Another layer of the onion

[Gaining Strength]

because I see the best chance for healing as coming from a neurological perspective I am driven to learn more and moe about the brain in general and my brain in particular.

Today among other jewels I discovered this:
Psychological trauma and the brain
http://thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/a/a_08/a_08_cr/a_08_cr_anx/a_08_cr_anx.html
Amygdala
Several neuroimaging studies have demonstrated increased activation in the amygdala in PTSD. However, this finding has not always been consistent. One study demonstrated an association between a history of neglect and lowered amygdala activation. The latter may serve to be adaptive under certain environmental conditions, e.g., it may allow for continued functioning in situations characterized by ongoing threat. The organism may rely on immobilization defenses such as avoidance, freezing, display of submissive behaviors, etc. On the human level, it is not uncommon for persons with an abuse history to seek out abusive relationships, part of what psychoanalysts refer to as the repetition compulsion, without being consciously aware of, or minimizing the dangers involved in such relationships.

After years of using and researching the term "paralysis" I finally find more accurate terms "immobiliaztion defenses".  Now I hope to open up yet another vista to search for the healing.

[Lucky]

Wow Gaining Strentgh I am very impressed with all your research.

[HeartofPilgrimage]

GS, Have you read stuff about disorganized attachment? It sounds a lot like what you are finding in your research. Disorganized attachment is thought to occur in children whose primary attachment figure is either FRIGHTENING or FRIGHTENED. In other words, the child is being emotionally or otherwise abused, so the parent frightens him/her ... or the parent (usually the mom but not always) was an abused child who dissociates and acts unpredictably. Most of the research identifying disorganized children assess attachment about 18 months of age ... and the freezing (what you found called it "defensive immobilization") is one of the responses these kids have when the mom re-enters the room after a brief absence. The kids typically do other things that are difficult to understand --- like sidling up to the mother rather than approaching her directly, with their gaze averted --- or twirling in place --- or doing a stop-start approach, like they're trying to both approach and avoid all at the same time.

If you were a disorganized baby, it's really no wonder that there are so many layers to the onion ... the onion has been adding layers for a long, long time.

We on the message board are here to help in whatever way we can as you encounter the layers.

[Gaining Strength]

Doing things well resulted in stronger amygdalaic response than doing things poorly, which also got a strong fear response but not as strong.

Neuroplastic healing requires a rewiring of these reactions to the stimulous which starts with the mere idea of doing something.  It is becoming clearer and clearer why "paralysis" has been so strong for me.  Rewriting, finding a way to miniize, circumvent or overwrite the extraordinarily strong, lifelong pattern is the key.  Would like to find a way that cuts to it rather than a slow laborious struggle.

Want to move out of "avoidance".  Have a conceptual plan but aware of fear of failing in it.I must expose and acknowledge these fears rather than repress them.  This is an essential step in healing.  It is survival.

[Gaining Strength]

Heart of Pilgrimage - I have never heard of disorganziation  attachment.  I am very interested and willl look it up.  Can you point me in a direction to learn more.  Thank you so much for sharing.

Lucky - thanks so much for your encouragement.

This is a strange process.  I have been 'stuck" for a couple of years now, aware of what happened in my N family but unable to make any shfits.  Understanding the collision between a child's response and an adult's rational perspective has initiated this shift.  I see the possibility of things being thrown open but that lifelong fear response is activated by hope.

That Hope/fear of failure response is one I hadn't seen until I just wrote about it but it is one that must be acknowledged as well.  So thankful for this forum Dr. Grossman.  Very thankful.

[Gaining Strength]

Thanks heart of Pigrimage - I am sure there is some form of attachment issue for me.  I learned early on that neither of my parents would be there for me and in fact that if I "needed" anything that there would be hell to pay.  While my father invoked fear my mother did not.  And while my father was involved with us as children, teaching us sports and values and engaging in activities with us my mother did not.  So it was a very confused relationship with my father in memories.  This confusion was overt but it has taken my decades to recognize the insanely conflicting covert messages.  I longed to attach to my father, longed for recognition, longed to measure up.  With my mother I simply longed to get away.  I begged to go to boarding school for years.  I chose the college that was as far away as i could get etc, etc.

Complicating things for me in terms of sorting it all out there was never any physical abuse and the psychological abuse was well hidden though profound.  It is in the area of psychological abuse that I am fishing for the truth and the healing.   I never spent a day hungry but nor did I have a day of emotional nourishment.

[HeartofPilgrimage]

In the adult attachment interview, there is a place for people to be categorized as "earned secure." In other words, to hear their stories, you know that they did not have secure attachment relationships growing up. However, these earned secure people have done the relationship work needed to be secure in the current attachment relationships. So there is hope.

I'll have to read up some and see if there are any hypothesized ways that people become "earned secure." I know that one way to view going to therapy is that the therapeutic relationship is supposed to be reparative --- a place to learn and practice the give and take of secure relationships. I think other healthy relationships --- even when we just "fall" into them rather than knowing what we're doing at a deep level --- do reparative work too. I also think that becoming aware ... "peeling back the layers of the onion" ... is part of the process of becoming "earned secure."

I don't think I was disorganized --- I think I was more like ambivalently attached to both my parents. That attachment status means that sometimes your parents were emotionally available and sometimes they weren't, and so you learn to ramp up emotional reactions to increase the probability that they're going to be responsive to you. Also, with ambivalent attachment, the child hyperfocuses on the parent --- how will she respond? Will she be responsive (the good mommy) or dismissive (the bad mommy)? Ambivalent attachment is also known as anxious attachment --- there's a possibility but not a guarantee of getting a response from the parent that makes you feel safe and secure.

The third kind of insecure attachment is avoidant-insecure. That's when people learn to suppress --- not even feel --- distress because their mother (or other primary attachment figure, P.A.F.) can't handle their distress. I think this is what happens in narcisssism. They learn to quit feeling distress at a conscious level because it drives their P.A.F. away. And over time, they feel so lonely ... loneliness combined with a lack of awareness of negative emotion = I am lonely because I am sooooo special. Lack of awareness does not mean lack of distress though ... and so starts the dreadful cycle of taking out your distress on others and twisting reality into a pretzel to confirm that you are special.

It reminds me of a quote (from Tolstoy? Anna Karenina?) that says, "Happy families are all alike. But each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

[sKePTiKal]

Want to move out of "avoidance".  Have a conceptual plan but aware of fear of failing in it.

I hear your focus on this. What IF... you took Hops' "sq ft" idea about cleaning and applied it to "avoidance"? When there is fear, I found that breaking down the big goals into very, very small pieces or steps helped me a.) learn more about the fear itself and b.) recognize that the "risk" in failure wasn't so large. I think I had to restrict the number of things I was working with, too... working only in one area at time until I could actually feel the progress before moving on to work in another area.

The actual time and duration varies. Some things triggered the avoidant response for me, more than others. Remember the fear of getting lost, missing my turns, that I had during the long drive I went on last summer? The fear was full of the old "messages" about how it was all my fault that I would miss a turn... and sure enough! I did "get lost" on the way to my friend's house even while I was on the phone with her. I turned too soon... and then we laughed - because after all, it'd been 10 years since I'd been there and the world didn't end because of it.

I get the sense that sometimes, the consequences of my inner feared "failure" are blown way out of proportion - they are life/death - echoing some lost-to-time experience and emotion (those attachment issues that heart & ann mentioned). But in the here & now, really the consequences aren't that extreme. I'm sure as a shaky, vulnerable, sensitive young'en... the shaming & humiliation FELT like life/death to me. Certainly didn't nurture any confidence in myself, I'll tell ya that!

So, when I was driving by myself during the move... there was one turn I wasn't sure about; I didn't have all the visual milestones locked into my memory. Driving down the highway, I realized I'd passed my last "marker" a ways back; I was aware of the signs saying the highway would end soon and still hadn't found my turn. Almost called hubby on the cell for help! But another mile or so, and I started seeing the signs for my turn... and I started to relax.

I know, I know! That's what a GPS is for... but in a way these "driving" experiences are a lot like how I've been navigating through this process, too. Do the research on a map first... know the landmarks... where I'll need to get gas, based on what I'm driving... estimate the time to arrive... and then just get in the car - find my music (VERY important) and then just go! And yes, since driving alone... I get to tackle (even talking out loud) to whatever old crap comes up to "haunt" me.

"EARNED SECURE" is a very interesting concept that I haven't heard of before, Heart. Please share what you find!

[Gabben]

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I have thought about this and thought about this and thought about this.  Without a family , without having grown up in an environment in which parents,
siblings have each other's back the world becomes a very dangerous place.  The resulting and deep damage is debilitating. 

GS - Thanks for your insights and suggestions. I found a pretty dramatic shift the other day in my reaction to a life situation that has repeated throughout my adult life time and time again with the origin being rooted in childhood. It is in part about what you said about the roles that we play as children in the family dynamic. One of my roles as a child was to be my mom's emotional blanket, her shoulder to cry on.

The other day she called my cell when I was out enjoying a sunny Sunday afternoon, a brief stop at the museum and then a matinee, Avatar, before the movie she called in one of her depressed and bitter states, I told her I was just about to go into the movie and would call her back later, she was clearly annoyed with this but accepted it and hung up. As the movie was just about to start I heard myself say "you did not break it you do not have to fix it." As if the burden of worrying, caring and wondering, the feelings of fear stirred in me by her "needy call" just evaporated, I realized that I can still care about her and carry her responsibly but that I did not have to let her pain burden my day, this reaction came easily, and without much effort on my part - it was a first.

It feels as if I am detaching from the unhealty attachment of always being HER mom. The guilt and fears, still mildly there, are diminishing as I begin to see, more fully see myself as a separate person and not responsible for her needs, as I had always felt as a child. It was as if a huge burden was lifted, I hope this translates into other areas of my life where I feel emotionally burdened and powerless, other than prayer, to really make a positive difference to others in need rather than just shrink from responsibility by being overly responsible.

Thanks,
Lise

[sKePTiKal]

Thanks Ann!

I'm going to copy your post over to a new thread, since this seems to be a significant topic. Lots to think about and talk about.

[Gaining Strength]

Going "through" means opening up so much of those feelings and memories long ago repressed.  It is revisiting that pain buried for survivals sake.  Last night I awoke time again after gut wrenching dreams that put me right back in the midst of it all.  But I also gained some insight.  I saw linkages that have not been visible before, linkages that have become clear to me through my rational understanding but these dreams connected them in different ways.

One dream had me in the midst of clutter and dust and one of my brothers.  The judgement and driticism nad put downs were so real.  Then someone came to the door on their way somewhere. In this simple scenario I saw part of how the need to belong and to be part of family, to be loved became linked with the expectation of condemnation and criticism and i saw how that also connected with under-performance, with shutdown.

Now to find the way out.

[Gaining Strength]

Gabben - thanks for sharing that.  That is a fantastic insight.  That is my goal - to feel the powerful trigger, recognize it and be able to chose a different outcome.  I am very glad for you.

[Overcomer]

GS- As I read your posts it felt so familiar.  We really are dealing with the same type of parents.........it is beyond me how those parents can function that way and how after all these years we allow them to hurt us and push our buttons.

My bro and I had a conversation and it was so enlightening.  He said, "none of my friends know who mom is......to them I am not Beth's son, I am me."  Then I realized it.  In all the circles I have been a part of for many years I have been Beth's daughter, but now that I have cancer and they are holding a benefit for me in my home town, I am not Beth's daughter I am Kelly.  Every know me.  No one knows my mom or that she thinks she is important. 

There was a time in my life when I had my own identity.  It was in high school.  Oh, yes, I functioned as her daughter at church and at her work activities but in HS (where she had nothing to do with me, other than to judge my friends because they didn't go to our church.....I shouldn't have been their friends.....) I was me and the outpouring of love towards me by those people further emphasizes that.

So the question is.  Was there a time when you successfully were good and wonderful and fabulous despite them??  If there was, I suggest you run to those people to love and support you.  If you find yourself enmeshed in your parents' circles it is no wonder you are having a hard time releasing from the shame and dread that they heaped upon you.  You are still in "their" world.  Find your own world where you exist to the exclusion of them.

[Izzy_*now*]

Dear GS,

You have been working hard to come to a resolution, and I applaud you for it. So many of us experience and perceive as do others, and some of us have our own ways of explaining ourselves here, and the cause behind it all.

My parents were not good parents at all. They knew nothing about being parents, but then I knew my grandparents and dysfunction began likely even before them. so I just had a bad start, and if mom were stressed then I believe I was stressed even in the womb.

The expression ‘to have someone’s back‘, or support as I refer to it, well there was none of that in the family of 2 parents and 5 kids. Living on an isolated farm, we had only ourselves to deal with, plus interaction with schoolmates when finally of age to attend., but we were ‘squabblers’.

For myself, I expect that I must have thought that my parents were always right as they were older and were ‘Mom and Dad.’. I was never told personal things about growing up, having a career, a goal, where I excelled, and at 17 knew I was on my own. I retrospect I believed that everyone else knew what to do--even knew what I wanted/felt (could read my mind,) as I didn’t know that all people are different.

Siblings always on the outs with one another, and parents showing no affection or love.

If I map out a chunk of time whereby I felt the most comfortable with myself, it was after I left my daughter’s father and before the car crash---66-69.

Now that I am through with Ns (and I didn’t know how to handle N-son-in-law) I look back at the N I chose --from his ’good guy’ mask and the life we were to have together.  In retrospect, I realize I left Ontario to come out here, get away from everybody who had anything to do with that old life, but had to pay with 4 years with an N, for my choice!

I email with only one sister and she is coming out next month, regardless of knowing what a terrible hostess I will be, with pain and tremors etc. My first instinct was to tell her to not come but I knew that would hurt her and I realize she knows I am ‘out of commission’ so I hope it all goes well. She is not an N, but I prefer to be alone now and feel like I am now worth something …..to the people at the organization for which I’ve worked for 5-6 years.. The girl who took over the bookkeeping when I quit after  last year’s accident is easy to get along with, and even said I was well thought of at the organization… and to the gals who come to care for me at home.

…and that reminds me that all my life I wanted to have my own life that didn’t include any member of my family, i.e. have girl-friends and boy-friends without having take them home to be approved of, as I felt my friends might just come away thinking my family was nice (Sunday best behaviour) and why would I say things derogatory about them? They were well-respected in the community!

Now my sister is going to meet my therapist, and home care person and they better not think that she is “better than I’. I would croak!!!!! at this late date of getting my act together.

For me the answer was No Contact.--out of sight, out of mind!!

Love
Izzy

[Gaining Strength]

Another shift - in the form of a a dream last night.  When i come back here tonight i will have a complete breakthrough to report.

The dream was very complex and I only remember very small segments but I know that threads of one dream were pickedup and moved through to another through at least 4 dreams.

In the first I had a dream in a dream and there was an image of a gentle rabbit.  In the next dream I was with my maternal grandmother and i had a dream interpretation for her (about the rabbit of my first dream). 
then another dream collided in and my mother was talking to my grandmother and my presence was simply fading from consciousness.  But I spoke up, even though I was not present to them.  I spoke up because I knew that I had a truth whether they heard or acknowledged it.

The next dream, I was on my way somewhere and I came to an intersection.  I had been on a small rural, unpopulated lane and suddenly I came to a superhighway, interstate intersection where I had to descend down a hill on a multilaned road but I could not simply select my path.  Instead I had to go to an authority in blue (sort of like a TSA agent) and it appeared that i must get clearance before I could go on.  My son was with me and I did not have my driver's liscence.  I was afraid that I was going to be stopped and that my son, who moved out ahead, would be separated from me.  As I pulled up to my authority in blue and opened my purse and pulled out the case where I would have kept my liscense, I suddenly knew that all was OK, that the rabbit of the dream interpretation was related to the clearing of the path ragardless of what person or authority figure stood before me.  The barriers were in appearance only.

Fear is my only barrier.