her daughter RELATION TO HER. Which has deteriorated to shallow telephone messages, small talk only asking questions about "How's xxxxxxx?" and not much else.  This is a very very shallow relationship which for "quote" your need to keep  ON going this way and keep insulting me with your sarcastic remarks inferring that you think your mother is so sick that she thinks that the World is out to get HER. Frankly I don't care to know what is so private in your life that makes you the way you  are. Because what ever it is that is in your mind and heart that is so private that you dare not share it with your mother because you think I want to invade your privacy and mind etc. I feel very very sorry for  you.  Get a life! I have a life too! My years raising you are over! What ever you think you hold so private in your mind and heart, I think is really in a much lower darker part of your body.These years of my life are not going to be waisted on trying to interfere with adult children's minds or life. SO FAR I HAVE STAYED AWAY!! BY MY CHOICE TOO! REMEMBER WE ASKED YOU NOT TO RETURN TO OUR HOME AND WE HAVE NOT FELT GOOD ABOUT HAVING YOU RETURN. YOUR LETTER HAS THE SAME KNIFE CUTTING WORDS AND UGLINESS THAT I EXPERIENCED WITH YOU 2-3 YEARS AGO. I ONLY FEEL SAD THAT YOU HAVE NOT GROWN UP MUCH EMOTIONALLY AND SPIRITUALLY TOO.  THIS LETTER SHOWS IT.  I GIVE UP TRYING TO REACH OUT TO HAVE TEA  AND VISIT EVEN FOR AN HOUR WITH YOU WHILE PASSING THOUGH XX.  I DON'T WANT TO SPOIL A GOOD TRIP. TAKE CARE AND YOU ARE IN MY PRAYERS ALWAYS."

"LOVE, MOTHER"

[Iphi]

Well that is about the ultimate mixed message there could be.  There's so much pushing and pulling in that email that even as a bystander I feel whiplash.  I'm sorry, Lise.

[gratitude28]

May I say that I understand exactly why you crawled into the bottle???? And major kudos for turing your life around and becoming the stable, kind, caring person you are.

Oh, Lise, there is no dealing with a person who is not sane. Your mother does not seem to be firing on all cylinders. It must feel awul to have your mother be this way.

You know, sometimes I wish my mother was overtly insane, so that I would have some 'proof.' She is so subtle. I guess the only advantage for you is that you can be positive that is not a kind and caring letter from a parent to a child. There is no 'reading between the lines.' The letter shouts loudly that she does not have rational tought processes.

(((((((((((((((((((((((Lise))))))))))))))))))))))

Love, Beth

[Gabben]

Thanks Beth,

Your words literally got me flying up out of my chair and running to the bathroom with those deep stomach tears.

That release felt good.

Sometimes we need the perspective of others to help us see how much pain we have been through so that we can embrace it and move on from it with a healthier perspective.

Despite my mom's irrationality -- I love her. Don't ask me why...sure actions and behavior are not sound but she is a person, who suffers and deserves dignity. I felt guilty for even putting this up here. I have been my mom's mom for so long...protecting her, standing up for her, making excuses for her. My brother and sister got tired of me and my sympathetic stance towards my mom.

My mom is not a sociopath...she has remorse and guilt. She is human. She knows on some level that she suffers this way. That is why I feel so sorry for her.

But the thing that N's love is pity....I know that a great deal of what my mom does is to either evoke pity or to terrorize.

In a week or so she will call me or send me an email as if nothing happened. It has been this way my entire life.

I am reflecting on when I was a sweet little first grader and how I just wanted some affection so I would linger near my mom in the kitchen, too afraid to ask her directly and not able to reach out to her, I would dilly around her waiting, hoping that she would read my mind and just give me a hug...Nada, I was so hungry for love. Thank heavens that we had cats.


I can't stop crying, one day I will stop and my smile will come back. I just hope that I have not deteriorated to much.
Lise

[Gaining Strength]

Do you think BPD cou;d be part of what is going on w/ her?
Just looking at the last 2 sentences is so shocking.  How could she not see the disparity of those two statements?  Nevermind theastonishing demand that you open up to her.  Just the very fact that she demands it is proof that it would not be safe.  She cannot see that such intimacy is a treasure to be valued and held sacred.  She clearly feels thecutting pain of rejection by not being included in your inner sanctum.  It seems that it is this pain that she is acting out of, unable to moderatew hewr own behavior in order to win thr prized entry and so she stands at the door hurling rotten vegetable word bombs as though they would win her entry, not unlike a jilted lover, hopeless, reduced to rage.

I'm glad you have a place you can share that.  I am sorry for you and me and all the others that we don't have support and encouragement - much less love and a loving relationship with our mothers. 

Yesterday I learned that my mother endlessly bad mouths me when I am not present and when I am she takes the very thing that she belittles me to others about and praises me to my face.  Would it be better if she said the same things to my face - is there really any difference.  I so wanted to be able to call her and tell her about my progress - to share it with someone, anyone who cares.  But there is the rub, isn't it?

[Overcomer]

Boy, Lise, I know this is exactly what my mom is thinking but would never say those awful words.  But she infers them.  I think my mom is so afraid that I will blow up at her that she is very careful how she puts things - BUT she says it anyway......in HER way.

She says things like, "afterall, THEY are in church every Wednesday...."  (meaning you are not, Kelly)

Or (for sure in front of someone else) "Kelly doesn't have time for us anymore...."  Or "we sure miss Kelly at church, don't we?"  Or "we are woefully short around here!"  Oh, it's woeful is it?

These parents - they are CRAZYMAKING!

[Ami]

Oh My Goodness, Lise. The sickness is so palpable. I have been  thinking of the difference between my aunt and my M. It is the difference between Heaven and Hell.
 The people who have a good mother live in one universe and the people who get your type of letter(myself included, of course)live in another.
 It is pitiful ,horrible ,inhuman,  and  is beyond words. 
 I am so,so so sorry,Lise. I feel so angry at her for doing this and EVERYTHING else to you.       Ami



((((((((((Lise))))))))))))

[Certain Hope]

          

I agree with Beth, Lise... and with GS, too. My mother's sister was like this... not so extreme, but I recognize the attitude and the deep hatred.
She's terrified of you, Lise. She thinks you've got the goods on her and wants you to think that the darkness belongs to you.
I cannot imagine a more fitting situation in which no contact would be appropriate than with this woman.
Really.

Love and hugs,
Carolyn

[Iphi]

Despite my mom's irrationality -- I love her. Don't ask me why...sure actions and behavior are not sound but she is a person, who suffers and deserves dignity. I felt guilty for even putting this up here. I have been my mom's mom for so long...protecting her, standing up for her, making excuses for her. My brother and sister got tired of me and my sympathetic stance towards my mom.

I am reflecting on when I was a sweet little first grader and how I just wanted some affection so I would linger near my mom in the kitchen, too afraid to ask her directly and not able to reach out to her, I would dilly around her waiting, hoping that she would read my mind and just give me a hug...Nada, I was so hungry for love. Thank heavens that we had cats.

Dear Lise - if only your mom could receive what you have for her - unconditional love.  You have a great and huge heart and it works wonderfully well.  To read of your love for her, and read her email - such a broken person - moves me in appreciation of your profound gifts and suffering. 

Also I am moved by your memories of mute desire for love and affection, day to day.  I send you hugs.

[dandylife]

Gabben (Lise),

Thank you so much for posting this. I think the best way to learn about N and abusive situations is to see and hear and experience what happened. During the worst parts of my experiences, I journaled. I wrote down EXACTLY (what I remembered) about what happened and then I wrote down specifically what and where each phrase and projection and attempt to gaslight WAS. I revisited these things many times so as not to ever forget.

You are obviously an empathetic person, Lise. That is probably why your Mom targeted you as a receiver of her abuse. Because you "shallow out" on her (only talk about the weather, etc.) she perceives this and is "hurt" by it. Probably more an ego wound for her. I think the only way for you to move forward and actually have progress here is to find your strong and certain voice and say something such as, "Mom when you said X, that was hurtful to me. There was a time when I let that kind of thing go, but not anymore. If people aren't respectful to me, I don't pursue a relationship with them. Your choice. I love you and would love to have you in my life."

THEN you have spoken your boundary and she can choose to be the same, or change.

Good luck, you seem a lovely person.

Dandylife

[Gabben]

Despite my mom's irrationality -- I love her. Don't ask me why...sure actions and behavior are not sound but she is a person, who suffers and deserves dignity. I felt guilty for even putting this up here. I have been my mom's mom for so long...protecting her, standing up for her, making excuses for her. My brother and sister got tired of me and my sympathetic stance towards my mom.

I am reflecting on when I was a sweet little first grader and how I just wanted some affection so I would linger near my mom in the kitchen, too afraid to ask her directly and not able to reach out to her, I would dilly around her waiting, hoping that she would read my mind and just give me a hug...Nada, I was so hungry for love. Thank heavens that we had cats.

Dear Lise - if only your mom could receive what you have for her - unconditional love.  You have a great and huge heart and it works wonderfully well.  To read of your love for her, and read her email - such a broken person - moves me in appreciation of your profound gifts and suffering. 

Also I am moved by your memories of mute desire for love and affection, day to day.  I send you hugs.

Dear Iphi,

I was touched this morning when I read this. It seems that those of us who have big hearts, like yourself too, go through life more unacknowledged...perhaps that is why God gave us big hearts so that we could handle the suffering. I always think that God only gives each of us what we can handle.

Thank you so much for your warmth and vision -- that helped me more than I can express.

Lise

[Gabben]

Gabben (Lise),

Thank you so much for posting this. I think the best way to learn about N and abusive situations is to see and hear and experience what happened. During the worst parts of my experiences, I journaled. I wrote down EXACTLY (what I remembered) about what happened and then I wrote down specifically what and where each phrase and projection and attempt to gaslight WAS. I revisited these things many times so as not to ever forget.

You are obviously an empathetic person, Lise. That is probably why your Mom targeted you as a receiver of her abuse. Because you "shallow out" on her (only talk about the weather, etc.) she perceives this and is "hurt" by it. Probably more an ego wound for her. I think the only way for you to move forward and actually have progress here is to find your strong and certain voice and say something such as, "Mom when you said X, that was hurtful to me. There was a time when I let that kind of thing go, but not anymore. If people aren't respectful to me, I don't pursue a relationship with them. Your choice. I love you and would love to have you in my life."

THEN you have spoken your boundary and she can choose to be the same, or change.

Good luck, you seem a lovely person.

Dandylife

Dear Dandylife,

Your ideas here are very helpful. I forget that instead of my being reactive I can use the situation with my mom to practice being more gentle...now that's and idea!

Perhaps my mom would respond with less hatred if I said something along the lines of what you said such as "I love you mom and would love to have you in my life but I want to be respected, it hurts when I hear assumptions and ideas that do not sound like reality for me."

No doubt, I have tried this stuff in the past, but any form of direct honesty, no matter how gently put with her, sets her off.  She considers it condensending to her.

But I'll keep trying. I have been going at it for almost 40 years now and I have not really given up yet so what the heck!

Thanks for your perspecitive, it was right on!

Lise

[Izzy_*now*]

Dear Gabben,

In my situation, it was different, but then my D and I are different from you and your mother.

When my D pointed out, with anger, a certain thing...incident...words...lack of words...whatever...my guilt took hold and I wondered why I had done that. I searched inside and then responded with my truth, whatever it was. Owning my behaviour throughout our lives was the key, even though she is a grown woman of almost 44...yet she is the 'child' in the story.

Any chance at all that your mother will see/own her past behaviour?

Good Luck
Izzy

[dandylife]

Lise,

You wrote, "...I can use the situation with my mom to practice being more gentle...now that's and idea!"

You are a gentle spirit, aren't you? Yes, a great reminder that you can be assertive without being aggressive.

I work in the "sales" field and so "influence" and "selling" are big daily things for me. There is a sales guru named Herb Cohen and his big thing was having the attitude of, "I care - but not that much!" really increased his ability to influence others. In other words, let them know you're willing to walk away, although you would rather stay - but it's up to them. You know?

This is great boundary practice.

Whether a person is your mom or not does not give them an excuse to be bad to you. Although, every mom needs a little leeway here and there, I know I do!

And - your mom does at least seem to TRY to express herself - however ineffectuall and hurtful she is. She's letting you know she wants IN - to your head and your heart. I don't know her intentions, but she wants to be closer to you and doesn't want to be shut out. That much is clear. But everyone should know that it is a privilige to be inside the head of someone as caring and loving as you. Unless they are respectful and grateful and caring in return, keep that door LATCHED!

Dandylife

[Hopalong]

What ever you think you hold so private in your mind and heart, I think is really in a much lower darker part of your body.

That is a very invasive, boundary-bashing, ugly, disrespectful and shaming thing to say to your child.

[my inner doors slam against this]

Do you think she was also reacting to being labeled, Lise? You did call her "paranoid".

Even if she was, it was an over-the-top over-reaction. Whew, what payback. That's an annihilating level of reaction...and reminds me very much of How Dare You.

(You were probably right in saying "paranoid assumptions". She couldn't handle that though and boy would you be punished.)

Gosh. I hope you can let go of her...and become your own mature mother. She ain't it and I think she can't ever be.

My life became a lot less painful when I recognized that my mother was the child.

love
Hops