Hobug

[sKePTiKal]

the passive-aggressive snark ...

Two words: hydrogen peroxide!
(these bites can get infected easily - follow with anti-bioNic).

[Hopalong]

Izzy...”That is some undertaking after 54 years!”

Best
Christmas
gift
for
you
ever!

KUDOS!

Hops (been there)

[Hopalong]

Thank you, Lighter. You're right, it is okay.
So much caretaker-guilt got triggered by it...if I think about it, that's exactly how Nmom controlled me all those years. Constant little messages that conveyed: You're not being a good-enough daughter and I want MORE atteNtion. Nothing's enough! And with Gennulman, it's you're not being a good-enough friend (despite lots of attention). He's not an N, but he certainly is using the same communication technique...passive aggression...that she did.

Vewy, vewy twiggewing.

(Izz, I was responding to your Member Stories update...which you'll get, of course. Just thought I'd plop it here.)

And PR-- har!    Good one.  And it's a noun, too!

love to everybody,
Hops

[debkor]

Hey Hops,

I had once posted a link for an article:: Narcissim in a bottle.  Living with addiction is like living with narcissism. 

Of course you were triggered.  Of course you are familiar.  And he is not N but he does have an addiction. 

He is alright 90 percent of the time ...so what's the other 10 percent?

I see that 10 percent....You.  A healthy you.   I am your friend.  I am not your addiction.  I will resepct my boundaries and enforce them.

It's not you not being a good enough friend.  His friend is his bottle (and in the bottle) floats narcissism even if he's not an N.

Know what I mean, Hoppy?

You get it.  He don't.

Don't feel guilty.  You have been a good friend.  You have understood (Narcissism) and you (are understanding) narcissism in a bottle (even if he's not a true narcissist)
feels like living with narcissism, right?

If I am way off track here....Just slap me.

Love
Deb

[Hopalong]

thanks, Deb...I looked at it again.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-tian-dayton/narcissism-in-a-bottle-th_b_249418.html

My friend is so mild-mannered and unassuming most of the time (he describes himself as selfless --not at all concerned about his own life--and really, in many ways that's true). Most of the time he is content as long as he has something to do...volunteers for everything at church and seems very comforted every time he's asked to do something--reports it in great detail. I almost have gotten the sense that it reassures him that he exists, but if something external isn't arranged so he can say, "I am the volunteer for this, I am the person who does that", he sinks again. Back to the bars.

It doesn't help that he lost his driver's license years ago, so his social circle is greatly affected by location. He can walk to his sister's and to the church (and at a longer walk, to my place). But he limits himself that way. If someone wanted to hire him, they have to fetch him and provide the tools.

He's not abusive. But I do think that clutching and nasty resistance to me not going along with his mental image that we should be together during holidays is, in a very passive way, pretty aggressive. (D'oh!)

So we all have our labels, like old slippers (I have an alphabet of them too) -- his are a mix of alcoholism, maybe a mild form of Asperger's, some OCD, and I'm not sure what else.

I feel sad for him but I do realize that despite the good moments and feelings, it has become toxic. So...I'm letting go. I'll continue to care for him in the context of being a fellow member of a church community, but I'm not going to try to be his close pal any more. Tuition's too high.

Thanks, Deb.

love to you,
Hops

[lighter]

Time to say yes to healthier things, Hops.

So..... what's the latest in your brother's bid for your home, contents and access to inner sanctum?

Last I remember, he wasn't to come in the house, but I can't tell if that's wishful thinking or really happened.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

It's all over but the sale, Lighter (which may take a loooong while), and his stuff was shipped.
He didn't even come to town.

whew,
Hops

[lighter]

Whoo hoo.

So glad you didn't have to endure his violation of sacred space.

I hope finalizing the deal brought some peace.

Light

[sKePTiKal]

So, Hops....

there is a whole universe of "what's next", isn't there? choices, choices, choices...

I hope you're able to take your time making them, listening for that small compass voice within to find a direction that's a great fit for you. I hope you're able to breathe in the change-energy of winter - the cold, crisp clean ice & snow & wind (I keep thinking of Andrew Wyeth's winter paintings) that sweeps away the clutter from last year (mental, emotional, leaves) and starts to draw toward you the soft, warming, greening up of spring and another abundant creative "flowering".

You've been on "pause"; dealing with your mom's passing, and all the details & drama that brought... your D and the changes in that area... still outward/other focussed... while you concentrated on the necessities of life, for yourself. WHEW! That's a lot, huh? And it's all still rolling along... pretty well complete... some more to go yet... almost there.

So, I wonder what's next in "Hops' Great Adventure"? You talked at one time, about trying to find another job - is that still something that makes sense? I know you like to travel - any plans (near or far in time)? Something new sounding like it might be fun to try? Have you had a chance to sit with the question: what do I want? It's an interesting exercise, because you'd think there are going to be answers... clear, definite, specific answers... like when one was younger. Maybe your answers will be clear. Mine are fuzzy, indistinct, teasing/tempting... without any clear "hook" of connection in them. Like the dream I had of aisles and aisles in a supermarket of blank canvases of all different sizes, depths and shapes. That was all - just shopping, not buying. The kind of stuff that makes ya go "huh"... or "whodathunk it"? ya know...

I get the sense that a bunch of things are completing for you... which means of course, that another whole batch is getting ready to launch... so I wondered if you had any idea what this might be yet.

[Hopalong]

Have you had a chance to sit with the question: what do I want?

Thank you a lot for this, PR...it's exactly what I need to be doing more of. I think having you remind me, reminded me that I do not need permission to think about this! (Sounds weird, I know.) But it was important to read that. I often need help with the obvious. (One signifier of some of the grief and depression issues for me has been, or so I told my T, I am having trouble being interested in my own life.)

But when I do care and do connect with my own life force, the question is essential. YES, I want a different job. The disrespect, entrenched sexism, ongoing exclusion from advancement (despite record profits) and most especially the climate of worship-the-guru generated by my Nboss -- these are not things I want to expend my last working energies in, until I go facedown in my keyboard at 75.

I am doing things about it. Will report more later.

But thank you for the reminder that to sit with "What do I want?" is where it all begins. Amazing how much noisy surf in my head can prevent me from asking the question -- or giving up on asking it believing the answers will be inaudible.

Not so. I need to try and try again.

xo
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Well, yer most welcome Hops!

I'm going through asking myself the same thing. Maybe we'll compare notes later, in another thread.

[Hopalong]

Thanks, PR.

This is a tough time. All my brave measures flop at times and I just feel decked.

Ah well.

I will rally, I know that.

xo
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

I'm coming to the conclusion - though it's taking a very long time - that the idea that one can dream up a "plan" and execute it exactly as designed - is an N-illusion that's pretty common. A plan is more a compass point... and the destination we're seeking is the journey itself. But the journey can't be the "be all - end all" either... somewhere in there is us; noticing, appreciating, resting, lending a hand, sharing a kindness... for no other reason that we're taking up space on the planet with others who are, too.

So there's room for randomness, surprises, "unintended consequences", etc.

Keeps it all interesting, huh?

[Gaining Strength]

(though I absolutely benefitted from his eagerness to be enmeshed for two years, and so I feel guilty now that I'm trying to pull back).

I know yo wrote this some days ago but I read this sentence and stopped right there to comment.
DO NOT FEEL GUILTY.  This is a boundary issue - pure and simple.  You are setting boundaries which you were NEVER allowed "en famile".  You feel guilt because you were trained to feel guilt when you drew your boundaries instinctively I suspect.

Let me share something with you that happened just today.  It was so illustrative of just this point.
My little boy and i stopped by my mother's briefly on our way to meet a friend for lunch.  She said, as she often says, in a passive aggressive way that I cannot convey via words, (to my child) "Are you going to give me a kiss."  He begrudgingly complied and came outside angry.  He felt forced.  I told him that he had permission to say, "not right now" and keep on trucking.  I explained that she had just crossed his boundaries and was inducing guilt but that guilt did not belong to him and he had every single right to say, "no", politely but firmly.

You and I and so many others simply were not given that permission nor that insight or understanding.  You are drawing that for yourself and you have every single right to say "No" and NOT feel the guilt that you were taught to feel when you draw yoru appropriate boundaries.

Thinking of you. - GS

[Gaining Strength]

Jeez. I need to do better at it myself. I'll say, I have no trouble TELLING him a boundary, but I do have difficulty not getting upset when he TESTS the boundary. IOW, I feel quite angry when he keeps sort of obsessively returning to it. Part of it is not his fault--something about his wiring means that he is genuinely upset when anything changes. He does NOT like it when a friend or a family member retreats or isn't as close as they were. So he's uncomfortable with ebbs and flows.

I could have more sympathy, except that he retreats into a sort of passive-aggressive position from which he fires snarky little criticisms about being a "real friend" that make me feel guilty (what if i AM an N? Maybe I AM a horrible selfish person?). And that triggers my own boundary/identity fears and I react by withdrawing even further.

I have these thoughts. (Still haven't read past this post so you may have some great or even similar suggestions or thoughts.) I think you are doing very, very well on the boundary stuff.  your's are very clear to you and you are trying to make them clear to him.  As you said he said - he has none.  He (having none) wants you to have none and you having none of it are getting a 2 year old passive aggressive tantrum from him.  You having been raised by a perpetually 2 year old tantruming bioNic are getting triggered by his guilting behavior.  Perhaps it would be possible to use these interactions with him as a sort of lab in which you can practise experiencing this 2 year old, boundaryless passive agressive stuff and not reacting as strongly to it or reacting differently to it or even imagining what a nurturing mother might do to help you deal with a boundaryless person.  or you can just ignore my muddlings which is a good choice as well. lol.