Missing Dreams

[sunblue]

In studying the effects of being raised in an N family, one consequence that seems to be evident is the lack of dreams.  When I had been seeing Ts and they ran through their usual questions, one of the questions that came up was "What did you dream about as a child?"  They weren't talking about the kinds of dreams you have when you sleep....instead, they were talking about those "life dreams" most people have......I had a very tough time answering the question.  Oh, I could tell them what career I wanted to pursue, what I wanted to do for a living...but other than that, I really had no answer.

I realize now that the reason I can't talk about dreams the way others can...is because as a child of an N mom, I, like others in my shoes, were taught not to have our own dreams.  All interest and attention had to go to the N.  Our dreams, wants, desires were theirs.  We were taught that the only hopes and dreams that counted were those of the N.  More than that, because we were raised in families that literally revolve around the N, we never learned how to think of ourselves, to have dreams of our own...and more importantly, to be reassured and encouraged that our deams could come true.

That's why, as adults, I think, we often times are caught up only thinking of others....whether they be spouses, children, N parents, bosses, etc.

A T once asked me "What would your life look like, sound like, feel like if something happened and your N parents weren't here?"  I had no idea.

D

[Hopalong]

Sun,

How absolutely fantastic that you are asking yourself this question!

love,
Hops
PS--it's not ruminating, this is thought that moves you forward. Bravo.

[Sealynx]

Great Topic SunBlue,
You can't even dream in peace with them around!
S

[Ami]

Dear Sun
 That is really some topic. It shows how completely the N's dominate our lives, leaving us NOTHING for ourselves!       xxxoo   Ami

[binks]

Good topic!

As a child I felt the only private place was inside my own head, so I had lots of life dreams as a child.

I remember hoping my Dad would go off with another woman and I could move in with him. (She worked at the same company and was a widow) I totally fantasized about how great life would be if that happened.

I also fantasized about getting married and living in Cornwall and having 6 children. (That one continued until I was in my late teens and actually met my husband)

I still fantasize about all sorts really.

[Sealynx]

Like Binks I kept my dreams inside, but that meant that I didn't really believe them. They were like fantasies.

Sharing dreams means getting realistic feedback and support on how to attain them. That is part of what parents are for and what sharing is all about, finding supporters. What I found was that my mother's behavior kept me living in "never never land".

Though I might say I wanted to do something, the very act of MY wanting it was an affront to her reality and she would immediately bend my dream into something strange and beyond reach or just "silly".  I learned that nothing I did could have real effect in the world.

I still fight this feeling of abandonment when I'm on the verge of attaining a goal. I had to deliver some information for an upcoming promotion yesterday and I was ready to give up because I couldn't find some things. All the horrible feelings came back. I forced myself to ask for help and all of my supervisors who not only like me but appreciate MY support bent over backwards to get me the info. Inside of 30 minutes I had everything I needed. It is a groundless fear, but it is a deeply ingrained habit.

[Portia]

Great topic. I denied my wish. It would have been a subject of too much envy. The last thing I wanted to do was compete, be drawn into competition.

[binks]

Absolutely Sealynx, the dreams were like fantasies and I learnt early on not to share with with my mother.

I remember when I was 7 or 8, Man From Uncle was really popular (and James Bond) and I loved playing at spies all the time. My Auntie and uncle were over and they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. Of course I said "A spy".
Mum was furious, told me not to be so stupid and apologized to my auntie and uncle for my bad behaviour. After they had left mum had another go at me, saying "how could you let me down in front of my sister" and lots of other nasty things besides.

After that, if any one asked the same question I would say that I didn't know.

[HeartofPilgrimage]

This is indeed a great topic. I personally am finally living my dream (I'm 46). I am back in school, studying what I really want to study, and preparing to go full blast into a career about the same time my husband is winding down! I think he is looking forward to being a house-husband when the time comes! I spent years as a stay at home mom, and don't regard a second of it, but am also THRILLED and engaged with the prospect of a career that suits me to a T.

So, no matter how your dreams were denied you as a child, it is never too late. I am getting the PhD, and I have fellow students that are well into their sixties ...

I remember that someone once wrote to Dear Abby and said, "Should I go back to school? By the time I finish in four years, I will be 50 years old!" And Abby answered, "And how old will you be in  four years if you DON'T go back to school?"

[HeartofPilgrimage]

Yikes! I meant "I don't REGRET a second" of staying home. How did it turn into "regard"? That's what you get when you are back in school at 46!!!!

[sunblue]

Thanks everyone for your input and response.  Actually, I think these lack of dreams....hopes is one of the more insidious effects of being raised in an N family.  I also think that dreams are on eof those things that separates us from each other.  Perhaps that is why an N does not allow anyone to have them.  It would create the fear that THEY would not be the center of attention....that a world actually exists outside of themselves.  Narcissisim is nothing if not the belief that the world consists only of the N.

For me....the saddest thing about the absence of dreams...is that dreams are so closely tied to hope.  Without hope, life is so very difficult to maintain.  Perhaps that's why I've been plagued with life-long clinical depression.  Without hope, there is nothing.

I also think that Ns are incapable of real dreams...because their whole perception of themselves and the world is one big fantasy...However, with healthy people, dreams for life have an element of reality to them...of possibility.  If I had dreamed of having my own family, of finding someone to care about me....that is based on a shred of reality...that there would be a possibility of it happening.  But an Ns dream....of a world where only they exist....has no reality or possibility.

So alas, no dreams...no possibility....That is how children of Ns are raised.

[bearwithme]

((((Sunblue)))))

I suffered at the hands of a raging Nmother who stole my dreams.  I believe that every child has an innate ability to dream and so did you.  Your N's took that away from you so quickly and at such a young age, you are unable to recall what they were all about.  I believe that the mind of a child is so vast and open that the dreams are automatically formed as they learn about the world around them.  Infants laugh and smile at things we don't even realize are there because they are stimulated by them in some way.  When our N parents overrode that mechanism to absorb our new world, the focus was on them and forever we learned that they were most important, not the world around us or what the world had to offer for us.  It was all about them.  Discovery was over.  I call this "Stealing a child's gold." 

I think somewhere deep down inside remains our dormant/suppressed dreams because I can feel it.  When my T also asked me what I dream about, I was silent and then broke down into a sobbing mess...I realized my Nmother stole mine.

[Izzy_*now*]

hi sunblue

...is because as a child of an N mom, I, like others in my shoes, were taught not to have our own dreams.

Another viewpoint is what I grew up thinking, not taught, as nothing was said, is that my parents were dirtpoor farmers abused by their parents and I (we) was/were never encouraged about anything at which we might have excelled, or at least in which we had an interest. Perhaps coming from farming parents, and being farmers themselves, they knew nothing beyond that, i.e. that one of their 5 children could excel at nursing, teaching, whatever. At this point when we 5 are all over 65, eldest was an RN and went on to be a nursing supervisor, and hobby was at golfing, one became  a teacher, my brother an OPP in Ontario, and a good honest cop he was. The remaining sister and I just took a course and became office workers.  That's all I ever did, was office type work but excelling in figures, payroll, bookkeeping, etc, but as a little girl I wanted to own a candy store so I would have a constant supply of candy.

My daughter aspired to be an astronaut, from her interest in Sci-fi shows, movies and TV. I never tried to talk her out of it, as I figured she would grow out of that, and she took off to University in the Sciences program. (I was afraid she'd become one and something would happen and 20 years later she would fall from the sky, dead, on my front lawn.) Anyway she met the N and life was all downhill after marrying him, even her education. Until she left him, divorced and finally earned Degrees from a University education in Midwifery and Hynotherapy!

As my life progressed from age 4 to 53, I had bumbled around on the piano, by ear. I began writing lyrics and music, and I still cannot play or sing, but I know all the notes and music theory, and I am now writing a song for Susan Boyle. I love this and it's only a hobby, as is my Website Building that I learned from scratch, as well, but all this came so much later in life.

I have learned though, at least with my family, that if one has a talent, but no Degree, none of them pay attention. Had I taken lessons and become a famous concert pianist (but I would have had to start about age 4, when I did sneak into the parlour to learn on my own) or own my own Website Business from some College course, I  might be recognized as being good at something and being 'successful'. I just don't have the Degrees.

It is the next generation down, my nieces and nephews, from the 4 of them who each had 2 kids (and I had one., mentioned above) An orthopedic Surgeon, on staff for Toronto Blue Jays, Toronto Marboros and Toronto Maple Leafs, now in Texas... A chiropractor,...a lawyer... a teacher...  a paramedic and a cop. Now the sister who took office work as I did, the N, her 2 are a truck driver and a waitress, mine has Degrees, but to me it is not all about the degrees, the schooling, the prestige!

Just a minute!..What was the topic?

Oh ya! Dreams. Well now I wonder if there is a difference in an N mother stealing dreams, or a parent who never tells you that you are allowed to dream. I don't consider my Mom was an N.

I just make all my money by being crashed around by cars and filing law suits. Little did I know that that was the way I would survive in life (but suffer all along the way!!) I have to feel there is a reason for all this and I can only come up with, a way $$$ to survive, and it was never a dream of mine--just a dirty trick from somewhere, but this'll keep me 'til I nod off to the Great Beyond.

I am not being pathetic here. It's the way it was and is and ever shall be, now that I'm 70 and with a paining groin, I'll never have sex again!

Ah Well
Such is Life!
Izzy

[teartracks]

Hi Sunblue,

But an Ns dream....of a world where only they exist....has no reality or possibility.

Profound and sad.  They are their dream.  

tt

[Nonameanymore]

Hi SunBlue,

I, au contraire, had lots of dreams but were never taken into consideration.
I did study ballet but only because I had a scholarship and it was free. After I went NC, aged 25, I managed to take short courses in the subjects I was interested, mostly via distance learning.
The interesting thing is that yes my dreams were discounted but also that I had to accept whatever silly activity NM thought was 'cool'. One example is that I was taken for swimming lessons when I clearly felt uncomfortable in the water. When the coach had to switch us from the baby pool to the olympic dimensions, I was really struggling. Eventually he had to tell NM that I would never be a swimmer and that sooner rather than later I would end up at the bottom of the pool.

At some point I also worked with a lifecoach: during the first session she gave me a questionnaire to fill that was asking along the same lines you were asking: what has been your biggest dream, what holds you back from achieving it, what steps you need to take, what regrets do you have for not doing the things you wanted etc.

P.

P.