Author Topic: Childhood panic attacks?  (Read 3515 times)

KayZee

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Childhood panic attacks?
« on: November 15, 2011, 09:28:31 PM »
Hey all,

So I wondered if any of you out there suffered from any sorts of panic disorders (undiagnosed or not) when you were kids?

I've been remembering the way I used to get really dizzy and faint when I was a kid.  My pulse would bang in my ears and the blood would feel like it was draining out of my head, and once or twice I even passed out cold.  This happened a lot between the ages of eight and fourteen, and looking back I realize they exclusively happened when I was with my NM.  Never experienced anything like it when I was at school, with friends or engaged in an after-school activity.

Most of all, these dizzy spells happened when I was having "quality time" with NM (like shopping) or in an enclosed space with her (in the car or once on a crowded train).  I can't remember how NM used to justify these fainting spells.  I think perhaps she said it was because I was growing.

At any rate, in retrospect, I wonder if these were panic attacks?  Anyone out there experience anything similar?

I was a very nervous kid...  Always fearful of home intrusions.  Fearful that the house would burn down in the middle of the night while we were asleep.  Fearful that my parents were going to abandon me in the supermarket or shopping mall.  I realize now that these fears were just twisted versions of things that had already happened: already felt emotionally abandoned by my folks, already felt like our home was a devastated place, already felt like I was being intruded upon (engulfing NM afforded me no independence or space).

thanks and best wishes, Kay x

finding peace

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Re: Childhood panic attacks?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2011, 12:34:11 AM »
Hi KayZee,

Yes I had similar experiences.

Although I am not qualified to diagnose, your experience as a child sure sounds like panic attacks to me.

As a child I didn’t understand what it was. 

I thought that everyone experienced the same things that I did.  For the most part, I thought my childhood was normal.

It wasn’t until I became an adult (and after I had children), that I realized it is not natural (as a child or an adult) to feel your heart pound out of your chest and want to crawl out of your skin or hide when you hear the garage door open, when you hear heavy footsteps on the stairs, when you are upstairs and someone downstairs coughs, to duck when someone raises their hand….(my manifestations of panic).

To this day, I have severe anxiety and PTSD.  The PTSD is so bad it can happen even over little things, and I still haven’t been able to get a handle on it even with 10+ years of therapy and knowing that my childhood experience was not normal.

I believe that the brain is hardwired to fight or flight (which manifests in a surge of adrenaline throughout the body) in adverse situations so that we can survive.

However, in the adverse situations we faced as children; we could neither fight nor flight.  We just had to take it.

At least for me, I think my brain defaulted into PTSD/anxiety (couldn’t fight or flight, so I had all that adrenaline rushing through my system that had no where to go, and it eventually manifested as anxiety). 

IME, this pattern has been very hard to change once it was ingrained.

I don’t know if you still suffer from this?

I do.

I am sorry you too had to experience this as a child. No child should ever have to experience this.

Peace
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KayZee

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Re: Childhood panic attacks?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2011, 02:18:55 PM »
Dear Peace,

Thank you so much for your response.  I can't tell you how deeply I'm affected by your words and experiences.

It's funny, I always thought my childhood was normal too.  Mostly because my NM told me over and over that it was.  Actually NM didn't just say it was normal, in a truly NM way, she always said my childhood was "enviable."  What brainwashing.  What a joke. 

But you're right, as children we are totally at our parents' mercy.  Like you said, as kids, we had to just take it.  Couldn't fight back, couldn't run away, couldn't even name the feeling properly because the N's in our life were incensed by the idea of other people having feelings.

And the worst part is, when we were small children, our parents controlled language and meaning.  We felt anxiety but weren't free to call it that.  Because our parents called fear something else.  (My NM called it "being over-sensitive," "being difficult," etc.)  I can't quite believe that--at thirty one--the obvious is only just occurring to me: I was having panic attacks and it wasn't normal.  It's not in any way normal for a seven or eight-year-old kid to find herself hyperventilating. 

I really hope you find all the peace, healing and serenity you deserve.  I'm positive you will.  Like anything else, I'm sure it's a daily process.

Do you find yourself panicking in the face of your fear?  I do.  It's like even the idea of acknowledging and expressing fear is terrifying.  My fear always used to elicit my NM's rage. 

Had to take a break from therapy (I just can't afford it at the moment) and I've never tried anti-anxiety meds.  Don't get quite the same kinds of dizzy, heart-thumping spells I did when I was a kid.  Although occasionally--maybe once or twice a month--I feel a mild throat-closing sense of panic.

Oddly enough, sometimes I find just saying "I'm scared" aloud seems to calm me down and diffuse the anxiety.  For instance: I was hanging wallpaper with my husband a few weeks ago.  Well, wallpaper really reminds me of NM.  Her house is filled with it.  She's flawless at hanging it and loves to critique other people's mistakes and bubbles.  Anyway, right before we started, my skin started crawling (just as you described).  DH asked what was wrong and I said, "I'm terrified."  DH said, "Terrified of what?"  And I told him I was scared we weren't going to do the papering well enough, that we were going to fight in the process, confessed that I had a lot of strong childhood memories that involved helping my mother strip walls and repaper.  The instant I said it, I felt freer, calmer.  And of course, DH was like: "We're not going to fight over this.  And who cares if we screw up?  It's just wallpaper.  We have more than enough.  If we do it wrong, we'll just start over again.  I'm not your mom.  This isn't your childhood house.  We're us.  This place is ours."  I found myself laughing and crying.  It was like coming out of a spell.  It doesn't always work out like that, but still...

Anyway, thank you again Peace.  Deeply.
Wishing you lots of peace and love, Kay

« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 02:21:33 PM by KayZee »

finding peace

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Re: Childhood panic attacks?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2011, 02:16:31 AM »
Oh boy, Kay, were we raised in the same family?

So much of what you have written resonates.

Yes, I was told how lucky I was to have had the parents I had (::rolling eyes:: )

Yes, I was the too difficult/too sensitive child… (::vomiting in my mouth, while rolling my eyes:: )

Oiiiyyy,

The good thing…

It sounds like you have been able to ground yourself in the here and now when an anxiety attack hits. 

This is a great thing!

Please don’t put yourself down because you are realizing it at 31.  I am 45 and still trying to unravel how deep the brainwashing goes, and it goes deep.

Funny/sad story, kinda appropriate for the season.  A number of years ago, my mother was preparing a ham for dinner and she cut-off both ends of the ham and put it in the pan.  My Nona and her MIL (whom I loved dearly and she hated) asked her why she was cutting the ends off the ham.  She responded, that is how my family always prepared a ham – it is the only way to appropriately prepare a ham. 

Her own mother who was also there at the time said, “I only cut off the ends of the ham because it wouldn’t fit in the pan.”

Kinda funny and sad at the same time.

How deep does the pattern of wrongly learned behaviour/interpretaition of that behaviour go? 

I feel it is very much like trying to break out of a cult. 

I loved hearing that you have what sounds like the support of a great husband to help you to ground yourself (I have this too … I couldn’t have gotten as far as I have without him).

I was in better shape at fighting the PTSD and anxiety a couple of years ago, but have slipped back a bit in the past couple of years.

Thank you so much for the vote of confidence!

You sound like you are doing really, really well considering everything you went through.

I am so very glad to hear it.  Love to you, and many thanks.

You seem to me a very sweet and sensitive soul, and contrary to everything you were told as a child, IMO, this is a very good person to be. 

They were so very wrong about you. 

Much love,
Peace

- Life is a journey not a destination

KayZee

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Re: Childhood panic attacks?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2011, 09:50:59 AM »
Bless you, Peace..

That story about the ham made me laugh out loud.  And of course, its sadness also speaks volumes.  I think you're right, we ought not be too hard on ourselves.  We've been able to realize our family legacy, the bad habits that have been passed down through the generations, and that's the very first step in changing them.  Definitely like breaking out of a cult & erasing the brain washing!

And yes, we definitely seem like sisters from different misters.  I'm so thankful for the sisterhood that exists on this messageboard.  I have NC/zero relationship with my own GC sister (my only sibling).  NM has so successfully turned her and my father against me that the only contact I have with my FOO at all is through NM herself.  Talk about triangulation.

Anyway, I wonder is your NM Italian?  I noticed you called your grandmother your Nona. 

My NM is Italian.  Sicilian, actually.  And it's often seemed to me that maternal narcissism is hugely common in Italian families.  I can't find any sort of research to confirm this.  But when you think about the stereotypes of the Italian mother (engulfing, favoring her sons, being the dominant figure in the family home) they all seem pretty darn N!

I'm so glad to hear you've got the support of your husband.  Isn't it nice to have a touchstone who grew up in a relatively normal family--a partner who can occasionally say, "No you're not crazy.  You're not imagining things.  Your Mom is mental!  What happened there was really bizarre!  Most families don't function like that!"

At any rate, you've got all my very best wishes and support.
love, Kay


finding peace

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Re: Childhood panic attacks?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2011, 10:54:50 PM »
Hey KZ,

In my case, my father was the N (professionally diagnosed 2x) and my mother was the co-D …. until he died.  

Once he died, it was almost as if she no longer had a personality of her own, and became him, or she was his mini-me all along – and just hid it better.

In retrospect, when I think about what she did to me as a child, I am thinking the latter.

Funny you asked about descent.

My Nona (my father's mother) was of Sicilian descent.  

I loved her.

My father/mother hated her.  

I don’t know if she was playing games, but she was the only one in my family who ever cared about how I felt and what I was going through.

She was the only anchor I had.

My mother, as well as, grandfathers on the maternal and fraternal side, were primarily of Germanic descent.

Truth be told I am a mutt :) (French, German, Italian, Scottish, English, Scots Irish…).

Personally, I don’t like to pinpoint to an entire race; however, I don’t doubt you have a valid point here – it would be an interesting study.

It has been my experience that descendants of those of the “romance” languages (myself included) are more prone towards emotion and fighting rather than discussion.  That is what I grew up with.  It was always a fight, and a loud one at that.

I just don’t feel comfortable putting it down to a “race” per se.  

I think it takes a lot of factors to make an N, both genetic and environmental.

I do think this would be a great study – a study of the romance languages to determine if this impacts development into a personality disorder.

(On edit, I had a Spanish teacher in college, and she pointed out that it was interesting how some information translates from English to Spanish …  She said that in English, one would say, “I dropped the pen;” whereas in Spanish, one would say, “the pen fell from my hand.”  At the time, I thought about ownership of what we do, and wondered how much language influences what we think about ourselves and those around us?)

You have me thinking!  

Blessings to you,
Peace


« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 11:18:30 PM by finding peace »
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KayZee

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Re: Childhood panic attacks?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2011, 11:16:51 PM »
Oh no!  I hope I haven't offended anyone.  Only mentioned the Italian thing because a consideration of nationality/ethnicity/family tree (as well as era/time period in which N or abuser was raised) can help a person understand all the personal history that contributed to their N-characteristics and the reasons why they raised us the way they did.

It's really touching to hear about your relationship with your Nona.  I'm so glad she was there to give you all the warmth, affection and understanding you very much deserved.

lots of love, Kay

finding peace

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Re: Childhood panic attacks?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2011, 11:33:04 PM »
KZ, it never occurred to me that your post was offensive.

I thought it very introspective.

I think you have a very valid point here.

It really has me thinking – one of my quirks!

Love to you,
Peace
- Life is a journey not a destination

bearwithme

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Re: Childhood panic attacks?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2011, 10:56:21 PM »
Quote
I was a very nervous kid...  Always fearful of home intrusions.  Fearful that the house would burn down in the middle of the night while we were asleep.  Fearful that my parents were going to abandon me in the supermarket or shopping mall.  I realize now that these fears were just twisted versions of things that had already happened: already felt emotionally abandoned by my folks, already felt like our home was a devastated place, already felt like I was being intruded upon (engulfing NM afforded me no independence or space).

This is me.  So me.  You guys never cease to amaze me on how similar, no, exact, as to what I think and feel.  KZ, thanks for writing this.  I also thought terrible things would happen (sometimes I still do).  I always thought there was someone under my bed, I always thought someone would kill me and my family, I always imagined these horrific scenes that were downright disturbing and had (or have) no idea how to stop them...I lived in fear and to some degree, I still do.  Do you still fear?  My NM was scary and made me afraid of everything.  She would tell me about evil spirits, ghosts and the boogie-man, etc.  She was all those:  a ghost, and evil spirit and the boogie-man.


I have never thought of it that way.  Wow.

Bear.

Meh

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Re: Childhood panic attacks?
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2011, 01:15:51 AM »
Yes, I had panic attacks/anxiety episodes when I was a child. When I was around six-seven-eight years old I had to get on airplanes by myself (not a big deal) and go to live with the other parent in another state. The stress of this instability and change and lack of loving parents to go to was too much for me one time and I refused to get on the plane at one point because I felt that I was going to suffocate and could not breathe. At that point I was told how angry my father was going to be at me because he paid a lot of MONEY for the airplane ticket I was also told that I was making it up to get attention or something like that. Heaven forbide that a child should be deserving of attention :shock:

I was ashamed and embarrassed because I was blamed for doing something bad. Of course I didn't understand what a panic attack was at that age. I felt confused. I WANTED TO PLEASE MY PARENTS...wanted them to be happy with me and having a panic attack was something that was going to make them unhappy.
My mother wanted me to live with her all the time so she could demand that my father send her money all the time.

I also remember at least one panic attack when I was a teenager but I didn't figure it out until I was an adult what these were.


« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 01:28:13 AM by Boat that Rocks »

Meh

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Re: Childhood panic attacks?
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2011, 01:33:15 AM »
Getting the weird jumping screen thing on previous post need to make one more here:

As an adult maybe about 5-6 years ago I was walking down a sidewalk and out of the blue became so worried that I was literally going to suffocate and die that I called 911. I spoke with them for a couple of minutes and I told them how I was feeling and I also said I think I'm just having a panic attack and you don't need to send an ambulance. They offered to send an ambulance anyways and I decided I didn't need it but the feeling of fear and panic was so bad that I did make the 911 call. Luckily the person that I was talking to knew what a panic attack was and was nice about it. I guess I expected the 911 dispatcher to be pissed off at me.

Yes, I think I did pass-out when I was a kid. I was on steroids though because I was sick due to my mother's neglect so I always thought it was related to the medication and maybe it was the medication...I have no clue it was a weird time. I tried to explain to the adults that I could feel and hear the blood in my veins but nobody every listened to what I said and no doctor ever explained it so I was just left with the weird experience.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 01:43:13 AM by Boat that Rocks »

sKePTiKal

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Re: Childhood panic attacks?
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2011, 08:33:01 AM »
I had one of these - in circumstances where I normally would've been relaxed, happy & having a lot of fun. I literally felt I couldn't breathe... had pain running down my arm, into my jaw like someone was pinching me in a vise - the side Twigs had trouble with during her trauma. Long story short: a few weeks later it hadn't recurred but the thoughts and questions it brought up bothered me - and went to my doctor... and then started a repeat of the kind of medical "abuse" I suffered as a child at the hands of my mom, who searched for a medical explanation for and tried a zillion "treatments" to clear up my emotional/psychosomatic symptoms.

Looking back at this now... and knowing what I know now, about needing to be able to hear, feel, and be connected to my "self"... I wonder if maybe these panic attacks aren't an SOS from the self? A smack upside the body's head... to get my normal consciousness to pay attention NOW...

This kind of self-> body-> mind "communication" has been going on with me, at LEAST as far back as Twiggy's day. 40 some years. In various ways. It's different, too, than a real injury or normal sickness... but I can't describe how, except to say that normal medical exams find no "cause"... and the usual "treatments" only make things worse; not better.

That's just my crazy idea of what it seems like is going on. I don't have anything to back that up with... no studies, no expert theories... it's just how I experience it.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

river

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Re: Childhood panic attacks?
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2011, 08:04:14 PM »
Quote
   Oddly enough, sometimes I find just saying "I'm scared" aloud seems to calm me down and diffuse the anxiety.  For instance: I was hanging wallpaper with my husband a few weeks ago.  Well, wallpaper really reminds me of NM.  Her house is filled with it.  She's flawless at hanging it and loves to critique other people's mistakes and bubbles.  Anyway, right before we started, my skin started crawling (just as you described).  DH asked what was wrong and I said, "I'm terrified."  DH said, "Terrified of what?"  And I told him I was scared we weren't going to do the papering well enough, that we were going to fight in the process, confessed that I had a lot of strong childhood memories that involved helping my mother strip walls and repaper.  The instant I said it, I felt freer, calmer.  And of course, DH was like: "We're not going to fight over this.  And who cares if we screw up?  It's just wallpaper.  We have more than enough.  If we do it wrong, we'll just start over again.  I'm not your mom.  This isn't your childhood house.  We're us.  This place is ours."  I found myself laughing and crying.  It was like coming out of a spell.  It doesn't always work out like that, but still...

 

this is lovely 

KayZee

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Re: Childhood panic attacks?
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2011, 08:43:12 PM »
Quote
Looking back at this now... and knowing what I know now, about needing to be able to hear, feel, and be connected to my "self"... I wonder if maybe these panic attacks aren't an SOS from the self? A smack upside the body's head... to get my normal consciousness to pay attention NOW...

I love this, P.R.  And I totally agree!  Panic attacks very well might be the body's way of making us take notice, like the dashboard lights coming on in a car.

Don't homeopaths like to say the human body manifests physical symptoms as a last resort, in order to get us to pay attention to emotional illnesses?  I.e. I've met one or two who claim skin disorders (like psoriasis) are the result of repressed anger.  Interesting stuff..

sKePTiKal

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Re: Childhood panic attacks?
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2011, 10:54:06 AM »
Kay:

I've had hives, sciatica, psoriasis (intermittent)... and ... as a child the resigned diagnosis was "swollen glands". I agree with your homeopath, given what my life has been like. I feel like the poster girl for psychosomatics!

One other tidbit I ran across in my memory-log-scan journals during therapy: being physically ill was the only way, as a child, I could get my mom to (positively) pay attention to me.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.