Healthy community

[Leah]

Thank you, Izzy

Because to me personally, having sat here and read again what was expressed, I could only see, discern and decide, that Amber had merely expressed her own opinion.

I genuinely feel validated as discerning correctly.

Love,

Leah

[Gabben]

I'm sorry you feel that way.

Thanks Amber for allowing me the expression and the benefit of the doubt as well as not invalidating my feelings.

It is just that there is sometimes a great deal of projection as well as misreading of my posts by you. That is my truth. When others shame us...through comparison statements as well as put spins on our words, it feels icky...wouldn't you say?

Perhaps you are not as aware that you are doing this?

Your post felt like you were having knee jerk reaction to my words.

Of course I have always been very kind and warm to newbies. My post was not to say that I do not trust them...THOSE WERE NOT MY WORDS -- once again Amber, you put words in my mouth.  My post was to say that I remain cautious...there is a difference.


No one likes having words put in there mouth, correct?


Lise

[Hopalong]

Hi Lise,

If you'd like to discuss a conflict with Amber, would you mind starting a separate thread for it?

thanks,
Hops

[Gabben]

Dear Izzy,

The reason that statement is an issue of control is that we have no control over how others feel and think.

I certainly can try to empathize with newbies... if there had been people here that were kindly blind and unquestioning to me when I first got here it would have created a wariness in me, it would have felt as though a bunch of hungry unscrutinizing cult followers were trying to buy me in with undeserved kindness.

Anywhere we go in life we have to prove ourselves - even message boards.

Actually, I respect communites where I have to watch my footing and prove myself before others grant me FULL trust and warmth.

Otherwise, I have to ask myself why they are they SO nice?

Lise

[Gabben]

Hi Lise,

If you'd like to discuss a conflict with Amber, would you mind starting a separate thread for it?

thanks,
Hops

Actually, Hops,

No... I am done discussing it -- I have said all that I need to. If Amber would like to discuss it with me then she can start a new thread.

Feel free to go back to controlling your thread,  I am sorry for the interruption.

Lise

[Hopalong]

That's okay, just a nudge.
(I usually couldn't care pish for diversions from topic.
Just thought I'd try with this thread to steer it a little.)

Thank you, Lise.

Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Some new thoughts on this topic:

In a healthy community, the rules as stated apply to all. There are no special dispensations, no free passes, for behavior that violates the rules. No matter who the people are or what their situation is.

To allow behavior in SOME that violates the rules of the board against hateful, abusive, and accusatory remarks, creates a hostile environment for the group as whole resulting in the self-selected silence of many. To allow the behavior repeatedly without comment, implies that it's acceptable. I don't believe this is fair.

People should not let bullies go ON and ON and ON and ON( 2 years)

Ami herself is guilty of bullying; of all the things she is accusing unnamed others of.

PR -- Most of the times that you have posted to me on the board I feel nauseated when I read your posts

While I still stand by my statement that Lise is allowed to feel her feelings and to express them, I find I'm not as thick-skinned about this as I thought I was. Time and again, Lise has accused me of "ulterior motives" in my simple, plain and clear comments to her... over & over projecting some image of someone who has hurt her, onto me and onto others.

Not doing anything about this and not saying anything about it is in essence, validating the behavior. I don't believe that validating this behavior is fair to the community as a whole. I feel it's at the core of all of the conflicts and these conflicts will continue until sanctions against the behavior are enforced.

I am well able to protect myself these days, so that's not the issue for me. It's not personal anymore.
What is personal, is when the rules don't apply equally to everyone.

So I felt I needed to say this for the benefit of those who are not able to say it or choose not to.

On EDIT: I apologize to everyone for presumptively nominating myself "spokesperson". It was cowardly also. You all can speak for yourselves. It was only after I'd posted that I realized how important it was for me to say this for MYSELF. I can no longer hide behind the self-created powerlessness of silence - and I grabbed at imagining that I'm not the only person who feels this way.

My humblest apologies to EVERYONE.

[Ami]

 Your problem is not  me,Amber , a voice in the computer.If you look inside  ,Amber, you would do MUCHO  better. Who do  I remind you of ,in your life, Amber. Start there, no?            Ami

[Leah]

Thank you, Amber

I agreed with resounding accord, of your overall and general expression of clarity, in this place.   I am grateful for the validation of my heart's cry - my voice.

Love, Leah


And my heart affirms and agrees with a clear voice ...   What is personal, is when the rules don't apply equally to everyone


Edit: Oh, Amber, I have been speaking about it for so long now, and I am truly grateful for your validating clear voice of clarity. 

[Leah]

Finally, in this community - here on this board ............. the following may be helpful:



http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=5697.msg90919#msg90919

Thanks for telling me.  Harassment is not permitted on the board.  Let me know if it happens again, and you would like me to do something about it.

Best,

Richard

The above is what I would expect as it is clearly in line with the Board Membership agreement, which each person joining the board is required to tick in acceptance and agreement, and of which, I myself agreed to, in good faith:

You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing,

obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy

Not my truth - but The truth

of the difference between a conflict - and blatant abusive behavior.

Respectfully,

Love, Leah



  All of this is CURRENT  -   I have just read again, and all of the agreement is exactly the same as of todays date at this moment in time.

 

[CB123]

Amber,

You're right.

And I think you may be touching on the foundation of what it means to have a healthy community.

Thank you for saying it.

CB

[sKePTiKal]

Your problem is not  me,Amber , a voice in the computer.If you look inside  ,Amber, you would do MUCHO  better. Who do  I remind you of ,in your life, Amber. Start there, no?            Ami

Ami, it doesn't matter who you remind of me of. I have dealt with that and I can't change what happened in the past.
I can however, do something about the present - which is say exactly what I feel, see and observe.

I am making an observation about the here & now, on the board.

[Ami]

Amber
 I have made it clear ,I do not desire your help or your counsel. Why don't you save your  counsel for a person who requests it Amber. I have not requested it, and have no plans,in the immediate future ,to do so. If I change my mind, you will be the first to know.         Ami

[sKePTiKal]

Ami - I'm not offering you any assistance and I'll remind you that Hops wants this thread to be limited to talk of a healthy community.

Case in point: my post was NOT "all about you" or Lise - it was about rules and how they are enforced. You just happen to be someone who doesn't abide by the rules - even when reminded on specific threads, so you wound up being an example. This isn't a personal issue between the two of us.

[Hopalong]

Ami and Amber,
Would one of you be willing to start a fresh thread to discuss?

For example, this new thread could be something like: CONFLICT CORNER: Ami and Amber. That could alert the board that this is a temporary time out from group discussion, as two people are going to work toward resolving something, if they can. (And if they can't they could try until the discussion is ended by either or both.) And maybe only the principals (plus Doc G if he feels it appropriate) should participate, until they are ready for more people, and one of them could say so?

Maybe that would reduce "rallying" and mindless "I'm on HER side, no I'm on HER side" kinds of chiming in?

I have no idea whether this is a good idea toward Healthy Community. But it strikes me as a space between the free for all, where dialogue can get drowned by too many voices from the peanut gallery, and conflict by PM, which feels unsafe.

What do you think Ami? What do you think Amber?

love
Hops