Author Topic: Hops  (Read 3370 times)

lighter

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Hops
« on: November 10, 2009, 09:06:48 AM »
Hops:

Would you mind sharing your Attention Deficit journey here?

I'm curiouse about all aspects.

Esp what the docs said, and how they made their determination.

What are they suggesting as treatment?

How is it going, now you understand what you're dealing with?

Mo2

Hopalong

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Re: Hops
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2009, 01:56:15 PM »
Hi M02,
I haven't decided whether or not to try the Rx. I'll be discussing it with my T later this week...

I'm not really startled by the diagnosis. Should note that even the expert said, You do fit the major criteria, "such as they are". Even w/in pschology, there's a lot of looseness about what ADD is. In my case, I'm distractible. There's also an "inattentive type".

I don't know if this is a new journey or not. My first response is well, of course. And, it's a little depressing. Once I process that I may find it a relief. Usually, reality is.

As of now, I loathe the idea of adding a brain Rx to my life. But I might.

Still thinking....I am also willing to do a trial period of Rx just to see what it does. The doc himself had an amazing experience with it.

Permanent bad breath though, yuck. (I had a BF who took ADD Rx...severe dry mouth.)

xo and thanks for asking,

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Hops
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2009, 06:29:40 AM »
I'm hoping the drug trial brings a revelation of energy and focus for you.

As for the dry mouth...... maybe you'll become a sugar free lemon drop sucker too?

CB123

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Re: Hops
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2009, 07:22:20 AM »
Just a thought--found these articles on the web:

The Hunter concept was created and popularized by Thom Hartmann in the 1993 book "ADD - A Different Perception" and the follow-up book "Beyond ADD."  In his book, Hartmann theorized that ADDers were essentially left over hunters in a farmer's world. 10,000 years ago, most people would have had Hunter traits. These traits, such as constantly scanning the environment (for prey), the ability fall into a dream-like state for long periods (during down periods) combined with the ability to become suddenly hyperfocused and thrive on danger and excitement (the hunt), helped these people survive. There was no need to remain focused on boring tasks. Until the agricultural revolution, that is, during which the farmer types outcompeted the hunter types, to the near extinction of the Hunters. Agricultural populations wiped out Hunter populations. Farmers needed to plan ahead and to tend their fields with care. They needed a different sort of temperament; more of a worker-bee personality. Hunters would forget to weed, forget to plant. Hartmann cited evidence that hunter-gatherer populations left on the planet appear to have a very high rate of ADD traits while populations which have been long agriculturilized, like China, have low levels of ADD traits. Hartmann's book was very radical for its time, but was well received by many ADDers as well as some experts in the field of ADD.

In the 1990's, the Hunter isn't looking for an actual Caribou to slay. Instead, he or she is hunting in a metaphorical sense. Hunting for excitement. Hunting for the prize: the cure for cancer or the truth in the theory of global warming. Hunting for the mental or physical stimulation to mimic the hunt of our ancestors. Entrepreneurs are a good example. Schools are designed by and for Farmers, and Hunters have a very difficult time since they are genetically designed to Hunt.


I enjoyed this web page: http://borntoexplore.org/addexp~1.htm#hunterscb
When they are older and telling their own children about their grandmother, they will be able to say that she stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way -- and it surely has not -- she adjusted her sails.  Elizabeth Edwards 2010

sKePTiKal

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Re: Hops
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2009, 09:00:26 AM »
CB:

I found this explanation interesting. I describe my hubby as ADD... and his frequent shopping trips... as "hunting-gathering" runs.

The other thing I've noticed is that there seems to be an emotional component to the behavior. Excitement is one of those components, but there is also a sense of accomplishment - if he finds something at an incredibly low price (knowing how much it is normally priced); like winning a "game". He is very single-minded; almost obssessive when he's looking for something in particular and will inundate me with printed web pages from his "hunt". Looking for praise... like a kitty who brings a captured mouse back to me... "look what I did".

On the other hand, I also thinks he's a "magpie" - the type that's easily distracted/attracted to something pretty, shiny, or fun if it crosses his path. He must possess - not simply appreciate - the "cool" things he discovers. I think it compensates for some past, traumatic losses he's experienced. It re-establishes a positive "frame" of emotions... an equilibrium... for him.

Both of these behaviors have resulted in the massive amount of "stuff" that I'm now sorting and packing, in preparation to move. This "stuff" is both trophy and sentimental for him. It helps that I understand this much (if not all) about him and am not trying to change it - only making him aware of the consequences (for me) of it. I'm hoping that he comes to realize that there are "options" other than the "habit" he's developed over time - and I think he is.

FACT IS... this is one of the very useful and charming aspects of him and as long as it's not "out of control"... it's one of the things I love about him. It can be "fun" for me too... and god knows, I need more fun!!  :D
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Hops
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2009, 11:16:29 AM »
Hi CB,
Thanks for the very thoughtful questions. The thing is, I really don't feel as though I've designed a life that works for me. Rather than managing it well, I feel I have more or less been surviving it unhappily, with compromises and omissions I'm a bit despairing about. Realities such as financial stress (preventable, if I'd had a coherent plan rather than getting the next job I could grab--"hunter" sure applies to my bouncy resume) -- don't defeat me, but the organization, daily tending, practical practices that keep one safer, saner, and healthier...I've failed at those.

Bounced through a hell of a lot of relationships, too.

One thing occurs to me is the craving for stimulation you mention -- seems to me that's a major characteristic. The written report I got sums it up. My lifelong problems with:

completing tasks efficiently
poor follow-through
impulsivity
disorganization
poor focus
poor time management
shifting from one uncompleted activity to another
procrastination
forgetfulness
organzing tasks within the home
excitability

Historically:
struggle with math
flunked a grade (9th--pure despair, just "quit")
disciplined for talking too much
inattentive
distractible

Underlying depression and anxiety are present but do not account for the early onset and breadth of the symptoms. And on the computerized tests, my scores are "consistent with those obtained from adults who carry a diagnosis of ADHD".

None of it has prevented me from being a hell of a writer (present performance excepted!) and editor...when I focus on those I am full-brain functional. But planning a life? Feh. Not so good.

More I think about it, and more I think about how I feel, more I think it'd just make sense to do a trial of the Rx. I can always stop it if the side effects are onerous. And if the effect is life-changing in a positive way, well heck! Life's kind of short and I've been kind of miserable. I've looked up the cheapest, oldest and most generic stimulant that's been used...Consumer Reports has a report on the most effective and inexpensive ADD Rx., so that's what I'll ask for.

Will talk to my T and my family Dr. and see how it goes.

Thanks much for asking.

Dunno if I told y'all this, but the doc's own story was, although very different from mine, extremely compelling. He had struggled in school, acted out, done all sorts of VERY disorganized things (from an adolescent male perspective) and generally felt like a total failure. His family had given up on him. He enlisted and went to Viet Nam, where many of the soldiers were doing all sorts of drugs like M&Ms. Someone handed him a tablet of speed, and 20 minutes later, he felt a shift in his brain, and suddenly he said to himself, "Oh my god. This is what normal feels like." He came back, went to school, became a successful psychologist and ADD expert. Very nice man. Not a pill "pusher" but completely convinced that the Rx are simply fixing a dopamine issue and the results are night and day for many people he works with. (If I refused Rx and just want to deal with it behavorially, he offers plenty of info for that too.)

He suggested these authors and web sites:
Russell Barkley, PhD
Kevin Murphy, PhD
(these 2 are at the forefront of ADD research, he says--they offer many links on their sites)
and books by Ned Hallowell, MD and John Ratey, MD (Driven to Distraction and Answers to Distraction)

One thing I'm happy about is my D decided to be evaluated too. If her results are similar and she could be saved decades of similar frustration from having (and perhaps treating) such a diagnosis, that would make everything worth it, hands down.

She's clear on her boundary though--her Dx and her decision about it are her business. And I agree. I was delighted that she accepted the offer to be tested, though.

Amber, your hubby is so lucky he's married to you. I know many women who are mercilessly critical of their mate's eccentricities. I know how hard it is to be around a packrat, too--my ex was practically a hoarder. It's nice to read how understanding and loving you are about his stuff. That said, he might find his own existence gets happier if he finds out why and how he does all that...maybe he'd enjoy some ADD testing too! (Or maybe he's just exactly fine as he is, lucky fellow.) Do you have common areas in the home he doesn't clutter up? That's the agreement I came to with my D's dad...he could decorate his study to his heart's content (it extended to posters on the CEILINGS when he ran out of wall space), but the LR, DR, kitchen, had to be reasonably uncluttered. Still, it was tough, aesthetically, for me....

Thanks, guys. I didn't know I was ready to write all this out so thanks also to M02 for the nudge.

love,
Hops

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Hops
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2009, 08:07:10 AM »
What a great thread, Hops.

::Waving to CB and Amber::

Mo2

Izzy_*now*

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Re: Hops
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2009, 03:23:56 PM »
Dear Hops,

Your post, Reply #6, with all you personal info on your ADHD is so informative. I found this thread to be a surprise, as I might have missed when this began, and now MO2 coaxed you!

You know, when you mention these things as symptoms, all at once, after having read your individual posts for so long, I can see the Dx, but never would have guessed otherwise. If it were me I would be ecstatic to know there was an answer, rather than wondering why "I was normal and doing all these things".............I can so relate with my own dissociative 'disorder'.

You are intelligent and a good writer, very expressive and understanding, so I am surprised to hear you have a 'disorder' at all!

(My desk, right now, is also in a state of 'disorder'. I see that as that there is no junk, just necessary things, that have a reason to be out of order, for now, will be straightened out, then out of order again. My desk, my mind... and yet I am organized, but a bit more of a procrastinator than before the accident in May.)

Permanent bad breath?  I don't understand. Is this about Rx?

Cheers
Izzy
"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

sKePTiKal

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Re: Hops
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2009, 04:40:35 PM »
Hops - what did you decide to do? And can you tell how it's working out yet?
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

lighter

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Re: Hops
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2009, 05:14:26 PM »
Izz:

About the bad breath......

the drug causes dry mouth symptoms.....

and that can lead to bad breath.

Mo2

Hopalong

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Re: Hops
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2009, 07:57:20 PM »
Thanks, Izzz...I'm glad our songstress likes my writing!
High praise.

PR I dunno what to do. Strangely lethargic about calling the doc.

I've been doing one different thing that's had a notable positive effect,
quite surprising, really:
The Circadian Prescription
A simple dietary change, and I've dropped pounds without trying
and generally feel much much better. Only been a couple weeks, but
I'm interested in sticking with it a while.

I may not act now (or ever) on the Rx...just soooo reluctant.

But if I get the big freelance gig, I'll probably have to, just to keep going.

M02--that's right. Bleahhh. (Controllable, sure, but I've been really
liking being unmedicated, or less anyway...still do Ambien.)

hugs all
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Hops
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2009, 09:05:54 PM »
It's funny timing, but I just had dinner with a friend who was recently dx'd with ADHD, and tried 2 drugs.

She's settled with the Aderol? and her life's very different, in a good way.  The first drug made her fell "fuzzy."

The Aderol helps her focus.

She doesn't take it all the time, just when she really needs the focus.

She doesn't want to build up a tolerance and have nowhere to go from there.

For the most part, simply understanding WHY she's the way she is...... helps her feel better.

She's been coming up with coping strategies her whole life.

Now she knows why she needed them.

(((Hops)))

She also said she's had many conversations with friends dx'd with ADHD, who feel their medications have improved their lives.

::going to google Circadia Prescription::












sKePTiKal

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Re: Hops
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2009, 08:28:35 AM »
I don't know if this has anything to do your reluctance... but I'm tossing it out to you, because of your creativity. Obviously, if the shoe doesn't fit....

Are you a bit afraid that the drug will alter your creativity... or even the "who you are" in an essential way?
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Hops
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2009, 03:22:21 PM »
Good anecdote, M02, thanks for telling me about your friend.
I do hear and read the same thing, over and over.
It's nice to hear that one can use it periodically rather than always...
I didn't realize that.

Amber, I don't think I fear that.
When I had huge anxiety attacks in grad school I feared therapy,
until the old poet (whom I idolized) told me he STILL went for
counseling now and then. He said:

"It didn't take away my poetry, it gave it back!"

Rx is a bit different, but I've been on antidepressants in the past...
didn't lose my essential self.

Stimulants feel more like...a nail gun rather than...stitches.

I'll likely be talking myself into a trial of them soon though.

(I also have bad memories from a few years ago when the PhD I
worked for, who was not my doc and had never tested me in any
way, pressed me to accept his instant dx and medication...so I could
work faster and longer hours on his grant.)

It was so corrupt my own MD threatened to report him. And I did
not like the man. Ethical violations all over, including in his research.

So hearing, several years later, that he was right after all (at least
about the dx)...might be part of my resistance.

The rest of it is just...awww, leave my brain alone. If I didn't have
to work a job and juggle worries I don't WANT, I'd be just fine with
my brain the way it is!

So I feel a bit as though it's medicating myself to make myself fit into
a culture I don't identify with, and to reach goals that aren't really my own.

(That's just whining. I know I have to deal with it all...part of the price
of admission to life.)

thank you for asking.

xo
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

bearwithme

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Re: Hops
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2009, 06:20:15 PM »
Quote
One thing occurs to me is the craving for stimulation you mention -- seems to me that's a major characteristic. The written report I got sums it up. My lifelong problems with:

completing tasks efficiently
poor follow-through
impulsivity
disorganization
poor focus
poor time management
shifting from one uncompleted activity to another
procrastination
forgetfulness
organzing tasks within the home
excitability

Historically:
struggle with math
flunked a grade (9th--pure despair, just "quit")
disciplined for talking too much
inattentive
distractible
 

Hops: I'm really curious now.  To what degree to you have to have these problems to have ADD??  I have all of this but mostly in the workplace and when I was in school.  Teacher's wrote all of this on my report cards.  OMG.  Now I'm wondering If I have ADD?  In the workplace, I have managed to wrangle a hold on completing tasks and follow through (because of deadlines, etc.) but I do procrastinate to the point where I'm under pressure and I feel that I work well when I'm pushed. 

Any insight for me?

Bear