Infantilisation

[swimmer]

I encountered this web page while looking at a DONM site:

http://daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/infantalisation.html

Any of you guys have memories resurging in your adulthood of your NM not letting you grow up and making the world seem very scary without them?

As my toddler is developing, I have these very vivid flashbacks of how my NM would appear to be loving, but in reality was trying to teach me to fear the world.  Saying you can't do that, or you won't like that... Or if you do this, that will happen (& "that" was never anything positive).  Or refusing to encourage me through a fearful moment....

I remember as a 3 or 4 year old being terrified of using the escalator going down. Once I stepped on one of the lines and to my suprise 1 surface became 2 steps!  I think of my daughter learning the stairs and on the playground, there are many fearful moments and falls..... But she recovers and moves on and feels soo proud after being consoled, kissed and encouraged my myself and her dear Father.  The last 2 months I've been thinking this through .... I think my mother deliberately did not console me so I would lack confidance, furthermore she didn't wipe my tears and tell me I could do it.  Luckily I grew up with lots of aunts and uncles, and my father.

Whenever people were talking about history or politics, or anything.... She would say, ohhh you wouldn't understand, and ignore me.  There is a name for this & it's called infantilisation.

If any of you can to I'd love to hear your experience, this is an area I really feel isolated in.
  

[nolongeraslave]

Let's just say I frequently get angry  and amazed at how EASY it is to live in the real world, and how much nicer people are than living with NM. 

NM used the classic "The real world is dangerous out there. Nobody will like you. You're going to mess up. You're going to get raped and mugged. You need me to survive. You need me to define your self-worth" to keep me living with her. My mom is using the same tactics on my older brother, who is in his 30's. The poor guy CAN live on his own, but she has brainwashed him that he can't.  He has done remarkable things on his own..things that my NM wouldn't have the guts to do.

My mom also moves from infantilization to parentification. One minute, I'm a baby that has to do what she says (b/c she's the mom). The next, I'm supposed to take care of her emotional needs as if she were the child.

I know what it's like to feel alone, because the "normals" would say "Maybe something is wrong with you that your mom has to say that. Why don't you act like an adult and then your mom will start treating you like one?" PLEASE.  My mom will try to infantilize me as long as she's alive.

The only way to deal with is to stay away from her and keep limited contact.

[Sealynx]

My mother made us afraid of everything and everyone. She drove the joy out of our lives. For 25 years I lived in New Orleans, a very dangerous city. I would often go out alone and come in during the small hours of the morning. Nothing ever happened to me. Our home was robbed once but no one was there at the time. I would love to say that this proved to me that she was wrong and I have completely thrown off the effect of her constant fear-mongering. It has not.

It affects me most, not on dangerous streets where I can be watchful and scream or run to my car, but when getting to know people. Since my father died, who was the saner of the two, I often wake up in the morning with a few moments of free floating anxiety. There is absolutely no reason for it. I have earned full retirement and bought a small house I can afford even if I had to quite work. I live in small town house community with many retired people who frequently walk the small neighborhood. There is literally NO crime in our area, the fire department is across the street and the police will show up almost immediately if you need them.

Even so, when I wake up I have to chase away that feeling...Sometimes I think it is more an absence of joy and the thought that I will never fully be able to experience it than fear of something in particular.

[swimmer]

Nolongeraslave, I've had that experience of parentification as well.  This happened mostly when I went way to college and the last year in highschool (& of course on and off my adulthood, depending on whether I'm NC at the time.  The more I grew and developed, th more she would lean on me. I'd like to start a thread on that soon.... She once called me her "myname therapy" in an email.

I shouldn't cry over split milk at this point, but I was sooo naive when I first moved out.  My mom and GC brother were always so concerned for me, and once said this was love.... That nobody will ever love you like we do.....Well they are right!  It's pretty oddball!!  Also she was saying we as if she was a life partner with my brother....sick. 

I'm so feeling it now in this rough economy we've been in the throws of for the past 2+years.  Nothing about the way I grew up would ever prepare me for this.  She never talked about the Great Depression, or anything in history.  Only her views about what is right in front of her.  My mother NEVER talked to me about life in general as it happened.  There was nothing to learn from, cause I was xcluded from every conversation.  Literally EVERY one.  My Dad took issue with this and would pick his battles of when to stick up for me.  Then they divorced and died shortly after when I was 13. 

Thanks for listening.... I'll write more soon thx:) Sealynx for your sharing.... This topic is hot for me now, and is literally exhausting my psyche.... 

[bearwithme]

Just the word that my NM instilled in me which in fact destroyed my younger years. F-E-A-R.

Oh my.  This is too much.  I need to come back after some deep breathing excercises.

I'll be back..
Bear

[bearwithme]

[scream]

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[that felt good] sorry for the loudness.

[JustKathy]

"The real world is dangerous out there. Nobody will like you. You're going to mess up. You're going to get raped and mugged."

EXACTLY what my mother did to me. In fact, one of the reasons that I never had children was because of the many years that NM spent convincing me that I would die in childbirth. As soon as I got my period, she started in on me. I think it was her way of keeping me away from boys, and ultimately, sex. She told me horrible gruesome stories about giving birth to me, and how she almost died, begged them to kill her, etc. She was constantly showing me statistics on mortality rates of petite women and childbirth, even clipped out obituaries of local women who died giving birth. By the time I left home, I was TERRIFIED of getting pregnant. I did seek therapy, but was never fully able to get those thoughts out of my head. By the time I did, I was over 40, and too old to have kids anyway. Now NM has the nerve to complain that she has no grandchildren. 

[Twoapenny]

This thread has really got me thinking, because my mum kind of did the opposite.  We weren't allowed to be scared of anything and were never taught that anything was bad or wrong or dangerous.  I think about this particularly with regard to my teenage years when I was out drinking, accepting lifts off men I didn't know, hitchhiking all over the place and so on, all of which my mum knew about.  I was on drugs for a long time and often used to end up going off with a group of guys at the end of a night out to carry on partying at their house.  When I look back now it's a miracle nothing bad ever happened to me because some of the situations I was in were so dangerous.  I went off travelling at 18 and my mum didn't bat an eyelid or make any kind of suggestion about what to do about money or return tickets or anything like that.  I had a one way ticket to a country I'd been to on holiday once and about £100.  As far as childbirth goes, according to my mum it isn't a big deal and anyone who makes a fuss about it is a bit of a wimp.  I don't know why she was like this, but it was almost like we brought ourselves up.  She cooked and cleaned and looked after us well in that respect but I can honestly say I don't remember a single time when she gave me any advice or asked me anything (like how I was getting home after a night out, for example).  I can remember going off to school discos and asking friends if their dads could take me home at the end of the night because my parents would take me there but not collect me - it was a five mile walk from our house.  She knew I bunked off school but never asked why or what I was doing when I wasn't in school - in fact she used to write me notes saying I was ill so I wouldn't get into trouble.  She's always taken the mickey if I've ever admitted to being scared of anything and made fun of me for it - even quite serious stuff like a cancer scare when I was in my early twenties - I told her I was scared I had it and I would die and she just told me not to be stupid.

[nolongeraslave]

This thread has really got me thinking, because my mum kind of did the opposite.  We weren't allowed to be scared of anything

My NM did this too. It was a catch 22, and she contradicted herself. 

"The world is scary, but you're a wimp if you act scared!"

"It's okay for ME to be scared, but you're not allowed to be scared. You just have to do what I tell you to do."

Let's not forget how NM's put us in dangerous situations, yet preach about safety and how much they care about us. 

The whole situation didn't make any sense. 

[Sealynx]

Twoapenny,
Sounds like your N mom was the ignoring type when you were younger. I think the key element is lack of concern for your ultimate well-being. Whether it was through neglect or fear mongering doesn't really matter, in the end there was no adult there to guide us. I was out drunk every weekend with friends when I was in high school. She never bothered to double check my stories or even come close enough to smell my breath. If I could make it through the door I was home free.

I thought they just trusted us too much, I now see she just preferred  to have us out of the house so she could do things with other adults. It is interesting that my mother insisted on giving me a senior party even though I told her it was a very bad idea to get my friends together and serve lots of alcohol!! She refused to listen and put hundreds of dollars of liquor on a flimsy aluminum table. Of course that ended with a sea of broken bottles!

[swimmer]

It's interesting the differences in this thread, and the same common theme taught by N parents.... That the world is not safe.  I remember challenging my mom on this in my teens, and would say what do you mean?  She would just come up with a more scary story to freak me out.  It's the whole stir up drama drill. 

The more I'm watching my daughter grow up, the more I realize how much fear I had as a child.  I think the older I got, the better it got for me in little ways, as I had more adult role models in sports, church and school. 

It's kind of scary, but sometimes I wonder if my temperment is fearful by nature, or did my mom project herself on me?  I'm very adventurous as an adult and am very social.  I climb mountains and ski and all sorts of stuff..... my Dad taught me how to be adventurous.  Sometimes I just think ........my childhood would have been a blast of fun, but my mother had to project her pathetic self on me.

An N parent cannot make you something else though, right? 

[Ales2]

I relate to this post quite a bit - but not so much in infantilization, but its older sibling learned helplessness. Deep down I feel like when I cut ties with her that there will be no one in my life that I can trust to support me (and I dont mean financially - I mean emotionally, with encouragement) yet its quite a paradox, because she does not support me in any way, never really has, she consistently undermines me to keep me dependent on her (mostly emotionally) at this point. I've tried many times to break away from her (I'm almost done with her now) but always have this haunting feeling inside, kind of like something you'd be afraid to throw away, because while its not perfect, if you can't get it back - its gone forever and you might need it one day.

Rationally, I can look at all that I have done and overcome in my life already, but I am alone (single) and I've never had the person behind me to back me up (on my soulmate list is #3 - assertiveness, can understand, accept my NM and back me unconditionally when necessary) so that last tie is very hard to cut, but I know its necessary.

Part of my trust issue with others is that I don't feel safe, I don't feel supported and I don't feel assertive enough myself to protect myself and boundaries.
Its part of why I'm still single ....

[Logy]

Absolutely agree with everyone whose NM taught them to be afraid of everything.  NM is afraid of everything - sickness, flying, driving, etc. etc.

Ales2.  you made a comment that I think I spent the first third of my life yearning for.

"Rationally, I can look at all that I have done and overcome in my life already, but I am alone (single) and I've never had the person behind me to back me up (on my soulmate list is #3 - assertiveness, can understand, accept my NM and back me unconditionally when necessary) so that last tie is very hard to cut, but I know its necessary. "

I understand how badly that is needed.  I think I was addicted to relationships when younger, hoping someone could cure me from NM.  I gave up my soul to each person I attached to, hoping they were the answer to my pain.  But ultimately I just felt more abandoned.

One time.  For 5 years.  I had that support.  Someone who was my backbone, who looked to my strengths, not my weaknesses.  Who loved me.  ME!  Flaws and all.  It was a blessing that I will never forget.  When he passed away, I was devastated but felt his strength with me every day.

He was a gift from the universe.  I had relief.  Then I had to go on and deal with NM.  And it came down to me.  Did I value me???  I still had the same NM issues.  They went on for 15 additional years.  He was a respite for a time.  I still had to depend on me in the end.  And go through the growing pains.  Discover my strength to be able to stand up for myself.

(by the way, single is ok.)

[river]

swimmer said:

 She would say, ohhh you wouldn't understand, and ignore me.  

I do have one of those, quite a yuky one ....
she was talking to my then partner in this sycophantic way that she often used with men, (the ones she didnt denigrate that is), I said something to join in the conversation and she came out with that identical phrase.....

actually, I remember after that going out the back in the communal gardens and wishing I could be attacked, .... I think the yuky internal stuff this left me with would have felt much 'relieved'  by being acted out in a non-incestuous external attack. (I mean thats how my psyche tried to rid itself from what was essentially incesstuous - as she was flirting withmy partner),  that little example is such a clear freeze frame of how my life was affected.  these memories can leave one just a tad raw feeling!  

[swimmer]

Thx for sharing river.... My NM would do this with boyfriends I had as well.  She tried to with my husband.... He sniffed something rotten right away. I feel your pain river,  I know that awwwful feeling river, being dismissed is about the most painful experiences.  Not many people admit to seeing mistreatment like this, if it's seen at all.  It's a really cheap move for power, or pseudopower.... Another delusion....