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[flower]

 Hi wondering and everyone,

 Hi wondering,

Thankyou for your thoughful post and for sharing your story.    

I still have a fear of authority and I believe that is a justified, rational fear.  While not everyone has a parent with NPD, most were raised the same and I believe most families - maybe even all families - have narcissistic tendencies.  

I agree with this kind of fear of authority you mention above and I am wary of those in power.   The way I am not afraid of authority is this way: I will strongly resist attempts of human authority  to dictate my beliefs and intimidate me by their influence. Also someone with the trappings of authority will no longer pull the wool over my eyes. (They'll have to work harder anyway   ) So, it seems to me that this fear and lack of fear are really about the same thing: questioning authority.  IMO

I was such a miserable child that I chose not to have children myself. I clearly recall thinking that I didn't ask to be born and I was really tired of being blamed and held responsible for everything when I had no control over anything.

I respect that choice you made.

I was the scapegoat of my family. This made me the parent of only one child for nine years before I had another child. The rivalry promoted and encouraged in the  family I grew up in was so traumatic that I didn't want to even deal children's arguments. Then I had the yearning again to have a baby and I didn't escape the argument thing .
 

About belts and laughing:

Thank you all for yet another revelation.  One of the worst memories I have is of being asleep and having my Father come in and start hitting me with a belt.  If you aren't safe in your sleep when can you ever rest?

I have a memory of my sister and I laughing and laughing at a joke and being silly and my dad taking a belt to our bare legs until we cried and begged him to stop. I still remember how it feels, the sting...

[Ellie]

...

[loubaby]

The Nmother, exactly a year ago, put $15,000 (yes, those are THREE 0's) in our acct.  With no permission, warning, nothing.  Then called so tickled with herself.

after we barely removed it at credit union, she started sending envelopes.  ALL envelopes, whether to children or me, were returned marked "RETURN TO SENDER."

NOTHING stayed here.  That way she keeps getting the message that NOTHING, not money, not emotional crap, will change what I have told her, which is GO AWAY AND STAY AWAY.

My children want nothing to do with her.  Not only have they heard how she treated me, they have been butts for her cold, nasty comments all of their lives.  My two surviving sibs (youngest brother committed suicide nine years ago) still enmeshed with her.  So they have dropped me, too, but via ME saying, If you suck up to her, please leave me alone.

This is because my sister says they weren't "perfect" parents.  THat's lumping them in with your average loving, trying, caring parents--that I will not do.

Evil.  Pure and simple.

And both sibs allow her around their kids.  Even with comments directly at them, excuses always made.

It's one thing for adults to put up with it, but when the grandkids are subjected to it, that's when it has gone on too long.

And there is no way for her to stop.

I also write at a borderline board...she's got so much of both of these disorders spread all over her life.  Still learning about it...

[Overcomer]

Hi Ellie, Flower, etc...........I have been on a business trip so I have been reading this thread with interest.................looks like others are interested, too!

My advice, just based on my own experience (so far..)  is to let the kids have access to the Ngrandparents................IF................they don't treat your kids like they treated you.  You know, my daughter seems to think that I "play the victim."  In fact, she said that she and grandma agree that I "play the victim."  But even if she and grandma think I'm bad.....THEY have a great relationship.  My Nmom treats my kids really well - it's ME who gets the brunt end of her disapproval.........everyone else is a-ok in her eyes.  

Then I had an awakening while on the business trip - you know how I can't stand working "for" (with) my mom?  Well, I decided that I would stop requiring her approval for things around work.  If I want to work a different schedule, I am going to work a different schedule.....etc.  (Oh, sorry, I kind of wandered there..................)

So basically....................if Ngrandparents want to give kids stuff and have a "relationship" with them, then fine........................IF they don't taint those kids.......................................

[wondering]

Your Grandmother is manipulating your daughter.  There is no way that contact with her will not affect her somehow.  That doesn't mean that I am suggesting no contact; only you can decide what is best for your family.  

I would at least limit contact though.  

Children are far more perceptive than many adults realize so do what you can to avoid speaking badly of others and let them draw their own conclusions.

[Anonymous]

Yeah.  I guess if my daughter said "Grandma and I both think you play the victim.............." then that stands to reason that they are talking negatively about me.  Honestly I think it is a little too late to nip that one in the bud.  The younger girls are easier to protect but since my firstborn was raised during my completely controlled years and was part of the brainwashing.....................and she is a little clone of my mother, it is so much more difficult to "unbrainwash" her.  So basically, I'll let her and grandma have a special relationship.............and she is soooo strong willed that I do NOT see my mom able to manipulate her...........

Believe me, she may grow up to be a close minded, set in her ways adult but I think she'll grow up to make something of herself.......partially because Nmom gives her positive reinforcement (as do I) so her self esteem is not damaged.  kdckm