Author Topic: Thoughts on self-sabotage  (Read 5528 times)

sKePTiKal

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Re: Thoughts on self-sabotage
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2008, 10:29:26 AM »
Axa:

Quote
I cannot bear to recognise that the Ns in my life were wrong.

This is important, Axa - this realization and the statement of it. Perhaps, the mechanics of self-sabotage is simply us going out of our way to try to make those N's "right".... about us. We make ourselves what we are not for any number of reasons: fear of more abuse, mostly.

This, for me, was a defense tactic that got out of control. I used it where I didn't need to. Applied it to situations, where it wasn't necessary.

I was so, so, so afraid that if I believed in my real self - that my mother would come after me emotionally again accusing me of thinking I was better than her and rubbing it in - only because I was proud of myself and my accomplishments. So I protected her feelings by pretending to believe the projective identification - the (excuse the word) bullshit - that she told me I was. My situation was so extreme, that I simply wasn't permitted to feel my real feelings about what had happened back in 68-69. I wasn't ALLOWED to be me. I wasn't allowed to believe that I was any different than my mother... and what she said I was.

It was the uncertainty - could she be right??? - that was the worst. The emotional and psychic state I was in made me vulnerable to this fear. And without feedback from other adults - the emotional isolation that was simultaneously familiar & comforting and a shrinking prison - I had a hard time coming up with "evidence" to "prove" that she was wrong.  Proving she was wrong was a huge risk, in any case - very dangerous, emotionally, for me.

Just had another example of this, with yesterday's phone call. She's somehow convinced herself that dogs shouldn't have protein because it causes bladder/kidney stones... so now, Iams dog food is "bad" because it's high in protein. I tried to explain that if it was so "bad", why are vets recommending it??? Don't dogs - canines in the wild - survive solely on protein? And then I saw it:

the same old trap. I was trying to prove she was wrong; she was irrationally clinging to her premise - and simply wasn't hearing me. I would only become frustrated & angry if I continued.... and then, I'd be proving her "right" about me, once again. I let it drop - and the surprising thing is, that this took the wind completely out of her sails. She changed the subject and went on to other irrational beliefs - but she did it without my participation. And gave up within minutes.

Because I wouldn't "play" the "game" with her anymore. My boundary becomes not rewarding her crazy ideas, her "ain't it awful" observations about my SIL - which aren't true; more projection I think; and also protecting myself by not indulging in the emotional sabotage - getting upset - because her delusions are simply not my fault or responsibility.

When we are allowed to have boundaries - and to maintain & enforce them... then it's not necessary to prove the N's right anymore. Because we are safe... and aren't so easily harmed, affected; vulnerable... anymore... and it's no longer necessary to "do it to ourselves" - maintain those unhealthy, incorrect, and untrue beliefs about ourselves.

Still thinking; more to see about this.

(James: thanks for your thoughts - but having already explored the symbolism of using cigarettes as the "mom" I needed a year or more ago... that's not the "answer" for me. Understand - I KNEW my mom was crazy and I FEARED her attention and care.)
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Gaining Strength

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Re: Thoughts on self-sabotage
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2008, 12:29:10 PM »
I have not been able to read much of this valuable thread - way too painful.  But I was working on some stuff this morning and had an insight that fit under this topic. 

I realized that some of my self-sabotage is an unconscious pattern that was established out of a need for love and attention.  The only thing that got praise in my extended family was success and that success seemed beyond my ability so I hoped and longed for help for my floundering.  Help to me was the same as attention which =ed love.  I couldn't get any of it - except negative attention.  I needed help which was never going to come.  I got stuck in needing help.  Help and love were the same.

Stuck in self-sabotage waiting for help (love) to set me free - the rescue syndrome.  Self-sabotage is like saying, no screaming, "Help me!  I need help.  Someone help me!!!"  As though being successful will doom me to certain aloneness - self-sufficient means needs no help and therefore, because help means love, being self-sufficient (successful) means being alone, without love.  Yuck.

All so convoluted, twisted and painful.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 10:51:34 AM by Gaining Strength »

sKePTiKal

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Re: Thoughts on self-sabotage
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2008, 01:30:25 PM »
Ouch, GS....!!  Yes, it's painful. And there are as many reasons for self-sabotage, as there are "us". (Forgive my use of "we" in the above post(s)... it's just lazy speaking/thinking; I know full well there are many shades to this one issue.)

One thing I know for sure, is that self-sabotage is a closed-loop cycle. a.) happens which triggers b.) thought or emotion and then reaction c.) occurs. At the beginning of my journey, this was as unconscious as gjazz and you have discussed. More than anything else, it was self-sabotage that I've been struggling to break free of all this time...

in my self-image
in my self-trust/self-respect
in my self committments
in my habits - whether physical, intellectual or emotional.

What I've been trying to notice, are the points in this closed-loop where a small change in my self can break the loop... because that's all I can control: my self.

I'm not carrying around a secret or subconscious wish to edit my real parents anymore. But, I'm still susceptible to these patterns of relating to myself - the old habits. Contact with my mom triggers it - and fear/anxiety - for sure. But, I'm seeing that she's not powerful/fearful at all - unless I give up normal boundaries. One thing that's having that slow, imperceptible affect on breaking the loop is to not allow myself to think the old abusive thoughts; to counter each of those old emotions with self-parenting... what I'd say & do for myself, if "I" was one of my own daughters.

The other thing, is the old habit of resentment - especially for my mom. This is one my most useless, self-destructive, and pointless habits. It's improved a LOT... but I still notice traces of it. Resentment is anger/blame turned on myself - because being angry at my mom is so fruitless; she doesn't acknowledge, understand, or even remember. I can't change my mom - no matter how intense my emotion or brilliant my tirade and logic ... the only thing I can do is let go of this emotion; be free of it - change my self.

and so far, the only thing that works here, for me - is to say to myself: this is a boundary. I won't let that old pattern re-occur. I'll be safe behind my boundary. Whatever is triggering that resentment, I'm beginning to see... is someplace that's sensitive, because of past boundary violations. As the resentment (and fear) goes: so goes the unconscious smoking. I begin to actually FEEL that it's a non-issue... has no control over me... is a thing (addiction) unto itself; and I can separate it from ME. Only Step 1, but the most important one.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Gaining Strength

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Re: Thoughts on self-sabotage
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2008, 01:52:30 PM »
Oh my gosh - PR.  I so identify with the closed loop.  I have been working on the self-sabotage issue today and so clearly recognized and bumped up against the closed loop again and again.  I also completely connect with the resentment.

I haven't found the holes in the loop yet but that seems to be very important to breaking the cycle.

Thanks for this thread.  It is a very painful thread for me and extremely difficult to read - that tells me a lot!!!

PS - Self-sabotage is somehow connected for me to a need for connection - a need to get the love and assistance that I needed as a child.  I think when I make this connection I will begin to break this block.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 01:58:34 PM by Gaining Strength »

sKePTiKal

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Re: Thoughts on self-sabotage
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2008, 10:21:08 AM »
Something happened this morning, that I think - not sure yet - might be my final breakthrough on this topic. More on that later.

I decided I don't know enough about self-sabotage - especially the motivations, the reasons - people do this to themselves. So, google & I are going to spend some time today looking for useful ways of thinking about this topic. This bit, boils it down to 3 separate, but linked things that function together...

In The One Minute Millionaire, authors Hansen and Allen state that in order for success to be achieved one must establish congruence. Congruence is when things come into alignment, but not just arbitrary things, three very specific things. First, your desire...you have to want it. Second, your belief...you have to believe (have faith) that you can get it. Lastly, self-acceptance... you have to know and feel that you deserve to have it.

They sound simple, and it's easy to understand the reasoning behind them, but this is why so much self-sabotage occurs. One thinks that they're in alignment, while suppressing a tiny niggling fear or question of doubt. Just one such doubt or a wishy-washy thought on one of any of the three key areas is enough to de-rail your success.

So how does one overcome the doubts and defeat self-sabotage?

When Desire is Your Nemesis
Explore if you've really bought-in to your goal. Is it your goal or someone else's? Will it make you happy, or are you trying to fulfill an obligation, taking an easy way out, or just not feeling 100% about it? A classic example of this is when a son or daughter follows a career path to please a parent, even though they'd prefer to do something different. Make sure your goal is truly your heart's desire.

Do you really believe that?
Wanting a goal and believing that you can actually achieve the goal are as different as night and day. Many people want success, but how many really believe that they can become the next Donald Trump or Bill Gates? It's not lack of desire, but lack of belief. Perhaps they are not sure how to proceed with the goal, or are unable to see how to afford the education to get started, or think they don't know the right people to contact. Whichever the case, these scenarios all work to weaken the belief system. Work on confidence building and add tools to your arsenal to combat limiting beliefs. If you approach your goal from what you DO have instead of what you think you don't have a positive shift will occur.

But am I Really Worthy?Do you ask yourself if you're worthy to succeed? Many people compare themselves to the previous generation. "My parents had a very small home and only one car. My spouse and I have a 3,000 sq. ft. home, two cars, 1 or 2 incomes, and a boat, so we should be happy." Why? Should you be happy with less than you could achieve simply because it is more than others have? Only you can answer that question for yourself. Perhaps there is an underlying belief that wealth is the equivalent to greed? If you don't believe that you deserve to have success and everything that comes with it, success will remain elusive.

CongruenceCongruence is the key to reaching all of your goals successfully, whether they are goals of career, personal growth, or love. Triumph stems from your inner perceptions. Getting to know yourself honestly and wholly can unlock the doors to the happiness and success that until now, you've only dreamed about.
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<Amber: Jackpot! I found this next website which provides a list of questions, to help us address - face - our personal sabotaging strategies. I'm copying the questions below and will post a link to the page. Here's the gist of a way to understand attachment to self-sabotage:

We derive some benefit from our seemingly troubling behavior. That is, "symptoms" or "issues" can be construed as both "maladaptive" and "adaptive". At first glance, symptoms look maladaptive, but closer scrutiny reveals that in some way, the individual "benefits" from them. That is, in some way the individual is protected by her "symptoms". In effect, the "symptoms" represent a solution to a problem, albeit a far-from-ideal solution. >

Worksheet for Conceptualizing "Symptoms":
Maladaptive Aspects

Describe a longstanding difficulty with which you have struggled. Describe the ways in which it is maladaptive. How does this difficulty hurt you or hold you back or make you unhappy? What is its impact on your relationships at work, at home, and socially?

Have you attempted to change this difficulty? If not, why not? If so, describe the nature of your efforts?

In what ways have your efforts been successful? If they have been unsuccessful, why?

In what ways have your efforts been thwarted? How were they sabotaged?


Worksheet for Conceptualizing Symptoms:
Adaptive Aspects

Now focus on the adaptive aspects of the longstanding difficulty. As strange as these questions seem, try to answer them.

How is this difficulty adaptive? What are the benefits? Who are the beneficiaries? That is, how might lovers, friends, family, and coworkers benefit from it? How might you benefit from it?

What aspects of yourself does it allow you to avoid?

Who would experience a loss if the "symptom" were eliminated? Describe the loss. What would its impact be?

How would you be forced to grow and mature if the "symptom" were eliminated? That is, in what ways would you be forced out of your comfort zone?

How would others be forced to grow and mature if the "symptom" were eliminated? How would they be helped or hurt by the elimination of your symptom?

If you achieve your goal or eliminate your symptom, how would your life be different? Would it be more populated with people? More isolated? Busier? More lonely? More leisurely?

How would your lifestyle change?

How would your friendships be affected?

How would key people in your life react? Would they be pleased? Would they be envious? A bit of both?

What would your parents think about it (answer this even if they are no longer alive).

If you are partnered, what would your partner think about it? How would your partner feel about it?

What would your children think about it? How would they feel about it? How would they be affected?

As a function of this change, who would be more likely to enter your life? Who might leave it?

What difficult or frightening situations would you have to confront?

How can these "symptoms" be overcome and mastered?

<Amber again: OK... s'nuff for now... I gotta go think about this list of questions and feel where things "fit"...>
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

sKePTiKal

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Re: Thoughts on self-sabotage
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2008, 11:52:57 AM »
This may seem completely unrelated to the list of questions..... but I think my experience this morning will put it into perspective. I STILL don't have the luxury to time to spill the beans about what's going on... just yet.
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To forgive means simply that you refuse to keep hating someone. In practical terms, this refusal to hate is a conscious decision, from the depths of your heart, to give up your desire to feel the satisfaction of knowing that the one who caused your hurt will get hurt in the end. Notice here that the silent, secret desire for satisfaction keeps unconscious anger alive and growing and prevents genuine forgiveness.

Repetition refers to an unconscious process by which you essentially lead yourself into trouble over and over. For some dark, unknown reason, you so despise yourself that you continually put yourself at risk. And the failure to accept that this unconscious process has you trapped in its clutches leads to “victim” anger.

And what strange satisfaction maintains all this self-destruction? Well, it’s the satisfaction of unconsciously hoping to show the world how wrong it is. Like Hamlet holding a mirror up to his mother,[5] the person trapped in victim anger will hold up his own destruction as “evidence” that, he hopes, will condemn the world.

Thus you might hear someone saying, “So what if I get cancer from smoking? Maybe it will serve them right. Then they will see how much I had to suffer.” And so this unfortunate life will end, just like Hamlet, cluttered with death and destruction.

But unlike a martyr, who lays down his or her life out of pure love, this self-destruction has its deep motivation in bitterness and hatred, and an obstinate rejection of forgiveness.


When dealing with the “victim” anger of repetition, therefore, your only hope is to first resolve the repetition that traps you. You can’t forgive others if the real problem is yourself. How can you accept the ugly part of human nature if you can’t see it in yourself and if you can’t accept your personal responsibility for constantly placing yourself at risk? If you don’t recognize the repetition, all the king’s horses and all the king’s men—and all the anger management classes in the world—won’t save you from your own unconscious efforts to destroy yourself as you remain locked in the dark identity of being a “victim.”
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Gaining Strength

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Re: Thoughts on self-sabotage
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2008, 01:59:31 PM »
Very profound stuff PR.  I have only scanned it for now but am looking forward to reading it thoroughly several times later today.  I have broken through one more layer of understanding what has been part of the self-sabotage mechanism for me.  I wrote about it on Today's Hurdles. 

I simply need to say how greatful I am for this thread and for all the things posted here.  It is such a gift to walk, crawl and cry on this journey with others.  I have lived this wretched life alone so long but this healing path has been populated with such heros and heroines as I have found here.  Thank you - GS

sKePTiKal

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Re: Thoughts on self-sabotage
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2008, 02:29:05 PM »
I'm still processing all this myself, GS...
mostly in the light of today's discovery for me. Some of what I found interesting in my search applies to me; some doesn't. Some does to a smaller/greater degree...depending on the work I've done previously...

still "trying on" these ideas and deciding how well they "fit". I'm sure that this another round on the "circle" of healing; I've been here and worked with these ideas before... like I told James (maybe too quickly): I've dealt with that old anger... no treasure left to be mined there. I'm not sure at the moment that I was correct.

It pays for me to take the time, to see how this settles in with me, before speaking too soon; too prematurely and having to eat my words; take them back... because I was only seeing part of the picture.

There IS one more piece to add to the idea-stew: something I've grown increasingly aware of lately. Despite all my work and progress, to date - I still notice a tendency to be hypersensitive to external stimuli... and that my emotional serenity is too easily affected by external stuff. It's not nearly as debilitating as it once was - but it's still there. And it's more emotional than I thought... an emotional HABIT - rather than a valid emotion...

like a tendency to immediately catastrophize, jump to worst-case scenarios, make mountains out of molehills, or see the glass momentarily as half-empty instead of half-full.

like a tendency to pull within myself, like a turtle into it's shell.

And what I've noticed is that this habit is changing - in ways I'm just barely aware of. It's changing without conscious intent or effort.

Somehow all this stuff today is getting blended into "congruent" soup... some things, still, to face myself about - and can't do it right this moment. Impatient, I am.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

sKePTiKal

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Re: Thoughts on self-sabotage
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2008, 10:00:55 AM »
http://www.guidetopsychology.com/anger.htm

I just needed to post - for reference - the link to the page that I excerpted in my last post... about victim anger, revenge, etc. There was LOTS to read on this page... some I've seen before... like the victim-anger stuff that Lise used to post. Still digesting...

There's been one big clarification, so far. I've always wondered why I was so desperate to quit smoking - and simultaneously, clinging to it - seemingly for life itself. What a contradiction, you know? And each separate motivator seemed equally strong.

I think it's because Twiggy and I - for much longer, than I've been actively healing - had our own separate emotions. Twiggy's emotions were unconscious to me, for so long. I've been assuming all along, that our emotions would be identical; that assumption, I now believe to not be the case completely. And from this perspective, I'm able to more clearly see what it is that Twiggy has been hanging on to - and needs to let go.

More on that soon...
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

axa

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Re: Thoughts on self-sabotage
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2008, 11:40:01 AM »
Phoenix,

I read your last post and it made me feel so profoundly sad, I don't know why, I have no words other than I am overwhelmed with sadness.

axa

Gaining Strength

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Re: Thoughts on self-sabotage
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2008, 01:49:11 PM »
Axa - is that sadness for you or for Phoenix Rising?  (You needn't answer here but I thought the question might help you get some clarity - if not - just toss - your friend - GS.)

Gaining Strength

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Re: Thoughts on self-sabotage
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2008, 01:52:14 PM »
Just wanting to share -

I am not able to even read this significant thread.  I know that I have a block for 2 reasons: 1) it hits the nail on the head and it TOO much to take in and 2) I have been gaining significant insights and making big shifts and that makes this very important stuff overwhelming as well. 

(Hope I have the courage to delve in when I have the internal strength.  I so know that it is on point for me.)

Can't thank you enough PR for this remarkable thread - GS.

sKePTiKal

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Re: Thoughts on self-sabotage
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2008, 03:32:35 PM »
Ah, GS... no apology needed! I do understand. I fear I might've been less than "plain & simple" in expressing myself, too.
My process is a bit weird; I'm able to take in multiple inputs - ideas, realizations, etc - and then synthesize them into an understanding. It's not at all linear... and the "processing" of the understanding takes place on a lot of different levels.

Each of the things I posted "hits" an emotional or self-perception target that begins to adjust. Those targets do their own processing, reframing, growing - or not. "I" have to let them do their thing and be patient. For the duration - that means "I" am uncertain; my whole reality gets jiggled and shook up; and then, over time... things settle back into place in a "new" order. It's after the settling in that I'm finally able to see things in the new pattern and communicate simply again.

Axa: does it help to know that for me, it's not sad at all? I see it as the first REAL progress - not just mental posturing, trying on new ideas about myself - on this issue, that I've made to date. For me, it's exciting... the "end" of this wretched, boring self-sabotage loop is in sight.
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It was reality-shattering to realize that I was presuming too much, to think that my unconscious feelings were the same as my conscious ones. Reality-shattering and HELPFUL. Somewhere, either my unconscious self - Twiggy - or I were hanging on to something for dear life... and this something was malevolent... the hanging on kept the loop of self-sabotage active.

I had spent a long time processing anger. Intense anger. Dealing with the hurt, too. Like I told James... I "thought" I was done with this. But something powerful enough to keep me locked into self-sabotage was still at work.

I distinctly felt something release - emotionally - out of that loop during my dad's funeral. Something of the old feelings. Long story short: I hadn't fully acknowledged the pain/anger of his abandonment of us. Leaving us behind to endure my mother. I lived in the hopes - faithfully waiting - to be rescued someday. But I was STILL angry at him; disillusioned at his behavior. He'd been my hero for so long - and I was angry at him, for his behavior and my inability to reconcile his shameful acts with that level of dependence and idealization; I was angry at having my fantasy of him shattered permanently.

Angry enough, that I adopted his bad habits... to plague my mother... "you're just like your dad" (you ain't seen anything yet, mom....) and to make it completely, undeniably clear to my dad... that I could be just like him - if not go him one better. But, he still didn't care. His N-fixation was my brother. (Poor brother...)

This kind of anger fused into a fixation on revenge: hurt them, as much as I was hurt. THAT'S what is really holding the loop of self-sabotage together, emotionally. That, and plain old pavlovian repetition. Anything repeated often enough, becomes "normal" and familiar - the safe zone of self-sabotage.

But, it wasn't "me" that was angry - it was Twiggy; all this anger was unconscious. Remember: she was 12-13 at the time. Sure, she's healed a lot of things. (Yes, if she'd had access to a wise, caring parent - or other helpful adult - it could've been resolved at the time. It wasn't.) Even the anger has dwindled to a tiny spark... but there was this awful thing that she still wouldn't admit - danced around it forever - and it was this idea of revenge. Her phrase was: "Patience my ass, I wanna kill something!"

One more thing: Twiggy blamed herself for making herself an available target for the rapist. She never would answer me, when I asked if she was smoking at the time. I put it together like this: she was already smoking the occasional butt; it was a requirement of hanging out with the older kids her mom pushed her off on... but she was carefully limiting how many puffs... tracking them. Making a single cigarette last a week, if she could.

She'd already been traumatized by the fight; rejecting her dad with words and deeds; and then the terrorizing phone call. When she went out to Dad's truck to get the gun to hide it - there were cigarettes on the dash. Twiggy was so rattled she couldn't think. So she bought into the propaganda; the brainwashing encouragement to smoke - thinking it would calm her nerves. She'd never been in this state before. She needed something to settle her nerves; calm her down. And of course: the rush of nicotine from a whole cigarette affected all her senses - and she didn't hear the rapist before she could escape back into the house...

... so she blamed herself for being stupid; for smoking; for making herself an easy target. But of course, she couldn't tell anyone THAT part of the story, could she? Then, she'd REALLY be in trouble. And in the slippery, slidey, crazy months after - with dissociation, being drugged, gaslighted - she took on all the blame & shame for everything... because she knew she was bad - deep down - it was a sin, wasn't it? - to want murderous revenge on the rapist, to want to hurt the parents who weren't parents at all to her... "look what you made me do"... it's all your fault that I'm out here smoking...

... that was such a big secret, that she wouldn't even tell ME... and it's why she couldn't let go of smoking, even tho' she agreed that it was time to quit. Even after I realized, that the feelings of addiction weren't ME... there was still this strong NO - resistance to even trying...

As long as she tried to blame someone else for smoking - and not realize that even THEN, she was addicted and didn't know it... as long as she thinks it's necessary to blame ANYONE for that sad, sad situation and clings to fantasies of revenge and control  ("I'll make you care - even if I kill myself") through this method...

Twiggy's trapped in the loop.

So, working on letting go the need for revenge. The blame-game. Reinforcing that only SHE was responsible for giving in to the addiction; only she can STOP. And I know she can stop.... and it feels good to stop. But it's going to take Twiggy & me TOGETHER to conquer the tricks of addiction; the seductive whispers/lies about how much we "need" nicotine...

... and this work has to take place within a time-frame. I've imposed a deadline. Rest of this week and next week. Whatever has to happen... CAN happen in that time. And it's because I care about Twiggy a lot; because I want to rescue her from her own misunderstandings, the lies/delusions that she thought were normal and I believe in her strength... that I can set and enforce this deadline.

Finally.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Gaining Strength

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Re: Thoughts on self-sabotage
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2008, 11:05:25 AM »
Whew.  I have finally had the strength to begin to work through this thread.  Right time, right topic.  This is the break-through issue for me.  What you Phoenix Rising and Hops, and Gjazz and Axa and CB have written feels like a group of good, strong, kind, committed friends sitting around a room brain-storming on one of the most critical issues of the day.  This is a very comfortable feeling - to be working on this with you all.  I feel strengthened by your presence and by being included in this group and this conversation.  It feels empowering. Just the opposite of self-sabotage.  That is very interesting to me.  Wonder why this feels so powerful - just the opposite of powerless.  Something important here for me.

Anyway.  I have worked my way through the first page and a half before I had to rest.  I have been extracting the meat, the essence out of the posts and patching together a page for myself so that I can distill the very core of what I connect with on this subject of self-sabotage.

I intend to crack this self-sabotage nut wide open, turning it inside out in order to release my true power and get on my path to self-actualizing.  I intend to manifest a self-actualizing me in the coming weeks. 

I have more work to do here - on this thread and am thankful to have such remarkable people to do it with.  thanks to you all. Your friend - Gaining Strength (each and every day.)

*****
Oh my gosh PR - you are going so fast and furiously.  I cannot keep up and you are not even posting.  I am still back on post #20.  So much incredibly good stuff.  You must be on warp speed.  OKAY - here is what I got, distilled down from so much good stuff - in your own words is the kernel of my imprisonment -  Lastly, self-acceptance... you have to know and feel that you deserve to have it. and Perhaps, the mechanics of self-sabotage is simply us going out of our way to try to make those N's "right".... about us.  The N message loud and clear for me is that I did not and DO not deserve those things I want.  They made this clear from day one and I have unconsciously decided - out of "love" to make them right!!! - Whew! that is incredible stuff.  Nothing new and yet the whole thing new.  I am very, very excited about this and profoundly thankful to you PR for doing this and to Axa and the others for bringing so much to the table.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 11:21:46 AM by Gaining Strength »

sKePTiKal

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Re: Thoughts on self-sabotage
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2008, 12:01:00 PM »
So we'll put the tea kettle on, put our feet up, and mull this over - together!  :D

Couple things I know, now...

Each of us has their own unique, special (or warped) form of self-sabotage... not everything written, applies to everyone - at least, not to the same degree, anyway.

The other thing, is that I'm on fire with this... impatience is driving me... there is URGENCY coming from somewhere within that I MUST dive in head-first, tackle this issue head-on, confront/face myself as honestly I can - especially emotionally, and once and for all put this old prison of self-sabotage in the trash-can; it's hazardous waste and shouldn't be recycled. It's like a race between me and the self-sabotage "scripts". I need to win, this time.

I tend to digress back into my "story" again... working through this. I'm going to try to fight that temptation, except if someone asks for an example. It takes up space, takes time to write... and like I said above: that much - the story - is unique to me... won't necessarily apply to anyone else. That's not to say, though... that there aren't common mechanisms at work... maybe as a group we can strip those mechanisms nekkid, and reveal them for the pathetic (yet oh, so powerful) things they are.

At work, for me personally, in my self-sabotage are:

1 - misunderstandings or distortions of reality (i.e., ignorance born of lack of parenting)
2 - projective identification (mom) and self-blame; self-shame; shifting of emotions/memory to unconscious - anger, in particular coupled with an all-consuming NEED for justice and validation (not quite revenge; but close enough for the time-being).
3 - Parentification and denial of my own emotions/needs
4 - Self-punishment as a form of defensive disguise - see number 2
5 - accepting the abuse meted out daily - the emotional/intellectual programming of my self-image - as a form of defense
6 - self-denial (denial of "self") as a form of avoiding abuse
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.