Author Topic: Healthy community  (Read 31191 times)

Hopalong

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Healthy community
« on: June 13, 2008, 08:42:39 AM »
I see so much gaslighting, projecting and in particular, RALLYING, going on that I am no longer sure this board can remain a viable place for me.

One indicator of health, and relative Nism, for me (and including me), is the degree to which a person dominates the board.

I have been N-ish at times here, and one measure of that is that there were long long periods when I responded to virtually every single post and had a "wise opinion" on nearly every subject. After a while, it was no longer an issue of "finding my voice", it was asking myself if my voice ever shut up!  :)

I still feel blasts of energy and almost manic responsiveness at times. Most of the time, if I am trying to offer love or advice to another person, I don't feel badly about it. I'm a yakker, a flaming ENFP, and I also like to help. If I'm thoughtfully responding and not just typing in empty score-a-post words (oh I love you I love God I care oh-look-at-me I've COMMENTED!) -- I've done both -- anyway, if I'm thoughtfully responding and have the energy to do that in a widespread way now and then, I can live with my loudness.

I just can't live as comfortably with some OTHER people's loudness.  :shock: (Funny how that works.)

When I open the home page, click on Unread Posts Since Last Visit, and the same names come up over and over and over and over and over again in multiple threads, and the same recyled patterns of accusation and drama keep reappearing, I've come to believe that the board's health as a community is out of balance. I feel as though several voices are literally devouring the board with relentless demands for attention and that they are using up most of the oxygen in the room. And I know at times mine has been one of them.

It makes me sad. When I first came, I felt I was in the company of wise, kind, humorous people (for the most part). One thing that stood out as I got to know the community was how so many of these women who had suffered through so much, and who had learned and deepened because of it...were so thoughtful and kind in the way they responded to other people's lives. The wisest sand kindest seemed to not take themselves too seriously, and also were selective and sparing. They didn't flood every thread or every page.

They took pain seriously and responded to it with respect for its significance. But there was perspective. They often mention other people in their lives whom they love or are touched by; they were seldom the only subject of their own posts. Over and over they demonstrated for me the wisdom of laughing and playing and interweaving lightness with depth and sorrows. There was a peaceful rhythm to their posting. Some more and some less depending on personality, but there was a sense of community and group dialogue, not a few dancers who eternally elbowed others off the stage and shoved their own stories front and center on a daily bais. I celebrate and thank Mum, Daylily, Sela, H&H, Portia, Bridgit, and so many more. They've all gone quiet now.

I am particularly sad for the lurkers and potential newcomers who either don't dare step onto the board for what they are seeing, or who try it out and quickly vanish, overwhelmed by toxicity and drama.

I don't want to leave the community or my friends here, but I am feeling I should consider it. In order to address my own addictive and dependent tendencies, and in order to make room, I hope, for a newcomer who needs the space here.

I would like for newcomers to have a sense of spaciousness. Of quiet welcome and patient openness. Receptivity. Those things are best achieved by sharing space, I believe. And I have expanded to fill more than my share of it.

No firm decision but I wanted to tell people that I am confronting this question, of leaving. And why.

This thread is for anyone who is having similar feelings and would like to take a turn discussing balance on the board, health of the board, and who has any other related ideas or thoughts to share.

The only request I have is that is be a dialogue as though we were sitting in a circle, with a commitment to share time relatively equally. This is an invitation to anyone who has felt there was no point in posting, or who has not spoken much lately, and who would like to have a quiet SHARED dicussion, as in taking turns, with mutliple voices rather than only the familiar few.

I ask that it be respectful and kind and mature, and that the larger goal of rebuilding and maintaining a healthier community, with serious consideration to questions of dominance and quantity versus quality of sharing, be the topic.

love
Hops
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 11:02:15 AM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Leah

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Re: Healthy community
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2008, 08:45:01 AM »


Hops, I totally agree.


I know from looking back through the board that there have been conflicts being played out from the boards inception 5 years ago and ongoing to present date.

I don't know of the members you mention, with the exception of Portia who I have read as leaving during the conflict in Aug/Sept' 07  from reading the posts during that time (as I was not posting during that  time as I took a very long months long break from the board, from May'07 to Oct'07).


Correction:   Sorry, Sela, of course I do know you here on the board, my sincere apology.  (and I hope your seedlings have flourished and are blooming).


So, I accept that conflicts are the normal course of events here on the board.   Though personally, I do not think that they are healthy.


However, there are many gentle spirited lovely people sitting on the sideline in safety, lurking, being too afraid to post.

I would like to see newcomers feeling safe and comfortable to freely express without being placed under a paranoid spotlight and being frightened away.


This is a place for Healing of Voicelessness and Emotional Hurt.

Not a place for replication of the same as endured.


I am hoping that many of whom are lurking in safety will feel safe to join this thread and contribute to positive and wholesome effect


Hope you are enjoying your break from the board and that you are achieving all you set out to do, and also, that your work in the garden is blooming and flourishing.

Love, Leah


« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 09:38:10 AM by LeahsRainbow »
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

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Overcomer

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Re: Healthy community
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2008, 09:34:15 AM »
Hops-ditto!  You said it so well that I cannot add anything to it.  I have refrained from posting much because it is as you say.
Kelly

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cats paw

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Re: Healthy community
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2008, 09:44:49 AM »
Hi Hops,

  If your decision to leave would be what you feel benefits yourself, that is one thing.  But to say it would be to make room and
  leave enough space for others?  You are considering health and balance, not just within yourself, but also for the community.  
  
  So by practicing it, would you not be contributing to rebuiding your vision of healthy community?  There would be ample room for yourself
  and others, even on your energetic days.  Your final decision will be what is best for yourself.

  
Passing the talking stick to the next person in the circle,
cats paw

Edit in for typos
  
    
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 10:47:36 AM by cats paw »

sKePTiKal

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Re: Healthy community
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2008, 09:46:21 AM »
Oh.... Hops....

yes. I've been thinking about this too. It's about "letting go" for me...
along with letting go a few other things.

I feel it's not possible to collaborate with others in healing - in sharing the healing process - if you can't speak honestly and provide observations to people without being accused of "stepping on their corns" and causing additional pain. Damn it - it's their pain - and another person is not the cause of it! Blaming other people is a big part of the "problem". The whole point of being here is to share ourselves and ACCEPT the offered feedback from others as HELP to heal. To me, that was the most encouraging aspect of the board - the real sharing of our experiences as a means to help each other. I have received so much from so many.

But, I'm still here.... tho' I've retreated some. I have made some very good friends here - you Hops, for one - and several others. And I cherish those friends, it's something I haven't allowed myself much, since High School.

I've come to believe some people try to use support groups as a way to act out their own conflicts about their FOO or the relationship with the N. Transference. Projection.... whatever. And I believe also, that they need a different kind of help than a support group can provide. It's not an appropriate place to actually re-enact those conflicts or experiences.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Certain Hope

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Re: Healthy community
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2008, 10:39:30 AM »
Hops,

I share Kitty Foot's view. Besides, you are welcome to share my O2  any day.

So... wontcha come set a spell over there on your side of the scales... in the interest of balance?  :)

Love,
Carolyn

Hopalong

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Re: Healthy community
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2008, 10:58:01 AM »
Thanks, all-a y'all. I appreciate the reminder that part of my reasoning wasn't appropriate (that I'd need to move on to make space for newcomers). I'll (gratefully) backpedal on that part of it! My own feelings about dominance and quantity over quality are really useful to the topic only as an illustration of one person's thoughts. (I know it helps me when people do that. I benefit much more from people's personal thoughts, more than articles/theories...that's just me.)

I really appreciate yours, and you (individually) know you are my friends. I see where I was wonky--I don't need to modestly "move over". Thanks. If I decide to leave it won't be for that reason.Thanks for the love...(((((((youse know who youse are)))))) . I don't want to make the thread about me, though. Hope it just sparks others "old" and new to share their thoughts--a good open discussion with plenty of voices.

I'm eager to listen to more thoughts on dominance, etc., and rebuilding a healthy community. It's a good topic (she said, humbly) regardless of any individual decision...if it helps the board get better.

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

cats paw

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Re: Healthy community
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2008, 11:10:23 AM »
Hops,

  I understood and appreciated your use of your personal thoughts as an illustration useful to the topic, plus I also admire your sharing your self-examination.  Also, I knew your thread was not just about you, but about community, of which you have been a part.

  Yes, it is a good topic.

cats paw

Certain Hope

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Re: Healthy community
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2008, 11:29:09 AM »
Hops,

I am afraid that the beauty of this will be lost in the shuffle:

Quote
The only request I have is that is be a dialogue as though we were sitting in a circle, with a commitment to share time relatively equally. This is an invitation to anyone who has felt there was no point in posting, or who has not spoken much lately, and who would like to have a quiet SHARED dicussion, as in taking turns, with mutliple voices rather than only the familiar few.

I ask that it be respectful and kind and mature, and that the larger goal of rebuilding and maintaining a healthier community, with serious consideration to questions of dominance and quantity versus quality of sharing, be the topic.

How to express a view without creating further offense or inviting defensive interpretations?   I don't know.

I wish that many other people will reply here, with their own thoughts.

What you wrote here has summed it up for me:  
Quote
They took pain seriously and responded to it with respect for its significance. But there was perspective. They often mention other people in their lives whom they love or are touched by; they were seldom the only subject of their own posts.

I can just hear the cries of - "You can't tell me to just get over it!", etc, etc.

And I know, of course, that's not the suggestion at all...
but that's likely how it will be interpreted, imo.

So - I repeat - I'm afraid to suggest anything directly.
And maybe others are, too? Maybe that's a big part of the stagnation here?

So - setting fear aside, here goes - -
I do think that it's damaging when members repeatedly post, over and over, about "me, myself, and I"... consistently, over time, months, years even... which feels to me like draining the life's blood from the community as a whole, as it draws all attention to a very narrow focal point.

But you asked for suggested remedies... and I don't know any, other than to talk about it here and maybe that will help develop a bit more awareness? I hope so.
Definitely, I want to help in every way possible to try to bring back a sense of community here and foster new growth.

Love,
Carolyn

Leah

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Re: Healthy community
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2008, 11:38:23 AM »


My sincere love to you, Hops

          In all honesty, I don't think that the "board" can heal itself, it certainly hasn't up till now.


Amber wrote:
Quote

I've come to believe some people try to use support groups as a way to act out their own conflicts about their FOO or the relationship with the N. Transference. Projection.... whatever. And I believe also, that they need a different kind of help than a support group can provide. It's not an appropriate place to actually re-enact those conflicts or experiences.


I do think what Amber as shared, above, is the key to the real issue of conflicts here, ongoing, on and off, since the board began, evidently, which is an undeniable truth.


These are my thoughts and words;

Any healthy community is made up of reciprocal inclusiveness, with interactions of respect and consideration for each individual member of the community, and without invalidation of any kind.

Otherwise, the ground is merely akin to shifting sand.


Also, some people, myself included, are wary of expressing their thoughts, and their lives here, for the reason of not feeling safe in the midst of the climate of relational aggression.
Having ones life experience hurled back at oneself, or worse still misconstrued, is not healthy.  That has happened.

The solution lies within -- each member of this community.

Leah x


Invalidation kills confidence, creativity, individuality... and if we do not find a way to re-empower our individual and collective lives and to connect with our humanity it will slowly erode all that we have built into a tower of sand.   The solution that we seek in our lives, in our work and in our world does not lie outside us but within us. We each have the power to move past invalidation by igniting the power of our heart to touch our mind and infuse our life and the lives of others with validation and joy.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 12:14:36 PM by LeahsRainbow »
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

sKePTiKal

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Re: Healthy community
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2008, 11:56:22 AM »
Carolyn wrote:
Quote
What you wrote here has summed it up for me: 

They took pain seriously and responded to it with respect for its significance. But there was perspective. They often mention other people in their lives whom they love or are touched by; they were seldom the only subject of their own posts.

I can just hear the cries of - "You can't tell me to just get over it!", etc, etc.

And I know, of course, that's not the suggestion at all...
but that's likely how it will be interpreted, imo.


Hearing only "get over it" is the problem, Carolyn. Because of course, that's not something anyone of us says or means - it's only what is heard.

When someone wants to cling to their pain, obsess and fixate on what horrible things happened (and I speak from my own experience with myself here)... even attempts to relieve that pain are seen as threats, more abuse... Some people choose lives of continual pain - even creating new situational pain - because it's comfortable; they don't have to change; it's what they know; they don't have to RISK being their real selves or being responsible - they can always blame someone else, playing the victim, getting attention for "poor me"...

Oh, I was really good at this - WAS.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Leah

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Re: Healthy community
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2008, 12:16:47 PM »


I have come to realize that Wounded Hearts are Captive Hearts  --  as mine WAS

Anyone who is captive is bound and not free -- as I WAS

And I do think that anyone who is bound and not free is most likely struggling to break free.

Leah x
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 12:20:11 PM by LeahsRainbow »
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Izzy_*now*

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Re: Healthy community
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2008, 12:32:23 PM »
Hops,
Your post to begin this thread is well said.

I am one who was choosing to just lurk, but I found I missed the interaction, so have posted in spurts, trying to go back to lurking mode yet feel I want to respond in certain instances, such as commending you on your post, and the responders to it as well.

Anyone who makes it a point to post on every thread, with basically no 'meat' to the post is likely vying for attention, or trying to win a race. I find that not all threads contain what feels like being right 'up my alley' so sometimes my posts are few and far between.

In the big picture, I feel comfortable here, feel I have made friends (and lost some too) and have shared things that I have never said in 3D to anyone! That is how understanding and trustworthy I felt the people on this board to be
Izzy
"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

lighter

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Re: Healthy community
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2008, 12:44:02 PM »

Hey Hops.


I've missed your strong sage voice...

so glad you're not leaving.

As one who left the board, not knowing if she'd return.... this thread resonates with me.



Lighter


debkor

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Re: Healthy community
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2008, 12:46:28 PM »
I think we all are here for obvious reasons, we all have been abused, in one way or another.  Some worse then others.

In the recent conflicts what I have seen is Voices being spoken loud and clear on all parts.  Some things that I don't agree with and maybe even crossing a line right into harassment.  But Voices I hear.  Are things intentional, don't know..

I have seen boundaries set, people standing up for themselves and point blank (in your face) this is my opinion, and a No Contact set in place.  I choose to not engage.  I won't dance don't ask me. 

I think this is damn healthy. 

So as far as newbies looking on and seeing DRAMA yes that might be true but look deeper So many people healing and so much growth and strength and sometimes it gets Icky getting there.  And yes it goes off balance but isn't that true in real life.  Please don't get stuck and focus on the drama part there is way more then just that on this board... the healing, the growth,,, read and learn... this board is our tool.. to learn.. to heal.. to grow... to get healthy.. this is whats it's all about. 

There is so much growth here it out ways the conflicts, as I can, see it.

I do believe in this board and the people.   JMO..

Love
Deb