I'd like to share this...

[Ami]

Dear Dawning
 I have been thinking of your dilemma today while I was at the dentist. I am going to throw s/thing out and just reject it if it is way off base.
 Perhaps, he is a decent guy who just got spooked at the thought of commitment. Then, it escalated out of control with your anger and feelings of betrayal. Perhaps, if he is a good guy, you could back track to just enjoying each other's company .
 My feeling is he did care for you but men  get spooked easily if they feel a woman is moving faster than they are. This is very common and does not reflect badly on him. The man could say ,"You have too many issues" when really it is that he is afraid.   I have heard of relationships that got back together after  the man left  b/c of fear of commitment. The woman made it known that she was not going to push and he opened himself up again. Then, it could get to a commitment someday in the future at his pace.
I think the man needs to take the lead on any talk of commitment.
 Just wanted to share some things you may not have considered.
 I have learned a lot from books about what men want in women. It can be very surprising how men think. We can misinterpret them simply b/c men and women think very differently.    Love to You,  Ami

[debkor]

Hi Dawning,

If you could go back and read what you wrote....and read it... and add to it ...and read it...And High Light every word where it says..He said.

Now I will tell you that I do have NFriend and This is out of N's mouth to my Ears...

They only know what I tell them.  How would they know anything else.

Then hi light about the Ill talk he did about the others to you and You to You
This you Know because He Did It

Just keep reading what you wrote.. Just keep adding....

Don't betray your feelings..They are true to you!
Let us know how you feel after you hi lite...

Love
Deb

[debkor]

Hey Ami,

With respect...It sounds as if everyone he has known has issues.
Then, it escalated out of control with your anger and feelings of betrayal.

Seems like other women in his life have had the same feelings  Anger with him

From Dawning::

Ex #1:  he said they fought alot when they lived together but now they are friends.  she takes alot of meds, he said.

Ex #2:   he said she has "anger issues" and they fought alot.

When I expressed that I didn't feel cared for, he said he just wanted to be friends. 

The only history I know of his

[debkor]

Whoops,

Sorry hit post.

Dawning,

I share your pain.  Hops, share's your pain.  Many of Us share your Pain.

We have loved a Man that Hurt Us.

Go easy on yourself is Right!!

Love
Deb

[Dawning]

I still need to talk about it, Debkor.

I'm working through it and I don't know how long it will take;

that's why I am glad this board is here.

It is a place I can go for mind water.  Anonymously.

Also, there are quite a few posters here whose replies are amazingly insightful.

And a place where no one need edit their words unless they want to.

I've kept alot inside about the last 11 months. 

And it needs to come out.

Right here.

[Ami]

Dear Deb
 I am just sharing my insights.  Opinions are like noses. Everyone has one and they usually have a few holes in them.     Ami

[debkor]

Dawning,

I did not mean for you to not talk about it.  I meant the opposite.  I can see after I went back and looked at what I wrote..
Let us know how you feel after you hi lite.

Oh God.. I can see how I made you feel.  I am so very sorry for that.   

How do I explain this?

I mean sometimes what we feel at the moment or don't know what we feel later on has a whole different Feeling. Things become clear to us.  Ah-ha moments.. We begin to put things together.

That is all I meant and with Good Intentions not to Shut you Up and it came out Wrong.. I am sorry. 

I meant that you will sort, work though it, heal and will not always feel as you do right now.

And that did sound horrible. I am sorry.


Love
Deb

[Hopalong]

pain pain pain

that's where you are right now, Dawning.

I think it's perfectly healthy to rage and blame and be furious and resent his power over your heart and feel the bruise as far as it goes and in a while, in a while, when you begin to look back with less pain and gradually piece it all together...

You'll see his character as it was.

And you'll also no longer let HIS rejection of you become YOUR rejection of you.

It just takes time. It stinks, too. It can hurt so terribly.

Meanwhile, don't worry about being accurate or mature or fair or clever.

You just got blown off in a really sloppy offhanded way by someone you had built dreams about.

Eventually, you'll probably come to believe that would've been a baaaaaaaaad dream if it had come to pass. But right now, you're grieving.

You bonded, you dreamed, you opened and were vulnerable, and he tossed you like an old tissue.

At some point figuring out what HE was thinking or what HIS motivations were might be interesting or useful for you...but right now, imo, it's more important to intentionally inject yourself with a whole lot of comfort, compassion, and sympathy.

You don't need to see it "correctly". Just see yourself truly as a good, hurt person who needs her own kindness.

You will heal, I promise. You will be stronger and you will have peace again. Love, too.

Really.

love and a spongey shoulder....

Hops

[Dawning]

The thing that will take some time is to lighten-up.

I had a rolfing session tonight.  Afterwards, we talked about breathing and letting-go. 

I HAVE STRONG FEELINGS ABOUT ME.  I CARE ABOUT ME.  AND I'M WORTH ALL THE BEAUTY THAT THIS UNIVERSE HAS TO OFFER beyond the craziness of I-don't-know-what.  So are you.  I don't want to become just another self-absorbed Californian.  I am really down on the casualness of the people here at the moment; the way relationships are so easily gotten into and out of.  I don't want anymore of that.  I want long-lasting relationships; a durable pair of shoes.  ((((Hops)))))

Thank Gawd for the Internet!

Heave-ho.  Live and learn.  Patience.  Breath.  Patience. Breathe.  Patience.  Breath.

I'm exhausted.

Don't worry about it, Deb. 

I sense I will need to write more on this thread. 

YES.  LOVE.

add on:  Yesterday evening, the next level of working through it came up- I feel exploited.  Not only in the relationship with him but was particularly acute on the job this year.  My first year back in the states was very exploitative in an intense way.   Is there any way to lessen/minimize the potential for exploitation when you have no immediate support from friends and family and are seen as alone by traditional forces at work in society?  I'm glad I wrote that.  Sometimes, seeing it written down and knowing someone else will read it too really, really helps.  I don't think people are intentionally cruel but self-absorbtion and MID-LIFE CALIFORNIA MALES are over the top scary to me right now.  To be fair, I have been exploited since i was a child and I'll bet there are some others on this board who can relate. 

[Ami]

((((((Dawning))))))
Keep sharing. You are understood. I have been exploited and betrayed by the significant people in my life---M, F and H. It is really hard to graduate from that in to being a person of value and honor(in my own mind)
 I feel that I do not deserve it. I feel that I am not entitled to my feelings, thoughts ,wants and needs. I  feel like I need to serve others, be an object for others.
 Are you making a similar  transition ?          Ami

[sKePTiKal]

Oh Dawning... it sounds like you're taking a good look at something that matters to you - a hell of a lot. Even through the immediate pain of the relationship stuff. So, yes: breathe, relax, inhale equal to exhale...

There's no starting gun to figuring anything out - and no clock ticking down - and no one to say: Time's UP. Sounds like you know how to work through this... and if you need ears... mine are pretty big, and no, I'm not a vulcan - in this life! 

[Dawning]

I  feel like I need to serve others, be an object for others.
 Are you making a similar  transition ?

Hey Ami - probably, yes.  Although I find I can't answer "yes" or "no" these days. It is like I don't know how to feel.  However, I've started to get a sense that some of the men in my life see me in terms of a sexual object.  The last two men I've spoken with - since this self-examination started - have changed in their language with me.  No longer are they nice and kind.  Now, one is being critical and the other is stand-offish.  I have held my ground and I'm not letting their words enter my body/mind.  But it is hard.  I think that when they think they can penetrate my heart (ie, SEX) then they think (with their second brain...argh!) that there is something in it for them.  Otherwise - forget it.  I need to get out more but I'm wary.

There's no starting gun to figuring anything out - and no clock ticking down - and no one to say: Time's UP. {/quote]

PhoenixRising - THANKS!  I put alot of pressure on myself.  You sensed that and I appreciate your words.

Sounds like you know how to work through this...

What makes you say that?  Because, if it were not for this board, I would be in alot worse shape...I can tell ya.

Btw, every post I read makes me cry because I feel cared for here.

     

[sKePTiKal]

Dawning... ((()))... I just meant that you have all the tools you need and I can relate to your style of processing the "what happened" and "what's really going on". You seem really self-aware and you sound to me, like you're not going to accept the "victim role" that this jerky guy wants you to play. You're already experimenting with different kinds of voice and boundaries with men.

Sure! They're not gonna like it - but then that sort of exposes their real intentions, huh? That said: not all men are like that. I've been blessed with some excellent men friends - true friends. One of them is a real jewel in the rough. He's abrupt, abrasive, and doesn't mince words for political correctness - or tact. We were both working in tech jobs and mine was more support oriented. I told him I felt that the more I supported people and worked on creating good working relationships, the more they wanted to abuse and take advantage of me... even attacking me for doing my job. His response was priceless:

He said: I figure the more people don't like me, the better I'm doing my job (safeguarding the network and enforcing the rules of that). And then he added: my self-esteem doesn't require that OTHER people like me. I have to like me.

A light-bulb went on - AHA!!! And I realized I had to separate how I valued myself - from people's reactions to me. Not become a nasty, mean person... but not always see myself as needing to accomodate every single request immediately... to qualify for "doing my job well". I could set boundaries and not let people "beat me up" just because they weren't following directions, didn't take any training, and as result, became frustrated with the technology. I think I need to be reminded of this kind of thing every so often; it's just not something that's built-in to my psyche... and that's when I need that kind of friend!

There are many, many kinds of people in the world with many, many styles of interacting. But, I'm finding that the number of motivations in those interactions aren't so limitless. In romantic relationships, there tend to be a lot of power subtexts or motivations. I'm usually guilty of completely giving up power (self-esteem; self-boundaries) in exchange for "love". Fortunately, my husband doesn't accept that; it's not the way he "plays". Even though, in the past, he was quite the "love 'em & leave 'em" sex-hound he has changed - maybe as we've grown together; maybe some things he learned on his own.

My motivation was always to melt away into an "us" until I existed womb-like in a mutally loving and permanent relationship. I've only recently realized (this is my 3rd marriage and there were other significant relationships) that I get closer to that "feeling" and it's more real, if I strengthen my own self-boundaries and worry less if I'm meeting his every expectation of me (as I imagine it), paradoxical as that is. There has to be a pretty solid me... before there's an us.

But that's me... not you. So keep on telling your story... we need to find you a happy ending! (coz there will be a sequel or a new chapter)   

[Ami]

Dear Dawning,
 There are several things I see from your interactions on the Board. You stand up for yourself very well. You set boundaries .  I think you are getting in touch with your inner core. That is the definition of health, as I see it. I lost that connection with my core  self as an adolescent. I have been trying to reconnect since . It has been my passion but it has been very hard to feel a sense of it again. I lost  trust in my  essential goodness  when my M threw her split off self(bad self) on me.Then, I was just running away from the bad me by trying to be perfect.  I thought I had to be false or people would treat me with the rejection my M did.
 I am doing  Kundilini Yoga.
 It puts me in touch with the essence of me.You seem to be on a similar journey.       Ami
 
 
 

[Dawning]

I don't think of myself as a victim.

But I came dangerously close to calling him last night.

During the "I just want to be friends" call, he also said, "I don't want you to feel like you can't call me."

It is just a need I have to be close to someone who doesn't want to be close to me.  Calling him feels like the worst thing I could do to myself right now.   

One thing I know is that if I am scared to call him or anyone, if it takes too much effort or my gut instinct tell me no - I intend to listen.  I don't what happened last night and why I felt so close to picking up the phone.  After all, he did say I could call him.