Author Topic: Question: What are we hungry for?  (Read 9368 times)

Gabben

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2009, 03:43:44 PM »
I melted down in to utter worthlessness, today. Last night, I said Goodbye(in my own mind) to my parents, to being their D. I cried to God to lift me up as the Scripture says"When my M and F forsake me, the Lord will lift me up."
He promises and I take that promise on faith.
 As far as the primal nature, I think about that all the time. I think what happened in abused people vs not abused people is that our N's USED our primal nature as a WEAPON against us to show us were bad. Then, we accepted this self concept, surrounded it with shame and tried to be perfect so no one would see our flawed self and hurt us again.
 I know from talking to my Aunt that she is not blown away by her primal nature. My guitar teacher is not either. They accept primal feelings as human NOT bad. That,in a nutshell, is where I think *I* got off track.       Ami

Don't you just love those melt downs? I cannot even count how many times I have melted down in the last few months, more than any other time in my life. As a matter of fact my melt downs are what led me back to this board. For me it is about shame, the agony of shame and the deep desires that never got fulfilled as a baby, the inner hunger for love and sweet affection, empathy, that went absent from my heart, mind and entire being as I was so abandoned in so many ways as a child.

Ami - my mom did not use my primal nature as a weapon against me, at times, when I was older, she used my defenses that were developed to withstand her assaults as weapons against me but as a small and helpless child my mom just ignored my needs because she was out of touch her her needs and too busy fulfilling her needs, if that makes sense?

My mom just could not empathize and was also so engaged in her own FOO stuff that she completely abandoned me when I needed someone the most. As a baby I was boring to my mom unless she could dress me up and take me somewhere to get attention. I was used. I was mistreated simply out of my mothers selfishness.

Ami -  I have been trying to heal the wounds that a child takes in and takes on when they are left alone at the most sweet and tender of innocent ages, a baby. I try to imagine a little child in my soul that was pure, sweet, and innocent, so hungry and in need of love being denied that. It is sort of like hungry dogs, the more you starve them the more aggressive and distressed they become.

What is also so painful about this repressed wound of baby neglect is that you grow up with it as it morphs into self destructive behavior that leads to more shame and lonely isolation, what a vicious cycle of self contempt and contempt for a world that the baby in me perceived as being a black, dark ugly bully oppressing world.

So much aggression to heal, I'm so tired of healing aggression that never got expressed and instead was pushed into a cave of my unconscious because the world, my mom, denied my primal needs.

It just hurts...it is the cross again, Ami, the pain of the desert, the agony of feeling utterly defeated in this world and not by the world but by my very own self.

The good news is that I can go in and wrap my arms around myself and re-parent that child that just needed to be held and nurtured...God is my nurturer and holder, I just keep reaching for Him with all my heart and He just keeps showing up, more and more. It is the fulfilment of my childhood wish.






sKePTiKal

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2009, 04:22:36 PM »
Ah yes... there is more hidden in the cloud of "smoke"...

there is a shame cycle... we don't feel safe = smoke... smoke = shame (not safe)... smoke. At least, for me, I've seen this. And the "not safe" can even be something as simply as taking a break in work... my own feelings... sigh. You know, don't you?

So I work on releasing... letting go... and reminding myself I AM safe now... no shame in being a smoker - for anyone who started smoking, got hooked, for any reason... just the opportunity to do something different NOW.... it's a juggling act, and will require full attention and lots of practice to get it "just so"... but it's got to start with safe/no shame for me...

... then it's safe to just forget "I need a smoke"... it'll lose a lot of it's power.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Ami

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2009, 04:25:36 PM »
Yeah, Lise. I had a wonderful melt down today.
 At the bottom of everything, I have Jesus. I have come a long way to get Him but perhaps I would not have found Him if I was not so broken. When I get REALLY down, I say what my old pastor would say,"God looks at us as saved or lost.
 I am not uncomfortable discussing my faith b/c it is who I am and that has to be OK. If not,people are free to avoid me.         Ami
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 04:34:31 PM by Ami »
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Gabben

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2009, 05:17:20 PM »
I am not uncomfortable discussing my faith b/c it is who I am and that has to be OK. If not,people are free to avoid me.         Ami

Thank God.

I just was not sure if the faith talk here would offend anyone like it used to and I do want to be dis-respectful because this is a board for discussion on Narcissism not faith. For me the healing of the wounds of narcissism are about faith, there would be no way that I could have taken on the pains that I have had to face over the years if it had not been for Jesus.

Right now though I feel denied of Christ, I have felt denied of Him in the loving and intense way that I used to know and experience Him. It hurts. Just when I start to feel the love of Jesus well up in me I am faced with the old wounds. Seeking God out is what I am supposed to do but it gets mixed up with the old pain.

Jesus is there in the pain He just wants me to see the wounds so that He can dress them with hope and viture. One of the wounds that was triggered recently for me was the idea that God is my constant protector, helper and comforter. But having God's comfort denied me is exactly how I felt as a small child...the "one and only" my mom was supposed to comfort me and I was denied, it has been just a hard journey to know God's comfort, I fought the battle with so much faith and courage in the past. I know that I am just being healed of deep hunger pains and old fleshy wounds, by Christ, in His way, not mine.

Shame, though, still plagues me, the feelings of unworthiness simply because I am wounded but even that relates to the under my soul deep wounds that are begging, screaming for me to address. Sometimes it is so hard, especially when you have to do it alone.

Hugs.
Lise

Hopalong

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2009, 07:52:59 PM »
I believe there is nothing shameful, nothing whatsoever, about being addicted to nicotine.

I don't know if I've said, but OVER 20 YEARS AFTER I QUIT (through being hypnotized, several times--and it took two processes of this several years apart to "stick" ) I am still, intentionally, chewing nicotine gum, all day long.

The addiction (brain + nicotine) is so powerful for me that I made a deliberate decision to transfer the addiction from cigarette vehicle to gum vehicle. That happened after I decided it was okay to acknowledge that I was powerless over it and decided I didn't have to be a perfect (i.e., nicotine-free) ex-smoker.

I have never regretted it for a moment (except financially, the stuff's very expensive--and I could've gone around the world 5 times...).

I had tried and failedx100...oh, the humiliating wasteful stories I could tell. Would plucking a nice lengthy butt from a public ashtray do? More than once? (Just as a "peak", iow "trough" one...there are many.)

I finally told myself I was not going to be a hero. I just wanted to stop my desperate cigarette use.

I asked my doctor once how bad it is that I use nicotine gum. He said: Well, if what a cigarette does to you is a, say, 10--what a piece of nicotine gum does to you is a quarter of a one.

Oh. Well, I thought. Hmmm.

I decided I could live with that...I felt so AWFUL, from 20 years of heavy smoking, that I believed I was slowly dying.

And it has turned out to be true. I CAN live with a nicotine addiction.

I just couldn't have survived if I kept smoking.

Back to where I started--that's all just to illustrate that I am deeply addicted, in my brain.

And I am peaceful with that addiction. Maybe later in my life, I'll get off the gum too.

But I have a heartfelt thing I'll say to myself quite often, meaning every word:

Thank you god for helping me quit smoking.

Privileges like the leisure to think theological thoughts are entirely dependent on me not being dead.

xo
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Ami

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2009, 08:02:05 PM »
Shame, though, still plagues me, the feelings of unworthiness simply because I am wounded but even that relates to the under my soul deep wounds that are begging, screaming for me to address. Sometimes it is so hard, especially when you have to do it alone.

Hugs.
Lise
[/quote]



Dear Lise
 I think when you have an NM you live a totally different life as far as insecurity and shame. It cuts so deeply and it seems like you must swim upward ALL the time to even have a shred of self esteem. Nothing outside makes it better----not your appearance, education, success etc.
 It is a depth of a hole that has the abyss under it  threatening to pull you under.
 People who have a loving M  do not  understand how you question your very right to live,  to breathe, to be on this earth.
 If I needed to get that low to find Jesus,it is OK.
 He is everything. When this life fades, we will be taken to a life with no pain and no shame.It will be forever.
           Ami


No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Gabben

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2009, 08:04:41 PM »
Thank you Hops for sharing your story with addiction, knowing we are not alone can be half the battle.

"And I am peaceful with that addiction. Maybe later in my life, I'll get off the gum too."

Your battle with addiction is a testament to you faith and integrity. At least you took on the battle and are still open to further healing if needed, some people seem to not even want to fight the fight.


Hopalong

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2009, 09:54:25 PM »
Thanks...to me, the battle was won 20 years ago when I realized that for me,
a maintenance dose of nicotine would save me from an early death.

No more battle.

What a relief.

It doesn't plague me any more--plenty of other things to work on!

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gabben

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2009, 10:15:55 AM »
People who have a loving M  do not  understand how you question your very right to live,  to breathe, to be on this earth.

Ami - this line above spoke so much to me, it was a reminder that there was a time in my life where that feeling that I did not even have a right to be here or a right to breathe permeated all of my being and dictated all every thought and action, it was anxiety times 100. It amazes me that I have come so far. There was a time where being alive was a torture, every waking moment.

Unless I had not been loved back into truth and surrounded by others in recovery who accepted me, although they may have judged me in the process, they still accepted me and there were even some who loved me in a special way, I would have never been able to find Christ or that fulfilling relationship with God that has confirmed me as being OK to be here on planet earth and OK to breathe.


Hopalong

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2009, 11:43:48 AM »
To ANYONE who wants thoughts on smoking (do please ignore if you don't, I understand!):

I don't want to be "poking" smokers at ALL -- god knows I loathed being "reminded" of the obvious. But I'm pulling for y'all in this particular area if you don't mind hearing thoughts on it sometimes. I'm also perfectly glad to be told you'd rather not discuss it with an "ex" because that can be irritating. Won't take the slightest offense if that's so!)

Long preamble just because Lise's comment really struck me:

Quote
I did not even have a right to be here or a right to breathe


Since it's all a cousin of voicelessness, I was wondering if spending time with that thought in a LITERAL rather than metaphorical way might lead in a healing direction, e.g., what would it be like to love your lungs and sit with how you DO have a right to breathe something other than smoke...iow, would it change anything deep inside that would make it easier to take on the habit-stopping when/if you want to.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gabben

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2009, 11:59:54 AM »
Amber, Ami, Hops,

The insights that I gained here on the board, recently, have helped me greatly with my surging hunger pains which until this AM were feeling like they were taking over my being, much like my dream about the forcefull bull, I was able to see the deep seeded cause on an intellectual level as well as on an emotional level, taking in the truth in order to loosen up the binding of defence; it hurt but the pains of hunger have passed, on some level my hunger has shrunk, a little.

Healing can be so much easier than I make it or than it seems; it really is about truth and mindfulness. There was a child in me that was hungry for me to just empathize with her pain of emptiness as well as validate her reality of neglect, the denial of her needs. In that I found some intense grief that once expressed seemed to fulfill my inner desire to have my voice, the little infant voice heard, acknowledged and understood. That infant voice was a screaming raging voice.

As a child I was so intuitive about my mom's disapproval of my strong expressions of crying or baby rage that I instinctively shut down my emotions out of fear of her rejection. My mom, even to this day, can not handle MY emotions on any level.  It is amazing to me that I still carry within my being these emotional memories of infanthood after already doing so much work on infant wounds. Some of us are just more wounded than others. These layers have been cycled through so many times, especially when I see myself acting out in dysfunctional hunger but I had no idea that I was so neglected, I mean really, would my NM ever reveal that to me? Would my father ever tell me what those earliest years were like for me? I had to reach down into my being, listening and watching myself, to learn what life was like for me in those primal years; life was disturbing as an infant with little comfort, no wonder I have been so disturbed much of my life.



Gabben

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2009, 12:10:22 PM »
Since it's all a cousin of voicelessness, I was wondering if spending time with that thought in a LITERAL rather than metaphorical way might lead in a healing direction, e.g., what would it be like to love your lungs and sit with how you DO have a right to breathe something other than smoke...iow, would it change anything deep inside that would make it easier to take on the habit-stopping when/if you want to.

Hops

Hops this is beautiful. What a wonderful suggestion to be mindful of breathing, even if for one day, what insights we, smokers, could possibly gain by just mindfully taking in air and noticing our breathing patterns. For me this would simply highlight what I already know about myself on an intellectual level about my stored anxiety thus helping to further tell me the story of what it was like as a baby, trying to fight for survival, trying to breathe when I did not feel worthy.

My body tenses, constantly...repressed memories for sure.

The word "breathe" is another clue in the puzzle of smoking that you have helped bring to my awareness like the words, expression, contempt, holding, and channel.

How about when I smoke I am expressing, the contempt that I hold in my body for not feeling a right to breathe but desperately (we need air to live), needs to be channeled?

There is that saying that whatever we repress will manifest, find a channel, in inappropriate behavior.




Hopalong

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2009, 12:11:51 PM »
Oh whew.

I'm glad!

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gabben

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2009, 12:32:03 PM »
My body feels like it is rapidly giving up secret after secret story about my childhood pains and disturbances. I can feel the story telling itself in just the emotions that I am experiencing in my tension.

Being able to let go a habit that has plagued me for so long feels just around the corner. My mother, yearning for her protection, validation and love has plagued me for so long. Another disillusionment to let go of.




Gabben

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #44 on: August 01, 2009, 12:36:38 PM »
Hops,

a good mantra for smokers might be "I have a right to breath." As I say this to myself I can feel the little child me, so frightened, feeling comforted and taking in more air as my body relaxes, a good habit rather than the "bad" habit of smoking.

Thanks for being here.

Lise