Powerlessness

[Gaining Strength]

two things happened last night that helped me understand something more:

1) My son was treated meanly by an older boy at a cub scout meeting.  I watched him tell a scout leader and another mother what the boy had done.  Both adults, very kindly, told him why the boy had not meant to do that or how my son had misunderstood.  Not me.  I told him that the boy was mean to him.  But boy did I have an insight into what it was like as a child telling people that someone (my mother) had been mean.  Noone would listen. 

2) Had a dream:  trying to ascert my power in a stiuation.  Could not, kept slipping into powerlessness.  When I woke up I saw something that happened in my life that reinforced my sense of powerlessness.  My father who had been a powerful civic leader, served in local government, served on bank boards and Fortune 500 corp board and local organizations began "decomposing" in a major way about 20 years ago, one year before my maternal grandfather, who was known thoughout our state and in political and legal circles nationally, died.  Up until that point, if I had a problem I could go to my grandfather and he would get it taken care of.  All of a sudden I had noone to turn to and problems began amassing.  At the same time I was divorced and moved back to my hometown, alone with a family falling apart, and for the very first time in my life with absolutely noone to turn to. That was the first time I had friends turn their backs on me.  I understand why they did.  I was bitter and angry.  Noone in their right mind would be reaching out but that powerlessness and rejection and alienation has left me with no sense of being able to get back on my feet and that is not true. 

This insight will help open the way to clear this detrius away.  My son's experience gave me an opportunity to help him understand that he must trust himself even when adults dismiss him.  That, I pray, will help him retain his power.

[sKePTiKal]

SS:

Two things - your son's experience first:

children assume that adults are trustable "authorities" until they learn that there are bad, ignorant, or just plain inconsiderate people of all ages. He's about 10 right? He is about the age, when he needs to begin learning about standing his ground; standing up for himself; creating that boundary with adults - and other kids. He knows what he knows, even if adults see it differently. I'm not exactly encouraging a challenge to authority, in every instance. But if they're not hearing him - hearing that he was hurt, even if it was minor - he needs to persist and be able to politely ask for what he wants: an apology, for instance.

Hon, from what you're describing about these men in your life - you grew up sheltered from some of the experiences others of us who had neither wealth, status, or power had to go through, to get anywhere at all. These "protectors" from the basic necessities of life also didn't provide you with opportunities to learn what those necessities were. So, when you found yourself with no one left to turn to - DARN RIGHT you were angry! Somebody didn't do right by you when you were growing up - and so you found yourself without the skills & knowledge you needed. SOME FRIENDS who didn't recognize this and weren't able to see through the anger to the confusion and disappointment!! HMMPH.

Go easy on yourself....

[Gaining Strength]

PR - I get your point about being able to ask for what my son needs.  He was definitely trying to do that.  He is actually only 7.   I do hope to teach him to ask for what he needs and I also want him to know that adults are not right simply by virtue of the fact that they are adults.  I wanted to confirm for him that the boy was a bully whether or not others acknowledged that for him.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Hopalong]

That's so wonderful that you validated your son.

I think one key is to not enable him seeing himself as a victim, while at the same time he is in touch with reality.

When I was attacked by bullies as a child, I wish someone had said, You're right, they are bullying you, and that's wrong. It's not fair, but there are bullies in life. So it's good to learn to avoid them as much as you can. And when there's no other way, you have to stand your ground.

The nicey-nice denial of adults about how savage and harmful children can be to each other is so destructive.

It must feel good to him to know his mother believes him. And this way, he won't become "whiney", he'll just learn that with some people, you can tell the truth and be believed. Even if not everyone, it's planting a healthy belief...

Good mothering!

kudos,
Hops

[ann3]

Hi SS:

But boy did I have an insight into what it was like as a child telling people that someone (my mother) had been mean.  Noone would listen.

Paging Alice Miller!!!!!!!!!     That was a lesson in Gas lighting & denial for you, your son & your inner child (& maybe your son's future inner child!!!!).  Wow, an invaluable,painful, sobering, insightful & conscious lesson & experience.  The empathy you feel for your son and validation you gave him is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!  Right On, Mama!!!!!!  Living in the moment allows us to be consciously insightful.

Up until that point, if I had a problem I could go to my grandfather and he would get it taken care of. 
All of a sudden I had noone to turn to and problems began amassing.....alone with a family falling apart, and for the very first time in my life with absolutely noone to turn to.

Re: your dream, I will repeat myself:  I think your insights into your dream are invaluable, painful, sobering & conscious.
 
As I see it, it's not an issue of your socio-economics, but rather that your dad had been a 'big man' in the outer community, but was emotionally distant & unsupportive of you, his daughter, which is so typically N:  Ns look good to outsiders, but they often suck when it comes to their nearest & dearest, whatever their socio-economics.  I mean, if he hadn't been Fortune 500, perhaps he would have been Chief Raccoon/Grand Poobah of the local Elks club, but he would still be emotionally MIA towards you & unsupportive of you.  Is that what you meant?

Assuming that's what you meant, you had an emotionally empathetic & supportive relationship w/ your grandfather & after he died, you no longer had any emotionally empathetic & supportive relationship.  ZAP!, your emotionally empathetic & supportive relationship vanished & you could not find anyone to replace it & your dad certainly couldn't be an emotionally empathetic & supportive substitute because he's an N. 

And,on top of it all, your NF starts decompossing at the same time you lose your GF & you move home after your divorce:  the perfect storm- all sh*t hits at once and you've been raised by Ns, so you have almost no faith in yourself (did you even have a 'self'?), you're tortured by self doubt, anger, grief,loss, shame,self judgment, self hate, etc.    If I'm reading/projecting your situation accurately, IMO, the feeling of overwhelming powerlessness would be a normal reaction, especially for someone raised by Ns.

IMO, when we are raised by Ns, it's very, very hard to feel, see that we CAN have power.  I suppose this feeling of powerlessness is a corollary of being voiceless.  We've been raised to believe we have no power, no voice BECAUSE our powerlessness/voicelessness suits & serves our NPs.  They didn't/don't want us to have power or a voice, because if we had power or a voice, then we wouldn't serve them by being their N supply.  The Mad Scientist doesn't want the zombie to have power or a voice, because if the zombie had those things, the zombie would no longer be a zombie.  And, a non-zombie won't serve his master.

I was bitter and angry.  Noone in their right mind would be reaching out but that powerlessness and rejection and alienation has left me with no sense of being able to get back on my feet and that is not true.  
Sooooooo cool that you see this.  You now understand the perceptions & feelings that you had, but now, you see that you can get your power back.  Like Dorothy, she always had the power to go home, but she didn't know it, didn't realize it.

This insight will help open the way to clear this detrius away.   Oh, yes, I hear the vacuum humming already, detrius, be gone!

My son's experience gave me an opportunity to help him understand that he must trust himself even when adults dismiss him.    Yes, teach him assertiveness and the difference between assertiveness vs. aggression.

That, I pray, will help him retain his power.  I know you will and you will also retain your power.

SS, as you can see, I'm working out my thoughts & issues right there with ya.  Thank you so much for that opprtunity.

love to you,
xoxox,
ann

[seasons]

Not me.  I told him that the boy was mean to him.  But boy did I have an insight into what it was like as a child telling people that someone (my mother) had been mean.  Noone would listen. 

 Your son is blessed to have "YOU", to see, hear, and powerfully speak the truth.

 I wish they listened like you ((SS)).

 (((SS and your dear son)))

[Gaining Strength]

it's taken me a very long time to begin to address the issues raised in this thread.  They are complicated and difficult to unearth. 

some of my struggle is indeed tied to socio-economic issues and those issues are very touchy.  I have lived inside the world of wealth and I have lived out side of it. There are different methods of functioning within and without and it is easier to adapt to those within the walls of wealth rather than without.  The rules and the expectations and the values are very, very different.

The world I grew up in actually decried women developing professionally and becoming powerful in their own right.  It was without a doubt a man's world, a white man's world.  The powerful women in our community were powerful via their leadership roles in the Jr. League and later their work in the charitble community.  They handled large amounts of money through foundations and had power in that way but were not involved in other issues.  For the most part their money came from husbands and fathers.  Hidden strings were attaching in varying degrees.  The real power was rarely evident.  The real power was held by the lawyers, financial men and top level business leaders.  Incompetents among their ilk were supported by their back room, country club buddies.  Outsiders rose to power because of entre to fortunes a la the American Way but they were "tolerated" rather than on the inside.

 This whole scenario, while still functioning in my hometown, is denied and hidden and is never as one-dimensional as I describe.  Part of the problem for me was that I always bucked the system holding on to these quaint, self-righteous virtues completely unaware of this hidden system and rules that governed the real power.  Once the money chain was severed and the illusion of power was revealed then a huge hole opened up and I fell in. 

The insanity happened because I thought I was functioning in one system or rules, the one that I was overtly taught while in fact I was functioning in yet another - the one I would have to figure out on my own and the one that I railed about as though when people recognized the inequities that were in fact at work they would become enraged as well and step up to the plate and make corrections. What a joke - the louder I protested the deeper the hole I fell in and, playing according to the rules I had been overtly taught, I kept waiting, passively by, for my due rescue.  I knew I would be rescued b/c I was due a rescue based on my place that I was born into.  I didn't get the rules.  The rules that I had been raised under were all a fallicy.  Word to SS - There is white knight coming to pluck you out of the abyss.  You better find your own way out.

I've got lessons to learn from the Michael Phelps and the Dara Torres and the Donny Deutchs of this world.  It's time to get to work scraping and scrambling and climbing my own way out.  There will be no hand outs and if there are I don't want them.  It's time to sever my emotional responses to all that is past.  Not in an N, dictator, tyranical way but in a transcendant way such as Dali Llama.

It is time to fight, time to move beyond, time to stop "figuring" it all out and act - to push through the unbearable pain and sacrifice toward achievement.

[Sela]

Hello SS,

I can relate to so much of what you are talking about here.  Even though I did not grow up in the same wealth and power groupie/s you describe.  I think the same message can be ingrained no matter, as long as the sender/s do it right (which N's are expert at eh?).

The insanity happened because I thought I was functioning in one system or rules, the one that I was overtly taught while in fact I was functioning in yet another - the one I would have to figure out on my own and the one that I railed about as though when people recognized the inequities that were in fact at work they would become enraged as well and step up to the plate and make corrections.

I think this transcends socioeconomic borders and can happen in all kinds of places whether rich or poor conditions.  Maybe it's just part of growing up in a chaos?

Some people shrink/try to conform rather than "rally", (which is understandable as the whole thing is frightening for any child), yet I think you have an advantage that you may not have realized.  It seems you've used your courage and become a fighter and that has helped you to survive and thrive.  Even though, on some level you thought you wanted a white knight to come and rescue you, your fighting spirit has managed to propel you forward without that wonderful relief.   You have not lost your power, SS, imo.  It's a work in progress.

So even though you say:  "It's time to fight", I think you've been fighting all along and doing a better job than you might be aware of.   It sounds like you've been pushing through the pain toward achievement all along but now......you are able to put the experience into words!  You did it when you went to your grandfather for help with problems (which showed your desire to overcome......your refusal to remain helpless) and you're doing it now by posting your insights and trying to make sense of it all.

Deep down, maybe a lot of people wish for a strong saviour to rescue them?  Ultimately, those who manage to keep going it alone are the ones who are truly the most powerful (because the power comes from within)...maybe?

Hope this makes sense.

Sela

edited because I signed my name twice and there's only one of me ( )