Time to Plumb the Depths Again

[Juno]

This is where I am stuck right now, trying to life myself out of the darkness and feeling kicked back down.  That kicked back down is old stuff.  I pray that I can get some clearer perspective on this so that I can move past this.

Also, I wanted to say that I think you do see things very clearly.  Perhaps what is hard to deal with is that this even exists.  It was so wrong and yet, there it is.

And I am operating under the same main idea as you--that when the childhood stuff is healed from, then the other stuff will be relatively easy.  I do get discouraged.  Sometimes it seems hopeless.  Sometimes I don't want to deal with it.  But then I get that feeling inside.  Restless, stopped up, and when I've had enough of THAT, then it is time to dig into something else.  This is very, very hard work isn't it?  I don't know very many other people in real life who would even consider doing things this way.

While you are busy today, things will probably be percolating in the back of your mind.  Way in the back probably!  Sometimes that's what dreams are for.  There are times when I will dream every night about things that the back of my mind has been working on.  There are times when the dreams are frustrating because when I wake up I will realize that I handled the problem in the dream the same dumb way I handle things awake.  But I never used to even realize that before.  At least the pathway is open.  Dreamtime is very useful for problem solving or at least practice in recognizing problems.

[James]

Shame Slayer.......Over the last 14 months or so i have had 4-5 dreams that were very powerful. These were strong and clear and I knew exactly what they were telling me. Each one of these, I recognize now, were at the beginning of a new "period" in my life and their content eventually was worked out in my consciousness and did come true. Then another one would come, in the same way, and the same thing happened with them. I pay attention to dreams now, especially powerful ones. I find it amazing how in a dream I can see with clarity where I need to go and without "thinking", instinctively I follow, like it was the most natural thing in the world and it is because it is me guiding me.......Love, James

[sKePTiKal]

SS:

The golden nugget for me... the absolute center of the shame for me:

is the reality that I wasn't important enough TO my parents for them to BE decent parents for me...

to love me for who I am without making me an extension or surrogate for my mother's frustrated dreams...
to love me for how I am like my father - in talents and sociability (it's NOT a sin to like people, mom...and it's not dangerous, either)
to love me and acknowledge that I was emotionally sensitive; vulnerable to a high degree to people's teasing and slights...


... especially when it came from my parents.


I am still dealing with feeling shame about this vulnerable side of my self, too. Shame that assigns fault, blame & responsibility for my parents deficits in parenting - that assigns the shame/blame to me. I am free-er than I was... I am able to see this being repeated as an unconscious script with the same roles in my current life. Yes, it continues UNTIL you change things...

YES, trying to change myself "pokes" a stick in the eye of these old beliefs, emotions and behaviors. The old self... the unconscious side of the self... and then the resistance is there in a flash: bring all the old belittling (this time self-belittling) habits right along with it. Because that's what it knows worked to defend me; to keep me safe; to hold the real "me" in waiting for some magical place & time where my real parents would "claim" me. (I sobbed uncontrollably at the end of the movie, Pan's Labryinth, when the girl who dies finds her "rightful place" with her mother & father...)

For me, SS, the way OUT of this is in parenting my self - validating my emotional, vulnerable self; recognizing my need for safety & acceptance FROM even my SELF... to not continue the abusive, neglectful, abandoning behaviors that I internalized & mimicked; behaviors I learned from my parents - that stuck to me like a BURR that I could never find; could never remove and hurt, itched and irritated me.

The removal process involves reliving that whole year... all those emotions... (and oddly, life events are recurring too)... and doing things very, very differently. Treating my self differently. Behaving differently. Allowing the vulnerability. Not always being the first to volunteer to sacrifice my SELF completely, just to make everything "all right"...

Does this help point out the path to the way out for you or is this too much "me"? My own trip?

[Certain Hope]

((((((((()))))))))  I am with you, alongside you in this, dear SS. I hear your heart and am willing to continue hearing.

Especially.... often I still find that whatever I accomplish feels like not "enough". Then I know it's time to refocus my eyes, because that old standard didn't fit then and it sure doesn't apply now.
Also, we recently had a guest in our home who is quite well-to-do and... I did great through the visit, but in the aftermath was a mini shame dump, full of "should haves". Still rebuking those to smithereens.

And I've got to say that I can really relate to all that Amber's shared in her last post.... especially this: 
to love me for who I am without making me an extension or surrogate for my mother's frustrated dreams...
to love me for how I am like my father - in talents and sociability (it's NOT a sin to like people, mom...and it's not dangerous, either)to love me and acknowledge that I was emotionally sensitive; vulnerable to a high degree to people's teasing and slights...

GS, you deserve to have ups and downs... everyone does. My own can get pretty messy, still... but it also gets easier and smoother to remember that I will come out the other side of that tunnel. And so will you. There is no way you'll get stuck there... I just know it.

Love to you,
Carolyn

[sKePTiKal]

SS:

Reading your thread this morning, got me thinking about double binds... the damned if you do, damned if you don't; no-win situations. The way you describe your father setting impossible goals - then denying the resources & support to accomplish them - then putting you down for not being superhuman... all sounds like double-bind, to me.

I ran across a website (and am ignoring it's focus on homosexuality). Here's a point that applies:

Traumatic malattunement--the inevitable consequence of the family communications style of the Double Bind--creates shame, and shame detaches the person from himself.

What first got my attention about this writing, was that the author also said, of therapy:

Several recent neurobiological studies have opened a window into this process of reconnecting the person back to himself. These findings suggest that the traditional, psychodynamic view of the division of the mind into unconscious-conscious, unrepressed-repressed, affective-cognitive is anatomically reflected by right-brain vs. left-brain activity. In reparative therapy, these two separate parts of the "severed self" are therapeutically united through what we call the Intensive Body Work of Affect-Focused Therapy.

Here's the website:  http://www.narth.com/docs/dblloop.html
I don't know enough about this style of therapy to know if it might be useful; but I took note of "body work" since I'm finding that body awareness is a big way I can heal and re-integrate my R&L brain consciousness... it's interesting...

The critical connection/association I made between my experience, what you're currently going through and this guy's statement is that shame detaches us from our Selves.

It's as if SHAME blots out any other thoughts, feelings or possibilities like the black cloud that preceeded the King of the Ringwraiths in Lord of the Rings... the smoky pall hanging over Mordor. It's as if we become all shame... and then our defenses kick in. Giving up, raging back through acting out, accepting the greyness of depression as preferable to the pain of shame... and in the process of defending ourselves: we lose our SELF. We lose our selves, because we're trying to survive (as children) the only way we know or can imagine how.

There is a big difference between surviving - because it's those old self-defense habits we cling to unconsciously, which become an additional problem to solve - and THRIVING... replacing the old with something new, different; trying something and enjoying the results, even if it's slow, scary, imperfect, until we've pushed out the old habit with a new one...

The more gradual this is; the less "forced"... the better, I'm finding.

ps - which version of King Arthur are you reading? I know most of these; painted quite a few images: Merlin, the Lady of the Lake, etc.

[Ami]

Thinking of you, SS. I feel you have opened a new door to healing,one that will lead to your authentic self.You are such a beautiful person, but,sometimes, it doesn't do much good when others tell us if we keep telling ourselves, otherwise.
 However,until  you CAN tell yourself, SS, I will tell you!   Love    Ami

[Overcomer]

SS:  I once heard an analogy.  If you are a cucumber and someone puts you in a jar of dill juice eventually you will become a pickle.  Just try to wash the dill juice off a pickle and make it into a cucumber again.  Is it impossible?  I think so.  So how does it fit?  When we were born we were cukes.  Fresh cukes from the garden.  But years and years of sitting in pickle juice (shame, disapproval, toxic emotions, unkind words, double binds, etc.....) we became pickles.  So now our goals is to be a cuke again...but we can't.  So now our goal is to be a part of a delicious chicken salad or tuna salad......we have to become better.  We cannot go back.

So here we are.....adults.  We are all nice people.  You and I were raised by wealthy parents who cared for their status and their lives better than for ours.  We were never loved in the way a child should be loved and we are not valued as adults.  We are working through all this crap.  Trying to learn and grow and undo.

SS(GS)  You are a wonderful woman.  You are making great strides.  You are walking out your life with determination.  YOU can do it.  We are here for you to lift you up when you are down and to offer support to you during your journey....

(((((((((SS))))))))))))))))))))

Love, Kelly

[Hopalong]

(((((((((((SS)))))))))))))))))

I was wondering...just before this thread, you were having an extended spurt of accomplishment, coping, daily determination, attacking closets, focusing and REfocusing on your waking tasks...and doing it so very well. You really were doing things differently. Making real progress on the house (foot by foot).

What I am wondering is if this new big wave of fear and shame might be a subconscious reaction to your recent bout of competence and new, stronger coping? Your experiences of moments of real success?

I know at times I have lapsed back into panic and despair just after I had begun to change and become stronger. Just after accomplishment, it was like my unconscious would sabotage me. And bam, I'd be back at the bottom of the well again.

If none of that rings a bell, please compost...

lots of love and support to you, dear,
Hops

[Gaining Strength]

I have had a very hard time coming back to this thread.  I am not surprised.  I know that there is a dark something buried and this thread is meant to unearth it.  It ils deep dark pain. 

For the past two days I have stayed with the phrase "not enough" trying to get at it.  I went to sleep last night concentrating on the phrase and much of the "usual" stuff came up.  I would bounce from my mother to my father and back but finally this morning it came up.  (now I am out of time until later)  The phrase that came up with great emotional weight is "not GOOD enough"  There it is and there is so much more to it.  I must stay with "not GOOD enough".  Once I got this phrase I had this image of my father standing above me kicking me and my mother laughing.  They have kicked me when I was down and loved it.

There is more here.  I will dig to find it.

Juno - you wrote Sometimes it seems hopeless.  Sometimes I don't want to deal with it. Every word of that post rings true to me.  It is very hard (surprisingly hard) for me to face any of this and even more so to ask for help.  the emotional pain is really percolating.

James - thank you for that guidance.  It is helpful to hear about your experiences and see how it may apply to me.

Phoenix Rising -
Does this help point out the path to the way out for you or is this too much "me"? My own trip?  You are 100% on target.  This is just the help.  So helpful.  Must persevere.

Hops - I think some of what you suggest may be the case but I also think that most of it is that the progress I have made was a necessary forestep to the process i now find myself in.  I had to make progress and gain strength and confidence in order to do the yeoman stretch of the hard work.  I am now strong enough and confident enough and healed enough to begin the real work.  I have gathered enough steam to move into the active, out of the passive, an push forward to claim my healing and overrcome the shame giver who stands with his foot on my head, accompanied and buoyed by my mother as a shadow puppet.  I am now strong enough to venture on the journey that will allow me to slay the shame without shaming the shame givers.  I don't need to strut or to celebrate my victory in that NFL way but more like a stately olympic medalist who stands with dignity on the medal block.  That is how I will stand when I have defeated the shame givers and the shame.

PR - ast this and later more - the double binds is precisely what I have known that I have lived under for years.  I have posted about it a number of times but never have I seen the correlation of double bind with shame and that is very powerful for me.  Understanding, having affirmed my experience and pain and then undoing are all such integral parts to the healing process.  I am doing and redoing the process for different parts and parcels of the wounding.  I cannot do it alone.  I have been trying to do it alone for years and years.  Ami made it clear how much others can help.  I am indescribably endebted to all for your help as I push forward to face these demons, these dragons, to face them and slay them.

[Certain Hope]

SS, All of my life I've had that "not good enough" and "it's never enough" ringing in my ears.
A mundane analogy... dusting with a dry cloth wasn't enough for me, but I had to wash the furniture with Murphy's oil soap. And no matter how clean I'd get the stuff, it'd just get dusty again, in no time. Anything I could do wasn't enough/ wasn't good enough.
Not good enough for what, though?
Not good enough to be happy? To be loved? To be content?

And what did I have to deny in order to come to that conclusion?
That I am a human being, not omnipotent, chock-full of foibles and frailties?

Now this has been the key to my solutions...  mine and not necessarily yours....
Recently I read this little tidbit:  Self-pity is pride whining.
Following that enlightenment came a whole other series of questions to ask myself... and I'm still asking.
The main one is - am I going to devote my life to defining myself and deciding who I am? Or am I going to rely on my Creator/Redeemer's definition of my identity, regardless of how I feel?

That really is it, in a nutshell. Who do I think I am? And does who I think I am really mean a hoot? Was I left hanging here to form myself or is the Potter still at the wheel? Having reviewed a lifetime of my own efforts, it's not so difficult for me to resign myself to His definition. And in acceptance, lieth peace.

Must persevere... yes. Still alongside you here... and praying, too.

With love,
Carolyn

[gratitude28]

((((((((((((((((SS)))))))))))))

You sound so different here I didn't even recognize you. I think you are definitely having a breakthrough.

I did want to comment on one thing you said - that someone had said your abuse was not as 'bad' as theirs. Abuse is abuse. I don't think you can quantify or qualify it. What matters is it took away what should have been YOU.

You are doing great.

Lots of love,
Beth

[Gaining Strength]

Certain Hope - your description of "not good enough" is exactly what I experience - about the mundane, about the big, about the petty and the significant - about it ALL!!!  You've got it. 

I do know that I am NOT defined that way by God.  I do want to see myself though God's eyes.  That is my goal.  A book that I love reminds its readers to focus on God's ability and not my ability and very often when I think about that I feel an immediate release of tension through my shoulders.  I am moving towards that but there is a mountain that I must cross to get there.

Ami - thanks so much.  it is so helpful to hear over and over and over again because i did not hear it as a child when it would have become a part of my bedrock self.  I will remember to drill it into my little one.  but I will receive what you have to give and will a heartfelt thanks.

Gratitude - that is so helpful to hear.  I cannot see it.  i can only see that I have made progress but that progress feels like drips from a faucet where a tsunami is needed.  I used this analogy with my T today and he said that was too passive an analogy and offered a different one that drew on an "active" process.  That whole issue of passive v. active is vital for me because I realize that my father forced me into accepting a passive role and that has been very, very detrimental in my life.  Now I am transitioning into an active role.  Difficult that's why I am needing and thankful for receiving help from you and the others here on the board.

Overcomer - that is a very interesting analogy.  Sort of like making lemonade out of lemons, making something good out of what you have.  "all things come to good ...." 

[sKePTiKal]

"All good things come to those who go looking for them"

[James]

Dear Shame Slayer......I have been thinking a lot about you, as you have been reaching out from your pain. I know what a beautiful sweet child you were because I see it in you now. Yes....... I do see this in spite of the shame that you are feeling and I know how bad this hurts because like you I have been where you are. If you can, use the love that I am sending to feel comfort and give you strength. You will be Ok...... you will be able will cast off this blanket of shame and find the beauty of who you really are. I see it now, and will wait patiently for you to find your way........Love, James

[Ami]

Dear SS
 Just thinking of you and sending thoughts of love and comfort to you.   Love   Ami

((((((((SS))))))))