Healthy community

[Ami]

I am glad for you, Tayana. I am glad you have friends at this board and the other, as well as a wonderful partner.
    Ami
       

[Hopalong]

No prob, ((((Izz)))).
Just a gentle nudge.

xo
Hops

[Certain Hope]

Hi, Hops,

Requesting no contact in certain cases is proving to be the best action for me in allowing for continued progress toward healing instead of repeated steps into the muck.

I've no desire to re-enact any conflicts, old or new... and I do not believe that most folks here on this board are interested in pursuing that mode.
Maybe that happens unconsciously, at times, but with increased self-awareness, I'm thinking that it can be cut off at the pass.
Long before all of that is untangled and sorted, a request for no contact can quiet the bruhaha (no clue how to spell it) sufficiently to allow for navigation across some slippery slopes.

Those are just my thoughts. And thanks again for this thread, Hops.

Love,
Carolyn

[Ami]

I, so ,agree, with the sentiments.          Ami

[Leah]

Hi folks,

Please let it be know that I personally have no desire for conflicts, in particular, having researched, read, and posted onto this board, of the root cause of such tumult.

I have researched back and read through much of the archives and ascertained that this board has had conflicts on-going from its inception some 5 years ago  --  which is the truth.


Personally, I do feel it is possible to enjoy a healthy community, wherein, healthy reciprocal respect and consideration, one for another, and acceptance of each individual regardless of status or ability, race, culture or faith (or none). 

I believe that diversity and acceptance, with respectful tolerance and understanding goes along way to finding the key to the door -- for the way out to life anew in harmony and accord.


Thoughts of  (((((( Everyone ))))))

Love to ALL

Leah

[Ami]

Leah said it all!          Ami

[sKePTiKal]

Ami - what is your contribution to this thread?

What do you think is the cause of the conflicts? the cure?

[Ami]

If you start a new thread, I may  answer Amber. I can detect baiting,but we shall see.    Ami

[Sela]

Hiya Hops,

It's good to see some posters who've been off for awhile.  Hi Ya'll!!  Hope you are well!!
Thanks for this thread, Hops.  Thanks for expressing it all so honestly and openly, rather than just disappearing ....going away without trying to understand or explain (not that I don't understand going away quietly without expressing or explaining.....been there, done that.   I just really appreciate you taking the time, Hops.  Really, I do).

I would like for newcomers to have a sense of spaciousness. Of quiet welcome and patient openness. Receptivity.

If I have ever read a post of yours, Hops, to any newcomer.......you have surely offered each one such a space.....always with kindness and gentle wisdom.  Sorry if that's too mushy.....kissy....lovey-dovey ......it's the absolute truth, in my head and so I have no worries of saying so and hope if others feel .....off....reading that....that they will just skip over to the next person's post ('cause this one ain't likely to hit home.  Sorry.  We are all different).

Anyway, without you on this board, newcomers will have one less kind, caring soul to greet them and that idea makes me feel sad.

On the other hand, I perfectly understand your desire and explanation .......have popped off myself for similar, if not exact reasons.........totally acknowledge that sometimes......a break is needed/necessary and so then I wish you well, Hops, many blessings and send a great hug filled with love off with you.



Sometimes, it feels like we are all just children here.

Reliving the horrors we've experienced (be that in child or adulthood.....which each reduce us to a child-like state).  If you think about it....what does that mean?

To me....it means a state of unprotected need.

Don't we all come here needing?  Wanting protection/relief from what ails us?
Aren't we all the same in that respect?


But it's like the blind leading the blind.
How can one needy child lead another needy child through a whole group of needy children, all thinking they know how to lead the new needy child better than anyone?

None of us really does know how to help the other (just my opinion).  I think......plenty of people here try and some even succeed, but often it's by mistake or luck or something.  I think we try to guess eachother's needs maybe?

When it comes down to it.....we've all been taught to shut up and stop pretending we need anything.
Our needs have been belittled, insulted, discarded, ignored, ridiculed, minimized, forgotten.....worst...practically beaten out of our heads(either physically or emotionally that is).
So when .......especially....we first come here......we have no idea what we need or how to ask for it....or even how to accept it.....if by chance it happens to fall in our lap (by the grace of someone trying to help or give back).  To me......so many conflicts here begin by two methods:

1.  Misunderstanding (one person thinking they know/deciding the intentions of others or just not hearing what that person is trying to say)

and

2.  Projection/whatever it's-called---being triggered by another and often not even aware of reliving past FOO stuff via a current interaction.


Check it out and see if this makes any sense to you.  Maybe I'm cracked? (hahaha.....it's almost certain!!)

Maybe in our childlike, needy state.......we need to do that?  Sometimes I wonder if it isn't cleansing?  If so.....I don't mind then....being someone's "target"......if it helps them to purge their pain, once and for all.  I need to remember...that might be what's happening though.  I forget sometimes.



Anyway......yep.....for me......the conflicts here have gone from emotionally staggering to almost.....boring......same old.......yadda yadda.

So I ask myself...what does that say about me?  Does it mean something really good or really bad or something in the middle?  Am I "past" the conflict stuff here?  I know I can't be bothered half the time (those are my selfish days).  Am I beyond it? (don't think I can learn anything from it?)  Is that a good thing?  Does it still upset me to see conflict here? ......

I'll leave a few of those unanswered because I'm not certain even I know for sure.

I like what Tayanna said about it being......"constant drama and attention"......

That's a good description for those involved in conflict on the board. 





Is that a need, I wonder?

Is it sinful?  Shameful?

Therapeautic?



Let's face it, we children have not had the proper drama and attention.  Our dramas have all been .......excuse me.....

frigged up.

And attention?  Ha!! 

Not the proper kind from any N I know.  I don't think many of us have had proper attention...proper love.


So no wonder we need/want/drum up ......almost as part of our journey to healing or metamorphosis or whatever we wanna call it.......

these many conflicts.


Personally, I see people grow here.....so much.  Often ......from screaming, crying, kicking infants to reasonably sane and calm adults.  It's practically miraculous!!  Wonderful to watch.  It's often a long, slow process but I love it when I read some of the things I read here!  I even hear some of them!!

Imo, many come here not just voiceless but also.....

deaf. (frightened, defensive, tunnel visioned, needing more than anything......safety, warmth, love).



It's the hearing........that looks so lovely to me.  When people hear eachother here......it's a sure sign of healing, if you ask me.  It's when they find that truly safe place of warmth and maybe when they really feel loved?  I dunno.  It's just what I think and feel.  It's nice to feel heard and great to be able to hear.  Not all of the time but even some of the time.

Just my 42 cents.  Ramble ramble.  Hope no one fell asleep.

Sela

[Sela]

Ami,

I respectfully disagree with your comment (upon edit:  which was something to the effect that we all can only heal ourselves and then we'll have a healthy community--your comment now erased---see....I didn't hear that clearly or I'd remember exactly what you wrote!  Pass the q-tips!).  There have been people here who have helped me heal by bothering to look and express their thoughts.....ask questions......try to understand ....help me figger out what I need.......take a guess at what I needed, etc.    Without their help.....I would be back where I was....suffering alone......wandering.....going in circles.

If we only need ourselves to heal......there would be no use for such a board.

If this makes sense to you, I'm glad.  If not.....please don't take it personally.  It's just my opinion.

Sela

[Ami]

I was just gonna erase my post b/c YOU are right, Sela. Thank you for pointing that out. I did not express myself clearly. I agree with you.        Blessings,  Ami

[tayana]

To add to Sela's post:

If all we needed to do to heal was look inside ourselves, then we wouldn't need therapists and psychiatrists.  Unfortunately, they seem to do a very good business listening to us voice our fears, problems and hurts.

[Ami]

You are so right on, Tayana. Thanks for your very astute observation.   Peace,    Ami

[teartracks]

Hi CB,



Hi CB,

Wonderfullly said and painfully true.

What's wrong with admitting that we are selfish, self-absorbed?  That we gossip sometimes?  That we arent completely loyal friends?  Why do we feel as though we have to prove that we are perfect in order to be accepted? I have been, I have done all those things.  But it isnt the sum-total of who I am.  I am bigger than those things.  I am constantly turning a corner in a labyrinth and coming across something unexpected.  I am dirty and I have skinned knees.  I have a bloody nose.  Sometimes I hurt people coming around the corner, sometimes I help them up.  Sometimes I dont realize who I ran over until I look back.  Jeez, I'm a mess.

Thank you so much for your sobering input.

Last night I watched Mia Farrow's biography on Lifetime.  She said this that struck me as truth in my life experience and especially in light of all that transpired  on the board recently.

“I get it now; I didn't get it then. That life is about losing and about doing it as gracefully as possible... and enjoying everything in between.”

So, I'm agreeing.  I get it that Just because everyone in the community is not behaving well, doesn't mean that the community itself is unhealthy.

Almost every time there is 'conflict' like the one this week, I write what has come to sound even to me like a tired form letter chastising members for not being heads up and for not self monitoring more effectively with the whole of the VESMB community in mind.   I never feel really heard when I fire out these retorts.  (I now realize, I wasn't saying what was in my mind clearly.)  So today, I'm going to try and speak my fear in a way that won't insult reason.

 Here goes:  Back toward the end of the  ReallyMe days, someone said something to the affect (or is it effect) that a board they had participated on had been reduced to a handful of women because of the destructive activity of person(s) bent on destroying the board.  In other words, a perfectly good board had been destroyed by conflicts intentionally introduced for that very purpose.  Destroy, destroy, destroy.   You see, when I fire out my same ole, same ole retort during conflicts, it is not because I object to people who are at the stage you describe here: I think that there are some members here that are crashing and burning and that it is not a negative thing at all.  They are crashing and burning on their way to a lot of insight.  That's a good thing.  Painful to watch though. Rather, it is because I fear that the best place I know for those exact people to experience what you describe is under attack and that they and I may be but one conflict away from having this soft place to fall.   My fear is not of the conflict bound to come from these who've suffered untold abuse.  My fear is that VESMB will be reduced to a handful of like minded members who have for whatever reason (perhaps the herd mentality), agreed not to disagree, bent on thereby, converting the best board in existence on voicelessness to one of exclusion.  If you don't agree with the handful, you're out!  People who spend their  time smoozing and blowing kisses to one another endlessly.  My one and only fear is that VESMB's effectiveness will be reduced to THAT!    I may be wrong, but I think I'm observing a shorter elapsed time between conflicts and a movement to exclusiveness.  As much as I would like to think that my fears have no real foundation, when it's all said and done and I've said my piece, that's what everything I've said about conflict on the board  is  about.  Threats to the very existence of the board is my overall and somewhat consuming concern.    Blessed or cursed, I see the big picture.  Be it blessed or cursed, I tend to look at the big picture.  I remain a, sometimes scorned, defender of VESMB as best I understand its intended function.

A remaining question may be, tt, do you have a person or persons in mind as you write this.  The answer is no.  Do I become suspicious as conflicts manifest?  Edit in:  As regards the foregoing, you betcha.  Do I think I have the market cornered on discernment?  No.  Do I think that what I've said here necessitates a response from anyone?  No.  Do I think that what I have to say has merit and bears consideration?  Yes.

tt

Thank you so much for validating my fear as that, just fear.  It took some time for me to accept that I was experiencing a fear that the board would go extinct.  Codependence.  I've learned another facet of it.  Its symptoms aren't necessarily exclusive to relationships between people.  It is exhibited in many ways.   Duh!  I think I've recognized that the fear I expressed in that post may just be another kind of codependence.  I would love to hear your thoughts re board codependence.

tt

[sea storm]

I think the board is healthy, robust, combative, loving, nudging, irritating and messy and at times funny.  Sometimes it is really boring and boring posts dominate for awhile. I don't really know why this ebb and flow happens. It always amazes me that there are enough sane, sage and well spoken people to tame down the more batty posters. Eventually, it seems even the easily triggered and rather paranoid ones get the message. Which is:  we are here for each other, to love and support each other and validate the truth of their stories.  This does not mean that every word I will write hear will be set to music and everyone will swoon with affirmation and delight. At times I have felt the barbs of disapproval. Rarely, has it not been deserved.

I used to get very hurt by the slightest thing on the board. I remember once i posted, early on, and people just started yakking about everything and anything. I went bananas.  How rude I thought when I was so DESPERATE to be heard and understood. I said how I felt and learned a lot.

The Dalai Lama says that irritating, hostile people are great teachers.  I agree.  How this is handles on the board is part of the committment to being here. I have grown tired of the board and felt that it was getting off track into more of a coffee klatch sort of thing.  On the other hand, I am no longer baring my soul here.  I still require soul baring but I just don't do it. So I am part of the problem.

When Hops said she may be leaving I gasped. Oh please dont go.   i find her posts are the veritable Beethoven;s Fifth of posts. She is so compassionate, astute, knowledgeable and present.  When I check in I go see her first.  I see she is stewarding the flock nicely, with integrity and wisdom.  Bickering back and forth on posts is annoying.  It really is. Stick to making "I ' Statements. This gossiping is petty and wreeks of lateral violence. 

This is an open space and like the town square in olden days, there are bound to be wingbats.  But there are also revolutionaries and visionaries and torchbearers.

Maybe it is time for Hops to write a book about all this.  Heaven knows she speaks with the voice of angels about something that is dark and like a nuclear winter in our society.  Eating away at the underpinnings.

On the other hand if it is not safe for her to show her soft underbelly here, then we should all hang our heads and smarten up pronto.

Much love,

Sea storm