survival mechanisms - and letting them go

[Anonymous]

Hello Ellie - Thank you for sharing and allowing me to put something right.  No, I wasn't being sarcastic or intending any unkindness.  Brusque but not unkind.  And I'm sorry that it touched a sore place.  I wasn't aware that you had lost your mother.  You have a lot to deal with.

I really did mean that the way to survival is to not need for them to see life the same way as you do - 'let them keep their truth'.  It's about 'letting go'.

I wasn't criticising you for not having done so.

But as I wrote, I realised that maybe you do feel what they feel, that perhaps some part of you thinks that it is childish and so that's why it hit home and why she had an impact on you.

So the next stage is to find out what you really believe.  I'm not sure that we can choose what we truly 'believe'.  It's just 'there'.  So there's a possibility that you may find you do (unfortunately and uncomfortably) believe that it's childish too!  That doesn't mean that you have to stop LOL  Sounds fun to me!  But allow yourself to be kind to yourself by acknowledging what you really believe.

Well, it was simpler the first time around - gentler the second.  Hope it made sense.  You don't have to take this on board, tho!  Just thoughts to play around with.  {{Ellie}}}

[Anonymous]

I got your post the first time and didn't think you were being insensitive at all. I have read posts before and seen something and then reread them and found something entirely different. If you get upset reading a post then maybe it's the best thing to reread the post to garner a different meaning. In any case, all this stuff is a process and we are all at different stages of that process. Ellie, keep posting and working this through and enjoy your partying if that's what makes you happy. George Burns smoked until he passed at 100 plus years of age. And he made us laugh.

[Ellie]

Hi Guest,
 Thank you for responding. I understand now what you were saying. It's so hard to correspond wihtout voices - just words - because the meaning gets left out many times.

No one died, I lost them all though. I stood up for myself finally and no longer have a family. Nparents turned evryone in the family against me. Nmom is now lying to my children through correspondence.

I do not believe that I am acting childish. I do not share Nmom's beliefs. I haven't ever, but went along faking it forever just to be accepted. Isn't that sad - we have to fake who we are to our parents to be accepted and loved - the only ones on earth who should love us unconditionally?

The reason I can't forget about it and move on is that Nparents continue to try to destroy my life. They have threatened many things that would tear my life apart. I cannot forget for fear I will not be on guard for the next attack.

It is like fighting a war. A cease-fire is called, but one opponent doesn't want to abide, so they continue to fight but now in a sneaky way. The danger is always present - you will be attacked if not watching.

Nparents vowed to punish me even though I am an adult. They refuse to acknowledge I am an adult. They are dangerous and ruthless. They have made it theie life meaning to somehow turn me back to their side. In one sense they are as evil as the terrorists. They think if they find a way to bring me back into their fantasy world of the perfect family and change me to what they always thought I was, they can then be perfect and have their eternity they want. If they fail, they will not be perfect parents and god will punish them. Ndad said he would rather kill me than let me live a life that he dissaproves of.

I know what I truely believe - I don't live a life wondering who or what I am. I live a life of survival.

[wondering]

I did not write the post you are referring to; however, I believe you misinterpreted the tone and intention of that person's message.  I honestly did not feel anything negative in it toward you and still don't when I reread it.

I see that they are telling you that THEIR truth (your parent's, family's or anyone else's) does not have to be YOUR truth.  In other words, allow them to believe whatever they wish and CHOOSE for yourself what YOU want to believe.  

Do not allow their judgements to affect your choices.  Although we are raised to believe that things are black and white, right or wrong, there is truly no concensus on many things - and even less if you consider other cultures.  

Some examples may help:

For some all alcohol is evil; for others it is simply another choice of something to drink with dinner.  If you're an alcoholic it may be an issue; if you can take it or leave it, it is simply a beverage.

For some enjoying life and acting happy equate to being childish.  For others, those are very positive emotions and behaviors.  Some even believe that our purpose in life is to feel JOY.  JOY!!!  

What something IS depends upon what YOU BELIEVE.  Let go of others' judgements and "shoulds" and live your life any way you choose - and be glad of it.

It isn't what happens TO US as much as it is what we think about what happens and how we handle it.

[Anonymous]

Hi wondering and guests, I see what guest was saying now.

My point in all of it, including the first posting was that it does not matter what either party believes. If an N is intent on destroying someone, survival technics may be different than when one is simply trying to not have their feelings affected by an Nparents rambling or harsh words.

I refuse to fear Nparents anymore but I am not stupid in believing they have stopped trying to destroy me, just because I told them I no longer fear them.

The concept that I admitted to smoking and drinking were only callouses to their already enraged feelings toward me. They are livid I will not fail in my marriage, in my job, in life so I have to move back and depend on them. To them I am a failure if I do not let them run my life. None of this is childish actions, none of it goes away if I simply accept their truths. The truth is they will always try to destroy my family - no matter what I think, do or feel.

Does anyone else here have such destructive Nparents? Does anyone's Nparents still threaten to beat or kill them, try to have them arrested for cursing or call child protective services and lie so the kids will be taken away even though they are over the age of 30, in the name of a parent's right to punish?

I have considered a restraining order, but that is what they want. They thrive on telling their friends how terrible their daughter is. They want me to write them and tell them I don't want them to contact my kids. I will not do that to fuel them. Sine I cannot talk sanely with them, and H is fed up and does not want to talk about them anymore - my survival technic is finding an outlet to talk about them with others who experienced the same pain.

[Anonymous]

Oops, I forgot to log in - Ellie above

[wondering]

Yes, MANY Narcissists are intent on destroying others.  I've even had an N couple make destroying me their focus off and on for YEARS because I once innocently said something they didn't like.  

Many families are even worse than yours.  The best thing to do is to move out of range and focus your mind on anything else.  NOTHING you will ever do will modify their behavior.  You already know that.  Stay far away and hope they find other targets.

If you cannot physically move away stop interacting with them.  Change your phone number or get caller ID and don't answer.  If you answer and it is them hang up.  As long as they can get a reaction out of you they'll keep coming back for more.  Put them completely out of your life.  

Come here and blow off steam and work through the issues.  Be considerate of your family and don't dump on them over and over as it can damage your relationships there.  Although they would hopefully be empathetic your time with them is better spent in more positive ways.

As much as possible change your focus to what you desire in your life and keep it off everything else.

[Overcomer]

Hey Everyone.............this is the first I have read of this thread.  Boy, did it bring a lot of emotion out in me.  The later posts are so similar to my experiences.....................I still don't drink or smoke or admit to it to my parents.  I find it is easier to live two lives......it sucks, doesn't it?

And the interrupting?  How about not speaking up?  I went to college a little older than usual and I had an arrogant professor.  I wouldn't say one thing in his class for fear of being made to look stupid.

And the stopping mid-sentence without finishing a thought?  I do that ALL the time!  In fact, my kids kind of raz me for never finishing a sentence.  Could it be that I was never able to have a conversation with my parents when I was young without being interrupted?  I think so.  I got a lot of the "don't argue with me, young lady" or "because I said so" or "children should be seen and not heard..............." when I was growing up.  Oh, doesn't that ring a bell?  "SEEN AND NOT HEARD?"  NOT HEARD!!!!!!!!!

And I KNOW my husband had the same thing happen to him.  You should hear him.  He goes on and on and on and on and on and I cannot get a word in edgewise - I have to jump in with both feet to say a word and he just keeps on talking and talking and talking........................he told me he could never say a word to his parents.  His mother chewed him out allllll the time........................now he chews me out (well at least he did until I told him to shut up or I would go to divorce court...........we've been married a little over two years and the first year was a year of real bullying by him!!!!!)  

And this forgiveness thing?  Someone told me that to NOT forgive someone is like drinking poison and then waiting for the other person to die from it.  If we don't forgive, the only person it hurts is US.  Because resentment and bitterness take hold and wreaks havoc upon our bodies...early death.....cancer....fibromyagia.....etc.  NO, we don't have to allow them to continue the abuse, or forget (believe me, we all know there is NO forgetting the abuse........) but we need to let it go.

Have a few drinks, smoke a few cigs, listen to some good music, laugh and have a good time.......................but don't allow it to ruin your life...you know, addictions, etc.  Live your reality!!!!  Forget those parents.  Love, Laugh, Sing, Grow........................we all need each other.  Thanks for listening.

[Overcomer]

Oh, and one other thing............................I hate myself...............I am fat and ugly!!!  Wonder where that one came from?

[Anonymous]

I was hoping to get some more input on this topic.  When I read about the things that people do to "survive," it just brought up some deep emotion.  I wanted someone to give some input on why, perhaps I think of myself as fat and ugly?  Could it be an unwritten rule that I cannot look better than my mom?  Or cannot be as successful so I let myself gain weight and look all puffy.............and meanwhile my nmom can afford plastic surgery and so at 68 she probably looks better than I do at 45????

Do you suppose I sabotage myself, as I sabotaged my job interview a couple of weeks ago..........came on with such ability and confidence and went to the last interview as a mere shell of my former self???

Kelly

[phoenix]

I was hoping to get some more input on this topic.  When I read about the things that people do to "survive," it just brought up some deep emotion.  I wanted someone to give some input on why, perhaps I think of myself as fat and ugly?  Could it be an unwritten rule that I cannot look better than my mom?  Or cannot be as successful so I let myself gain weight and look all puffy.............and meanwhile my nmom can afford plastic surgery and so at 68 she probably looks better than I do at 45????

Do you suppose I sabotage myself, as I sabotaged my job interview a couple of weeks ago..........came on with such ability and confidence and went to the last interview as a mere shell of my former self???

Kelly

Kelly! I have been giving some consideration to your post- I couldn't tell if you wanted input or not. It sounds like you know what, how, and why- now it is for you to find your way out. To start that climb to first be on the same footing as your mom- and then to rise above it. Sometimes the only way out is through. A ways back Bunny voiced that perhaps you might stay at your mom's business and work your issuses out from there. That was how I felt. You can work for Ns anywhere. It has it's pros and cons whether you are related or not.

Although your mother works hard at keeping you in your (her) place - if you can see that she does that, it is because you also can see and sense your own value. We  find oursleves offended at  belittlement because in reality we do  hold ourselves in higher esteem. The greater you come to feel about yourself , the lesser you can abide someone elses negation of you.

I am just here highlighting what you already know- standing by as your cheerleader: I suspect you know your way out of the woods...what needs to be done. You know your job issues, ; you see the family dynamics: You see what you want from and for your familiy : and now you see how she has physically affected you, and held you as her captive. You have a lot accumulated to work with.

Go forward and face her- your mother- give to yourself what she won't. Push some of her stuff back onto her own plate. Do it slow and careful. Of course she is going to squawk! She has held you in place forever this way! What you most dread- aim for it. It will get easier.

Fight for yourself! Being your best doesn't take away from anyone else. That is their problem if their insecure little self thinks that way.    

I felt quite passionate writing all that...Phoenix

[Avril]

Phoenix wrote:

Being your best doesn't take away from anyone else.

I like that so much, I've written it in my notebook where I keep a list of thoughts that help me when I'm going through a rough patch.

Whenever I spend time with my NMom (or on the phone) I'm on edge the whole time; I'm always having to put myself down and belittle any of my achievements, so that I don't rise even a tiny bit above her.  This, in the face of always being asked for a full report of what I've done, how's work, etc.  Be good, but not too good!  The over-weight thing is an issue for me too.

It's like walking on a tight-rope, with no safety net and a pit of snakes beneath you, trying to tread the fine line of being 'perfect' enough for them, but not any better than them!  'Give me your achievemnts to wallow in, but don't be better than me.'  I was a lost cause from the moment I was born, because I had a cleft lip.  This still gets brought up from time to time, with tears and wailing about how awful she felt and that she's never really got over it.  Hey!  Who's the one living with a scar here?!

And, oh boy, the issues I have with emotion!  That was something else that was tightly controlled by the NMom.  I can stil hear and see her now, bearing down on me with a face like fury, shouting "Don't get angry!"  

Sorry, I'm venting rage again now, and making this all about me!  I'm still new to this; only found out about NPD less than a year ago.  I've a lot to work through.

And yet, when I read people's posts on this board, I can see that in some little bits of my life, I am making headway.  I am blessed with a wonderful, loving and patient H, who has been so supportive, and now that we finally can put a name to the problem with NMum, he is great at helping me to keep things in perspective.  Even a simple little remark from him can ease the pain, like, "Let it go; don't take it personally; remember she's N; she can't see beyond the end of her own nose!"  Understanding, knowledge and support from people who know what you're up against are so powerful in the healing process.  It gives me hope.

[Anonymous]

Kelly here.  Those last two posts are exactly what I was looking for!  EXACTLY!!  Phoenix, you are right.................I already know the answers.  Maybe I just need the affirmation.  It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.  I know what I need to do to be my best self..........slim, upbeat, etc.  But my nmom has made sure that she has beaten my self-esteem down for so many years that I buy into the BS.

No, not really.  I don't think she set out to push me down.  I honestly think her motivation was to manipulate (even though she would never see it as manipulation) me into being a good, Christian person.  Because she did not approve of my choices (drinking, smoking, carrying on for many, many years....) she would not give me her approval.  Without her approval, my sense of self-worth went down and I suppose I acted out by being worse and worse.......almost self destructive.  So now I am 45 years old and I don't "deserve" to be what I used to be.  When I was young I was tall and thin and outgoing.  Sophomore class president, cheerleader, and a lot more.  But one event in my life made me not trust those in authority and then not trust my nmom for not sticking up for me.

Meanwhile, she was nurturing her own psyche and she rose to greatness in business.

Well, since then she has been so self-involved and so intent on making me into a "mini-me" of her...................I have felt so invalidated.

So why do I feel so fat and ugly?  Because that is who I should be.  I cannot be anything more than the woman who has made so many bad decisions in my life that I don't deserve to be that young, vivacious woman anymore!  But that, too, is BS.  I DO deserve it.  And my self worth is not contingent upon my mother's approval of me.

I admit, I have become a bitter, caustic person - mostly to my mom.  Anything she says to me is magnified to the extent that I easily blow up!

Time to recapture that sense of worth.  That optimism about the future.  That thin, outgoing woman who is only half way through life!  Time to look up and be content with who I am.

Thank you Av and Phoenix for your input.  I really appreciate it!  I WILL do well!!