Author Topic: Anyone here think they are CoDependent?  (Read 4214 times)

Ales2

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Anyone here think they are CoDependent?
« on: December 14, 2011, 09:19:28 PM »
I read Melody Beattie's books over Thanksgiving and starting attending CoDA Meetings. Beattie's books were the best thing for me - very therapeutic.

Anyone else here identify with CoDependence?

JustKathy

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Re: Anyone here think they are CoDependent?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2011, 09:52:27 PM »
No. I have made the mistake of marrying Ns, twice, but I don't think that's co-dependency as much as it's bad judgment, which is the result of bad parenting by an N mother. Now, my brother, the GC, married an N and is totally co-dependent. Maybe the difference is that he happily ate up everything his mother taught him and showed him about "life," while I ran screaming at age 17. But no, I don't believe I have those tendencies, thank goodness.

BonesMS

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Re: Anyone here think they are CoDependent?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2011, 06:43:55 AM »
"Co-Dependent No More" was one of the first books I read, early in my recovery back in the 1980's and coming to understand what it meant to be an Adult Child of an Alcoholic in a Dysfunctional family.  (I didn't know about Narcissistic Personality Disorder yet.)  In the context of Alcoholic Families, I can say "Yes" I was a co-dependent until the blinders came off.

Bones
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sKePTiKal

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Re: Anyone here think they are CoDependent?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2011, 10:07:45 AM »
I think I have been co-dependent, Ales. The last vestiges that I'm working on is my "needing to be needed" urge... because it was the  way I discovered I could "matter" - be important - to other people. That shows up in my posts here, don't ya think?

Another way I fit that general description, was my outrage & anger at my FOO. For a long time, I needed to stay involved with that crap simply to have justification for my anger. When I realized the anger was a disguise for deep grief; an emotional loss so traumatic it almost literally shook me apart... and started to really grieve that... boundaries were easier; the anger and touchy over-sensitivivity to "insult" nature dissapated... and I actually started to allow myself to enjoy things again and appreciate the little things all around me that I was grateful for.

I think those characteristics probably have a lot to do with my issues with hubs, too. Because it was my primary relationship and therefore what felt normal, I keep trying to superimpose it on all my other relationships - and DUH, Amber - that just doesn't work. It doesn't help that hubs might lean that way, too.

SO: what does your book say about the difference between true caring and intimacy and co-dependence, Ales? How do we tell them apart? Where is the line... when a behavior starts to drift over to the "dark side"?
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JustKathy

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Re: Anyone here think they are CoDependent?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2011, 01:29:02 PM »
After reading through everyone's comments, I'm thinking I should read this book. I may have Co traits that I'm not conscious of, or am mistaking for something else. This book sounds very informative and definitely worth a read.

BonesMS

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Re: Anyone here think they are CoDependent?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2011, 01:30:55 PM »
Another good read are books by John Bradshaw.  I've been to one of his workshops, which started my healing process as it helped me put a NAME on a lot of what was going on.

Bones
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Ales2

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Re: Anyone here think they are CoDependent?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2011, 02:36:51 PM »
JustKathy - Read both your posts, thank you so much.  I'd recommend the book - especially the one (CoDependent No More) with the characteristics. If you meet them or identify with them, it might be helpful.  Its possible that you married two Ns just as bad luck (i.e they kept their real selves hidden until marriage) and not because of Co-dependency. The premise of co-dependency that is interesting is that abusive situations, get us to denigrate ourselves as a coping mechanism for survival and I certainly did that growing up.

Phoenix - All good observations - thank you! As for your question, I think one can show caring and intimacy with boundaries, and reciprocation. In other words, when you are not getting back what you think you deserve for your efforts, the answer is just to leave it as it is, and accept that graciously, not give more trying to "get it" to come back to you. Another way is give only what you can without expecting anything in return, asking for the return is controlled giving and is actually manipulating others.  Giving expecting a return and Giving more when there is no return -thats when it crosses the dark side, IMHO.  This is what I've come to understand.

Bones - Awesome, thank you. Did you have to do much work to change patterns or was the awareness enough for you? The Bradshaw books are also awesome.

TearTracks - thank you! I'm ordering the workbooks now too, they look helpful. And its totally possible that acceptance of Co-dependent behaviors and recognizing that we are all a little co-dependent at time is OK.  Better to be aware and work around it when its not possible to work on it or change it too much. :)

KayZee

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Re: Anyone here think they are CoDependent?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2011, 02:41:18 PM »
I'm definitely going to check out some of these books...

Maybe this sounds strange(?), but I think I've often swung between co-dependent and counter-dependent behaviors?  In the past, I was very co-dependent with my FOO; it was hard for me to set boundaries with them and I desperately wanted to support them/fix their problems, etc.  At the same time, I was very counter-dependent in my friendships and romantic relationships; it was (and occasionally still is) really hard to let people in, ask for help (as a kid I learned, why ask for help when you'll be shamed or punished for it?), confide my feelings, convince myself that it's safe to get close to other people.

 Have probably gone most my life swinging between clinging to people and pushing them away, between letting myself get invaded by people or hiding my real self away so I wouldn't get invaded.  What a mess.  Don't really know how to break the cycle.

Kay

Ales2

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Re: Anyone here think they are CoDependent?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2011, 02:46:02 PM »
Hi Kay - Check out these books - they might be able to give you some insight. One of the things with co-dependence is the back and forth and cyclical nature of not having more defined sense of self and boundaries. Maybe that is some of what you have been going through?

For me, Co-dependence as a reaction to an N Mother is one of my newest discoveries and its really giving me practical hope for my future.

Good luck to you!

Hopalong

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Re: Anyone here think they are CoDependent?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2011, 09:06:05 PM »
I think a little compassion for Kay is in order!

From

Kay.

(You got mine/ours. You need to talk to that bullied inner child with all the love you can muster...over time, you'll discover it's not just safe to love her, it's delightful. It'll expand your spirit, your sense of belonging not just in the world but with yourself--after you comfort her and you begin playing together. My advice is not to create a separate story, re-enter the present and real nature of your child self which is amazing and wonderful even if there was sadness. Stick close, know the greeting/meeting of your little-girl self is not meeting a fictional character, it's just saying Hello, there you are. Don't be afraid. I am here for you now....)

Long story shorter. An inner child isn't a concept. And the child is not dead.

xo
Hops

PS (so glad you watched Buck...it moved me a lot, he GETS it, about people as much as animals)
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Anyone here think they are CoDependent?
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2011, 08:47:11 AM »
Thanks Ales! I still have work to do on allowing myself to EXPECT a return-giving before I give more... and more... I've been programmed to "not need", "not expect", not ask and also to politely decline... anyone's gifts to (or interest in) me. From that lowly position, I generally give a flood more than what was asked of me, initially. Not to mention that I can be genuinely needy in that situation!

That pattern has bit me in the butt in over-compensation, being the go-to volunteer, being used, a high level of stress & exhaustion, and a belief that I had to continually prove my competency and my genuine caring - no matter what it cost me - to others... and that someday, maybe... that caring would be returned. N-ex#2 even told me directly that we were a perfect match, precisely because I took care of all his needs and expected nothing in return. That was shortly before I fled in horror that I was literally suffocating and dying and giving up my whole life - for nothing.

All this was because my Nmom's promise of caring about me was based solely on how much I did for her; how I took care of her. She made caring a merchant's bargain... and she didn't "pay up". I kept hoping that I'd find the right combination or some miracle would happen. Duh. Even while I resented and felt trapped in the one-way relationship.

I'm sure while working on this, I've overcompensated to the other extreme too. I'm trying to find the balance, the middle path on this now. And that's part of my current discomfort with my current hubs -- trying to find the space where I'm inviting him to take care of me, without it being harshly demanded due to me being desperately needy... or resenting his needs for my attention. I literally don't know how to do this because I have very little experience that's been recorded in my brain-grooves. There is my unconditional love for my Ds... there are some people who were outside my FOO that generously made a difference... I do connect with people easily. And I like people and generally believe that people are good and do the right thing, most of the time. Fortunately this hubs isn't an N; he comes from a very caring, supportive and giving family and he understands this crap I've been through. Where we get lost in confusion, I think, is when I misread his motivations or throw it against the brain-groove patterns of what I've lived with most of my life and try to force it into that pattern. It's the damn pattern that's flawed, and it's probably time to either trashcan it or redraw it.

Thanks for bringing up this topic, Ales. What revelations are you getting from your reading? Can you piece them together yet?
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

sKePTiKal

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Re: Anyone here think they are CoDependent?
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2011, 09:30:17 AM »
Hi Kay... unsolicited advice coming your way...

First, I've been keeping up with your Members' board posts. I second Hops' advice that you can wrap your arms around and comfort and listen to your child self and that even if it feels rediculous at first... some good will come of this. I did this kind of therapy; that's who "Twiggy" is. For now, just practicing this - setting aside 5 or 10 mins a day to do this, religiously (and making up the time, if your normal appt is interrupted) - is like preventative medicine. A wellness practice. It can happen while you're journalling... or at a different time. There's more you can do with that child-self - but not until you look forward to your hug sessions and it feels good... and you're used to it. Both have to want to do this. And your child self might understandably be a bit shy and tentative and frightened. A couple weeks of practice... and you might start noticing that your child self shows up in your attention/awareness... kind of like a Tinker-Bell presence. Then you know you're ready to move on.

AND, most importantly, it's OK to not push yourself, take your time and allow yourself to simply put the work down and give yourself a "time-out" from the work. Practice self-care... and up the amount of it a little. Be a hermit, if that feels attractive. Be social and just take what you know... what you're learning with you... and try to relax and just have fun for a few weeks. The heavy-lifting will wait for you to be ready. You'll be just fine.

It's OK. Everything's all right. There are no rules and no "right" way to heal... but do know that the healing is real, even if it happens in such a way that we don't see it, except in retrospect.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

KayZee

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Re: Anyone here think they are CoDependent?
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2011, 10:36:20 AM »
 Hops & P.R.---->Thank you so much for the support & advice.  It's a tremendous comfort during a rather tough period. 

Quote
An inner child isn't a concept.
  You are quite right, there.  Have this terrible habit (desperately trying to break it) of intellectualizing everything.  Suppose it's some old coping mechanism carried over from the past:  in the absence of information, it helped to search desperately for meaning, concoct theories about why things happened and why FOO behaved as they did.  That kind of thinking has long since stopped being helpful; it's rather detrimental.

I would love to get to this point:
Quote
you might start noticing that your child self shows up in your attention/awareness... kind of like a Tinker-Bell presence.
  I'll definitely try journaling from IC's perspective.  Can't really imagine any other way of accessing her.  Another age-old habit: easiest, always, to confide in print. 

lots of love to you all
and thank you, Kay x

Lupita

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Re: Anyone here think they are CoDependent?
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2011, 08:11:16 AM »
The need for approval is codependency too. It does not have to be controlling other people. It could be allow other people to walk all over you just to get a little bit of "love". That is codependency too.

Anybody here with that problem? Feeling uncomfortable because someone did not to to you? or because someone gave you a look? suffering because you do not belong to a group?

That is codependency too.

I think I am overcoming all that because this Christmas I spent all 25th alone with my son and felt very very happy. We went to the movies, I prepared dinner for him and felt very very happy.  Did not need anybody else. Today I am going to visit a coda group to see what is about.

sunblue

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Re: Anyone here think they are CoDependent?
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2011, 10:32:01 AM »
I must say before I read this thread, I thought I understand what co-dependency was. But now I'm a bit confused.  My dad is completely Co-D in my opinion.  His entire life is governed by my Nmom, has built no relationships with anyone else, will go along with whatever she wants and failed to protect any of his children from the N.  He needs her to do everything for him and will not make a decision on his own.  To me, that's Co-D.

However, there are some characteristics mentioned in this thread that I know I have and am wondering if that is true Co-D.  For example, I know I desperately want to "matter".  Because of that, I want some measure of acknowledgement, some "return" on all that I do.  I am overly generous to people, perhaps out of a need for approval, for an indication of "interest in me".  In my career, I have always gone above and beyond and, as a result, get used and taken advantage of...I am not able to set boundaries with employers for fear they will take away the part of my work I love.

But I tend to think if I were really Co-D, I wouldn't fight the Narcissism so hard. I would be like my dad and just go along and do so happily.  I would succumb to whatever the N wanted, believed, felt....but I don't. That's why, perhaps, I didn't turn out to be an N like my GC sister.  That is also why I am in such a bad emotional state.  Instead, I succumbed to lifelong depression...perhaps that is acute grief??

So ultimately I'm left confused.  I don't know what is Co-Dependency and what is just behavior of victims of N trying to make sense of it, trying to make things right.  I know I struggle with that the most.....The ideal of "fairness" (between the GC and others), the idea that everyone's opinions should matter (not just the Ns).  But isn't what the non-Co-D and non-N would feel?

Like others, I guess I don't understand where the line is----between true co-dependency and the normal strugles of a viction of Ns.