Can't keep my mouth shut

[teartracks]

A question for y'all (that's short for all  o y'all) on this thread.  When you're doing your professional work, for instance teaching, in the midst of it do you do the chatter you regret later?  The reason I'm asking is that as a business woman, I was very professional, didn't worry excessively about saying the wrong thing.  I was well versed and professional in what I was doing and it was a skill I learned on my own as an adult and after leaving the FOO and first marriage.  For the most part, it has only been in my personal, away from work, off time with friends or family that  I do most of my second guessing.  Anyone relate?

tt

[Nonameanymore]

hi tt,

yes i sort of do it.
i am a script doctor and have crossed a couple of boundaries with a person whose script i am doctoring right now.
not anything crazy, it's just that after a while and when i get to know someone better, i sort of fall back to my feeling not good enough and level with him the wrong way, which means i can't really do my job well if I don't keep the boundaries so i can give him feedback.

p

[teartracks]

Yeah, I have that problem. I don't really reveal too much to strangers as much as just feel the need to tell too much in general. For myself, I think it comes from this family weirdness: You were expected to read minds. If you couldn't read someone else's mind, and you didn't know without being told what they were expecting out of you, you were BAD. However, if you just admitted fault upfront (and the N in the family could feel superior) it went much easier with you. So that I ended up spilling my guts about stuff because I have a deep need for people to understand my motives and that they were well-intentioned.

I came from a clan of what could be thought of as mind readers.   One of the clan taught the trait, our Mom.  From almost any encounter from which she may have garnered patchy 'facts', she could weave an entire story filling in the blanks and present them as if they were the gospel truth.  My recall is that growing up, we all believed her fabrications.  I caught on to this trait in her way past my own mid life.  I have very strong intuition.  It's there, but I'd not want to hang my hat on it's  validity without a reliable backup 'second or third source' as the journalists say, especially if I were patching together facts to make a story that I could stand by.  Anyway, coming into mid-life, I found that my intuition (which I think I was born with) complimented what I'd learned at her knee, i.e., filling in the blanks by pure fabrication, much the same way the tabloids do, thereby enticing us to gobble up the latest news as we wait in the check out line.  

Going into recovery, of my many dysfunctions, this was one of the easiest to correct.   I have no desire to indulge in hearsay, or scuttlebut.  This whole process of straightening ourselves out is just that, a process.  One stage, one step at a time.  This thread has given me pause to review one of the steps where my progress has made a difference in how I think.

tt


  

[Nonameanymore]

tt i think i have told you before that most of the times I really identify with what you share
in particular what you write about intuition - the thing i don't like about it is that it warns me about 'bad stuff' usually and i think that my negative thinking sort of attracts that 'bad stuff' that later my intuition picks up. this happens with romantic relationships in particular when my self-fulfilling prophecy 'this won't last' always comes true

something else that i discovered is that my saying too much probably comes as the need to report on what i am doing (i have to give NM a full report), to justify my moves and sometimes in the 'misery loves company' scenario, i have to top up a negative thinking someone is saying. it doesn't have to be something important - someone may say 'i am tired' then i have to say 'me too'.
Maybe this also comes from NM when she would be extremely jealous of something good happening to me, then i would just say something bad that happened to me (or make it up) so she won't feel bad that she doesn't have a nice experience to share (she never did though - it was always the world against her, out to get her)

Gee tt, i never realised the above until now.
how bizarre
this board is amazing!

P

[teartracks]

Hi P,

Thank you for the affirming words.

That's the thing.  I rely strongly on intuition to navigate life.  Because I'd come from a clan of mind readers, my intuition and filling in the blanks with pure fabrication were all jumbled up and dysfunctional well into mid life.  Fabrication is lying.  Intuition is just that and can be justified and or qualified as intuition when communicating.  In other words, if I were relating what on the surface seemed like a reasonable story, but in reality was a combination of intuition, lying/fabrication and a smathering of facts, I could justify the facts and qualify my intuition, by saying, these are the facts I know, they're not comprehensive facts, however.  I could qualify any intuition I have about the matter  as nothing more and nothing less than intuition, giving the other person the opportunity to examine what I've said and draw their own conclusions.  But I don't see how I or anyone could take a few facts combined with a little intuition, then  fill in the blanks with fabrication (lies) and justify or qualify the lies except by saying something like, Oh by the way, the facts I related to you are reliable.  You can draw your own conclusions about my intuition.  But the rest of what I said is pure fabrication.  In my mind, when the story is injected with fabrication, it becomes the proverbial one bad apple spoils the whole barrel.  

tt
PS  For me, intuition is something to use with great discretion.  I don't think intuitives should indiscriminately speak forth what they feel they know inside.  As far as I'm concerned, it's a gift and not one to cast about carelessly.

[Sealynx]

TT,
I frequently share life stories with my classes because I teach a Philosophy based class. However, they are never in the form of justifications as I would share with friends. They are simply stories to illustrate a point I'm making. I will tell colleagues what it going on in my life but again, not the justifications. Those seem to pop up only when the other person is important to me emotionally...the worst place.

[nolongeraslave]

A question for y'all (that's short for all  o y'all) on this thread.  When you're doing your professional work, for instance teaching, in the midst of it do you do the chatter you regret later?  The reason I'm asking is that as a business woman, I was very professional, didn't worry excessively about saying the wrong thing.  I was well versed and professional in what I was doing and it was a skill I learned on my own as an adult and after leaving the FOO and first marriage.  For the most part, it has only been in my personal, away from work, off time with friends or family that  I do most of my second guessing.  Anyone relate?

tt

Same here..Even when I type things, I  constantly re-check them to make sure they don't give off the wrong impression.    My NM's tactics are so manipulative and smart that they seem "innocent" to the normal's eye, when I type it out. 


As for intuition, I agree that it's something you shouldn't advertise. There will be someone there to invalidate you or make you feel crazy, and that leads you to not trusting it.  In so many cases, your intuition is the most reliable and healthy source you have. Who wants to take NM's lousy advice anyway.  

[teartracks]

 P

someone may say 'i am tired' then i have to say 'me too'.

Not wanting to be a guru here, but how would you like your friend to respond had you been the one who first said, I'm tired? 

I can think of a few things that might have worked in my house:

_Oh my goodness, lets sit down and have a smidge of icecream and talk.  That should shed a different light on this tiredness you're feeling!  Then let her talk.
-Or, baby, you've been working too hard.  Lets relax with a glass of tea.  Then let her talk through her tired place.
-Or what can I do for you in this momemt that will help this tiredness pass?  Maybe go for a short walk?

I think I'm getting the impression that it's not so much the tiredness as it is to be heard and be affirmed and encouraged.  What do you think?

tt

[Nonameanymore]

thanks tt. no it's something different.
i feel embarassed sometimes to have something good to say. i feel like i stole the goodness and didn't really deserve it. so i have to pretend i am not ok too because the other person will feel bad.
sick i know.
i am not doing it so much the last 14 years that i am nc (i realised i wrote a couple of things in connection to nm in present tense that is really creepy!) but i remember doing it a lot when i was around her.

P

[Portia]

TT, you have me thinking...
when the story is injected with fabrication, it becomes the proverbial one bad apple spoils the whole barrel.  

I tend to agree. I either trust that you (anyone) have told the truth (as you see it) so far, but should you tell one bare-faced lie in your story, then your whole story is open to question from me. That's pretty much what I think.

For me, intuition is something to use with great discretion.  I don't think intuitives should indiscriminately speak forth what they feel they know inside.  As far as I'm concerned, it's a gift and not one to cast about carelessly.

Golly, I'm trying to think of an example. I don't see intuition as a gift though. I see it as something necessary learned for survival. It's partly about paying very close attention, the sort that seems alien to others, because they simply don't give that much attention to anyone else. Lucky them. What intuitive person speaks forth indiscriminately? It seems contradictory. Can you explain please?

[Portia]

No longer a slave:

Again about intuition, how would one advertise it?  You say - there will be someone there to invalidate you or make you feel crazy, and that leads you to not trusting it - but: what happens when you no longer need validation, and it doesn't matter if anyone tries to make you feel crazy...because you don't give a hoot what they think...because you do trust your own mind?

People hear/read/see what they want to. You can say anything you like and they can think what they like about it. But the vast majority simply aren't paying any attention and the rest - well, if they try to make you feel crazy, and you know it, and it hurts you, remove yourself. They are crazy too.

The few others (if you're lucky) who accept you for the crazy human you are, I guess they're ok. 

[nolongeraslave]

No longer a slave:

Again about intuition, how would one advertise it?

I can only speak from my own experience. When I have told others "I had a gut feeling that (insert situation here)", I was invalidated and made to feel like I was crazy. This was not just by NM, but even some "friends" and exes (who were similar to my NM anyway!)  

These past experiences have made me be careful of who I share my gut feelings with, because I don't want to deal with being trampled on or put down.  

You say - there will be someone there to invalidate you or make you feel crazy, and that leads you to not trusting it - but: what happens when you no longer need validation, and it doesn't matter if anyone tries to make you feel crazy...because you don't give a hoot what they think...because you do trust your own mind?

That's great to feel that way.  I don't think I'm at that stage yet, since it's only been a year away from NM where I am experimenting with trusting myself.  My main concern right now is to not repeat the past, and stay away from toxic people.

But the vast majority simply aren't paying any attention and the rest - well, if they try to make you feel crazy, and you know it, and it hurts you, remove yourself. They are crazy too.

Since I was forced to do things I didn't want to do for most of my life, I have felt that people's "wrong advice" was a way of forcing me?  Does that make sense? If my friend/mom suggested to continue to date a guy that I didnt' feel was right for me..I felt like I HAD to go along with my friend's decision.  I wasn't confident enough to say, "No, I would rather do this" and let my friend have his separate opinion.  
Even if I DID try to stand up for myself, my friends/NM wouldn't take no for an answer. They would still pressure me to see their side, so I just gave in. It was exhausting.

[Portia]

No longer,
I find if I share some feelings with those-who-are-not-to-be-trusted, I find out sooner or later that I was wrong about them: if they try to invalidate me,that says much about them. It tells me I was too trusting.

When I feel confused about what I'm feeling, I think about it a lot. I try not to react too soon these days. Don't always manage it. I guess I might put myself in a position where someone might try to trample me or put me down....but...it's how I deal with it that matters to me. Practice does help. So avoidance doesn't necessarily help me. I might invite someone to try and trample me or put me down, just to check myown reactions, see if I handle it any differently.

I too am experimenting with trusting myself. Does that ever stop? We keep changing (hopefully).

Yes that makes sense. I didn't know myown mind on many things and I too gave in from exhaustion. I don't intend to now. I would rather do things and be very afraid, than be that tired all the time, as I was. Not easy, but much preferable!

[teartracks]

Hi Portia,

Now you have me thinking.  

I think what I was trying to say is that to the intuitive one, it is a gift.  I think people with strong intuition often see through situations in a way that sometimes enables them to reach conclusions quicker, kind of like a zoom forward button.  I think  indiscretion kicks in if they assume others have the same feature in their personality or fault them for not having it.  Others may be perfectly capable of reaching the same or better conclusions using the method that comes most natural for them.  I guess bottom line is that intuitives (not the witchy woman types) should acknowledge and respect all the ways others reach their conclusions and not hit their zoom button and be impatient with another to whom the picture is not so clear yet.  Each one has their unique way and ways of seeing things.  Life in general, I think can be lived more effectively where the most knowledge is applied.  I'm rambling.  See what you think.

Edits between 11 and 12 o'clock!If I had to guess, I'd say that I was born with intuition.  But who's to know?

tt



 

[Portia]

Well TT, I didn't see it as a gift until now/recently, because I didn't trust it and I pushed it down, all the time. I wished I'd listened to myself! So many times. I'd justify to myself why my first thoughts were wrong, all the time.

I respect other's ways. I get annoyed with myself, mainly. I usually sit with something for so long (being a step ahead?) that by the time I explode with a pretty firm judgement, well it can seem that it comes out of nowhere. This has been a problem in the past. I wait until I am sure. Then I can seem aggressive I guess. It isn't meant aggressively, or impatiently. I just keep stuff to myself (unbelievably!!).

I'd like to know more about research into personality. I have no idea what I was born with!