Question: What are we hungry for?

[Gabben]

We all know here what the N's in our life were hungry for, right? Attention, praise, glory; love in any form they can find and in any way that they can get it even if it means stepping on our toes and hurting us.

So then, if the N's in our life were hungry for love then what are we  hungry for?

At deep levels I still hunger for love and approval just like when I was a child, but the difference between my hunger and a full blown N is that I can acknowledge it, own it and work to seek out the real stuff in life, by being real, that fills our hunger void. Today, I can let the little child in me that was so hungry for something, anything, cry and bleed out her pain of what never happened and what did happen that she never wanted to happen. Whenever I actually allow myself that pain, even if for just a minute, the void that seemed so deep, like black hole in me that just wants to suck in all and everything around it starts to close up a bit and the hope of genuine healing starts to takeover.

The difficulty for me has been to just find that hole and then acknowledge it as it just hurts until it does not hurt anymore. We live in a world that seems to not want to talk about the "Elephant standing in the living room," the fact that we ARE needy. There was a time in my life that I felt ashamed for having needs and for me to actually say "I am needy" produced deep feelings of shame. But, today, I can actually express my needs, if only to myself, which are growing far fewer than in the past, and get them met and taken care of. So much of that freedom came from taking ownership of my black holes of emptiness, holes that if had gone left unchecked would lead to my own N demise.

[Hopalong]

I'm hungry for peace, and an overriding sense of welcome.

I am welcome in this world.

The world is welcome in me.

Welcome from me to me,
from the beloved earth to me and me to it,
from me to those I love,
from me to future generations because I heal enough to do something to help the planet heal.

And the peace of kindness...from humans to each other, and humans to animals.

Hops

[Gabben]

"I'm hungry for peace, and an overriding sense of welcome."

Ditto!

[teartracks]

Gabben!!!!!

Just wanted to say hi...

tt

[sKePTiKal]

Hey Lise, glad you're back and on this topic, too!

For me... I need to know I'm "OK" - just as I am - that I'm safe - including safe being me, worth caring for, and that when my emotions are in turmoil - I've been to your black hole - that someone, somewhere will help me find my way back to emotional balance, or equilibrium. That this turmoil matters enough for someone to try to help me get back to balance. That it doesn't make them uncomfortable, rejecting, or drive them away.

You mentioned smoking the last time... I've finally realized that my habit is based on the needs I just described. That I used it for a substitute for really getting those needs met. It's just ironic, isn't it? That I'd choose something like this - the "comfort that kills" - which so accurately symbolizes and represents the kind of attachment style I had with my mother.

Her "care" of me, was "comfort that kills". And it was my "need" for comfort & "OK-ness" that kept me going back ; kept me "hooked"- even knowing it came at a very high price. It was my own unsatisfied/unsatisfiable need for an impossibility - that I could make my mother normal and have a normal relationship with her - that needed an outlet; a vent. And since it "could've been worse" (according to mom) that was interpreted as a unspoken "it's OK... it's OK that you're smoking".

And it was something that wasn't her - a boundary of sorts - it was the only one I was permitted to have. So it also served to separate me from her projections and distortions - it served as a "safe zone". I could say more... but it's only more of the same type of connection/association that I've picked apart and tried to understand.

I'm starting to understand that this kind of self-sabotage is a learned habit... a substitute for the "good enough" attachment equilibrium that I happened on by accident while 100% desperate for that equilibrium - that helped me "cope" with my emotions (which weren't safe to have or express) and that unconsciously, I chose something that mirrored the attachment that existed in reality. It was what I was familiar with; I didn't know any better or different. THEN.

I'm at the stage now, with this... where I'm figuring out how to let this go. The problem for me is, how does one "let something go"? What does that consist of? What does "letting it go" MEAN in practical terms? I've only recently decided that for me, it doesn't mean that I simply forget it and put it out of my mind... that's like denying my own existence for all these years. I do have to accept it and my real need behind the substitute--gratification system.

Right now, this is how I'm defining what "let it go" means:

I don't HAVE TO stop thinking about it "forever"...
I only have to stop letting "it" (and "it" can be anything) control my feelings, thoughts and actions... control "me"...
to have let something go

I'd love to know what you think about this, whether any of it makes sense to you and if you have anything to add, or clarify on this "theory".

[DOBA]

I also hunger for inner peace.  I hunger for the freedom to embrace the heart of pure joy and gratitude for the simple but abundant blessings poured out on my life.  My NF was a very heavy smoker and as children, we all suffered from asthma, ear and sinus infections, frequent upper respiratory infections.  Right after he died in the hospice house, my sister and I were walking to the car and she said "We can finally breathe!"  The pure air, the healthy air, the essence of life!

[Ami]

This is a wonderful question, Lise.
 My need is for self expression of my true self NOT the perfect (false) self.
  It seems possible
 I want to manage my own shame not put it out there for other people to vote on.
 Other people  will hurt you with your own shame  using it as a weapon . Not everyone, of course, but unhealed people .
         Ami


 
 

[Gabben]

Gabben!!!!!

Just wanted to say hi...

tt

Hi TT!!!!!

[Gabben]

For me... I need to know I'm "OK" - just as I am - that I'm safe - including safe being me, worth caring for, and that when my emotions are in turmoil

This I can relate to, it is that desire to be acceptable in all of who I am, the good and the bad. If I do not feel safe then I do not embrace truth about myself and look to see who I am and what I am doing in my life (which is how we free ourselves), I tend to want to run to somewhere safe where I am not feeling rejected and judged. Ami, on another thread was talking about introjections, my NM's introjections can be a powerful weapon in my psyche, still, even after all of the healing I have done, it blows me away. It helps me to see just how much abuse I really suffered, which is leading me to be more compassionate with myself.  Just reading your post was very helpful in quieting those introjections that continually tell me that I am a flawed failure at life and that I need to hide from this world.

You mentioned smoking the last time... I've finally realized that my habit is based on the needs I just described. That I used it for a substitute for really getting those needs met. It's just ironic, isn't it? That I'd choose something like this - the "comfort that kills" - which so accurately symbolizes and represents the kind of attachment style I had with my mother.

This I can also so relate with. My smoking is still an issue for me. I find it interesting that I am so addicted when there were times in my life were I was so free from addiction, I think that at those addiction free times denial was my addiction.

I love that saying "the comfort that kills" is that not just like our moms when we were little, they were the comfort that killed us because they were no comfort at all. However, we were so familiar with that toxic mom love air that we now out of our fears seek out a substitute in smoking to keeping filling the empty places in us that were created by the the non-comfort of our parents as well as the wounds that we received from just the trauma of being so neglected in love.

I once heard that every symptom tells a story and you have told the story about the symptom of addiction to smoking well. The story for me is the same but there is still more to it that lies under the surface begging for my attention, is that not interesting, "begging for my attention" that is it, it is the primal roots and my broken humanity that begs for my attention. I can feel a huge turning point coming up for me around my smoking, I have been in those primal places of wounding, bleeding and just feeling that raw emptiness that is so deep down in me. The problem that I am having is my mom's intorjections that keep forcing me back into fear and hiding away from my own begging for attention, it is like two steps forward and then I fall back again. At least I am past the point of ever giving up.

And it was something that wasn't her - a boundary of sorts - it was the only one I was permitted to have. So it also served to separate me from her projections and distortions - it served as a "safe zone". I could say more... but it's only more of the same type of connection/association that I've picked apart and tried to understand.

Smoking is too a safe zone or insulation for me against the worlds projections and distortions that I take on as my own self defined since as a  child I was so sponge like I easily allowed myself to be defined by my mom's projections. Being projected onto is a very painful wound to heal, it has gotten much easier for me over time, especially since the N therapist that triggered those memories of what it was like to be defined by my mother. But that pain is still there, what it is like to be defined by others who are Nish and have all of their unwanted crap dumped on you. I feel as though I am constantly wiping the mud off my face only see my own mud underneath, I am trying to see how smoking relates to this. I don't know, for a while I was safe from other projections and had even grown strong enough to withstand them in gentleness, but, now, I am right back to the pain that those projections cause. Since I was so rejected as a child I think that those projections and distorted reality of others about who I am is just touching that wounded place again and cleansing out some more pain, it is all good, just healing.

that unconsciously, I chose something that mirrored the attachment that existed in reality. It was what I was familiar with; I didn't know any better or different. THEN.

ditto

It all makes sense to me. I am at the stage where letting go is coming into my being whether I like it or not. It took so many years to unfold my defenses and learn them to unlearn them that I can actually see that now my defenses are wearing down and giving up the battle before I have to do the hard work of letting them go. It brings me hope, to finally see that there is a child in me that feels safe enough with myself at least to have her pain without so much battle. I awoke this AM in intense pain but I was able to listen to the voice of my inner child and her ache tell me the story and allow myself to just be with that stabbing pain. I now feel better and more hopeful that letting go will just happen.

[Gabben]

I also hunger for inner peace. 

ditto

[Gabben]

Amber,

Another thought about the story of addiction is that smoking is a way for us to be empathetic with ourselves, fullfilling that deep need for empathy that we are instinctually born with but, since we were born into the arms of mothers who were not capable of empathy we seek out the substitute in our addictions.

In smoking we are empathizing with ourselves. I think for me I need to grieve the loss of mothering empathy that I did not receive as a child, very primal.

[Gabben]

Amber,

Another thought, that before you can grieve the loss of empathy in childhood you first have to comprehend on a deep level what empathy is.

Lise

[sKePTiKal]

Thank you very much !! It does help that you've got areas in common on this topic and can talk about them. I don't second-guess myself quite so much... doubt my own theory.

For me, at that time, I still believed in magic. Smoking "magically" helped me think coherently (after long months of dissociation)... it was a talisman that kept me safe from (different from) my mother. She was crazy, I knew; I was NOT, I believed; even despite the doubt and distrust of myself created by the experience of dissociation. She didn't/doesn't smoke. It was a sign of weakness to her... of "those kinds" of people... a serious character flaw. Yet, it was one she tolerated me having... and didn't "touch" with demeaning criticism - talisman, again.

"Those kinds" of people were also social, happy, had boundaries and enjoyed themselves and life. I wanted desperately to be one of them instead of like my mom. She provided many, many reasons why "those kinds" of people couldn't be trusted, were bad and evil... and so I gravitated right TO them, don't ya know? (denying all the while what I knew rationally then - smoking is dangerous!!)

Even more important - maybe - is the "addiction" part of the whole mess. Like I think you said... "begging for my attention" can also be an addiction... and I think, perhaps also, is a replacement of what is really needed... with a really poor substitute... one that doesn't satisfy... only increases the craving. The "hitting head on brick wall & expecting a different result" approach. I've looked at whether or not giving up - might be the way out. Not giving up only gets me back to the d--- wall.

I do know, now... that when I quit it will be a different way than all the recommended suggestions/techniques. And it will require - absolutely - figuring out exactly what I need to do to meet that need to be "OK/Safe" - without seeking it outside myself... and doing both at the same time. I feel very much, that I'm running out time yet trying to take enough time to be thorough... so I'm pretty obsessed with this these days, though working mostly alone. Maybe that's the best way - I truly can't say yet.

Like you, I feel I'm very close to another huge step... away from and toward. I hope we can give each other clues along the way.

[Hopalong]

PR, love,

Urgent thing to say regarding:

when I quit it will be a different way than all the recommended suggestions/techniques

Hmmm.

xo,

Hops

[mudpuppy]

So then, if the N's in our life were hungry for love then what are we  hungry for?

At this particular moment, lemon sherbet.

mud