Author Topic: Finding voicefulness......losing......finding.....practicing..  (Read 51923 times)

Meh

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Re: Make-over my whole life...... or finding voicefulness
« Reply #150 on: March 10, 2011, 06:38:22 PM »
Today I found out that the director wants the grant today even though the deadline wasn't until the end of next week. She never told me she would want it by today so I think there are some communication problems. It wasn't complete and I thought maybe she is sort of ticked off at me. I gave it over to her in outline/brainstorm form. In reality that is probably best because she likes to edit extravagantly. I don't know how much I am helping or not but she keeps giving me more stuff to do. Exciting stuff.

Oddly, one of the other community groups hasn't fulfilled an important key piece and I offered to help...but I think they are the group that has the paid intern.

I'm sticking with it despite it not being a wonderfully organized effort. I get bogged down with a careful mind that wants to really get all the little details figured out so it takes me longer to "get stuff" sometimes. I forwarded an article to the director that I thought would be helpful for the project and she said it was a good article for her to have because she had no idea about a particular community concept---it's actually what the grant is all about. So I don't know if that made me feel better knowing that the director doesn't even fully get it or not--one thing is for sure, some people are more comfortable throwing themselves into something feet first. I pretty much have to measure all around and stick a telescope there before I tip toe in... not leap in. I noticed that all of the documents she produces have errors in them and she likes to chit-chat about random stuff A LOT during times that are focus times. So it's a challenge in different personalities. I think what I have learned is that I need to know what to ask for (all of the supporting documentation) way ahead of time. I have never been comfortable "winging it", EVER. That is sort of my control freak part.    

Surprisingly to me the director offered me another grant to work on!.......so...um.....I think that is yay!?.... It is YAY!!!... I'm GLAD!!!!

I'm pleased and trying to forgive myself for not perfecting the first grant. BUT in the process I did find a new inspiration for something else that I think is very cool.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 06:56:49 PM by Muffin buster »

Meh

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Re: Make-over my whole life...... or finding voicefulness
« Reply #151 on: March 10, 2011, 07:07:36 PM »
These community projects and this director's "winging it style" make my head swim so I take that as a sign that I'm learning something new.

I thought about knitting and how when I taught myself there were points that I agonized over --a feeling like I was literally squeezing out new brain cells--THE Struggle part--or labor part. Then I got over it--- and I knew---AND I thought "why did that seem so hard?"

So I remind myself of this when I struggle. To be obsessively passionate is good motivation but to do it with some detachment to the outcome is the hard part.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 07:09:23 PM by Muffin buster »

sKePTiKal

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Re: Make-over my whole life...... or finding voicefulness
« Reply #152 on: March 11, 2011, 08:49:45 AM »
I hope you enjoy this, Muffin! It sounds like you're a valuable asset to the group and learning things yourself all at the same time. Synergy!

I can kinda relate to both personality styles you've described - your very careful, document, back up, explore and know the facts self... and the "winging it" director. I guess I can sorta shift between the two or something like that. The "winging it" side of me shows up less often, but looking back at the times I was making big decisions on the fly... faced with brand-new information and no time to research or "decide"... I don't do too badly. And I found this to be a thrilling kind of fun - like a roller-coaster ride. And it builds a trust and confidence in myself - a simple (and really complex to parse into it's parts) feeling that eluded me for years & years.

But I never, ever saw myself as being that kind of person. Asking me to wing anything would cause a panic attack. I would've described myself as being the one who agonized over every comma and phrase... who wanted to always make something as perfect, right and true as possible. I was always so afraid of making a mistake, getting something wrong - and even choosing wrong. But the other kind of experience above eventually got through my thick head that hey! It's not fatal - nor will the world come to an end - if I make a mistake or choose wrong. I can fix a mistake, deal with what consequences it caused. I can change my mind about my decision...

That realization helped me a whole lot. It's like lowering the risk level. In my mind, I'd raised the level of risk so impossibly high that I scared myself to death and put way too much pressure on myself - and duh... that wasn't much fun. It also threw a huge wet blanket over my creativity, too... automatically lowering my ability; inhibiting myself; reducing my choices. My mantra became: nothing bad will happen.

Now I do both on important things. I exhaustively research and do my homework. And then, I move (mentally) back to the biggest picture perspective I can find: what am I trying to decide and what are the 3 most important things I hope to accomplish? And I roll the dice... trust my intuition (which has already been informed by homework)... and I don't have so much anxiety or worry throughout the whole process. I've learned that it's just not possible to know enough, or be able to predict all possible effects of a decision... and that's less scary than it used to be, since I finally figured out that I'm allowed to change my mind!

I think you'll find yourself learning something similar about yourself through this experience. I really hope you can also enjoy it!
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Make-over my whole life...... or finding voicefulness
« Reply #153 on: March 11, 2011, 01:13:19 PM »
Quote
and he said something else about how it doesn't matter where men get their sexual fantasies from as long as they take it home to their wife

Not that I do this myself, of course...what follows is just a fantasy of what going autopilot with healthy boundaries would be like, using this good sample scenario. Again, not me, but fantasy-Hops (after much more practice):

1) Conversation underway.
2) Vibe is beginning to feel unpleasant. (I alert to my inner voice.)
3) Man says this.

I immediately and calmly walk away (without drama, explanation, or tension).

I forget about it within a few moments.

I do this automatically out of habitual self respect and comfort with my sturdy self.


HOOO-AHHHH! The world is a better place.
(World hasn't changed. Fantasy Hops has.)

Just felt delightful to write that down. Visualization-wise.
(I am after all, into writing fiction).

I believe every single encounter is an opportunity for practice.
(Perfection is off the table). For me, it's encouraging to think "practice".
Doesn't matter if I blow it.

Thanks MB,

Hops
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sKePTiKal

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Re: Make-over my whole life...... or finding voicefulness
« Reply #154 on: March 11, 2011, 05:18:48 PM »
Hops: laughing loudly and long and THEN walking away is also effective!
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Meh

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Re: Make-over my whole life...... or finding voicefulness
« Reply #155 on: March 11, 2011, 09:38:21 PM »
Wow, the poor people in JAPAN!!!

My little problems are very significant to me and my life---but when something huge like this happens--wow. It makes me want to even love the nar-people in my life--almost.

Why do disasters make people so sentimental--is it a coming to reality and waking up or is it an accentuated experience that alters one's mood.

I prefer to think it is a reminder in a very real way to make the most out of life--if at all possible.

Some people say this is a part of (2012) prophesy, I don't want to buy in 100% to all of the new-age ideas but there have been some very good predictions and I do believe in this kind of instinctual intelligence. This in combination with our huge oil spill and Haiti for me already confirms prophesy ability. Mother nature is the biggest shock and awe there is.

Today I just feel sad and shocked about the Earthquakes. I know it's far away but I still want to cry. I overheard a conversation today between two women, one of the women has her daughter over there near one of the reactors--very stressful for some people now.

I did a couple of important things for myself today but don't feel like writing about it yet--until I find out more.

My second volunteer thing kicked in after a long wait--so that means I will be reading books to kids and setting up art projects etc.
I don't know how I feel about it but I'm just going to go with it for now.

My mother is visiting me tomorrow and I feel anxiety and conflict--as usual this is what I feel like before she visits me.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 09:42:44 PM by Muffin buster »

Meh

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Re: Make-over my whole life...... or finding voicefulness
« Reply #156 on: March 11, 2011, 09:52:53 PM »

Hi Muffin Buster,

I'm not interested in a debate about it, if you disagree that's fine.

I'm just going to say it, I don't like OLD men. That is just my preference. I don't like the double standards between men and women


I like it that we all have the freedom to express our preferences and boundaries.  I respect the right of everyone to express their thoughts here.   Mine is just 1 woman's opinion.  Not very significant in the big picture!

tt



Tear Tracks, I think about this sort of thing, when different people don't have the same opinion about something and the end result of ----

Does a person lose their voicefulness if there is not agreement?

I think some people feel like they have lost their own voice when another person disagrees with them.

I know I have felt this way at times --and I have learned that I will not maintain my own sense of voicefulness if it's dependant on everyone agreeing with me. Because that is not the real world.

I think sometimes people do lose their voicefulness and then I think there really are situations where people can have different opinion but still keep their own voicefulness.

I'm working on this sort of thing. There are things on this board that I don't agree with because I have a different life perspective, usually I don't comment on them.

But I am working on somehow maintaining my own sense of voice even when there are others in this big world that believe something or do something that --leads to me thinking or experiencing a sense of voice loss. I have to allow people to be them, and still experience me---and not always homogenize opinion or view point. I am learning to let go of somethings--but still holding on at the same time. ?

Just because others in this world may not respect my voice, see life my way or have conflict of interests------figuring out how to still be me even when other's reflect back to me that my ideas are "wrong" or "different" or my voice is not on their side etc.

Dealing with people on a day-to-day basis, I have received a lot of judgemental, negative, bleak, discouraging feedback about my life situation and I have had to deal with it by leting go of other's opinions and sticking with my own internal compass/voice. I have had to have a different kind of faith in my integrity--or else I would go really really crazy.


« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 10:06:36 PM by Muffin buster »

Meh

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Re: Make-over my whole life...... or finding voicefulness
« Reply #157 on: March 11, 2011, 10:18:21 PM »
In my mind, I'd raised the level of risk so impossibly high that I scared myself to death and put way too much pressure on myself - and duh... that wasn't much fun. It also threw a huge wet blanket over my creativity, too... automatically lowering my ability; inhibiting myself; reducing my choices.

Maybe I am learning something similar to what you described

In the past I did work in life and death situations--but the volunteer thing is not that at all--so I don't need to carry over my habits.
My family also raised me to me very serious- there was not a lot of fun growing up-everything seemed to have grave consequences.

I like how you point out that you moved between winging it and being more careful.

This is when I wonder if we get pegged with a "personality" when it's habits or learned behavior.

I want to think that my personality is bigger then habitual patterns.


Meh

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I like this concept voice 1 voice 2 voice 3 voice 4
« Reply #158 on: March 11, 2011, 10:26:34 PM »
Recently I came across a new idea: There is such a thing as more than one voice!

I know it's sort of obvious but I have been thinking about my voice in terms of the voice that belongs to authentic (1) SELF......

What if my authentic SELF and even not so authentic self (ha ha whatever this means)......has more than one voice.

You know like a musician playing more than a single instrument. I don't mean two faceness here--I think what I mean is, um I'm not sure right now.  Ha Ha HA

Maybe it's like the voice is a river and it could branch out into new streams to include areas outside of it's normal riverbanks.

Wow voice is completely conected with ME-ness. I do something new and I think that I have developed voice # 2 to go along with a new activity.

So now I think about mindfulness meditation--no thinking mind. Where does voicefulness come in here.

No thinking seems like it would = no voice.

Because having a voice is related to formulating thought and that is thinking (I think).

OR actualy we CAN formulate thought without thinking. It sounds really weird in words but makes sense in practice.  

I had such a full day today (3) meetings nothing to do with the volunteering. So I can rest now, I can read for fun or take a break and not feel guilty. Yay for no guilt in relaxing.

 



« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 10:43:12 PM by Muffin buster »

sKePTiKal

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Re: Make-over my whole life...... or finding voicefulness
« Reply #159 on: March 12, 2011, 08:11:15 AM »
Quote
OR actualy we CAN formulate thought without thinking. It sounds really weird in words but makes sense in practice.

I know what you mean. I called it "emotional thinking" and it doesn't have any words. That's a kind of voice, too.... on some vibrational wavelength that's outside normal human hearing (dogs CAN hear it, I know). I don't know that it's "more true" or "more real" or "more self"... I think it might be just more instinctive, an earlier form of "thought" in our genes left over from the evolutionary time before speech and language. There are times when I can sense communication at this level in people, F2F. The non-verbal cues and communication.

Ya know - there's something really significant and big about your observation that some people feel voiceless unless there's a whole bunch of people agreeing with them. I can't put it into words yet. There's some connection to what GS is learning about dismissiveness there... and I'm being too dense this morning to see it.

Japan - Hokusai's Wave block print...

while it's seemed for the past couple of years that opposing, confrontational "sides" were being drawn up between groups of people at so many levels and people were choosing which side they were on and beginning to fight and argue intensely... others despairing, grieving and afraid... some still trying to make things better...

along comes a giant reminder from Mother Nature and the universe that we are ALL little beings on the same planet and it can all change in seconds and all the things we - in our ego-vanity - think are so important we have to alienate those who disagree with us over those things... all that is an insignificant little blip on the scale of processes and timeframes of planetary change. ----- Universe time, so we've been told (but I think no one really knows) is infinite and while, to us, our existence seems long - in that time-model... you'd better not blink!

At first, I just felt so helpless in the face of the immensity - helpless and shocked and sad. I couldn't post from that place; I didn't want to voice that... it seems so "negative" and one should try not to spread that kind o' crap around... in some value-systems, anyway. Later, seeing the graphics that showed the formation and travel of the waves... I realized - HOLY CRAP - that wasn't just a negative emotion... it was a friggin' fact! This was a planetary event on such a cataclysmic scale... I even just saw that higher than normal waves are still occuring on the west coast and hubs was wondering how long it takes a whole ocean to settle back down and stop "sloshing". I'm reminded of the movie "Independence Day"... that's one of my fav movies, even tho it's cheesy and hokey and almost B movie sci-fi. But that was a movie - and this is "my god" real.
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Meh

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Re: Make-over my whole life...... or finding voicefulness
« Reply #160 on: March 12, 2011, 10:37:32 AM »
and travel of the waves... I realized - HOLY CRAP - that wasn't just a negative emotion... it was a friggin' fact! This was a planetary event on such a cataclysmic scale...


When I woke up yesterday I checked my email and the news in Japan was the first thing I saw, I was busy with my life, then that night after I came "home" I saw some images, I was watching with interest and amazement because it's so unusual. I watched the cars, boats, houses floating away and over bridges and a derailed train.  

It looked like rubber ducky boats and cars in a bath tub. Usually with hurricanes and tornados and river floods there is warning and most of the houses and cars have been evacuated. But these people didn't have warning, and I realized that the cars and houses were not vacated, there were people in a lot of those houses and vehicles that got washed away.

The video clips that I have been able to see show things from a distance on a large scale and cut-out at the point where there are individual people actively trying to turn their cars around and get out of the way of the tsunami.

I started crying last night watching all of this. I asked myself is it ok that I'm crying? Am I being over emotional?
Then I realized some people don't even have to question their emotions like that.
Of course it's ok to get really upset about this, it's disturbing. It's overwhelming tragic devastation.
When I had nightmares this is the sort of scenes I saw. This is a living nightmare for Japanese people.

It's on a much larger scale than 911 was even if it's not man-made.  

Here is a good photo of a ripple all the way into San Francisco!   I hope this finally proves to some people that we all share one little fragile planet.

http://www.zimbio.com/Japan+Earthquake+2011/articles/Rg6dg0022py/San+Francisco+Tsunami+Picture

Pollution from China does reach the West Coast of the USA sometimes so I wonder if caesium can hit the US through weather streams?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 01:00:26 PM by Muffin buster »

Meh

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Re: Make-over my whole life...... or finding voicefulness
« Reply #161 on: March 12, 2011, 12:04:33 PM »

Recently I came across a new idea: There is such a thing as more than one voice!

More than the sacred cow one?   Thank you MB, I never thought on this until you posted about it. Then the first thing that popped into my mind was that even if I've found my voice, it is not beyond reproach and it only reflects my voice.  It can express anything it wants to, right or wrong.  The only difference is that I'm doing it with MY voice, not parroting through the veil of the person(s) who caused me to lose it.  It's not a sacred cow and once our voices became full and mature, I think we have a greater responsibility to use it for good.  Now the next question I should ponder is, Am I doing that?

You got me thinking!

tt



I personally didn't mean sacred cow voice or that which is beyond reproach.

I was referring to something along the lines of finding new modes of expression literally like learning how to play an instrument....but I think I'm grasping a little elusively because it's linked with (for me personally)--not self isolating and experiencing being a part of community in ways that I have not before and to do it without being fearful or something like that. Like reading books to kids as a volunteer-- is for me to find a "Second Voice"

That is more of what I meant. But if it spurs you on in your own direction that is ok also.

I'm not sure I have words to explain it because I'm not 100% sure what I am getting at.

There is voicelessness
There is voicefulness
There is inner child voice
There is the image of "idea of SELF" reflected back by others and the resulting voice that arises out of that
There is SELF that is not formed by others reflections and the voice from that

There is not accepting other's judgements about my SELF and at the same time figuring out how to not retreat or assimilate erroneous ideas about ME

There is the sad me--that is me interacting with my family

My mother wanted to meet me today, she will be here in 2 hours. I called her this morning and her husband answered--in a way that communicates he is dissappointed that I still exist on planet earth. Because my mother is part of his family now---and I am not welcome or accepted in that circle.
There is the voice of me that comes out of that reflection from his mind----"I am not worthy to be alive"

In his voice I hear a conviction of thought that limits who I am. I hear that his idea of me is the real ME. As if his belief has authority over my identity.

Of course this links back to my mother's sickness.

I think he makes a belief about (ME) based on my mother's back-stabbing comments about me to him.
The person that he reflects to me is degrading. (Low-Life)
Of course he also likes to watch Nazi Germany reruns over and over again. (No joke)

That voice. The image of my "not worthy to be alive" ---or "hasn't she commited suicide yet?"----That reflection has it's voice that is part of all my voices.

It's a real experience that feels bad but I hope it does not define all areas of my life. If my mother and her husband want me to kill myself----I don't want that feeling or experience to be what defines my whole being --hence the need for voices of other sorts.

It's weird to say it it and not a lot of people would believe it but I think my mother, her husband, my aunt want me to die.

Just like there is that part of SELF that can be cruel to the inner-child SELF----I think I receive that same role in my family of being the "Inner child self" for the relatives.

I think that is 50% what I mean about VOICE 1 VOICE 2 VOICE 3 Etc.

It's making more room/space in my life for parts of identity---the self isolating part--the community interaction part--the broken self part--the ruined part---the part that hasn't formed yet and can still exist part--

Writers literally use the term "finding your voice".

For people who grew up voiceless I think this is more complicated it's more like finding all the fragments and also learning that it's ok to branch out and have a new voice. There is something that branches out of the hurt child voice. Also, Maybe there are aspects of voice that do not have to originate from FOO wounds. That struggle.

Some voice comes out of struggle---maybe Voice # 32 comes from a place that does not have FOO struggle.





I do think in this case avoidance is ideal--but obviously I am meeting my mother today. I hate her. I don't want to meet her. I have mild anxiety the day before I know I am going to see her.

I will meet her for a short time and then I will cut it off--Ok bye you can go home now. She already told me she plans to call my aunt after she meets me. ----Meaning? She can act like she is normal or something???? She can tell my aunt lies about my life??

I'm going to stop believing that I have any control over my mother-aunt sicko duo.

They are INSANE---- if they were in a mental institute they would be working as a pair to abuse another lunatic.

Can I call them functioning lunatics?  I don't want to see my mother today at all. I'm now realizing how long it has been....and I never want to see her. I don't want her to know anything about my life--I want privacy. She asks me lots of questions and if I don't answer she gets pissed off at me as if she has the right to do her reconnaissance mission --for the sake of reporting back to my aunt so that my mother can appear to me a saintly mother.

She is evil. And maybe there is incompetence and weakness to her evil.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 12:57:43 PM by Muffin buster »

Hopalong

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Re: Make-over my whole life...... or finding voicefulness
« Reply #162 on: March 12, 2011, 07:24:51 PM »
Quote
In his voice I hear a conviction of thought that limits who I am. I hear that his idea of me is the real ME. As if his belief has authority over my identity.

Bravo, MB.

Did you do okay with the mother visit?

Hops
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sKePTiKal

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Re: Make-over my whole life...... or finding voicefulness
« Reply #163 on: March 13, 2011, 09:41:21 AM »
Wow Muffin...

the voice that is "working through" all this stuff, is making me go & ponder too!

One thing I see in your comments about mom & step-dad... only because I experience this too... is that it's helpful to have a boundary, even if it's only yours and something internal... sort of an emotional line in the sand that no matter what I perceive (or think I perceive) about someone else's judgement of me... within myself, I do not "grant" them the "authority of defining me". Their "judgement" then becomes their own un-informed opinion... and you know what they say about opinions!

This helps me just ignore them and not feed them... I don't get upset because of their lack of acknowledgement of boundaries and their wacked belief that just because we're related, they somehow "own" me... and that gives them the right to barge right over boundaries and the moral justification to INTEND to hurt or anger me - so that they themselves, can feel powerful.
Go smash ants, mom and leave me alone.


Quote
For people who grew up voiceless I think this is more complicated it's more like finding all the fragments and also learning that it's ok to branch out and have a new voice. There is something that branches out of the hurt child voice. Also, Maybe there are aspects of voice that do not have to originate from FOO wounds. That struggle.

Some voice comes out of struggle---maybe Voice # 32 comes from a place that does not have FOO struggle.

This is absolutely one of the most helpful (and comforting) things I've read recently, Muffin. And I do believe you're on to something - you're right - about this. And it's given me the idea, that perhaps I've not understood the connection between voice and boundaries and SELF - deeply enough.

Thanks - I'm going to go see what turns up as make "tea" out of these ideas.

As I'm sitting here on a boundary island on the east coast - and hearing the waves of the ocean a mile or more away from me - I too, am wondering how long it takes Ma Nature to distribute the bad things around... how much... how strong... or if she'll neutralize things much quicker than we can imagine? Like with volcanic ash clouds... a geologic event this huge will affect everyone, in some way. Ash clouds from volcanos halfway around the world, were responsible for triggering a mini-ice age... responsible again for the year without a "summer" season that severely affected food production... and wasn't the dust bowl preceded by widespread prarie fires (like in Oklahoma now?) Where's tt? She's our historian...

Like you, Muffin... my tears come knowing that some people didn't get the warning for tsunami. I don't try to stop the tears nor feel foolish anymore - and I don't have any fear either, oddly enough. All bets are off in the face of something this huge, for me. And in some odd way - it's shifting my perspective on my own struggles. Those are still important to me - but in the greater scheme of things - not nearly as important as the needs of all those people in Japan - so many different things going on at so many different levels!! I was happy to see that the Chinese are pledging assistance; their proximity means that food, shelter, and equipment and manpower is much closer. I'm glad they were able to set aside political disagreements to help.

Maybe Hokusai's wave, was a wave of tears?
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Meh

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Re: Make-over my whole life...... or finding voicefulness
« Reply #164 on: March 13, 2011, 08:57:47 PM »
Did you do okay with the mother visit?

Hops


Yep, Survived it. I was angry and I couldn't hide it, mostly I was sort of taciturn.

It does ruin my day though--I'm in a funk for at least 24 hrs.

But today I'm fine working on a writing assignment.