Thoughts on self-sabotage

[sKePTiKal]

This topic keeps coming up in relation to other things, in several threads. I thought I'd start a place to tackle this head on, to isolate it from other topics (as much as that's possible), to really get at the why and how of the mechanisms of this debilitating remnant from the past. I can only talk about my experience with it - so everyone, please join in - again, no rights or wrongs here; it is different for everyone.

For me:
self-sabotage happened in lots of ways - choosing N boyfriends/husbands, belitting my abilities to the point of not even trying to do something I wanted (art is the best example here), limiting my sphere of friends & therefore, my support, limiting my activities to prevent the normal enjoyment of life, limitation... limitation.... limitation.

Why limitation? Why such passivity? I think, for me, the answer is fear. At the most basic level - I was self-limiting my life out of a need to protect myself - fear - from being the target of envy... jealousy... and protecting SOMEONE ELSE'S feelings by not appearing to "show them up". Such is the "duck blind" I built myself to avoid abuse... the prison. To disguise myself, duck for cover. I was completely attached to this kind of sabotage, because it worked - in that situation. I feared giving it up, even long after freeing myself from abusive situations. It was comfortable, ya know? The devil I knew.

My way out of that prison, was to believe that I deserved more; that I was worth both sides of life - the light, positive, enjoyable side... and that I was capable of managing the darker side, without being disabled by it. Not pleasant - but not self-limiting, either. It took awhile to get there. Initially, I couldn't even list 10 things I wanted for myself.

The other kind of self-sabotage I used was deliberately hurtful to myself - smoking is just one; the most recalcitrant to change. This kind of self-sabotage includes even my naval-gazing period of obsessing on all the hurtful things done to me - I was forcing myself to stay with this, hoping I could squeeze out one last iota of seeing - realizing - freeing myself from feeling horrible all the time. I was drawn to it like a car accident; morbid fascination. It made me feel "special"; unique; important.

This kind of deliberately hurting myself, was my "look what you made me do" - an attempt to lay blame elsewhere for the abuse I endured and suffered under... for MY FEELINGS. It was fed by rage, helplessness & powerlessness. Once I accepted and fully owned this... the power of this kind of self-sabotage started to diminish. I had to own, manage, and take control of those feelings... after all, no one else can.

Eventually, I learned that I'd gotten all I needed from this review of memory and emotion... that it wasn't necessary to keep sticking myself in the eye with this stick... to feel better. Well, duh! right?

But this was the hardest self-sabotage to conquer. Because of the previous gems of understanding that came from it, I secretly hoped that I would find yet more "treasure". All I found was a dead-end; it was all the same stuff. So why did I do it? The pay-off was that feeling that my story somehow made me special and important. Sadly... there are many who've suffered the same and worse than I have. In fact, my story doesn't make me special - but letting it go and engaging in my life and enjoying it DOES.

So, ok........ that's where I am with this, now. How about discussion about certain, specific things... the mechanisms of self-sabotage?

[gjazz]

One, I think you are absolutely right about being driven by fear.  I KNOW that's true for me.  I know that's why I allow those tapes to run in my head: worthless, stupid, ugly, etc.  You mention smoking.  I think there are probably lots of ways we hurt ourselves physically.  I went through a period of drinking too much, until I told myself every sip was a concession to what my NF told me I was.  I also went about ten years eating barely enough food to sustain your average five-year-old.  I still isolate myself.  A good friend recently told me she'd stopped inviting me because I never attend her parties.  I know people want to come here for Halloween (I get lots of kids) and I dread it.  But I know I should invite everyone over.  But you see, after all these years, I still feel SAFEST alone.

[Hopalong]

Trauma/abuse survivors need a lot of adrenalin.

Problem with releasing the past and being present with lightness is...

sometimes
life
is
boring

Enduring THAT, transmuting it into ordinary contentment...is a challenge.

(Which I am confident, completely, you'll meet.)

xxoo
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

gjazz:

I think what you learned about alcohol can be applied to your connection with people, too. In that, by isolating yourself, you're confirming that you're (fill in the blank)... whatever you were told you were by the evil one(s)... and I'm gonna bet, that whatever you fill in that blank with - it's not true. I mean, we become something we're NOT, to survive in those abusive situations. We can learn to separate ourselves - who we are - from learned behaviors.

As far as feeling safe: that's the big why for any number of self-sabotage methods, I think.

[sKePTiKal]

Hops...

I grew up in the midwest. Think cornfields as far as the eye could see and a society 20 years behind pop culture. Boredom was the background for a lot of truly creative people that I've met over the years... there is a lot of space & freedom in boredom for me.

... and when you live years from one crisis to full-blown chaos & back, over & over... boredom starts to sound a whole lot like peace.

Remember when I posted about smoking & dopamine? I found a study that said for some, dopamine also stimulated the flight/fight response area of the brain - just like adrenalin- creating great fear. This is one way, that I think nicotine addiction was able to create such fear about stopping, for me. (am I saying my brain is scrambled?? maybe.) Smoking itself, created the "fear"... which was just a disguise for addiction.

I wonder about adrenalin-junkies... and whether we can actually grow to LIKE those chaotic, crisis times... and when things finally calm down... if we don't feel that something is "missing" - hence the self-fulfilling prophecy effect... or people who create their own crises... I used to be one of those people.

[gjazz]

I think there are a couple things at play in terms of isolating: one, I am a bona-fide introvert.  Meaning, being around people drains me of energy rather than re-energizes me, and many of my friends are extroverts.  I don't necessarily come across as introverted--I know that.  So they just don't understand how socializing exhausts me.  Plus, I had years where professionally I was required to be out several nights a week, which drove me into another life altogether.  I despise small talk, and don't want to have to prove myself in witty little conversations over and over.  NOT that anyone's asking me to, any more at least, it's that thing in my head: never good enough, be smarter, be funnier, be thinner, be prettier, be be be.  I know it's there and I should overcome that, rather than retreating.  It's hard, though, when I do my best work, and generally feel peaceful and content when alone.  Sure it gets lonely at times.  I think about dating again sometimes.  But it would take a pretty independent sort of man, and a very honest one.

[sKePTiKal]

gjazz:

OK, I know what you mean about being drained in some situations. I agree wholeheartedly. I'm protective of my "down time" and my solitude - which is a positive thing for me. Sounds like it is for you, too.

[gjazz]

Yes, but I do believe I've let it get "too easy."  I think I've let myself take the less scary road, even when I'd have been happier reaching out.  So I must adjust.

[James]

Phoenix...I am only going to make a few comments on your experience of smoking and the difficulty of quitting. Smoking like so many addictions that are bad for the body serve a no of functions. Smoking could be the acting out of different unconscious scenarios for different individuals based on their particular experiences. The most obvious to me is that smoking is the acting out of being hated as an infant or child as the addiction hurts the smoker in a similar but symbolic way. Another component may very well be an old unconscious need which has been perverted. For instance what comes to mind is the need for a mothers love that never came. Without any conscious awareness the smoker tries to fill this old unmet need for love and the repetitive action is indicative of the failure of this method, as it needs to be done over and over, b/c the symbolic action can never satisfy any unmet need. The real need has to be felt to be resolved. The struggle to quit, because of health reasons, becomes almost irrelevant to the very powerful forces of repressed unmet needs.They will NEVER go away until they are felt consciously. It's a perfect replay in this respect. We know also at the same time smoking numbs ones feelings and of course this will  include the deep pain we feel. If the real pain/need can be felt consciously, and then finally understood consciously, we can understand finally that we are in the present and not continue to function blindly in the past. For many the addiction loses it's grip over time and they cease smoking without much effort....James

[axa]

Dear Phoenix,

I have not been online for a while and this is the first thread I have read.  It is so familiar it is scary.  At present I am looking at the job market and am so aware that the jobs I am drawn to are not ones that interest me, but ones that I am overqualified for.  I feel unable to apply for anything that would stretch me, though I know (somewhere) I have the abilitiy to do these jobs.  I experience an overwhelming sense of fear - the fear that I will be found out, which of course covers the belief that I am not able to do it.  In fact I have a voice in my head that says "you are not capable of doing anything"  I am a very responsible person and this links in with feelings of whatever job I get I will be trapped in it.  Then the panic rises, the thought of not being able to escape terrifies me.  Of course rationally, I know that this is all nonsense.  I don't have to stay anywhere I don't want but I can't seem to get past it.

Gjazz, as far as isolation is concerned this is something I feel also.  I have many friends but am drawn to isolation: it is a safe place.  I actively work at moving past this place and usually enjoy myself when I get out and meet people but my ability to trust others hardly exists.  I had an experience lately, I went to a dance workshop for a day.  It was fun and the music, atmosphere etc was lovely.  I danced with a nice man who said a number of times to me "Trust the music, trust that I can lead and it will be easier"  I just found it so difficult, it felt like I was being asked to trust my life with this man.  Even though I enjoyed the day I came home and felt so emotional.   My sense of vulnerability was too much to bear and I realised I trust no one which explains my distance from everyone.  Few people know this about me.  They see me as a confident capable smart woman who can take on anything and I feed this image, I know I do.  And while I am these things I am also so many other things, afraid, vulnerable, untrusting, lacking in confidence and all of these feed into my self-sabotage methods.  I actively work to not self-sabotage but sometimes the terror of being successful is to much to bear so I mess it up.  I feel very small inside this adult body. 

A few days ago I was driving and thinking about my thesis when I had the thought, anyone could do that.  This is not true, anyone could not do it and most people don't.  I hate that I discount anything I achieve it is an old trick of mine.  I would be full of admiration and respect for another who achieved what I did but cannot hold it for myself.  I cannot bear to recognise that the Ns in my life were wrong.  I am something, somebody.  The tie to play out THEIR script of my life is such an addiction: to be alone, to be no good, to fail.  I feel I have reached another layer of these messages.  I DO achieve and live a life that is satisfying in many ways but I feel like the voices that are left are the ones embedded in the core of me and so are more difficult to contradict.  I feel as if I have moved through the layers and now I am at the heart of it all.  This is the challenge for me, again I am experiencing fear, something I have not felt for some time.  While going back to school has been a wonderful experience it meant that I was in the position of the "child" again, which I like except this time I emerged with a good experience and worked well.  Now I must move out into the big bad world and still feel unprepared but wonder will I always feel that.  Through this process I became aware of my fear of male authority, how I sieze up when a male professor works with me.  I go to the place of HE KNOWS EVERYTHING AND I KNOW NOTHING, I cannot remember what is said and just feel like a quivering mass.  The man is always right, in my book, and maybe this explains why I stayed in abusive relationships - of course I had to be wrong and it had to be something to do with me that needed fixing.  It has helped me understand why I am unable to accept that I could have been abused by a man because men are always right!  I must add that this is my process and not a reflection on men in general.  This scewed thinking has landed me in such a mess throughout my life and created such confusion.  This confusion brings me onto my not knowing the rules.  By this I mean the rules that young children absorb in healthy families - it is not ok to be abused.  My rules have come from outside of me and internally I have struggled to make sense of them.  I have learned how to behave by mimicing others but am still confused about how to feel.  This also supports the addiction theory.

James, I liked what you said about smoking.  My experience of it has been that it stops the pain, loneliness, fear which translates into a huge struggle.  I am not smoking again but feeling shaky about it.

And finally I have a desire to make a documentary which is possible as a friend has the resources to support it.  Interestingly, I feel that I could do it BUT how could I be a film maker?  Oh those old voices.

Thank you for this thread, for me it is very powerful. 

xxx

axa

[gjazz]

Axa: I feel the exactly same way and do the same things.  And tell myself the same things as you say here: you can't do that, you are a failure, even if you do it, it's no bid deal.  The only difference is that when someone else tries to tell me something (as you mention your professor) there are many triggers that make me simply tune him or her out.  I won't hear their message or be taught by them--even if they are right, or they have something valuable to say.  This I believe comes from tuning out my NF (what he used to call being stupid and stubborn) because I recognized he was trying to teach me some very bad lessons and said very hurtful things.  So my instinct is to shut my ears.

[teartracks]

Hi PR,

I wonder about adrenalin-junkies... and whether we can actually grow to LIKE those chaotic, crisis times... and when things finally calm down... if we don't feel that something is "missing" - hence the self-fulfilling prophecy effect... or people who create their own crises... I used to be one of those people.

I just finished reading The Glass Castle A Memoir.   The true story of Jeanette Walls childhood with a mother whose  mantra was that she was addicted to excitment.   The father was an alcoholic with a brilliant mind.  The life style the parents dragged their three children through was pure chaos.   The parents decidedly LIKED the way they did life.   The children left the environment as soon as they were able.

Here's a review:

http://rjsbooklady.wordpress.com/2008/07/13/sunday-salon-book-review-the-glass-castle-by-jeannette-walls/

tt

[gjazz]

THE GLASS CASTLE is a great book.  I've recommended it to many people, and you can tell a lot about them by their response to it.

[Hopalong]

Ahhh, CB...

It's good for you to have the keys to your own doors, cages, treasure chests.
You have to have the keys.

After what you've been through I can't imagine you'd feel any other way...
what might feel different later (or not) would feel like prison now.

I totally understand. You were married to a jerk and sooooooooo responsible
for six children, in such isolated, pressured, unhappy circumstances.

You've never NOT had a job! I don't blame you for feeling commitment-squirrely.

We discussed "broken promises" in my women's covenant group tonight, and I realized
I'm still pissed about marriage vows. How my early training was so pervasive that it has
been hell to release myself of guilt for divorce. Much less all the other things I've failed to fulfill.

So I just don't want to set myself up again, that way....is that a little how you feel?

love
Hops

[axa]

CB,

I think it is connected with having been in a family with parents who were irresponsible and vowing I would never be like them.  Also it connects with being a "good girl" and not letting other down as I have been let down.  I realise that this is a ridicilious viewpoint as I, of course, have let others down, just like everyone else. 

I think the "I won't get out" is interesting.  It is not that I can't but somehow the addiction keeps me hooked in to the bitter end until I am nearly broken and I don't want to be in that place again.  In many instances, a place of my own making because I stayed when I did not have to and I stayed when I knew things could only get worse.  Does this point to a lack of self care, an inability to prioritise my self care for the familiarity of abuse?  It does seem like that.  I have become aware lately that I shy away from potential hurt and in doing so I shy away from potential joy.  I do NOT want to live my life in such a defended way.  I see that I need to develop a healthy trust in others, not a childish trusting but an ability to weigh up the reality and make appropriate decisions.  I do not want to live in hiding, safe as it feels it will always cripple my potential but this takes courage and I do not have a lot of that left.  And yet there is the part of me that is full of hope, hope that life can be easier and less painful.  I am grateful to ageing as it focuses me on how time passes quickly.  I look back with compassion for myself and a sadness that so much of my life and energy was taken up with rerunning the old scripts - now the thought of more drama bores me rigid.  I never want it again.  I guess what I am saying is that just because things were the way they were does not mean they have to be that way again.  Maybe with internal change, learning to self care, boundaries we can go to the place of commitment in a different way because we are growing up and learning that we don't have to stay where it is unsafe for us.

Think I have been rambling but it is well intentioned.

Much love,

axa