Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Twoapenny on April 05, 2024, 05:16:05 AM
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Hi everybody,
I hope you guys are well. I've been hard at work trying to get to the nub of 'why my life is such a mess' and it has been hard going at times! I've tried to keep up a regular routine of yoga, healthy food, plenty of water and early bedtimes, along with trying to limit internet use (or pointless internet use, to be more specific). I cancelled all the TV packages and we've gone back to watching DVDs which has completely changed my 'sit mindlessly in front of the TV for hours' problem as well.
I've been doing this thing called 'The Daily Practice' which I got off a self help channel on YouTube. It's based on a technique used by AA programme followers, apparently, and it simply consists of writing down all your fears and resentments, twice a day, and then meditating afterwards. I've not managed to do it twice a day very often and I quite often don't meditate afterwards either, but despite that it has been very revealing to me when trying to get to the bottom of the two main issues in my life, which seem to be (a) my deathly talent for procrastination and (b) the unhelpful patterns that seem to repeat endlessly no matter how hard I try to change my external circumstances or my own behaviour. What has become apparent over the last few months is that fear is at the bottom of every situation in my life. I discovered that I'm just as afraid of succeeding as I am at failing which I hadn't realised before, and I realised that, whatever I do, there is a criticism that accompanies it. If I don't cut the grass I'm lazy, if I do cut it it's because I've got an easy life and I've got time, if I don't cook from scratch it's because I'm lazy, if I do it's because I'm at home all day and I've got nothing better to do, and so on. I was aware of that aspect of myself but it's something I've found very difficult to stop.
The last few days have been very revealing because i realised that what I've actually always been terrified of is making my mother angry. I have no conscious memory of ever thinking this, or feeling it. I think this must have bedded in very young, pre-language, and has been there all along without ever being really obvious to me. I realised the problem we had growing up was that we had to be good enough not to cause her any problems or embarrassment (or create any extra work for her) but we couldn't be good at anything in real terms, like cooking, gardening, relationships, school, work, parenting or anything else. She's so destructive that any sign we had talent in any area we were mocked and put down, or it was presented back to us as being snobby, up ourselves, thinking we were 'it' and all manner of other nonsense. I have always been aware she did that but I don't think I ever realised just how deeply entrenched that was in me. Almost a reality of being seen and not heard. What kind of person feels so threatened by an eight year old getting ten out of ten in a spelling test that they have to say something nasty instead of saying 'well done'? It beggars belief.
The result of that is that I've had a few days of feeling like I've stepped out of some sort of parallel universe. Everything feels very real and like I'm seeing it for the first time. It's an odd sensation, because I also feel like a woman who's been battling every minute of the last fifty years and I really just want to lie on a deserted beach in the sunshine with a friendly waiter bringing drinks and snacks every couple of hours. Preferably for the next ten years :) There's a life ahead of me now but I've genuinely no idea what I should do with it. It feels exciting and scary at the same time. Tired more than anything! But wondering what the future holds.
The upshot of all of that is that i got a call from my sister to say my mum had phoned, saying she has cancer. My first question to my sister was "do you think she's telling the truth this time?" and my sister's reply was that she doesn't know. We were trying to work it out and we think this is the fourth time she's claimed she has cancer. On previous occasions she's implied cancer is present and she's had to have surgery and other treatment. Then she's denied she ever said it and when we've gone through what she's said she's been able to, quite correctly, say "well I didn't actually use the word cancer, did I? You've assumed that". And this ridiculous merry dance has repeated itself with regard to other situations and health problems as well. So whether she is ill this time or not we don't know. The gathering of other relatives has already started; my sister had a call from my aunt, who herself had received a call from a cousin. Fortunately no-one has my number. I asked my sister if she's going to go down there and she said no because she knows the sort of abuse she'll get from my step-dad. Truthfully I'm suspicious of the timing; the lovely father of a childhood friend of mine passed away recently and we went down for the funeral. My sister got the call from my mum on the day of the funeral, and given the way gossip spreads down there I'd lay money she knew we'd gone down for it. This is another pattern of hers; attention is being given elsewhere so she has to draw it back to herself. I could be wrong and it might just be coincidence but it's those repeating patterns again. She followed up a couple of days later with another call to my sister, saying she'd received flowers without a card and were they from her? She does this every time as well, there's always an anonymous delivery to wish her well.
I've been waiting to see how I feel about it all; given her age now if she really does have cancer then the treatment is very gruelling and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy (which is probably what she is). I'm not looking forward to being older and having those thoughts about whether each health scare is a sign my number's up and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, either. But knowing her as I do, she won't be reaching out for support at a time like this, she'll be looking for a whipping boy, someone she can criticise, jerk around, manipulate and generally have some control over. She's run out of contenders, really, none of her children, grandchildren or great grandchildren have any contact with her and the few people she still has in her life have only ever seen her 'wonderful' side, so she won't be able to unleash reality on them. I thought back to all the times since I've had my son that I've been ill and how awful she was when he was little, what horrible games she played when my mental health was so precarious and all the crisis situations I've had to go through since then alone because I was too scared of her finding out that I was in a weakened state and coming after me again. Even with private therapists I was never fully transparent because I knew my records could be subpoenaed and there were things I didn't want getting dragged through a court.
I thought about the fact she hasn't contacted me directly, when she's always found herself perfectly capable of doing so to harass, threaten or intimidate us and I wondered about the relevance of that. I know there will be (normal!) people who will say I should contact her because I'll regret it if I don't speak to her before she dies and I thought about that a lot. Truthfully, my only regret is that I didn't pack a bag when I was seventeen and never look back. It wouldn't have repaired the childhood damage but it would stopped a lot of the adult stuff from happening.
I'm quite surprised to find I don't really feel anything. Not in a numb kind of way, but I think I really, truly am done, not just with her but with the family drama altogether. My sister started to talk about her ridiculous ex partner's behaviour and I cut her off and said I was just on my way out. I haven't contacted any of my other siblings because I don't want to get dragged back in to the drama party. I'm making good progress on myself - I don't know what the next step is but it feels like it will be a step forward, not a step toward the spider's web. I saw both my sister and my brother last time we went down, separately, and came away not wanting to see either of them again. I'm just done with it all. The feelings of guilt, responsibility, what about the kids, all of that seems to have gone. Whether it's just tiredness or whether it's really behind me I don't know, but it isn't there so I'm focusing on that for now.
So that's where I'm at :) I hope all of you are well and getting some spring weather. We've had nothing but rain for months now; I feel like a swamp donkey :) xx
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Well hello there! So nice to read your update! You sound good.
My condolences on the seasonal sogginess; we've had it here too. But soon it'll be May flowers and be much more pleasant.
I can totally relate to your feelings about your mom. Seems normal to me! I had heard the same caution about regrets, and while we never really "made peace" (wasn't possible) I can say the same thing I felt before - I just didn't feel anything about her, even though I still wished it had been possible to bridge the distance between us. I still struggle with the old conditioning, at times, even though she's been gone a year now. My brother probably doesn't understand why I didn't rush to his side either. He's not brought it up.
I'm kinda thinking that perfectionism, and the constant pursuit of "evolving" or "working on ourselves" is a symptom of that conflict between fear of failure/success. If we'd just sit with ourselves for 5 minutes, and tell ourselves that we are just fine the way we are and that we LIKE ourselves... acceptance might take the edge off the inner critic's sharp tongue. But that's likely more about where I'm at, than for anyone else.
I guess I wanna say, life isn't a race or competition. No one really "wins" it. It's more of jouney filled with discoveries, challenges, tough spots, and those rare perfect days. It's not our jobs to "make today" what it is, completely... but it can be a collaboration with all the things/people around us.
Good job, Tupp! Take some big deep spring breaths and soar on...
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Tupp, dear--
I CELEBRATE your not feeling much about her. What a leap in healing!
I guess the ultimate "release the outcome" is when the last toxic thread between you and her doesn't "snap" but gently floats away because you've unclenched your grip on that part of your identity, meaning as a part of her. Unclenched it, released it.
Nobody wants any elder to suffer. Elders like her survive until the end still harming people around them. So you're just still wise, sane Tupp. Not walking into fire.
I thought your new revelations are extraordinary, and that you in fact live an extraordinarily meaningful life. Your level of insight astonishes me, as ever.
hugs
Hops
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Thanks, Skep :) It's a weird situation, isn't it? I was trying to explain to someone yesterday (who was aghast that I wasn't rushing to her side) that she isn't normal. I hate using the word because we all know there's no such thing, but I know what she's like and a crisis (if indeed there is one at all) isn't something she seeks support in dealing with, it's an opportunity for the victimhood and the puppet making behaviour that she thrives on. I asked myself if she got in touch, and if she said sorry and if she asked me to go, would I? And the answer's still no. In a way I'm relieved because my big worry was that if and when a time did come that she needed me I'd still rush off to her, partly because I just hate the thought of people having to cope alone. But even that feeling isn't there now. A relative from overseas has arrived and she tends to fly in when there's a crisis (sometimes the local gossip is a good thing for me) which may mean she really is ill this time. But I still don't want to go near her.
With regards to the self improvement stuff, I think I'll start to relax a bit when I can see changes in my external environment - when I can start to form healthy relationships, or meet more people who accept disability or even encounter a social worker who can write a factually accurate report. I think then my feeling that there is some sort of black cloud over me will lift. But yes, it can become an endless quest and that's just as unhealthy as not trying to figure out anything at all. Hope all is well on the mountain! And that B's medical situation is less arduous than it was.
Thanks, Hopsie. You're right, elder suffering is awful and I really don't like to think of it. But then, her reactions to this won't be the ones most would have and she's actually in a much better situation than most. Husband is still there, they have a lovely home, plenty of money, dozens of wonderful friends (according to her) and my two clueless cousins who do her bidding for her as her evil daughters left her to fend for herself. They might be a bit less keen to involve themselves if they start actually having to do anything other than agree with everything she says. And if they hadn't both been so vile they'd have four adult children and eight adult grandchildren who would drop what they were doing to go and assist, and who might all be living nearby still if putting hundreds of miles between us all hadn't been the only way to escape. But she won't see any of that, it will all be about how she's been abandoned after years of selfless devotion. Yes, I'm steering well clear. It has been interesting that the last 'release the outcome' has happened without any fanfare, as you say. I had thought I'd have to do battle with myself if something like this occurred but no, there's no inclination there on my part. One thing I am grateful for is I do feel I've learnt from my mother's mistakes and that's worth a lot for me. I don't think my son's been through the same childhood that I did and I'm grateful for that. I hope your ribs are feeling better soon! xx
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Hi, Tupp. I'm so glad you're releasing the fear around your mother and what you'd do/will do if she's ill.
Nobody can sustain that "poor me, all my kids and grandkids abandoned me after I did everything perfect."
There'll be cracks in mum's facade and all will become clear, IME.
It's interesting what washes up in the subconscious shore when left to be what it is. Releasing what I thought it could be or would be it , God forbid, should be leaves space to relax into clarity, come what may.
I do like the idea of leaving room for just not knowing. Simple. It takes up space I usually fill with connecting old dots or fearing into future and I've noticed my intuition is sharper, wiser, quicker. That part's a very happy shift in how I move in the moment and what I leave behind.....so much of the past just keeps falling away, like a crust, heavy and old.
I'm hoping all your rain means trees, flowers and shrubs are about to explode into joyful color. My sister and I are intensely engaged in saving Hemlocks from the forest and we got so many planted the last 3 days! Joyfully making and covering ourselves in mud so you're in a good group!!!
Maybe all the negative battling thoughts will become familiar friends you notice, comfort and calm into silence? Seizing all the little joys of cooking and being in nature can be just those things, IME.
The negative thoughts, protective and wounded parts, can't be banished, but they can be noticed and tended to, IME.
Everything belongs, but it's lovely to grow the healthy and uplifting things while letting the other parts know they've done their jobs.... it's ok to rest.
((((Tupp)))) I'm so happy to see you're back! Even if it's a little visit.
Lighter
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Hi, Tupp. I'm so glad you're releasing the fear around your mother and what you'd do/will do if she's ill.
Nobody can sustain that "poor me, all my kids and grandkids abandoned me after I did everything perfect."
There'll be cracks in mum's facade and all will become clear, IME.
It's interesting what washes up in the subconscious shore when left to be what it is. Releasing what I thought it could be or would be it , God forbid, should be leaves space to relax into clarity, come what may.
I do like the idea of leaving room for just not knowing. Simple. It takes up space I usually fill with connecting old dots or fearing into future and I've noticed my intuition is sharper, wiser, quicker. That part's a very happy shift in how I move in the moment and what I leave behind.....so much of the past just keeps falling away, like a crust, heavy and old.
I'm hoping all your rain means trees, flowers and shrubs are about to explode into joyful color. My sister and I are intensely engaged in saving Hemlocks from the forest and we got so many planted the last 3 days! Joyfully making and covering ourselves in mud so you're in a good group!!!
Maybe all the negative battling thoughts will become familiar friends you notice, comfort and calm into silence? Seizing all the little joys of cooking and being in nature can be just those things, IME.
The negative thoughts, protective and wounded parts, can't be banished, but they can be noticed and tended to, IME.
Everything belongs, but it's lovely to grow the healthy and uplifting things while letting the other parts know they've done their jobs.... it's ok to rest.
((((Tupp)))) I'm so happy to see you're back! Even if it's a little visit.
Lighter
(((Lighter)))))) It is/has been interesting to be able to take a more detached view on a lot of things just lately. My social media/online embargo has been helpful for that. I did a karmic cord cutting meditation yesterday, in which you visualise the person you want to detach from and go through a ritual of doing so. I see my mum standing before me and I hate her, and then watch her transform into a terribly sad and lonely little girl, desperate to be loved and aching for someone to hold her. I know that's the bit that troubles me with any troubled soul that crosses my path - what I see and feel is that terrible loss children bear alone and how it creates these terribly hostile and aggressive adults. That's the bit I'm working on at the minute - seeing the current reality and dealing with that in real terms. I feel so sad for the broken children part but I made a deal with myself that I'd only step in to fix that if asked - no unsolicited advice, no offering to do things in case it helps, no sucking it up in the hope they'll see it for themselves. That said, at this stage if my mum did ring and ask for help, I think the only thing I'd be willing to do is find information and send it to her. Something that involves no contact and direct communication. Not that she would but it's a position I found for myself that feels comfortable should the need occur.
Yes to relaxing into outcomes and leaving unknowns as they are. I still find that very difficult. Decades of having to shore up against every possible attack from every possible angle in every way imaginable. It's hard work rewiring the processes and I do fall back into my old habits a lot. But, two steps forward and all that :) xx
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You're a very kind person, Tupp. Letting your mum's wounded child go is all you can do, IME. Her protective parts won't allow anyone to help....most of all you, so You're off the hook. Ready or not. She would never let you in, imo.
I'd be likely to research and forward through third parties, myself. Action would help me get back to normal.....the act of doing what I could, then turning back to self care joy is a sort of meditation, I find. Maybe it's a life skill or healthy coping strategy I never learned, but needed desperately as an empathic child not allowed boundaries.
I limit t screen time too, Tupp or I'd tap out SHE LET GO once again for the board. I have taped in the bathroom and it's always a comfort and relief.....a touchstone of sorts.
Lighter
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You're a very kind person, Tupp. Letting your mum's wounded child go is all you can do, IME. Her protective parts won't allow anyone to help....most of all you, so You're off the hook. Ready or not. She would never let you in, imo.
I'd be likely to research and forward through third parties, myself. Action would help me get back to normal.....the act of doing what I could, then turning back to self care joy is a sort of meditation, I find. Maybe it's a life skill or healthy coping strategy I never learned, but needed desperately as an empathic child not allowed boundaries.
I limit t screen time too, Tupp or I'd tap out SHE LET GO once again for the board. I have taped in the bathroom and it's always a comfort and relief.....a touchstone of sorts.
Lighter
Lighter, this thing you said - "her protective parts won't allow anyone to help" has rattled around in my brain since I read it. Not just because it's absolutely true of my mum, she actively destroys anyone who has a healthy kind of love for her (like her own adult children) but because I think it applies to me as well. I've been trying to puzzle out the 'help' situation for myself, largely because I don't find a lot of what is offered as help, helpful. Sometimes that is just practicality (a friend saying they're happy to listen when what I really need is someone to sort the garden out) but it's also that vulnerability that goes with needing and/or accepting help. It was always something that was mocked when I was a child, a way of someone demonstrating their superiority over me, showing me how stupid I was, how pathetic (usually attached to being female as simply being less physically strong than my step-father was used as an example of how superior men are to women), another way of tying me to someone (i did this for you, you must do this for me), and so on. And it's something I've noticed in my own reactions towards others now, I do feel a sense of contempt? not sure if that's too strong a word, but I've noticed lately that I really lack compassion for others and find myself tutting at people not knowing how to deal with situations that seem obvious to me. It's weird, isn't it, how much we internalise and how long it can take us to realise that?
I'm still trying to follow a routine of yoga, meditation, writing down fears and so on. It has transpired that my mum's cancer does seem to be real this time. I have still kept my distance. My sister has also kept contact to a minimum (in fact, the whole family seem to circling round one another waiting to see what happens next). I think we all know the lack of contact will have made her furious and it's a case now of waiting to see who she goes after this time. I'm grateful we live so far away.
I've focused on meditations that involve visualising cutting chords, it seems to be helpful at the moment. I did more with my mum and that seemed to settle things down after a while. I've done several with my step-dad, it was odd to realise how terrified I still am of him. But that, too, seems to have settled a bit. Most recently I felt I needed to cut ties with that version of myself that was created as a way of coping with everything over the years. That was an odd one, it did feel like I was abandoning a child somewhere. I cried a lot. It's odd how these things/people/versions of who we are don't really exist yet seem more real and have taken up more space in the world than we have ourselves. Onwards and upwards and all that. I hope all is well with you xx
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I'm in a verbal vomiting phase at the minute :)
I've been thinking a lot about my situation with my son. I don't have concerns that there's enabling going on; I'm very aware of what he can and can't do and spend a lot of time supporting him to do as much as he can for himself, only stepping in when it's absolutely necessary. But I have been thinking a lot about my own co-dependency issues, and I do think for a long time my son's situation has meant I have had many situations where I could be the best at something, when compared to others. I haven't done it for that reason, I genuinely want what's best for him and that is him being able to do as much as possible for himself, and having a good network of decent people around him, personally and professionally. I'm also very aware (as I think we all are) of the damage parents can do, intentionally or otherwise, and I very desperately did not ever want him to feel the way I've always felt when my mother's around. But I do feel he's my only success in life. Take him away and I'm just another mediocre person bumbling through, and having never had a sense of being good enough, simply by existing, mediocrity has never been a comfortable option for me.
I've thought about this in connection with my public sector experiences, having had just another dreadful one and come away shaking my head at how clueless and ineffective they are. I was looking at the many boxes of paperwork I'm steadily scanning my way through and at how many times they've done a terrible job, how many times I've thought, quite rightly, that if I did paid work instead of fighting them I could pay for what he needs myself, and looked at how ineffective the whole situation has been throughout his life. And I realised that public sector staff are probably the only people I can feel superior to. I don't mean in a snobby way, but we are on a low income, in local authority housing and as such, we are the dregs of society. We have no value and I have found that really hard to live with over the years. If I compare myself to people who earn, there is no comparison, even a part time minimum wage job pays more than we receive in benefits. People are automatically afforded more status by going out to work. When it comes to knowledge and lived experience, I can beat public sector staff hands down. They're so badly trained, and so hampered by ineffective systems and incompetent management that anyone with an ounce of common sense and some mild experience of managing a health problem can trump them. And I got to thinking, is that why I keep going back to them for help? Even though I know they will never provide what he needs (or me, for that matter), is it some perverse way of making myself feel I'm better than someone else? Getting a bit dark, maybe I'm not on the right track with this but it feels like something I should think about some more.
I've also noticed that I do a lot of silly stuff around my son - songs and jokes, silly dances and walks, things that are better suited to a younger child. It annoys him, and he tells me so, but still I find myself doing it, almost without realising it. I'm not sure I know how to relate to him as an adult, and that's something I need to figure out. Part of it is I do feel I get unconditional love from him and I've never had that from anyone else. I think it might trigger something in me. But I don't want to end up with a dysfunctional relationship because I haven't been able to change as he has.
With that in mind I've been doing more cord cutting meditations, not because I want him out of my life, but because I don't want to become something or someone that holds him back or keeps him pinned in one place. Equally I don't want my existence to revolve around him, or his around me. It isn't healthy for either of us. Interestingly in the meditations I can't visualise him as an adult, only as a little boy. He's half a human taller than me and considerably stronger and heavier so something is off there! Lol.
Anyway, just rambling and spilling it out somewhere, it's observations rather than concerns. Things are pretty good, we've had some dry weather so the garden is looking lush rather than swampy now. Finances are easier thanks to some very kind people helping us out on that front a while back so there's less pressure on that front as well. Hope all is good with everyone else :)
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Well this is weird! I've got three big boxes of paperwork to sort out so I tackled one this morning. Eight years of paperwork in there, all relating to health, education or social care. I have always thought of this paperwork as being related to my son. But going through it this morning, I realised almost all of it is actually about the battles I've had with my mum. Most of it focuses on the complaints I've put in after my mum's claims (most of which I didn't know about until much later) created child protection investigations or refusals from professionals to carry out assessments my son needed. Almost all of this crap we've been through relates back to my mum, indirectly, to a certain extent, but it definitely represents her and the way she behaves more than it represents me or my boy. The assessments that are just about him are relatively straightforward and don't take up a lot of space. Mental health reports about me before she started her terror campaign are straightforward and quite complimentary. You can see there's a definite change in attitude from staff once she started sticking her oar in. Silly bint should have found herself a hobby.
I've had very little in the way of emotional reactions to it all other than irritation or frustration at the futility of it all, and incredulity at how easily she pulled the wool over so many people eyes. It was all so easy to check, with me, and with other professionals, yet no-one bothered. They took her 'opinion' over the factual input of probably a dozen other professionals. How weird is that?
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((((Tupp)))),
I have always been amazed at the depth and honesty of your introspection, and the maturity of your conclusions.
I remain amazed. There's something so enormously truthful (non-denial, accountability, active response to insight, etc) about your processing of your own life, personality, needs, strengths and weaknesses.
I believe your mother has been a dank, oppressive and suppressive force in your life for long enough, and as you look back, I feel as though you have cut many many cords to her. What once looked like a rope that could secure a tugboat has frayed down to threads. Nature will rot those away in its own pace, but you're free.
Looking back, that's an extraordinary process of will to thrive, love for Son, and refusal to let her drag you like an anchor again. You have become your own anchor, to raise or set as you see fit. Wow.
Being poor sucks. And you have your own good mind, a Son who loves you (quit singing baby songs to him!), and perceptiveness. Astonishing perceptiveness.
Bravo, you.
hugs
Hops
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Thanks, Hops. It's odd how things feel very confused and stuck for a long time, and then they seem to shift free again.
Now here's another odd thing, and I wanted to ask you guys what you think, just as an observation thing, not with a view to doing anything about it.
I kept thinking about all these times my mum has contacted professionals making claims about me abusing my son. What I can't get my head around is why she did it in the way that she did. It happened each time she and I fell out. I've always presumed that to be her response to losing control over me, and I'd always had it in my head that what she was trying to do was to get custody of my son, or some sort of enforced input in his life. But reading through all this paperwork again, there's no mention in there, at any time, of her trying to get him or suggesting he should be taken from me. What she did each time is contact someone claiming that my son's problems were down to my parenting of him; my mental health problems making me a bad parent. When I was in hospital during a breakdown she isolated me by telling friends I wasn't allowed visitors (I didn't find out until many years later). She told docs at the hospital that she was happy to have me stay with her and then as soon as I got in the car she told me I couldn't stay more than two nights. She called docs telling them I was out of control and my behaviour was so bad they couldn't have me in the house; I'd done nothing and didn't know about that until a long time after, either. She at no time during the period I was ill raised any concerns with social workers or any other members of staff about my treatment of my son; there's not even any redacted information during that period which would indicate she told them something she didn't want them to know about (in fact there's very little interaction between her and the social worker other than brief notes about childcare arrangements and emergency phone numbers).
So we've gone through the actual period of me being ill with her exaggerating and/or making up things about me, with no mention of me mistreating or neglecting my son (from her, or anyone else). We went through about a year or more of early interaction between me and the health visitor, doctor, speech therapist and paediatrician without any input from my mum to any of those people (again, no redacted information, no weird or out of place comments). We moved to a different area that summer (different team of docs, social workers etc) but she didn't contact anybody for about four months after that, and that was when she claimed I'd caused all his problems through my treatment of him when I was ill. I'm kind of baffled as to how they all accepted that. He was very young; for me to have done that I'd have had to have severely neglected him from birth really, it would be odd for him to have remained in my care if that were the case? And even more odd that we'd be able to move from one county to another without any information being passed between professional teams. Added to which we weren't in hiding; he was in nursery, registered with a doc, attending groups and so on. So them accepting what she said without anything to back it up is really weird but it's also only just dawning on me that what she really seemed to doing in all this is exaggerating my health problems and trying to convince people they were severe enough to damage my son in that way.
Could she be suffering from that fabricated illness thing, do you think? I'm not sure what they call it now, it used to be munchausen's, I've heard it called fictitious disorder as well. The fake cancer thing has played on my mind through the day and now I'm starting to wonder if this whole thing has actually been about her pretending I had health problems I didn't have. I've got a report where she claimed I had schizophrenia and could switch personalities without warning which would have been funny if it hadn't been so serious, but she put together an almost cartoon like description of how she claimed I was to someone at one time. All of it completely made up.
I'm just thinking out loud really, but for some reason re-reading some of that paperwork over the weekend, I've seen some things in a different light and I'm starting to wonder if my interpretation of this has been wrong. I've always thought she was trying to get my boy but now I'm starting to wonder if it was all about attention being paid to her?
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Hi Tupp. Speculating on the why of your mom's behavior now, probably won't turn up any specific, accurate answers. But the new vantage point you're in right now has certainly offered a new perspective on it! Noticing the lack of stated threat to control/manage your son IS a big deal. I'd see that, as meaning you were the target all along for her harassment. Why, is kinda impossible to know and likely she doesn't know at this point in time either. Stuff like that gets lost in the filmstrips of the past, the older we get.
Maybe it was all about her wanting attention; maybe she was intuitively conscious she was pushing you & son away and didn't want to lose her favorite "I'll pick on her and feel strong again" ego coping mechanism. Maybe she's just always been this way, and there was nothing you were; nothing you said; nothing you did that created this situation between you two. I do still kinda believe that sometimes daughters are born to mismatched moms for whatever "life challenge lessons" there are to derive from it. I see it a lot in the difference in my two daughters; my silly relationship with my mom that caused me so much difficulty in life, for awhile.
It'll be interesting to see what you discover, or think about this after you've pondered it some.
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Hi Tupp. Speculating on the why of your mom's behavior now, probably won't turn up any specific, accurate answers. But the new vantage point you're in right now has certainly offered a new perspective on it! Noticing the lack of stated threat to control/manage your son IS a big deal. I'd see that, as meaning you were the target all along for her harassment. Why, is kinda impossible to know and likely she doesn't know at this point in time either. Stuff like that gets lost in the filmstrips of the past, the older we get.
Maybe it was all about her wanting attention; maybe she was intuitively conscious she was pushing you & son away and didn't want to lose her favorite "I'll pick on her and feel strong again" ego coping mechanism. Maybe she's just always been this way, and there was nothing you were; nothing you said; nothing you did that created this situation between you two. I do still kinda believe that sometimes daughters are born to mismatched moms for whatever "life challenge lessons" there are to derive from it. I see it a lot in the difference in my two daughters; my silly relationship with my mom that caused me so much difficulty in life, for awhile.
It'll be interesting to see what you discover, or think about this after you've pondered it some.
Thanks, Skep. I think you're right about the different perspective being helpful, and about the mothers and daughters thing. I spoke to my sister about it all this morning. Two interesting things came up from that - one is the way the different pieces of information we each have form a completely different picture, for both of us. The other is how well my sister and I communicate when we talk about this really deep messed up stuff. When we have light and airy, chit chat conversations we both annoy one another immensely and end up getting snippy.
It has already meant my anxiety about my son has dropped considerably. I'd always felt I needed to protect him from her but that's just evaporated. I don't think it was ever about him now. It sounds silly but I've always had a nagging fear that some of what she said about me was true, and that her attempts to intervene were some sort of misguided effort to help, albeit from a place of not really understanding the situation. But now - I honestly think all of it was about getting attention for herself and we were just the unfortunate vehicle for that. It means a lot of the 'what was so wrong with me' thinking has vanished as well.
She has called my sister to say there was more cancer than was first thought, and that she needs more surgery. We don't know if this is true, or if she's increased the story because she didn't get the response she wanted to the first one. It does seem that she had some sort of hospital procedure (this has come via the village grapevine). True or not, whilst I don't want her to suffer, we are all keeping well away. I feel kind of detached from it all. She's done so much damage but has flown under the radar with it all. Very, very dangerous.
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Well lovelies, I am logging on this morning to tell you all that I am feeling very proud of myself :) And genuinely so, not in some vain attempt to bolster myself up.
I have sorted through another big box of paperwork. Fewer revelations about my mum this time, but it's become clear to me that the amount of paperwork that actually relates to myself or my son is fairly small - think a couple of box files worth. Things we currently need can easily be stored in a drawer or a single ring binder. Almost all of this colossal weight of paper that I have lugged from house to house over so many moves is my mum. Literally. I didn't have her in my life any more, so she made sure she was represented in some other way, and she's done it by generating paperwork for me to deal with. Even when I got to the point of telling her I wasn't going to deal with her problems any more, she's just created other problems that I had no choice but to manage. Stupid, pointless, ridiculous woman.
What I am proud of, as I work my way through these paperwork mountains and the many allegations, communications, complaints and follow ups over the years, is the way I've handled it. At the same time as providing 24 hour support for my son (and doing it well) I have dealt with all of these situations in the correct way - on paper, in accordance with the procedures, correcting inaccuracies, requesting information, getting to a point in each case where staff have had to admit that either the procedure was not adhered to and/or that the information they were using was inaccurate. Polite, calm, measured, coherent, cohesive paperwork, all of which, over the years, has been filed, stored and kept available in case it was needed again. It's a twenty year documented history of abuse, and it's an interesting read. I have behaved better than most of the professionals involved (there have been a few that did a good job and it was nice to remind myself of them) and I've behaved a thousand times better than my mum. I have done a bloody good job and I am genuinely feeling proud of myself for being a decent human, and a good mum. Albeit one with an achy hip lol xx
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What are your plans for the mum paperwork, when you're done reviewing & sorting Tupp?
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No plans for that, Skep. My original intention was to sort through the paperwork with a view to putting together a document regarding my son, so that all the useful and necessary information is in one place, easy to read and simple to use. So my plan was to scan documents, then pick out what was most useful and relevant and put that information in one document, with a link to the original so it's easy to find if needed (I'm thinking if I get hit by a bus scenario because no-one's going to wade through hundreds of pieces of paper looking for specific details and likely a lot of important stuff will get overlooked.
The mum paperwork was an unexpected side effect of that; I'd honestly thought all this time that almost all of the paperwork was relevant to my son but it's now clear that's not the case. So I'm sticking to my original remit and working through what I need for him and getting that put together. Everything else is put to one side for now; I'll deal with it when I feel the time is right for me. She's not dictating anything anymore and all the stuff that's connected to her can wait until I've done everything I want to do. It's just been a nice feeling for it to become clear that there is really something very wrong with her At times I've thought it more personality clash, she's a product of her environment type of thing. But going through it from the beginning, in a calm, non-stressed situation (ie not fighting a bunch of malicious allegations) it's clear that there's something about her that's unhinged and she's way beyond 'difficult'. So for not I'm enjoying how easy a scanner makes everything to do; I can search for specific words, phrases and dates, cut and paste what I need into the new document, insert a link to the original document and then just press save. Next step is the shredder :) Lol
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Hi, Tupp: Sorry you're still going through boxes and trying to put together a cohesive document with every important THING in one place. I understand how imperative that feels, esp for you with your darling boy.
It's good you and your sister are connecting. I don't understand why the chit chat is so upsetting and the deeper stuff brings calm communication, but I'm glad that's brought some peace.
As for your mum's protective parts........I'm reminded of Mud's words......"There's no making sense of nonsensical PD behaviors that will never make sense." I'm paraphrasing, but there's a bit of peace in there. Whatever drives your mother... whatever fears and shame and installed software bounces around her head, it makes her dangerous to those who venture near,. IME.
I was reminded how powerful inner belief systems are when you posted you believe your mother's motives are likely about herself and nothing to do with you..... but for years your fears about your abilities and mental health kicked in and you assumed her motives were about saving or helping your son.
My T said toxic words and attacks from others have zero power over us UNLESS we buy into them, even a speck's worth. I have to assume someone put fear and shame in your child/mother's software and she's spent a lifetime lashing out to prove it isn't HER with problems.... so it has to be everyone else, right?
Your mum had no ability to self reflect.... her damaged/protective inner children believe they won't survive that, IME. Her disordered thinking compounded and built on itself..... landed on you and your sister and children.
Your protective and wounded parts believe everthing is YOUR fault..... on some level.... and that makes it easier for you to self reflect and see what's really there. You're growing and educating yourself. You're restoring choice and healing generational trauma.I'm not even gonna pronounce that a triumph..... I'm gonna suspend all judgment and let it be what it is.
Your mother's protective and wounded parts believe everything is someone eles's fault. She's manufactured a lifetime of false narratives around herself... and I agree with you..... it's all about her. Nothing to do with you or your son or sister.
Writing that out helps me make peace with difficult things I wrestle with, Tupp.
It helps me release judgment.... more easily....more quickly..... sometimes skip it entirely... and that's turning out to be an important shortcut.
As for the people who believe the PD lies and don't do their jobs..... I've put myself in their shoes, mentally, many times. It's circular and there are no easy fixes for PDs telling outrageous lies with sincerity and false motives. I'd be overwhelmed completely in those jobs.
As long as there's lack of training, education in mental health and abuse.... as long as the pay is low and the demands overwhelming and impossible to meet.... as long as there's lack of accountability and compassion, esp at the top...... this is the reality for people dealing with and stuck in the systems, IME.
And.... the wounded and protective parts of people working in the system are the easiest to manipulate, IME.
If I get some distance on it...... I see there are far more people who aren't buying into the PD craziness...... but it's difficult to SEE, bc disproving the PD crazy ATE YEARS OF MY LIFE. Ate the years I should have been building fairy houses in the woods with my girls.... ate them WHOLE.
Lighter
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Tupp...hon....
I'll just assert something that went GONNNGGGG in my head as I tried to catch up with the thread. (I don't know if it's insight or I've just made it up, but sometimes a thought hits in a certain way.)
I think it's possible that the main reason you were targeted by your broken mother is that she was unconsciously jealous of your stepfather's fixation on you. I started realizing that a lot of what was broken between my mother and me was her discomfort at my closeness to my father (and she was a child of a male abuser). Your stepfather was twisted and evil, but that was attention that you got, and any you got, she didn't. Once he turned his sick attention on you, she was no longer the big magnet at the center of everything. She lost a mjor form of power when he began to abuse you. (And of course you did NOT want his attention, ever.)
I don't know that your mother knew this was happening in her psyche, but I saw some version of that in my Nmother -- didn't understand it for most of my life, until I knew what happened in her childhood. She never left us alone if she could help it, tried to control and dictate my relationship with him, acted threatened if I had lunch with him sometime without her, etc. It was constantly strange, but after I learned more about her childhood from my cousin, it started to fit.
Does that make any sense?
I hate thinking of you carrying around this mountain of documentation of HER craziness, and spending your precious time going through it all once again. But your plan sounds so clear -- winnow it to the core documentation about and for your Son. I hope you won't even re-read (because it sounds like re-experiencing) the mother crap. Maybe it's only her death that will help you let go of her.
I am so sorry you drew her for the mother card, and him for the monster card. But you've played your own game of life vrey well and there's nothing either of them could do now, nothing whatsoever in any shape or form or fantasy, to hurt you again.
And I wish we could all come to the paper bonfire.
hugs
Hops
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Thanks, both :) Do you know the funniest thing is, I haven't thought about it again. Any of it. It's like it just magicked away. The paperwork will need to be shredded, I think that's safest. There are companies that do it but I quite like the idea of doing it myself. But I don't feel any need or desire to deal with it just now, it doesn't feel like a pressing or important job.
My mum's current saga is following its usual pattern of escalation, isn't it funny how the pattern is always the same? But she can't see it. And it looks like no-one is giving her the response she needs to carry on in her usual way, I think she's genuinely worn everyone out now. I almost feel sorry for her; your long trusted coping mechanism (however destructive it may be) not working during what is probably genuinely the most difficult time is hard, we've all been there. And in some ways I'm very glad I've learnt some of the hard lessons I have earlier on in life, I wouldn't like to have to face reality for the first time in my 80's. But I honestly don't feel any need to rescue, analyse, ponder, I've almost not thought about her. Not quite, but very nearly, and she's a whisper of a thought in my head instead of the bloody freight train she usually becomes. Interestingly I've been less anxious in general. Some of my anxiety based habits have lessened, not to the point of not being there at all but they've dropped from hard to resist compulsions to feelings of wanting that can be ignored.
So that's where we're at. The paperwork is done, son's document is almost there, needs a few tweaks and some double checking in places but it's nearly finished. Son has embarked on a huge clear out of toys, books, games, clothes and anything else that's been shored up in his room for many years. We're selling what we can, giving away what isn't worth selling and keeping a track of the money coming in so he can see the money for his next adventure adding up :) Going away camping soon and then hopefully away at least one weekend a month throughout the summer. The cat doesn't like being left and I feel mean taking him to the cattery but when we left him at home with a neighbour popping in we came home to a forest of dead mice upstairs and that was a grim task after a long car journey! The house is looking good, the garden's looking good, the weather's nice. Honestly feel like we haven't got a huge cloud hanging over us for the first time in a very long time and it's a good feeling :)
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Glad you are back in the present, (((((Tupp))))). Brava, you.
I'll bet spring in Scotland is amazing. I'm picturing heather, lambs on hillsides, fresh breezes (coastal?) and people with roses in their cheeks.
Hugs
Hops
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It is lovely, Hops :) I was up very early this morning and sat in the garden drinking my tea and watching the bats flying around :)
Two interesting things this week; my compulsion to step in and manage other people's feelings for them seems to have left me, and so to has my need to endlessly manage what I say so I don't inadvertently offend anyone. Someone local to us, an older disabled man we've got to know, had a bit of a situation going on. I didn't really have any way I could help out, realistically, and for the first time I didn't put myself in a ridiculous situation of over promising or planning some miraculous rescue. I just said I was sorry it was tough for him (which I am) but that I didn't have anything useful to offer (which was true) and I hoped someone else would be more useful. I should add he wasn't asking for help, simply telling me what was going on but usually that makes me put my rescue hat on. Just didn't happen and I only thought about it afterwards because I think it's the first time the feeling that I needed to manage that for someone else didn't come up.
Two situations this week where usually I would be very careful about what I said, but I wasn't. I wasn't rude and it wasn't an outburst, but again there just wasn't any emotion attached. I just said what I thought, standing up for myself in both cases, and left it there. Haven't spent endless amounts of time mithering over whether I did or said the right thing, or justifying it to myself in my head either. It just was, and that was that.
And on the back of that, an old friend turned up unexpectedly, I got a call early yesterday to say he'd be driving through later in the day and were we home. Said yes, genuinely pleased to see him, but too many memories of old life. Weed smoke (you can smell it on him), drinking (the smell and the talking about oneself - I hadn't realised before the reason I've spent so much time listening to others wang on is because drunk people just talk with no regard for who else is there) and a realisation that we don't actually have much in common and two hours was more than enough time to catch up. Didn't feel bad about telling him I was wanting to go to bed, told him he was welcome to use the house as he wanted to and then I went off and left him to it. Woke up this morning not feeling at all bad about being a less than gracious host and wanting to get on with the day.
Amazing. Keep wondering if this is how some people feel throughout their lives and if that's why it seems so much easier for them. Hoping it continues. Hope pup is doing well! xx
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Wow! I can feel your solidity and balance...what a good day that was. It does feel amazing when simple steps or internal shifts produce that feeling of "I am okay and it feels uncomplicated." You actually turned off the self-criticism. Brava.
Meanwhile, I turned cartwheels over delightful language things:
"mithering" and
"wang on"
Pup is a maniac. And so cute that my friend visiting brought him a basket of presents. She also brought her gorgeous elderly collie who was very intrigued until he began treating her like a jungle gym. He finally took a nap on her lovely tail. Amazed me how sweet and patient the old achy dog was with his bananas energy.
My house is an absolute wreck but he and I have settled into a pretty good routine. I still spend too much time waiting for the magic tidyup fairy. And the housetraining fairy. He's trying. Another dog-obsessed friend advised me that it really helps to behave like a demented cheerleader whenever he hits the right spot (puppy pad not just off it or in his blankie). Being a praise factory is actually good for my mental health. I'm so enthusiastic he looks at me like I've lost my mind, but it does appear to help him notice what he did right.
hugs
Hops
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Puppies are assimilating so much new knowlege so fast every day, that it takes them a while to process all that stuff, Hops. That's one reason they take so many naps. And why training needs to be consistent. Even the words you use! Hol's 70 lb puppy is the same way - and that is a LOT more chaos inside than us old farts can manage. But Kiri makes up for it by being sweet.
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I agree, Amber. All the puppies I've known have needed loads of sleep and patience and love and time. I'm certainly giving Pup all that...just enjoy writing some hyperbole about how it all feels right now. I'm smitten with him and he's very bright. We're bonding big.
Most of all, he's FUNNY. He doesn't have to try...his little face is all by itself hilarious. He looks like an old Prussian soldier with mutton chops. Then there's the long torso, and a wonderful curled up tail with a white tip. White paws, and a funny off-center white blaze on his head that somehow makes him look like a rocker. Dog parts from outer space all came together to make him something adorable.
We'll be starting puppy class within about a month, there's a great one here.
hugs
Hops
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It is lovely, Hops :) I was up very early this morning and sat in the garden drinking my tea and watching the bats flying around :)
Two interesting things this week; my compulsion to step in and manage other people's feelings for them seems to have left me, and so to has my need to endlessly manage what I say so I don't inadvertently offend anyone. Someone local to us, an older disabled man we've got to know, had a bit of a situation going on. I didn't really have any way I could help out, realistically, and for the first time I didn't put myself in a ridiculous situation of over promising or planning some miraculous rescue. I see it like this... It's not so much new feelings or a new way of being. It's more....things falling off. Falling away. Paring you down to who you truly are, IME. I just said I was sorry it was tough for him (which I am) but that I didn't have anything useful to offer (which was true) and I hoped someone else would be more useful. I should add he wasn't asking for help, simply telling me what was going on but usually that makes me put my rescue hat on. Just didn't happen and I only thought about it afterwards because I think it's the first time the feeling that I needed to manage that for someone else didn't come up.
I believe helping and being helpful is an honorable way to live. When there's no choice ... that's the glitch, IME. The helpful hat you wore was sewn to your head by broken people. Now it sits gently in your kind lap. Available and willing, but now with discernment and choice. Resting.
Two situations this week where usually I would be very careful about what I said, but I wasn't. I wasn't rude and it wasn't an outburst, but again there just wasn't any emotion attached. I just said what I thought, standing up for myself in both cases, and left it there. Haven't spent endless amounts of time mithering over whether I did or said the right thing, or justifying it to myself in my head either. It just was, and that was that. I suspect you've acquired enough distance and perspective to feel what's real, what's threat, what's not....to feel it in your Nervous System and bones. I also suspect you're sure you'll handle whatever comes your way, bc you always have. You always will. That's your truth and there comes a point where the doubt and fear, installed by others, pass away, IME.
And on the back of that, an old friend turned up unexpectedly, I got a call early yesterday to say he'd be driving through later in the day and were we home. Said yes, genuinely pleased to see him, but too many memories of old life. Weed smoke (you can smell it on him), drinking (the smell and the talking about oneself - I hadn't realised before the reason I've spent so much time listening to others wang on is because drunk people just talk with no regard for who else is there) and a realisation that we don't actually have much in common and two hours was more than enough time to catch up. Didn't feel bad about telling him I was wanting to go to bed, told him he was welcome to use the house as he wanted to and then I went off and left him to it. Woke up this morning not feeling at all bad about being a less than gracious host and wanting to get on with the day. I'm glad feeling bad for not perfectly meeting the needs of all others fell away too, Tupp. It leaves room to remember joy, confidence, clarity and, mostly, choice.
Amazing. Keep wondering if this is how some people feel throughout their lives and if that's why it seems so much easier for them. I think there's truth in that thought, Tupp. Hoping it continues. Believe it's permanent. Changes like this are, IME.
Hope pup is doing well! xx
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The pup sounds really lovely, Hops :) They are crazy but I love the way they rush around and then just fall asleep, it's so cute. Fingers crossed your deranged cheerleading tactic is working lol. There's worse things to be in life :)
Thanks, Lighter, I am nodding :) Yes, things falling away. They're all defences of some kind, aren't they, built up around us to keep parts of ourselves safe and then we've had them for so long we don't realise they aren't really part of who we are, they're part of who we had to become. It's like seeing a lot of things for the first time and, yes, just being more realistic about what we can do for others without neglecting ourselves or those closest to us.
I think with regard to potential threats now - I kind of feel well what else can anyone throw at us? We've got through friends and family members leaving/abandoning/ending relationships over simple boundary requests or the word 'no'. We've survived years of lies and falsehood. We've got through two decades of 24 hour care without enough outside help for it to be any real use. We've managed years on a low income, multiple house moves, abusive neighbours and general bigotry. And we're still here. What else can anyone do? I am like a cockroach lol. And with regard to the old friend turning up, my only lesson there, I think, is that I was too casual in my boundaries by allowing him to visit. I should have just said no straight away but didn't really think about it. That's a lesson for next time, but an easy one to remember. All is good :) Hope all is well with you, Lighter xx
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I'm ok, Tupp. Spending Memorial Day weekend at the lake....doing projects. Waiting for original contractor to show, but mostly not show. He stood me up today, in fact. Again.
It's a challenging pleasure to make meals out of what's on hand....frozen white chicken chili this evening. Just me to feed, so zero pressure. My oldest niece is approaching food this way in her new self care regime. Gratitude in honoring ingredients. Nothing processed or wasted.
The weather's nice. It's peaceful, but my ears interpret silence as unpleasant pressure. I don't like it.
Last night I noticed an easy dialogue between me and my younger self. Short, but I recognized it at once.
"Let's brush and floss."
"Ok."
Such a calm moment of ease, safety....trust.
Like... release from a strong current I didn't realize I was swimming in.
If I'm judging, at all, it's more difficult to see what's there. If I'm in fight or flight.... I'm back on the pebble and it's not a question of escaping the pebble completely. Nope. It happens. Happened today, in fact and I let it carry me a good ways into the current, scraping along the pebbles..... understanding it, but leaning in. In that moment, I registered being reactive. I didn't register choice. It's a difficult thing.
There are strategies for escaping rip tides, same as escaping pebbles. Do it enough......
one day....
knowing/responsiveness replaces fear and fight or flight more often than not. But there's still gonna be sticky pebbles, IME.
Escape or things falling away?
Both and neither. Like a stupid trap....we believe we're trapped without understanding the trap never existed anywhere but in our mind, bc we believe.
::uncrossing eyes::.
Sometimes this journey feels like the movie Inception.
What's real?
What's belief?
What's someone else's belief, about us, stuck inside our unconscious beliefs about someone we believe is us, but never was?
Or something we pretended in order to be safe, then forgot it was just pretend.
Anyhoo, trust yourself and stand in your boundaries, ((Tupp.)) Next time you won't need to think about saying No, me'thinks.
Lighter
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I think what's real and what's belief always crosses back and forth. It's picking out when it's helpful and when it isn't that's more difficult, I think.
Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. Do you know, I didn't even consider saying no, we've not had any kind of social visit for over four years now. We see 'professionals' or we see people we go to. No-one comes to us. So it didn't occur to me it might not go well, I'd forgotten how ridiculous some people can be and I realised how comfortable I am with our routine and the way we do things. The mess he left in the bathroom, bits of tobacco on the kitchen table, coffee cup and beer cans left by the sofa, I don't do things like that, my son doesn't do things like that, to my mind no fully grown adult behaves like that. It's left me raging all week, that lack of respect for another person's home, lifestyle, comfort, security. I don't have people like that in my life any more and I'd forgotten that there was a time when everyone I knew was like that. He was an unpleasant reminder. He messaged yesterday, wanting to stay again. I said no, without explanation, he asked why and I ignored him. If he pesters I will use the block function :) No desire to fix, communicate, be nice or interact in any way. I'm just done with all of it xx
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Do you know, after I'd written that I kept thinking about things and I started to wonder if some part of me keeps certain people around in some way because I feel superior to them? if they're inconsiderate, selfish, lazy etc, I can feel better about myself because I'm not those things. Is there something in those connections that I benefit from in an unhealthy way. I kept wondering why I said yes to him coming over the first time and initially I thought it was because it would be nice to have company instead of being on my own. But I like my own company, I don't really enjoy having others around for too long and he'd have had to have had a lobotomy to have undergone any drastic personality changes since I last saw him many years ago. I know enough from other people he's the same now as he always was. So I do wonder if a part of me sees an opportunity to show how much better I am than some of these people. My mum's patterns have made me very vigilent of my own. She creates drama, she can't do nice, normal, easy. Am I the same? Manifests in a different way but are the underlying themes there? Hmmm. From now on people need to be either useful, interesting or funny. Dysfunction needs to be gone, my dysfunction needs to be gone. Other people need to show they are one of those things before the drawbridge goes down. Maybe I should get a pet dragon? Honestly don't know at the moment if I'm having a lot of revelations/insights/understandings, or a breakdown. Perhaps it's the same thing? xx
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Only "raging" stuck out to me, ((((Tupp)))), so it sounds as though his unkempt/inconsiderate reflexes were a trigger of some deeper stuff. As slobby as he sounded, his sins seemed small.
You've had so many invasions of your peace of mind over the years that maybe you feel fierce about it. I do too, have often been very uncomfortable having people in my space recently. Anxious, even. I'm just rawer than I used to be, and I think that will change again. We're not fixed in stone and all our traits can ebb and flow.
Maybe something simple like, "I've realized I'm just not comfortable having people in my space -- set in my ways!" would explain it to him without hurt.
I don't think you're breaking down, I just think your built-in sensors got overloaded by his visit.
hugs,
Hops
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Tupp:
Hops said she's more "raw" but I simply feel less inclined to make nice and pretend all is well when it's not.
Esp with contractors. I silently raged today, sometimes screaming in my head, while helping the original lake contractor re do the bathroom celing tiles.
My sis and I took down the 12"x24" porcelain tiles. I taped off the new shower door, floor, walls and made sure there was padding to protect the glass. I scraped, hammered and otherwise chiseled off the old thinset then handed the tiles to the contractor to put back in. You know... he didn't even check LEVEL once and so we figured out why the old tiles came out. Nothing level.
I'm rambling, but I should have tracked down another contractor, by now, and taken care of this. I NEEEEED to speak plainly and not make nice, all the time, bc that's what I used to do, mindlessly.
Mindfully..... I'm not that nice all the time. I'm not.
::coughing up thinset dust::
I'm poised to be very plain spoken. I think Hops said something about feeling raw.... and maybe it's simuilar to that. I think feeling, honestly, is a bit shocking when one is used to doing doing doing and making nice, out of habit.
Ya.
Hope you guys are dong OK.
I'd like to hear more about how things are going for you and pooch, Hops.
Lighter
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Thanks, Hops. It's the valuelessness of the situation that has nibbled at me, I think. The mess the next day wouldn't have mattered if I'd spent the evening before laughing constantly or having a really interesting conversation, or he'd put up the roller blinds that are sat by the door waiting for me to get the time to do it. It was the overall futility of the interaction, I think, and I'm trying to whittle things down to their bare bones because I want my life to be so different and it still seems to me that it isn't my outward behaviour that's the issue, it's something much deeper inside that is still largely covered (to me, at least), that seems to have only two options - draw and attract arseholes (people, situations, circumstances) or avoid, deflect, hide away. And I don't want either so I'm trying to whittle it all away and figure myself out.
I think that ties in with what you said, Lighter, about making nice out of habit. For decades I unconsciously gave people what they wanted. I issued no demands, I took up no space, I prioritised the needs of others over myself at all times, without even realising it. There was just no me there. And when I started noticing and taking up space most of the people I cared about left, because they didn't have room in their lives for me. I was there to receive and nothing else. People say that's a good thing because you find out who your real friends are, but it doesn't stop it hurting or feeling lonely and rejected. I think what I realised was that when he asked to stop over, I didn't have a reason to say no - but I also didn't have a reason to say yes. He brings nothing to my life, even momentarily. He's boring, unintelligent, he has no interest in other people, he says many things that are subtle put downs and then does the 'I was only asking' or 'It was just a joke' thing when challenged. He smokes, he smells, he just isn't good company. But I didn't think of any of that (will I enjoy his company for the evening?). I just thought, well he's only up the road, one night won't hurt and he's not sleeping in the house so it's okay. So I think the next step for me is 'do I want this in my life' rather than 'is this going to be bad for me?' Because they're not quite the same thing and I think I've been stuck at the refusing bad stuff rather than only allowing good stuff for a long time now.
Your contractor story, Lighter, triggered something in me when you mentioned real fires. I think you're like me, in so much as you assume everyone else will be like you and do the job well, thoroughly and attentively. If you were around a real fire that fire would be safe. You'd take every precaution going, you'd check and monitor it, you'd make sure others were sensible and if it did get out of control, you'd be chucking buckets of water at it until the fire brigade got there. But I think so few people are really like that and I know for me, I've got to the point of checking really small details because it amazes me how so many people miss what seems obvious and necessary. Added to which I think a lot of people just don't think for themselves, they do the bare minimum they can get away with and nothing more. It's hard when you're not like that and I think it catches people out. And you end up covered in dust lol x
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Do you know what occurred to me as I carried on thinking about all of this today? I never, ever, ever ask myself what I need. What I want, yes, I can give you a full blown description of my perfect life right down to the colour of my shoes. What I need to do, yep, I can produce three pages of detailed notes on everything from putting the dishes away to making a million pounds to put away for my son. What my son needs, yes, I can deliver a care plan in 14 minutes flat. But what I need? Basic, ordinary, day to day? Do you need to sleep, Tupp? Rest? Have some fun? Eat, drink water, go for a long walk, drive to the seaside and watch the waves? Phone a friend? A good night out? Some dancing? What do I need? Right now? Dear Lord, can I really have overlooked such a basic thing for so many years? I asked myself and what came to me is sleep, so I went back to bed for two hours. Then water, so I drank some. Now I'm going to have a bath. Really have I missed out the basic in amongst all the drama and angst and naval gazing? Might it actually be that blooming simple?
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I don't see it as naval gazing, Tupp. More.... distraction and distracted, IME.
Asking yourself what you need is a habit or can become habit, me'thinks. I thought about that today as I sweated in the outbuilding heat while looking for things I need to finish the counters....wood distressing tools, industrial fan, respirator, etc.
It was too quiet so aI stopped, asked how I could restore comfort, put on favorite Spotify playlist and danced happily through my tasks.....breezy outside.....enjoying what I could enjoy. It was good.
It was also like exploring a haunted building, bc.....generations of history, including items, photos and once cherished things from my li fe.....my old lives, rather. Childhood. Teens. Single adult life. First marriage. Second. Children and family...I felt a Grandfather's presence and found important things quickly, rather than getting badly side tracked. I kept returning to what I needed and remembering to be mindful of wants, as well.
Remembering....I want to drop judgement. I don't want to feel haunted. I don't want to get mindlessly distracted.
I want to find joy in the present. I want that new default to be set and it be what I'm modeling for my family, bc we're all haunted, if I'm truthful.
So, ya. Your post resonates loudly today, Tupp.
Lighter
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BINGO Tupp!
Yeah, needs get pushed down when "doing" means survival and safety. But it's easy to focus on needs instead of the old stuff, because now you're more settled and safe.
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Thanks, both. Weird, isn't it, how things just drop into place.
My latest self help adventure is the Andrew Bernstein method for managing stress. Apparently has been about for years, I had heard nothing about this :) Very early days and must confess to not understanding how it works yet but am trying the exercises and noticing a big drop in my reactions and responses to things. I am keen to do more! Lol
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Looking forward to hearing more, Tupp.
Lighter
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One little revelatory moment I have noticed (and whether it's because of these stress management techniques or not I don't know - possibly it is) is my endless sense that there is something seriously wrong with me is receding. I have always felt that my failings (as I saw them) in life were down to some deep flaw on my part. My mother couldn't accept me, no-one else came to save me, I haven't been able to maintain friendships, relationships, people ask too much of me, I always end up being the one to do x, y and z when no-one else does, and so on. I've always felt that showed a deep flaw in me that needed to be fixed.
But - an incident happened a few days ago that has made me rethink all of that. One of the neighbours asked for a favour, framed it initially as a small favour and then after I said yes gave me further information and it's actually a big favour and one I would have refused, had I known what it really entailed (it's to do with taking care of pets and was initially presented as a small thing but is actually an extended holiday, several pets, medical issues to take care of and so on).
I've had a few days of why me? why do people do this, why was I deceived, why do I now have to figure out a way of getting out of it, what is it about me that says 'mug'? And so on. But - and this is where the stress management comes in, as it's about turning the problem round and looking at the opposite side of it - I realised it isn't 'me' that attracts this. We're the newest neighbours on the block - she's probably done this to the others so now they all say no and I'm the only one not in the loop. She knows I'm home with my son so fewer excuses for me relating to not being here. She was, in my opinion, quite deliberately manipulative. If I ask someone for a big favour I start with "It's a big favour. Feel free to say no or take time to think it over". And then I'll spell out exactly what I'm asking for. She did the opposite, presented it as a small favour and then once I said yes, drip fed the rest of the information. So this is about her, not me.
That then got me thinking to friendships. I've always felt I couldn't maintain friendships because i don't 'attract' the right sort of people. Again, there is some deep flaw in me that attracts incompatible types. But looking back over many years, I can see that my requirements for friendships changed. At one point anyone that would drink or take drugs with me would do. I straightened myself out from that but still had very low self esteem, so would take any kind of behaviour without complaint. I pulled myself out of that but was still in a lot of situations where I gave a lot and didn't get much back. I put boundaries in place and lost most people then. Then it wasn't just about how I was treated, it was about what I got out of other people, and with some it wasn't much, so I dropped them. And that's what I think has been happening. It's not something wrong with me, it's that my standards kept getting higher. For some reason that hadn't been so clear to me before.
And I think it's across the board, in all situations. My home life has meant very limited opportunities for meeting different kinds of people as we're mostly limited to groups for those who are disadvantaged in some way. They're not right for us. It takes all my energy to manage our own limited situation, I've nothing left over for anyone else's. Again I've felt that there's something wrong with me for not enjoying these groups or finding them the great relief that others seem to. But the truth is most of the chat is local gossip, what's in the news, people talking endlessly about themselves and/or what's on telly, and I've no interest in any of that. Nothing wrong with that. I'm just not with like minded people.
So it's been one of those situations again where a lot has come to light, and it's good. It's funny but years ago something would suddenly make sense and I'd feel euphoric. Now it feels less exciting. Just more along the lines of, "oh. So that's how that bit works". But it's good. Little by little it's all making sense.
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Really good insights, Tupp. Astonishing how perspective changes everything.
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Tupp, you are an insight MACHINE!
I followed everything you said closely and it all made such sense.
Both your awarenesses of how your old reflexes can trip you up, and how your newer identity doesn't cooperate with the over-cooperative "previous Tupp."
What do you plan to CHARGE this woman for the elaborate "favor" she's asked you for?
I loved your awareness that you said "Sure!" too quickly (old Tupp) and now are thinking about how to limit the burden of the task. I hope you find whatever compromise that will help you either: take care of her pets because you love animals anyway, and/OR: take care of yourself by explaining: "I'm sorry, I didn't realize what a job you were asking me to do, and I can't commit to that."
hugs
Hops
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Really good insights, Tupp. Astonishing how perspective changes everything.
Definitely the change in perspective, Lighter, it just takes out the charge behind everything. Still took me a few days to figure it out but practise, right? Slowly but surely :) xx
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Tupp, you are an insight MACHINE!
I followed everything you said closely and it all made such sense.
Both your awarenesses of how your old reflexes can trip you up, and how your newer identity doesn't cooperate with the over-cooperative "previous Tupp."
What do you plan to CHARGE this woman for the elaborate "favor" she's asked you for?
I loved your awareness that you said "Sure!" too quickly (old Tupp) and now are thinking about how to limit the burden of the task. I hope you find whatever compromise that will help you either: take care of her pets because you love animals anyway, and/OR: take care of yourself by explaining: "I'm sorry, I didn't realize what a job you were asking me to do, and I can't commit to that."
hugs
Hops
No charge, Hops, because I'm not doing it, I'll tell her next week. I think the other thing that tripped me up is that my mum used to do this; guilt me into pet sitting for her because it was so expensive to pay for pet sitters/they didn't look after them properly/ they work so hard they deserve a holiday and they can't afford one if they have to pay for pet care etc. This has elements of that in it, how expensive it is to pay for kennels, how busy they are in the holidays so it's hard to find spaces. All of which is true, which is why the cost of the cattery is the first part of any trip away I calculate and i book the cattery space at the same time as I book our accommodation so i know it's all done and costed. They've had this holiday booked for over a year, that's why it didn't occur to me it was this she was talking about as I'd have presumed she'd have had the pet care sorted out ages ago.
What it has drilled into me is that I need to stop assuming everyone thinks the way that I do and check details before I agree to anything, and practise that "I'll need to check and get back to you" phrase. I think she just caught me off guard and my mouth worked quicker than my brain :) Lol. It's no biggy, I just like getting to a point where these things finally make sense to me and I feel like I can adjust myself and do it better next time. I'm aiming for a life with relatively few bumps in the road! Lol x
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I dunno if the sun is shining today in Scotland, Tupp, but I feel the rays and hope it is.
I'm just so tickled by your post, which sounds so calm, unfreaked out, rational and centered. Especially centered. In yourself, not in a tizzy over somebody else's presumption or overreach.
Just you being healthy you, setting a boundary comfortably, taking care of yourself comfortably.
LOVE IT!
hugs
Hops
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I dunno if the sun is shining today in Scotland, Tupp, but I feel the rays and hope it is.
I'm just so tickled by your post, which sounds so calm, unfreaked out, rational and centered. Especially centered. In yourself, not in a tizzy over somebody else's presumption or overreach.
Just you being healthy you, setting a boundary comfortably, taking care of yourself comfortably.
LOVE IT!
hugs
Hops
No sunshine, Hops, it's cold and wet :) It is nice not endlessly questioning myself about what's okay and what isn't. Having that feeling of well, it's not okay for me, and that being the end of it. And looking for ways to avoid the situation again, where possible. Going over to tell her later today. May or may not be a little white lie - I'm not quite at the point of being confident enough to say, sorry, I misunderstood what I was being asked and wouldn't have agreed at the time if I'd realised. That is the next step, I guess. But for now I will be telling her we are unlikely to be here ourselves at that time, which is true. It's not definite but I don't want to be committed to someone else's pets, I do want to not be here if that opportunity comes up (which it might, I'm waiting to hear from someone).
In other news, we had someone come and view the house yesterday. I was feeling very anxious beforehand and thinking should I offer them lunch/drinks/snacks as they had driven a long way. Also worrying about the house itself, was it tidy enough, was the garden neat enough. Then my son, what should I tell him/them, what shall I do about the cat. Long list of questions to myself. Thought about it and realised my social anxiety stems, of course, from my mum, and the endless criticism of everyone and everything, all the time. For me, any kind of interaction with people is an invitation to them to criticise everything about me. So I put on a persona; it's not even about me doing everything 'right', it's about creating someone else to do everything so if there is criticism, it's not me personally being criticised. Even now I'm only just seeing how much damage was done when i was a child.
So - I reminded myself that most people are not like my mum and, if they are, they are not people to listen to or take notice of. The people arrived, I did not offer them anything, I tried not to 'fawn' (I have been reading about this, this people pleasing of being so nice there's no room for a single negative thought from anybody and I do it ALL THE BLOOMIN TIME). So I did none of that, I was polite, showed them around, answered their questions. They are, of course, nice people and there is no need to go into over the top, full on perfection mode because most people don't need or want that and those who do are best avoided.
We are looking to move, as much as we love it here the workload for me on my own is huge and I can't do it. I have exhausted all avenues of support and been told no. I collapsed at the weekend, my back went and I ended up on the floor, unable to move. What kept going through my mind was what would happen if I end up unable to drive/walk/lift/manage stairs, all of which are essential, all of which, for a brief time at the weekend, I couldn't do, and all of which I am doing now but only with the aid of painkillers and gritted teeth. So we do need to be closer to facilities, public transport and more healthcare specialists (very thin on the ground here). Fortunately as we're in local authority housing we can swap with another household which makes it quite cheap to do; the people who visited have a single storey home near a bus route which in turn is near a decent sized town with a reasonable amount going on. So we're waiting to hear if they want to go ahead and if they do, we'll be able to move quite quickly. We'll see what happens. It's a shame but reality is what it is and there's no point pretending otherwise x
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I hope you find the living situation you want, Tupp. I'm feeling similar needs to cut back and maximize health.
Lighter
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I hope you find the living situation you want, Tupp. I'm feeling similar needs to cut back and maximize health.
Lighter
(((((((((((Lighter)))))))))))))) I think whoever we are, however brave and fearless, we are all getting older. My back at the moment is excrutiating and debilitating. I'm managing, but only just. Two degrees more and I'm done for and if that happened where we are right now, I'd be in a right old pickle. So yep, we do need to be closer to facilities and need to be able to get to them by bus. I'd rather do it now, while I can and while I have time to think and chose, rather than be in an emergency situation and have to do whatever was necessary at the time and get stuck there.
The people who viewed have decided no but they put me in touch with someone else who might be interested, so we've swapped details and there are a couple more who've expressed interest as well so there are options :) And we like it here so we're not desperate to go, we just know it needs to happen. You'll figure something out that works for you as well, I'm sure.
I did speak to the neighbour about not being here to have her pets and she was quite frosty and a bit off with me. Did throw me a bit - I haven't quite grown an unaffected skin in that regard. But my focus is me, my boy and our cat (whose holidays are already booked with the cattery so I know I don't have to worry about him). Onwards onwards lol xx
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A pang at your having to leave a home you've enjoyed, and Son too. But a raucous cheer that again, you're centered, calm, rational and ... well, centered in yourself is the best description.
Isn't it ironic that "self-centered" is a classic term for how women are viewed if they take charge of their lives, don't behave submissively, and make their own decisions? I think sometimes, with some personality traits, "selfish" is an extemely appropriate term. But your decisions these days are being guided by your own experience, wisdom, and awareness.
I'm so impressed. Still hope you'll have a bit of garden and happy cat. And that Son has embraced being a bit nomadic and will adjust to his new home when it happens.
hugs
Hops
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I'm liking the phrase "self-focused" - taking care of my own needs, doing what I have to do. Rather than other focused, people-pleasing... accommodating others at my own expense. It's putting oneself first and standing up for that priority.
It doesn't need to be announced or made a big deal of; but I think it's essential to finally assuming our good & proper relationship with ourselves and then our relationships outside ourselves. You're doing quite well in this progress Tupp.
As we're aging, our environmental priorities change. I deliberately bought a place with lots of steps, and of course there is the challenging topography, to at least chalenge myself minimally just doing the day to day. I'm kinda thinking I bit off more than I can chew... here lately. But then, my summer nemisis's - the heat, humidity & bugs - are in full onslaught. The AC in the studio went out and until that was fixed, not even that space was a refuge. I really need a big thunderstorm to blow in a cold front...
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Yes, nodding, nodding, nodding. I think self centred, selfish etc are often used as a way to try to guilt someone into doing something they've no obligation to do. I have struggled a bit (with saying no to the pet care) as my mum's response to that would have been to bad mouth me to anyone who would listen. I have to put that back in it's box; they're different people and even if she does bad mouth me to others, well, it's not part of my life so I need to just let that go. Hang ups from other times is all. It is hard to untangle the hear and now from the past but bottom line is, her pets are not my responsibility (and truthfully I think it's crackers to ask someone else to look after dogs for an extended period of time - I'd be far too worried they wouldn't be looked after properly and would rather a professional do it if I didn't have someone close I knew I could trust). Yadaa yadaa.
I am gutted to be moving away, genuinely thought this was our forever home and it is beautiful, so much space, quiet and potential here. But I spend more time in the car here than I ever did anywhere else and not being able to pop anywhere to do something quickly means having to always be very organised and not being able to put things off until the next day, which I'm finding very tiring. Put my (now very) dodgy back in the mix and the fact that son's only doing about half of what he wants to do and is bored a lot of the time and it's not a good long term situation for us. Have looked into trying to set things up closer to home but the problem then is that others can't get here because we're too far out. So it doesn't work.
The upside is we have more space than we need so can swap with a family who have less space. The thought of little ones getting their own rooms for the first time or having a big garden to run and play in is nice. We'll still want a garden but a small one will do us. Again, I've been overwhelmed by all the gardening and don't have the time (or back strength!) to keep on top of it. So somewhere smaller, more urban, better transport links and so on, yep, those boxes will be good to tick.
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Tupp...re fawning ... I'm so with you on noticing and catching it.... stopping that reaction ....replacing with responsiveness.
For a while, I was aggressively opposite and lacking chill/balance/choice.
I slid out of that, but always strive for emotional distance providing the headspace required to BE chill/balanced and to restore choice.
I can want something and focus on failure OR relax and mind my mental health/coping strategies/good habits I've worked towards and notice.....
it feels they're taking up space where old habits/stress/anxiety/fawning used to live.
That makes sense to me right now.
Thanks reminds me of the saying...
"If one tak s care of the pennies, the dollars
take care of themselves."
Not worrying into the future means I notice my internal world, catch and deal with normally upsetting things to get back to being present (with greater ease and frequency.)
Sometimes chill IS my default, but not perfectly and that's ok too.
Things dropping away......things getting crowded out.....mindfully choosing and discerning while reminding myself it's my job.....helps.
About getting bait and switched into caring for dogs (esp while you're suffering with back pain.) WTH? That lady was likely desperate. I know the feeling, BUT I don't consider wrong/bad/impossible options.
She needs to work her problem till she finds a solution....
Trading out dog sitting with someone in similar position or having a traveling pet sitting company send someone cheap who wants to vacation there or have someone in who's property is being shown daily (like we did) or maybe consider she has to save a while longer to afford her her trip. Plopping all that in your unsuspecting lap wasn't feasible. She can be as chilly as she likes. I'm super cool with the word NO.....now. I wasn't, but it's on the tip of my tongue, often now.
It's ditching the old scrips and leaning into what's real.... remembering who we are that brings the ease, IME.
Dropping the buy into other people's negative narratives about us gets easier...becomes obvious....inhabits spaces in our knowing, IME.
If you haven't seen the book Pain Free by Egoscue Clinic, consider ordering used. I have copies everywhere. Spent lots of time on my back, knees on a box, treating lower back troubles. My friends do the same!
In the meantime....
Here's to minding our own business....caring for ourselves and what's ours to tend, sans shame or guilt.
It's ok.....even if it doesn't feeeeel ok.... it's still ok.
Good luck working your housing program to the be est possible outcome, ((Tupp.))
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Tupp...re fawning ... I'm so with you on noticing and catching it.... stopping that reaction ....replacing with responsiveness.
For a while, I was aggressively opposite and lacking chill/balance/choice.
I slid out of that, but always strive for emotional distance providing the headspace required to BE chill/balanced and to restore choice.
I can want something and focus on failure OR relax and mind my mental health/coping strategies/good habits I've worked towards and notice.....
it feels they're taking up space where old habits/stress/anxiety/fawning used to live.
That makes sense to me right now.
Thanks reminds me of the saying...
"If one tak s care of the pennies, the dollars
take care of themselves."
Not worrying into the future means I notice my internal world, catch and deal with normally upsetting things to get back to being present (with greater ease and frequency.)
Sometimes chill IS my default, but not perfectly and that's ok too.
Things dropping away......things getting crowded out.....mindfully choosing and discerning while reminding myself it's my job.....helps.
About getting bait and switched into caring for dogs (esp while you're suffering with back pain.) WTH? That lady was likely desperate. I know the feeling, BUT I don't consider wrong/bad/impossible options.
She needs to work her problem till she finds a solution....
Trading out dog sitting with someone in similar position or having a traveling pet sitting company send someone cheap who wants to vacation there or have someone in who's property is being shown daily (like we did) or maybe consider she has to save a while longer to afford her her trip. Plopping all that in your unsuspecting lap wasn't feasible. She can be as chilly as she likes. I'm super cool with the word NO.....now. I wasn't, but it's on the tip of my tongue, often now.
It's ditching the old scrips and leaning into what's real.... remembering who we are that brings the ease, IME.
Dropping the buy into other people's negative narratives about us gets easier...becomes obvious....inhabits spaces in our knowing, IME.
If you haven't seen the book Pain Free by Egoscue Clinic, consider ordering used. I have copies everywhere. Spent lots of time on my back, knees on a box, treating lower back troubles. My friends do the same!
In the meantime....
Here's to minding our own business....caring for ourselves and what's ours to tend, sans shame or guilt.
It's ok.....even if it doesn't feeeeel ok.... it's still ok.
Good luck working your housing program to the be est possible outcome, ((Tupp.))
I will look out that book, Lighter, thank you. It is sooo painful and I don't like/want to be on lots of pain meds. I've had to take some to get through the week but I'd rather find ways of making it begone so will look for that book, thank you.
Re the fawning, I didn't even realise I did that until I read about it. It's difficult isn't it, there's a fine line between smiling and nodding in an unimportant situation just to get out of it quickly (talking to someone in line at a store, for example), there's times you might be at someone else's house for a get together so you bite your tongue and just yep and uhuh to avoid a scene - and then there's times when you trip over yourself to make someone else feel comfortable when there's really no need to and that's what I realised I do a lot. I can't imagine how much time i've wasted over the years listening to people drone on when I didn't need to.
I don't know what her deal is with the pet sitting, it's very odd. Their holiday's been booked for two years (she's talked about it loads), it's costing a fortune (she's told me repeatedly) so why she's waited until now to sort out animal care or why she thought of asking me I just don't know. But I keep saying to myself, I don't mind doing someone a favour but I'm not responsible for other people's pets (or kids, homes, gardens, health or anything else).
Yes to minding our own business and letting other people mind theirs :)
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My dodgy back sends solidarity, Tupp.
I'm gutted for you too.
On the other hand, this is an opportunity to really take the time you need to choose your next, and hopefully forever, home. All those aging things in mind: I pretend it's not real but know it is. One level is easier (though stairs do keep legs strong). A bit of green feeds the soul (and cat's). Noise matters if you're sensitive to it. A bus stop very close keeps you active. Activities for both of you do the same. Shops, doctors, community.
When I first moved from country to town after my divorce I thought it'd break my heart. Then I discovered the lovely indoor public swimming pool a block from my door, the sweet old woman right next door, little kids riding bikes, friendly couple down the street who loved a check-in chat on a walk, etc. I realized after years outside town that I had been very lonely in that lovely place.
You know it all, I'm just a knowitall. LOL.
Will be riding in the back seat in spirit to cheer you on!
hugs
Hops
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My dodgy back sends solidarity, Tupp.
I'm gutted for you too.
On the other hand, this is an opportunity to really take the time you need to choose your next, and hopefully forever, home. All those aging things in mind: I pretend it's not real but know it is. One level is easier (though stairs do keep legs strong). A bit of green feeds the soul (and cat's). Noise matters if you're sensitive to it. A bus stop very close keeps you active. Activities for both of you do the same. Shops, doctors, community.
When I first moved from country to town after my divorce I thought it'd break my heart. Then I discovered the lovely indoor public swimming pool a block from my door, the sweet old woman right next door, little kids riding bikes, friendly couple down the street who loved a check-in chat on a walk, etc. I realized after years outside town that I had been very lonely in that lovely place.
You know it all, I'm just a knowitall. LOL.
Will be riding in the back seat in spirit to cheer you on!
hugs
Hops
Lol thanks Hops, yes, all of those things are what I want. One level I might not get as they tend to reserve that for older/disabled but all the other things are on my checklist. The area I particularly have my eye on is a group of 3 relatively small towns fairly close by one another, good transport links, plenty going on in each town but none of them are particularly hectic or high crime sort of areas. So should be possible to find fairly quiet but still within easy reach of stuff. What I'd really like is enough activity for son that as he outgrows things and/or gets bored of them, there's other stuff for him to do. Disability provision is so limited, it's mind blowing really that there's so little available and so much of it is the same. I genuinely have more choice over where to board the cat than I do of places for son to socialise which is shocking. So if I can find somewhere with enough sets of different things happening that he can pick and chose a bit, and dip in and out when he wants to, that would be really good. Definitely need public transport; I'm driving but even short distances are really painful and getting in and out of the car is hard. I'm hoping my back won't stay like this - it is improving - but I know it could become permanent and that is a worry. We'll see what comes up. I would like to get going before winter sets in again but much of it is out of my hands so we'll just have to wait and see :) I have started packing, though :) Lol
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Had another incident similar to the 'will you look after my pets' one so am now thinking about my own behaviour and what it is I do that brings this out in other people. It's not being asked a favour that I mind, it's the sort of sneaky round about way it's happening and the time it's taking me to extricate myself from it. Yesterday I had two missed calls and a text message from someone, I messaged back and said I'd have time to talk tomorrow (today now) and I'd call them then, got another message that suggested it was urgent so I rang. It wasn't urgent, she could have looked it up for herself in less time than it took her to keep contacting me, it could have been put off until we meet in person at the weekend. She also wanted directions for where we're meeting, went through it with her three times and she still wasn't sure, couldn't explain it any clearer, for some reason she doesn't use map or sat nav.
I think I get anxious at the thought of not doing what someone else wants (ie picking up the phone, answering the door, agreeing to things before I know what's wanted). But I seem to attract people who have that kind of neediness about them. They will react if they don't get what they want when they want, whereas there are other people I know who, if I said I was busy today and I'll call them tomorrow they'd say no problem and it wouldn't concern me. So I need to work out how to swich off the radar that I seem to send out that draws those sort of people in.
I think part of it with me is that I don't select people, I wait for them to select me (you're not an apple waiting to be picked, Lighter! I always think of that lol). I find rejection hard, even a soft rejection of a phone call not being returned or a text reply three weeks after a message was sent. I also feel I don't have anything to offer people so I don't feel up to inviting someone round for coffee and then, truthfully, being embarrassed by my life and the way I live. Hmm, hadn't realised that before. That's quite a big one. I suppose essentially I don't feel I'm on the same level as the kind of people I'd like to spend time with. But the neediness in me attracts the ones who then lead me to sitting here writing about angst online :) Lol. So I guess I need to be less needy? And level up more so that I feel I can say to someone, come round for a coffee and not be embarrassed. Okay. I'm thinking out loud. Time to dial down my own neediness, I think.
I think I need to work on my own routine as well. The conversation with her really drained me, it threw my evening routine out and I ended up not doing what I wanted to get done and went to bed in a mood. Haven't slept well so the disruption has carried on into today and this is all because I couldn't just ignore my phone or say no, I've no time today. Need to make my routine more robust so I don't get derailed as well, I think.
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All that resonating with me, Tupp.
AND I'm dealing with a sort of rejection in that ...the couple with the baby cleaning crew decided not to take us on....and I think it's about the Resident Evil Angel art piece in the master bedroom.
Note to self .....always say it's an angel if protection!!! The husband was covered in Christian tattoos and clothing. They turned down a $550 cleaning fee. I'm feeling shaken and gut punched, truthfully.
On the other hand, something right will eventually be arranged. I feel that too.
Old pathways converging with newly cultivated pathways, I guess.
I'll mindfully focus on solutions and assuming this is for the best.
Hmmmm. I immediately feel better.
Wow.
Reminds me of the saying...
"What you fear will find you."
About your internal review....
Nonjudgmental observer mode is a productive balm, IME.
Lightrr
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Tupp, as ever your deep honesty with yourself amazes me. Here it is:
...essentially I don't feel I'm on the same level as the kind of people I'd like to spend time with
You're hardly alone in this, as probably every other house on every street contains someone who's getting yanked by insecure feelings all through their lives that are exactly the same. Shame triggers, low self-respect, trauma-reaction patterns, all of that. I've had calamitous times, short or long, because of them. A LOT less with age.
Self-esteem gets written about in such treacly ways. But I believe what's at the heart of all those strenuous efforts to teach people positive affirmations, meditations on self-compassion, vulnerability, etc. is truth that does heal people and change their interactions with others and ultimately their lives. Imo.
I think you're brilliant the way you think things and feelings all the way through. Really astonishingly open and intelligent. Not dismissing how you feel, but not avoiding a deeper dive that can give you inner space to ask questions without fear.
It is SO impressive to me.
hugs
Hops
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All that resonating with me, Tupp.
AND I'm dealing with a sort of rejection in that ...the couple with the baby cleaning crew decided not to take us on....and I think it's about the Resident Evil Angel art piece in the master bedroom.
Note to self .....always say it's an angel if protection!!! The husband was covered in Christian tattoos and clothing. They turned down a $550 cleaning fee. I'm feeling shaken and gut punched, truthfully.
On the other hand, something right will eventually be arranged. I feel that too.
Old pathways converging with newly cultivated pathways, I guess.
I'll mindfully focus on solutions and assuming this is for the best.
Hmmmm. I immediately feel better.
Wow.
Reminds me of the saying...
"What you fear will find you."
About your internal review....
Nonjudgmental observer mode is a productive balm, IME.
Lightrr
Oh wow, Lighter, well yes, it hits us all in different ways! But like you say, it paves the way for someone better/different/better suited to your situation (angels or no angels!). People can be funny. Non judgemental observer is helping me so much right now. Back is feeling better, too - not great, but can move more easily and I'm not waking myself up every time I roll over. Fingers crossed the right people come along for you soon enough.
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Tupp, as ever your deep honesty with yourself amazes me. Here it is:
...essentially I don't feel I'm on the same level as the kind of people I'd like to spend time with
You're hardly alone in this, as probably every other house on every street contains someone who's getting yanked by insecure feelings all through their lives that are exactly the same. Shame triggers, low self-respect, trauma-reaction patterns, all of that. I've had calamitous times, short or long, because of them. A LOT less with age.
Self-esteem gets written about in such treacly ways. But I believe what's at the heart of all those strenuous efforts to teach people positive affirmations, meditations on self-compassion, vulnerability, etc. is truth that does heal people and change their interactions with others and ultimately their lives. Imo.
I think you're brilliant the way you think things and feelings all the way through. Really astonishingly open and intelligent. Not dismissing how you feel, but not avoiding a deeper dive that can give you inner space to ask questions without fear.
It is SO impressive to me.
hugs
Hops
Thanks, Hopsie. Do you know, today was so different. I made a list, kept my phone switched off, didn't check any messages on my laptop and got everything done without any interruptions and without any anxiety. Checked messages after dinner, got back to a couple of people, sent a couple of emails and switched it all off again. So I got everything done without getting in a flap and the funny thing I realised is, it's feeling anxious that makes me start flicking through my phone and checking my emails, and then I get more anxious because I'm not getting enough done and I can't concentrate because I'm doing too many things at the same time. How silly is that, that I feed my anxiety by doing things that make me feel more anxious. Bonkers. And on top of that, because I got some useful things done at home and finished reading my book, I now have two things I can mention if someone says 'what have you been up to', instead of my usual blind panic of feeling I've done nothing worth mentioning. Mad how something as small as a change in routine can change your headspace as well.
I would love my self esteem to be healthier. I know no-one feels incredible all the time and everyone has periods of self doubt (apart from personality disorder type people but that's a whole other thing :) ) but it would be nice to feel there is a bit of substance to me again. Hopefully little changes lead to bigger ones xx
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You know, Tupp....it hit me last night.
What if...
I/certain others
hold an unconscious belief around
self care = doing for others?
I honestly get an endorphin surge when I do for others, think about it, plan it.....it occurred to me to do for others
after l was on the road 4 hours,
trapped in a truck stuffed with stinking trash after cleaning the lake house for 13 hours on top little sleep....running up stairs and down stairs.....many many very many many stairs....
Occurred to me that doing for others, in a time of intense fatigue/frustration/disappointment/problemwith housekeeping....to do for others, rather than self and I was focusing on self care!!
I realized....
part of my self care ritual is doing for others😬😵💫😵
Others.
Not myself.
Holy guacamole, Tupp.
I found myself
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You know, Tupp....it hit me last night.
What if...
I/certain others
hold an unconscious belief around
self care = doing for others?
I honestly get an endorphin surge when I do for others, think about it, plan it.....it occurred to me to do for others
after l was on the road 4 hours,
trapped in a truck stuffed with stinking trash after cleaning the lake house for 13 hours on top little sleep....running up stairs and down stairs.....many many very many many stairs....
Occurred to me that doing for others, in a time of intense fatigue/frustration/disappointment/problemwith housekeeping....to do for others, rather than self and I was focusing on self care!!
I realized....
part of my self care ritual is doing for others😬😵💫😵
Others.
Not myself.
Holy guacamole, Tupp.
I found myself
Yep, I definitely think doing for others can do really good things for ourselves. I guess, as with everything, it's balance and whether what we do is appreciated, reciprocated - needed? I think I can tip into enabling without noticing sometimes, and doing things for people that they could do for themselves. Much less than I used to but even so, it can be a hard line to tread. Doing really fun stuff for people can be great - organising a party or wedding entertainment, helping decorate a house for a homecoming, that sort of thing. And doing helpful things when people really need it - yes, definitely. I suppose it's the difference between that and being someone's emotional dumping ground, or endlessly cleaning up their mess (of any kind), or trying to save them and so on. I guess it's all keeping a balance and keeping an eye on ourselves.
Funnily enough, I was thinking to myself today that I'm wondering if I need to limit my human interaction to half an hour at a time and see if that helps, because I just find myself feeling too tired after I'm with people to do anything else. We did our early morning swim this morning which is very sociable and I do like seeing the other people there, but the chit chat was, I think, enough for the day. But my son had a get together today and after catching up with everyone that was there one of the mums came back to mine for coffee. We chatted for a while, then went back to collect our respective sons, chatted with everyone again before saying bye, and then had a long chat with a friend on the phone. It's all been nice, friendly, amiable, no drama or unpleasantness, but I' m so tired now I'm struggling to even think about doing my evening routine. Even watching a film feels like too much, I put my book down because I couldn't concentrate. Something to ponder xx
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Sometimes time goes by in chunks. Not linear at all. And.... it's too easy. No. It's how things have always been to feel swamped and overwhelmed, but that's changing.
Maybe it's already changed.
To stop and notice. Discern and choose. Right from wrong. Good from bad. Worthy from the rest. To let go of what's not important enough....to me.
To discern important enough....for me.
Nothing is wasted.
I am where I'm supposed to be.
To believe I'm home, inside myself, and live that truth.....while discerning and choosing and being so very kind to myself.....
kind to my family without being dishonest or disingenuous.
Empathetic truth......sans judgement feels like sunshine and "the way" just now.
Putting down responsibilities for other's feelings.....
Picking up self care.....not to model it, but bc it's a job. It's my job. I don't need a reason or permission or the right time or feelings about it.
It's just ok. Just as it is. And breathing is what I do.....to break the patterns and find the form of what I'm creating....
instead of what I've had/done/been.
I can be free, creative, joyful....and I'm not seeking out social interactions. I'm not lonely. I'm exhausted by very little socializing. I get that too, Tupp. There's only so much time,attention, care and energy to give. It's limited and limiting. Know thy limits. Honor them. Choose wisely. Again and again.
Back to breath, discernment, empathic honesty and radical acceptance....
releasing outcome.....
saying NO.....
holding boundaries I've set, sans regret.
It's a lot. It's different to live with choices and return to choice when it slips away. It comes back again. I can bring it back. Choose it. Again and again.
What's important...? What deserves attention?
Learning to put things down if they're not important.
...esp if I'm carrying them, have been carrying them....intended to carry them mindlessly....felt compelled or obligated or right carrying them.
It's a sea change.
It's learning not to focus.....on the obvious....on the default settings when fearing them and denying them make them stronger.
When reactivity resolves....drops away or is just a blip then retreats.....
that's the stuff.
Lighter
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Introversion is a normal and natural way of being. Often mischaracterized, but comes a time one stops trying to fit one's unique square peg into a round hole.
Good for you for noticing the drain and thinking about ways to manage it for your wellbeing.
hugs
Hops
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Hopsie, yes, I think that's very true. I think I still need to focus on and prioritise what I need/want to do before I start thinking about socialising or interacting too much with people. There are things that don't seem like much - the mum who came back for coffee was here 45 minutes? No more than that. But I know I'd have felt better in myself if I'd come home and spent that time tidying up and getting the evening meal ready. Instead of getting home and feeling behind, then spending all afternoon on the phone by which time the day was a write off and nothing else got done. It does affect me, I just think I do better when I stick to my own routine and everything in my little world is as I like it to be. It's not reflection of other people being wrong, in some way - too much, too demanding, anything like that. I think I just need more quiet and down time. And to remind myself of that throughout the day.
Lighter, yes, nodding all the way through. I find that, because I've had to do so much on my own over the years, I'm quite capable in a lot of different situations, much like you are. Then also having a child who doesn't fit any of the pigeon holes available and home educating him which again is very different to the school system and I feel I've got quite a wide range of experience in different areas and an ability to cope, because I've had to. I think, therefore, that I find being around people who don't cope with a wide range of things, very tiring. I do seem to know a lot of women whose husbands are quite childlike, in the sense they don't deal with their own problems, they don't think of others very much, they couldn't just take charge for a week and deal with the kids/house/pets and so on. So the long talk I had with a friend yesterday was tiring because for some reason I can't seem to listen to someone else's situation without being affected by it. She wasn't complaining or criticising, she was just talking through what's been going on in her life. But as I listen I can see how selfish and self absorbed her husband is and how accepting she is of that (it doesn't even register with her that there's so much more he could be doing but he leaves her to get on with it despite the fact she's ill, and expects her to prioritise what he wants over what she needs). I can see it as she's talking; so many ways her situation could be improved if her family members did more. Not that she even wants them to. So she's not asking for suggestions or thoughts, I don't say or suggest anything, it's different people in different situations and not my business. But it still leaves me feeling exhausted. I'm going to have to ponder that some more as I'm not quite sure how best to manage it. It's definitely my issue rather than someone else's xx
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You care deeply, Tupp. You want your friend to suffer less, bc you're kind and can see how easily the h could manage it, if he cared to. Apparently, he doesn't OR friend can't/hasn't articulated well enough/at all.
I didn't know how to ask for help or speak about difficult needs, once upon a time. It's learned, in my case. Likely hers too? Not sure. Not yours to solve. Not mine.l, though I like to understand what I can.
Your friend gets something out of her situation, perhaps...unfortunately, IME. I don't think she can see how her situation could change...not with any clarity, bc of her beliefs around her situation.
And if she could see it....all the ways you see. If she began making changes....I imagine her new choices would bring some energy to your interactions. Reminds me of Hops and her Poet friend, a bit.
Reminds me of Cowgirl, next door, who wants to "chat" over wine.
Ummm....no thank you. I listened for a while, but there's nothing there for me and that's ok. If you're getting something out of the time spent with this friend.....sans expectations she'll change.....find ways to spend time more joyfully or maybe spend less time.
I wonder at the ease I used to be cornered into listening to situations, like the one you're dealing with. It's easy to just state I have to go, then go. And I do.
I think part of the angst is feeling the need to help or at least impart som help before stepping out. A phrase that sticks or jars the listener out of their default settings just a bit.
That's dropped away too, mostly. The saying "we are where we want to be" makes sense now, bc I can glimpse my own unconscious beliefs and how intractable they "felt" when really I was in my own way.
I understood it, but couldn't identify the mechanics or solutions, even when people who care pointed them out.
I guess getting sick of feeling sick of being where one doesn't belong is part of learning to see around mental corners, finally, and assessing what's truly there. If one can stomach it or not.
You're very nice and simply saying no to coffee or listening to a friend's suffering feeeels wrong, bad, upsetting....like your physical energy is loose and easily pierced by others....affected.
I think I pulled mine in, very tight and tucked against myself.... it's not easily pierced or affected....not like it was. I haven't thought about it in a while, but I remember doing it.
Not just anyone can get at it, like they used to. It's one thing to say..." let me know how that works out for you," while biting back dread and advice.
It's another to feel it and not say it.....not even feel the need to say it, IME.
I can listen to friends upsetting situations, give my opinion if they ask and reassure, but it doesn't get in like it used to, bc I manage to stay outside their suffering. I don't go down their rabbit hole either them anymore, at least I usually have a choice, now.
And there's the responsiveness vs draining reactivity.....managing to stay above their emotions and not feel them too....I think.
A couple years ago, or so, I just couldn't sit and take listening to faffing...lost my chill.....blurted out truths.....("Your need to be right all the time is so tedious")and that was a mixed bag. One friend dropped away and it was for the best, imo. Did he benefit? I don't much need to know. It's ok if he didn't.
Some people in my life learned to think before speaking. That was better, for the largest part. People learning to be more mindful, even if it's a by product of my setting boundaries and not the goal, is good, IME.
People can judge and feel victimized and go away OR begin looking at their part, looking at mine.....sussing out the history and noticing other choices between us.
Accepting coffee with your friend/s drains you might just be what it is, if all things remain the same. Attempting to change the dynamics, insert energy and joy is a possibility likely requiring more energy until it gets better, IME.
I kept my Moss friend, bc we share lovely interests and recognize similar vulnerability and overdoing for others ...in each other.
Lastly, discerning between allowing intuition and "feeling right" to lead.....most of the time.....
but hushing it when self care/boundaries and new habits are involved in a new trick I'm mindful of.
Lighter
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Yes, yes and yes. I'm not sure why I keep repeating the same thing myself. I'm aware that I need to connect much more deeply with my own self and my own situation. I'm in my head a lot of the time and I look for things to distract me - things online, scenarios with other people, other people's problems. When I should focus my time and energy on me. But - I also know that deep down I'm very sad, very lonely and very scared. I worry about my tendency to depression and that connecting too deeply with my real feelings will take me into a place that I find very difficult to get out of again. But at the same time I feel it's what I need to do, to move forward. To be more real, and attract more people into my life who are authentic about their feelings, straight talkers, relationship sorters and generally people who, if they do talk about difficulty in life, are talking about it in order to figure out a way forward, rather than just talking for the sake of talking. I kind of know what I need to do but at the same time pull myself back from doing it.
I read a book years ago, The Continuum Concept? Do you know it? Long time ago now, it's about the way in which traditional tribal groups live communally and, as a result, are much healthier and happier than we are in our separate boxes having to travel miles to see our friends and loved ones. One of the things she talks about in there (I think she was /is a psychologist?) is how the humdrum jobs are far less boring and tedious when done as part of a group. The women would work together all day, getting the boring but necessary jobs out of the way together and talking and laughing as they did so. That's part of the problem I have, I think. I have to separate socialising from getting things done. I'd be much happier sitting and talking to someone if everything I needed to do was done, but when I know I'm just creating more work for myself by not getting on with it it frustrates me. Hmmm. Need to think about that some more.
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When you're the only person doing things, it IS more important that you get things done than socializing. I think that's something drilled into me, and with Buck & Hol taking over some things... all I'm left with is socializing and it's not that nutritious for me. Feels empty, ya know?
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When you're the only person doing things, it IS more important that you get things done than socializing. I think that's something drilled into me, and with Buck & Hol taking over some things... all I'm left with is socializing and it's not that nutritious for me. Feels empty, ya know?
Skep, you are a genius. The last 25 years that I've been battling depression, anxiety, stress, exhaustion and all other unpleasant things, the advice from doctors, therapists, self help books, every article you ever read online and everything else is all about socialising, getting out and about, self care, me time and all the rest of it. But do you know what, that's never worked for me, and it's because of what you've said. I'm the only one doing the work, so it is more important to get that done. That's exactly it. That's the self care, much like Lighter saying her self care is figuring things out for other people. Sitting listening to people gossip, talk about celebrities, moan about their husbands, does nothing for me. But getting everything done so that life is calm, orderly, has a few treats built into it and I don't wake up stressed in the morning and having to rush about - that's what works. Why did I not see this before? You've hit all the nails on all the heads lol.
With that in mind, I woke up early yesterday, as I often do, and instead of faffing about not sure whether to do yoga, try to get back to sleep, get some paperwork done, sit and read, and generally waste a couple of hours not making a decision (which is what I normally do), by 7.30am I'd done an hour in the garden, the washing was out on the line, the evening meal was prepared and I was sitting down to breakfast with my son. Carried on in that busy way all day and didn't think about self care or socialising. Did some yoga in the afternoon, went for a swim in the outdoor pool in the evening (and enjoyed the chit chat with the ladies there) and in between, did some sewing for the first time in I don't know how long. I think I've always been looking for some sort of existential shift to occur, to make things better? But really it's just about getting on with what needs doing, isn't it? Wow. Content and the house is tidy :) Lol x
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I'm so glad I read this exchange today.
Thank you, both!
I will read it again. And again.
hugs
Hops
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I dunno about genius. I have lived a pretty challenging life, learned things the hard way, got back up, dusted off and kept putting one foot in front of the other. I think about things... from way outside the maelstrom where it's quiet. LOL. And Hol & I talk a LOT about things. She's been doing another inner work growth spurt I think. But it's not always easy or pretty. And she helps keep me moving.
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Amber:
You're right.....
"feels less nutritious" is real.
Tupp, it IS community and fellowship in daily life, in part, missing.
I noticed it as a young first time wife...the absence of Grandparents and parents and children engaged in meal prep and cleaning headstones and farming together. That's Young Lighter's "home." That was her first life experience and it went away age 7yo.
My youngest talks about the suburban dessert and I never understood but Ive contemplated moving over her comments many times.
Hops, I'm with you and reading this through again and again.
I think I've been attempting to BE the family my children don't have. I didn't understand it. I felt it.
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I think that's the difference between lived experience and taught experience though, Skep. Practical reality instead of ideology. In theory socialising is a good idea (as you say, Lighter, we don't have the sense of community and connectedness that we used to). But when it causes stress because you've got a load of unfinished jobs at home (or anywhere else) - nope, not going to work.
The other thing I've realised as I've been thinking about all of this is that I don't really have, or meet, people in my real life who inspire me. Who live a life I want or crave. I do get that online, you guys inspire me, there's a couple of off grid forums that I read and I love reading about people fixing up their own power and stocking up for the winter. Couple of people I follow on social media who do things I enjoy (and don't get to do myself). But in real life - truth be told, most people I connect with in reality are kind of needy in some way. They're not great problem solvers, they've no real desire to do much other than book a holiday once a year (and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, it's just not for me) and most of them interspace our conversations with subtle put downs and actually raise my anxiety levels with their frequent 'what if' questions. And I've only really noticed all of that properly over the last few days. There's a big difference between the people I interact with online and the people I interact with in real life. And I think that's down to me only showing my real self online, where it's safe and I can have complete control over the situation. Mmm. Think that's going to have to be my next project. Interacting with humans in real way. Eek! Lol
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Tupp: What you said about engaging in daily chores, as a happy community, talking/laughing/sharing makes so much sense regarding more joy, more time, more fellowship and less anxiety/loneliness and lack of time.
My very best friend helps me do big projects and I've always helped her with big projects. It's understood and joyful. Esp when the work's done and we're cooking,creating and cleaning together. Enjoying the season...fires it Halloween House build, etc.
I like to work. I like being busy. I like working with others. Just socializing makes me feel uncomfortable and stressed. Everyone helping makes the work light 🚨 r at least lighter.....makes time and space to relax, kwim?
Working together......getting projects started, moved along and finished WITH others includes a deeper relationship and common understanding of priorities, IME.
Friends feed us and we feed them, IME. In many ways....."nutritional" (I like that term, Amber)interactions means different things to different people.
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Tupp: What you said about engaging in daily chores, as a happy community, talking/laughing/sharing makes so much sense regarding more joy, more time, more fellowship and less anxiety/loneliness and lack of time.
My very best friend helps me do big projects and I've always helped her with big projects. It's understood and joyful. Esp when the work's done and we're cooking,creating and cleaning together. Enjoying the season...fires it Halloween House build, etc.
I like to work. I like being busy. I like working with others. Just socializing makes me feel uncomfortable and stressed. Everyone helping makes the work light 🚨 r at least lighter.....makes time and space to relax, kwim?
Working together......getting projects started, moved along and finished WITH others includes a deeper relationship and common understanding of priorities, IME.
Friends feed us and we feed them, IME. In many ways....."nutritional" (I like that term, Amber)interactions means different things to different people.
Yep, I think all of that is right. I think where I'm noticing a change in me is the difference between friends who want to talk to find solutions, move forward, or even just to vent if there's nothing that can be done - and people who I think just like to talk about themselves with no real desire to do anything. It's the lack of doing that I think is just not me. Obviously there are times nothing can be done but in the situations where change could happen in some small way - I find the endless quest to avoid doing anything exhausting.
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I've been trying to really 'tune in' to myself. Quiet, no thinking, no aiming to feel a certain way, but trying to connect with myself and pick up the feeling that's already there. What keeps coming up is fear. Deep seated, deeply embedded and, I suspect, hard wired into me from a very, very young age and at the root of everything.
I keep seeing two different versions of myself in my head. An unhappy, lonely, middle aged woman, slowly giving in to her health problems and battles against the system/injustice/fixing the lack in her life. Sitting on a couch, eating biscuits, watching television, 'accepting' it is the way it is. Appreciating the small things that do make her feel happy and content but slowly giving up the hopes and dreams she's had since childhood. Getting consumed by it all and eventually just giving in.
The other version, truthfully, is a bit of an old hippy. Loving life, fit and healthy, wearing crazy clothes, loving time with friends, travelling, growing a garden, reading, learning, laughing. I rarely laugh any more, it's true, I'm rarely in situations that are funny and when I do laugh it's usually because my son says something funny.
Of the two, the happy hippy is the one I want, no question. It's a no brainer, I think most people would pick happy over not. But my habits, choices, decisions often lead me to the sitting lonely on a couch version and that's what I've been trying to figure out. I change the way I do things every few days, always thinking this time, I'll get on top of the unhelpful habits and do more of the good stuff. And if always works for a few days, but then I drift back to the old, unhelpful ways (or at least, they're not helping me become happier or break out of the path I seem to be on just now). And I think it's fear that does it. The unhappy version has grown from fear and i feel like she's as reluctant to let me be myself as my mum always was. It's like I've created another version of my mother to keep in my life and it's as scary breaking free from her as it was getting away from my mum.
So fear is what I'm working on at the minute, but very deep seated fear. What I've noticed about myself recently is that when i wake up in the morning, I'm usually busy straight away. I immediately start doing something, whether it's a helpful thing or not is a different issue. But the last few days I've woken up and just lain there, doing nothing but asking myself how do I feel? And I work through which bits ache and the fact I feel tired and the feeling of overwhelm that's always there. But underneath what comes up is fear. I feel frightened. And then I think I spend a lot of mental energy creating anxiety inducing scenarios in my head, without realising I'm doing it - problems, arguments, need to do lists, what people are thinking/saying/doing about me. I think it takes me away from the underlying feeling of fear and focuses me on something else. It's interesting but i think my sister and I do the same thing in different ways. Her external life is chaos - house, car, money, relationships etc - but she's pretty calm in her own mind. My external life is very orderly day to day but my head and my overall feelings about my life are frantic. Funny, isn't it? I think I don't stick to a change in habits because it works. And that makes taking away the fear managing framework, and that's when it feels like Mrs Stay At Home On The Couch starts to panic and starts shoving biscuits in my mouth again.
Anyway, so my current project now is to try to work on the very deep seated and underlying fear. I know two things that worry me about how much is still buried away is the impact of what happens when you do get in touch with how you really feel and why you feel it - how it affects life on a day to day basis - and that sense of losing control. I can't control how it comes up, how much of it, what it will do to me. But equally I don't want to be lonely on the couch forever and I think this is the bit that needs to be worked on. I'm thinking it has to be through connecting to it, trying to keep stimulation to a minimum, sitting with it when it does come up and figuring it out. More time doing very little and less time doing too much. Might have changed my mind tomorrow lol x
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Had 24 awful hours and then it's just gone. So weird, it's almost like it just needs to be seen, heard and acknowledged, and then it can go away again. I danced last night, indoors, closed the curtains, put my headphones on and just danced. And I imagined my little five year old self dancing and laughing with a really bright, happy, carefree mummy who just whirled her around and enjoyed being with her. I cried; I have no memories of fun and laughter with any adult in my childhood. We just learnt to keep quiet and keep out of the way. I don't remember ever seeing my mum happy and carefree. Likely she never saw her mother than way either. And I don't know how often my son has seen me happy and carefree. Not as often as he should have done. So happy and carefree is my aim now, whatever we're doing, I want the stress and the pressure to be minimised and the happiness and carefree stuff to be much more plentiful.
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No quick fixes, Tupp. Just tending to the wounded and protective parts. Understanding they belong.
They don't need to be banished, only understood and tended to, though it feels horrible.....it leads to relief and new perspectives and choice, IME.
You're doing the important work, Tupp.
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Tupp, I remain absolutely awed by the power and depth of your insights, your courage in self perception, your intelligence in perceiving it all not just bluntly, but with incredibly productive nuance.
Too rushed to say more but REALLY, woman, you are an extraordinary person.
In your next life you would be an astonishly gifted therapist.
And, the sadness of your memories, and the poisoning fear, really move me. I am completely confident that you will not marinate in sorrow and fear for the rest of your life. You've found it, named it, and shamed it. You don't deserve to have these be your primary feelings day after day. Really. You don't. You can comfort that scared and sad little girl.
Dunno if it'd work for you but a loving encounter with my inner child was one of the most powerful healing moments I have ever had. Just went into a sort of daydreaming trance and I went into "her" room and there she was. Myself, about five years old. I bent down and looked into her face -- she was me -- and saw such sadness. I told her: I am so sorry I couldn't be there for you then, but I'm here now, and I'll never leave you again. She looked at me and put her arms around my neck. Sitting in my living room, I actually felt the weight of her little arms touch my shoulders. And we were okay.
It was astounding, because she was real. And I knew I had truly comforted her, and she me. I always thought "inner child" was a kind of cute abstraction, until that day.
hugs
Hops
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I didn't see your last post before responding, Tupp. How amazing is the relief of sitting in nonjudgmental awareness to tend to what's there? Astonishing release!
I hope you make dancing a regular habit. I always smile and wonder why I don't remember to dance more often. It truly is a shortcut to joy🪺
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Lighter, dancing is the best thing ever, I used to dance everywhere, all the time, and even after I had my son once he'd gone to bed in the evening I'd dance round the sitting room rather than watching the TV. I'm trying to remember when I stopped and I can't. But I am definitely starting again now :) Albeit with less energy than before lol xx
Hopsie, my wish really is that some of this internal analysis would result in some changes in my external world, because that's what I really want. I do think that inner child stuff can do some really powerful things, like you say, it can seem so real and I do think it does powerful things to people. I have felt for many years now like i'm cursed. I've tried so hard and worked so hard and yet time and time again the same obstacles come up in front of me and it always seems very unfair and unjust. I had a really bad night's sleep on Saturday so did nothing all day Sunday. And by the evening - I found myself wondering if, instead of being 'cursed' the universe has been telling me all this time I'm on the wrong path. I don't know, but I found myself thinking of very different options for myself and son, living a different sort of lifestyle and then, as is often the case, a YouTube video popped up of a lady doing what I'd love to do, then a friend got in touch out of the blue with an idea about some work together next year, then i got an email from a lady in response to an add I put out ages ago about finding people to live communally/co-operatively with. So I think I'm going to try pushing in the opposite direction of the one I've been trying for the last fifty years and see if it works. I will give details if things start going well! Or at least differently lol xx
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I've had my first narcissistic interaction in a long time today and it's funny how it still upsets and unsettles me so much, despite knowing it, recognising it and removing myself from the situation as quickly as possible. It's to do with a possible house move and long story short, one person involved (there does seem to be a certain kind of woman that really sets off my spidey senses!) has seemed throughout to be a bit manipulative, not completely honest and I felt she was pulling a lot of people's strings. Have kept involved as necessary but only as necessary with regards to the move and no more than that. It then transpired that she couldn't have our home as her family is too big for it so the landlord would not permit. Secretly i was relieved to not have to deal with her anymore but at the same time, my senses had been prickled and I screen shot all the messages in case she caused problems further down the line. She disappeared for two weeks, then reappeared today and basically asked me to turn a blind eye to her making a fraudulent claim for the tenancy. Of course I've said no and removed myself from the situation, informing the others involved that I would not be proceeding (although not mentioning what she wanted to do). As sure as night follows day the next message was hurt indignation that I'd misunderstood the situation, she was simply trying to help me out, she had lots of other options but she'd prioritised me over them all but if I didn't want to go ahead she would accept it whilst not understanding how I'd misconstrued her kind offer.
I've not responded at all, I know the best thing to do with these sort of people is not engage, but it's odd the way that mindset works identically in all of them. They're told no and won't accept it, they come up with a way around it that puts several people's homes at risk (which no sane person would do) and then when told no again they play the victim and claim it's all a big misunderstanding and you're the one that's in the wrong. It just surprised me that it still unsettled me so much, even after all this time and even with regard to something that's really been a limited amount of interaction and has ended quickly. I guess it just opens up old wounds again. I checked in with the other person in the group, they were quite appalled as well and said if I hadn't refused they would have done but it's still shaken me up a bit. Not sure whether I should notify housing or not. I'm just mindful of the problems my mother's caused in the past when I've said no to her. No way of knowing whether this one's as deranged but I might just drop them a note in case. Hate not knowing what to do in these situations. Doing nothing would be my preference but knowing how many problems my mum's allegations have caused before it does make me feel uneasy.
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Sounds like you've documented the situation well enough to let it be, but you do what you feel is good, right and protective, Tupp.
As for things changing.... there's power in setting intentions. The saying ..."We are where we want to be" is layered and complicated, IME. Not bc we want to remain stuck/cursed/transgressed against, but bc what comes next is unknown and scary.....giving up the familiar feels like falling into nothingness, maybe, sometimes.
As you said, the discomfort of living under stress is what moves us out and into new spaces, IME. I'm paraphrasing, but it's excruciating with nose on painful pebbles, IME.
Less suffering with emotional distance, expanded view point......curiosity......zero judgement.
Man, I'm never gonna stop repeating that. Not till it's solid and lives comfortably in my body.
Still.....it applies, imo.
Lighter
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Lighter, I decided to wait 24 hours to see if my anxiety was driving my thought processes or if doing any more was sensible - and within a few hours the anxiety subsided and yes, I've got screenshots if anything else occurred but I think it's unlikely she'd do anything malicious now. She doesn't have the same connection to me that my mum did and I think that's what I need to keep in mind - I will encounter people like that but they won't have the same need to control so I can disentangle asap and they will move on to their next meal so to speak. Glad I didn't do anything else now to be honest. I think next time I'll take it one step further and leave it 24 hours before responding in any way. I do still find that that behaviour immediately triggers "I'm going to lose my son", even though it's all so long ago now. Funny, isn't it?
Anyway - nose off the pebble! What is good is that all other areas of life are calm enough now that I can observe these things more objectively, take some time to figure it all out and they're quite minor so it's kind of like practise runs? It wouldn't really have mattered if I'd notified housing about it all or not. I'm glad I didn't now but equally if I had they wouldn't have launched an investigation, it would have just been noted on a file and never seen the light of day again so good thing to practise on. Maybe that is the point of these people popping up over and over lol.
Expanded viewpoint, yes, that's what it is, can we step out of the immediate situation and find another way? I think I can now. What's really helped is my son is much more able to express himself now, so I'm having to guess less and he can just tell me what he's happy with and what he isn't. He's also keen to try things out now which is really nice, for a long time I thought he'd never leave his room. We're going to an eco event in a couple of weeks, few days of camping and lots of workshops all about using natural materials, growing food, building shelters and so on. All very low key, you join in with what you want and ignore what you don't but he's up for it, he's helped sort the camping stuff out. That's a big change. So maybe this is where we need to head - more outdoor, practical, away from the public sector and more into the alternatives. Will be nice to try it out anyway xx
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I hope you're able to hold space to discern between the choices you're presented, Tupp.
See with fresh eyes....feel if they're heavy or light. Reclaim emotional distance if it goes and remember it's ok. It's going to come and go.
Assigning judgement colors our perceptions, ime. Just see what's there as you navigate new people and situations. Trust your instincts and don't allow others to talk you out of your truth.
As for seeking out nature ..... I'm totally on board and happy ds is expressing himself clearly. What a weight off your shoulders...reclaiming energy worrying what he'll want/not want.
These are steps towards more clarity, more choices and more joy and I'll pray on that for a moment.
I agree, normally upsetting situations become practice runs as one shifts POV and coping strategies.
It feels like lifting the hood to see the reasons and workings involved in thought processes leading to expanding choices, IME. I don't believe we're in our own way anymore. It feels more like shifting loyalty and beliefs back to self while shedding unconscious beliefs around loyalty and holding lines drawn for us ....from birth to present. Esp when punishment and withholding of compassion were/are applied. It's buried in the Nervous System, waiting to be mined, considered and accepted.....to be what it is. Such relief to simply identify and understand thought processes. One may consider reactions vs responsiveness or opportunities to be more responsive, sans fight or flight, IME. The more one catches fight or flight, early/before it lands, the more pathways develop and strengthen, IME.
At some point, mindfulness dispels and clarifies. It's not magic. It's practice and being so very kind to ourselves.....returning when we meander onto old pathway, without judgement.
Guilt, shame and judgement is someone else's dis-eased language, IME. Installed and grown into little escapable cells. A true stupid trap....a trap with an escape one can't see, but is there, nonetheless.
One can learn new languages at any age. I feel we're learning, ((Tupp.))
Lighter
Not scary if one drops judgement and seeks curiosity....mostly, IME. When it is scary, things resolve, eventually, depositing more stability and belief in self, IME.
I'm picturing you
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Hi (((((Tupp))))),
You've mentioned so many times how well Son responded to moving to where you ar now. I know it was good for both of you at first, but your Traveler soul is stirring again. (Completely understand about the stairs getting to be too much.).
I just worry you're pursuing a "geographical cure", which is lexicon from AA, which has ZERO to do with you, but it made me wonder if constant moving for the utopian solution of location/lifestyle isn't....something. I dunno what.
You weren't asking for advice, but I wonder if deciding to take another year here before considering moving again (unless to the more physically accessible but nearby place to age in, which you've described -- via the house swap system) could be helpful.
I know I think you're okay and will be. Just struggle with the idea of y'all being uprooted once again. I found I have roots growing out the bottoms of my feet and was determined for a time to plant them. It absolutely drove me. Despite the various agonies I was going through, having home be home for 12 years now has really helped me heal stuff. FWIW.
Then again, maybe that one email from someone interested in communal living will take you in a new direction entirely and solve the lifestyle/isolation dilemma. If it does, I'm over here cheering my lungs out!
hugs,
Hops
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I hope you're able to hold space to discern between the choices you're presented, Tupp.
See with fresh eyes....feel if they're heavy or light. Reclaim emotional distance if it goes and remember it's ok. It's going to come and go.
Assigning judgement colors our perceptions, ime. Just see what's there as you navigate new people and situations. Trust your instincts and don't allow others to talk you out of your truth.
As for seeking out nature ..... I'm totally on board and happy ds is expressing himself clearly. What a weight off your shoulders...reclaiming energy worrying what he'll want/not want.
These are steps towards more clarity, more choices and more joy and I'll pray on that for a moment.
I agree, normally upsetting situations become practice runs as one shifts POV and coping strategies.
It feels like lifting the hood to see the reasons and workings involved in thought processes leading to expanding choices, IME. I don't believe we're in our own way anymore. It feels more like shifting loyalty and beliefs back to self while shedding unconscious beliefs around loyalty and holding lines drawn for us ....from birth to present. Esp when punishment and withholding of compassion were/are applied. It's buried in the Nervous System, waiting to be mined, considered and accepted.....to be what it is. Such relief to simply identify and understand thought processes. One may consider reactions vs responsiveness or opportunities to be more responsive, sans fight or flight, IME. The more one catches fight or flight, early/before it lands, the more pathways develop and strengthen, IME.
At some point, mindfulness dispels and clarifies. It's not magic. It's practice and being so very kind to ourselves.....returning when we meander onto old pathway, without judgement.
Guilt, shame and judgement is someone else's dis-eased language, IME. Installed and grown into little escapable cells. A true stupid trap....a trap with an escape one can't see, but is there, nonetheless.
One can learn new languages at any age. I feel we're learning, ((Tupp.))
Lighter
Not scary if one drops judgement and seeks curiosity....mostly, IME. When it is scary, things resolve, eventually, depositing more stability and belief in self, IME.
I'm picturing you
You're right, Lighter, it's practise, and I'm getting there with it. I think. Only having relatively minor problems to deal with helps, it just means you can get in front of that 'fight or flight' response and try to eek the different strands out. there's definitely stuff buried in the nervous system so I'm trying to do the yoga/dancing/shaking it out of my system stuff to reduce that. It's definitely less troublesome than it used to be.
It's funny but my son had a minor procedure yesterday, very small, local anaesthetic, out in half an hour and he was absolutely fine afterwards. But I was so wiped out when we got home because I'd been so anxious and had held it all in. I know there's been a lot of that over the years, and I think maybe other minor things get stuck. They're not a big enough problem to deal with or focus time on, but they sit there and niggle away a little. I think maybe a lot of that sort of stuff needs to find its way out now. Maybe the minor mishaps are how that sort of stuff gets an outlet, finally x
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Hi (((((Tupp))))),
You've mentioned so many times how well Son responded to moving to where you ar now. I know it was good for both of you at first, but your Traveler soul is stirring again. (Completely understand about the stairs getting to be too much.).
I just worry you're pursuing a "geographical cure", which is lexicon from AA, which has ZERO to do with you, but it made me wonder if constant moving for the utopian solution of location/lifestyle isn't....something. I dunno what.
You weren't asking for advice, but I wonder if deciding to take another year here before considering moving again (unless to the more physically accessible but nearby place to age in, which you've described -- via the house swap system) could be helpful.
I know I think you're okay and will be. Just struggle with the idea of y'all being uprooted once again. I found I have roots growing out the bottoms of my feet and was determined for a time to plant them. It absolutely drove me. Despite the various agonies I was going through, having home be home for 12 years now has really helped me heal stuff. FWIW.
Then again, maybe that one email from someone interested in communal living will take you in a new direction entirely and solve the lifestyle/isolation dilemma. If it does, I'm over here cheering my lungs out!
hugs,
Hops
Thanks Hops, you've mentioned that AA thing before but it's completely different to our situation. No traveller soul or utopia seeking here, we just need buses and social groups for disabled people. I spent a year looking for ways not to move before accepting that we had no other option again, and have discussed it, at length with son, and he also feels there's not enough for him to do, that he's bored and he sees me struggling to walk some days and knows that could get worse.
A lot of people get anxious when I tell them we're moving again; to be honest I haven't mentioned it to many this time around. I've never understood the attachment to houses. Our home is wherever we are; it's where we have what we need, it's always comfortable and we can set it up anywhere. The home part of it isn't relevant, what's important are the disability related external requirements, like suitable groups and sports facilities, public transport, easy access to shops and so on. Yes, the peace and quiet here is lovely, but having to drive 200+ miles a week to get to basic things like the library, swimming pool and supermarket is expensive, impractical, time consuming, tiring and at times, very painful. Not to mention impossible if I can't drive at all.
I do feel sometimes that some people think I simply get bored one afternoon, stick a pin in a map and then randomly move house. I spend months researching online; disability provision is different everywhere, there's no standardisation or minimum requirement. We're on the lowest income level possible and below even the first rung of the property ladder which drastically reduces options for places to live. We don't want to live in a high crime area, which is what goes hand in hand with low income and cheap housing so our options are reduced further still, and we need somewhere that allows a pet, which takes us to even fewer properties. If and when we do find something, I have to pack the entire place on my own, whilst caring for my son, I have to find the money to pay for the men and the vehicle to move everything, I have to unpack it again at the other end, whilst also organising new doctors, moving referrals across, changing all the benefit awards and other change of address stuff and working a magic trick to ensure that we don't run out of my son's meds, which are prescribed in relatively small amounts and at very precise times to ensure stockpiling isn't possible, so getting enough to tide us over until I can get a script in at the new place is difficult. All the while knowing that afterwards I'll have weeks of my back and joints screaming from the exertion, whilst being busy getting son out to new things and groups so that he doesn't sit in front of a screen festering. We're skint for months before and after because of the cost of doing it and because moving house always means benefits are delayed, and this is all to be able to do things that people without disabilities don't even have to think about. It's a huge amount of work and happens because disabled people in the UK are treated like shit, and so are unpaid carers. I can't change the system on my own but I can do my best to make my son's life as happy and healthy as possible whilst also preserving my own the best I can. I think most people just don't have to take all of that into account when they choose somewhere to live, plus most have more options as they have more money and/or a regular salary that can be taken into account.
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Have we ever had a healing ceremony on the board.....never around the bonfire. Seems everything's been preparing for battle.
We should have ceremonies for processing and release....for whatever anyone needs around the fire.
:nodding::.
If jumping and jarring works for one....maybe it'll help all. If it's breathing the moon in and out ....maybe we all try.
I know I don't spend enough time focused on that kind of ritual, even though I know I'd benefit in ways I can't imagine.
Lighter
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Ahhh. I hear you and I believe you, and if it's a repeat, I'm sorry I can be so thick.
I think the real reason I started handwringing over the idea is that my heart just moaned at the notion of you having to go through it all AGAIN. But your reasons, as ever, are sane and sound and very responsible.
Man, I'd give a good TOOTH to protect you from that stress. On the other hand, I thin it's very likely that because you've researched and planned so many other forced moves that you'll make the next choice out of that wisdom -- and not from a panicky situation as you had to claw your way out of before Scotland. You have gotten much stronger and more confident and if there's anybody who knows what you and Son need and how to aim in a direction that will get you each more of that, it's you.
So count me in your corner, cheering and eager to know what paths are revealed. I really have no doubt about your ability to see them clearly. You're not going off to a caravan park of hippies...you're looking for stability and more happiness for both of you. Come to think of it, you always report precious Son as adaptable, bright, and willing to discover New right along with you.
I'm not asking what Cat thinks. But do ask and report back. And if you'd like a half-Mephistopheles, half adorable puppy, I'm sure mine can fly cheap....
hugs and support,
Hops
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Have we ever had a healing ceremony on the board.....never around the bonfire. Seems everything's been preparing for battle.
We should have ceremonies for processing and release....for whatever anyone needs around the fire.
:nodding::.
If jumping and jarring works for one....maybe it'll help all. If it's breathing the moon in and out ....maybe we all try.
I know I don't spend enough time focused on that kind of ritual, even though I know I'd benefit in ways I can't imagine.
Lighter
Definite need to shift focus towards healing, releasing and letting go, I think, Lighter, and leave the battle grounds behind. I'm kind of wishing now I'd followed my heart years ago, maybe even left the country. But my worries about my son's adult life and his needs being met meant I thought I should keep one foot in the system for his sake. Now we're at adulthood and there's still no-one else to meet his needs. Kind of thinking it would have been better to take a different path many years before. Hindsight and all that. But yes, I'm done with battling. Join in my dance or bugger off is my attitude now :) I need to prioritise that sort of thing now, I know I still tend to do what needs to be done first, and then I've run out of day/time/energy by the time that kind of ritual and self care comes about. Time to refocus that, I think xx
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Seems the harder I want to let it all go, the tighter it holds onto me. Makes me sad to think of it clinging....afraid and confused.
Today I'll try to notice the wounded and protective parts.....let them know they belong....not my intention to leave them behind.
I'll try to remember to invite them to be my allies. To dispel the emotional charges.... agree we'll do the work together.
Yup yup yup.
Will see if I have the energy for a bonfire, if it cools down.
I'll try to focus on that today, though I'm a bit distracted. And there in lies the practice.
Lighter
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Seems the harder I want to let it all go, the tighter it holds onto me. Makes me sad to think of it clinging....afraid and confused.
Today I'll try to notice the wounded and protective parts.....let them know they belong....not my intention to leave them behind.
I'll try to remember to invite them to be my allies. To dispel the emotional charges.... agree we'll do the work together.
Yup yup yup.
Will see if I have the energy for a bonfire, if it cools down.
I'll try to focus on that today, though I'm a bit distracted. And there in lies the practice.
Lighter
I've had similar, Lighter - it's almost like the coping part of yourself becomes a living thing in its own right and doesn't want you to manage better and not need it anymore. Maybe it does become like a needy friend that we have to disentangle from. And hard in the same way, because they used to be a help but not they're a burden and it always feels difficult and maybe ungrateful? That's how it felt for me at one point anyway, I felt like 'she' was really upset that she'd done so much for me and now I didn't want her. It's how I've felt towards others at times, when I've helped them through a difficult patch and once they're doing better they go off with other friends or a new boyfriend or whatever it might be and I'd be left wondering what happened. I have found guided meditations useful, just ones off YouTube but to do with releasing trauma, past experiences, unhelpful habits and that sort of thing. Seems to shift things around for me. I hope something eases you out of this difficult spot. I will have a bonfire if it ever stops raining long enough :) Lol x
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Rain .....falling on Scottish moss ...makes me want to wear rain boots and dawn a cotton shift to dance under a tarp by firelight, after turning my face up to the rain.....smiling.
And, yes ...the coping parts are real, IME. If we ignore or wish them banished .....they get larger and stronger.....what we fear will find us. Always.
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Rain .....falling on Scottish moss ...makes me want to wear rain boots and dawn a cotton shift to dance under a tarp by firelight, after turning my face up to the rain.....smiling.
And, yes ...the coping parts are real, IME. If we ignore or wish them banished .....they get larger and stronger.....what we fear will find us. Always.
Aw yes to dancing in the rain! We're away camping at an eco festival later this week - hopefully not too much rain but definitely fires, dancing and lots of nice people.
I'm working on my need to not get things wrong - but also to not get them too right. We lived on a tightrope as kids - constantly criticised but equally derided for doing something well. It's left me in a bit of a no-man's land, treading water, doing enough to not be 'bad' but not too much or I'll be too good. Definitely helps to acknowledge the coping mechanisms, talk to them, explain why we don't need them now, maybe? The last couple of mornings I've written a letter to myself, encouraging, praising, explaining, the way I would do to a friend, but don't feel able to do to myself. It feels like it's helping.
We had two dry days so I got the grass cut. Garden full of birds this morning. Thunderstorm, which we watched but didn't go out in in case we got electrocuted. Busy morning while son was at his group, bought the supplies for camping, posted off more stuff we've sold, took another bag of unwanted items to the charity shop (goodwill? Is that what you call it over there?). Chat with a friend this afternoon. Dinner is cooking, then planning a bath, paint toe nails etc. Then some yoga and maybe more relaxing stuff after that. Or maybe dancing, who knows :) Hope you are dancing in the rain, Lighter :) xx
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Looking forward to an update, Tupp. I hope camping is joyful for you and son.
Lighter
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Me, too.
All the dancing yoga joyful self care sounds awesome, Tupp. You really do get into the flow at times and I'm taking notes.
For different reasons, I felt tightropey too in childhood. It's too easy for me to slip back into that now. But I've figured out I have to be tougher about NOT putting things on the calendar and just leaving time open for extended periods. That's a wole lotta what looks like lolling around, but it's what refills my batteries at a trickle pace.
I remember biting my fingernails until they bled, and when I was little and limber, my toenails too. For me it was the bullying (brother at home, girls at school). My parents meant well and my dad was a comfort, but so exhausted and busy he only had a few minutes for me...also, mom wanted his full attention all the time. Sigh.
Today, when I have some obligation I forget or don't tend to, I notice my shoulders become hard as rocks.
I'm meeting the Sikh once a month now and really look forward to each conversation. He doesn't "fix me" but asks me a lot of excellent questions. He was pointing out that my loss of Pooch is major, so the last few months of not feeling capable is not weird. Compassion absolves, always, I think.
hugs
Hops
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Thinking about you guys and processing childhood trauma while having coffee with the hummingbirds and a hungry little finch....and REM popped into my head.
I wonder if, when you catch it, the moments of feeling bad/not good enough....
you recognize them, ask (hummingbird chirping just now) ask them to notice with you while practicing REM......if that shifts anything.
My T would use her fingers about 18" away from my face, moving faster than I could follow with my eyes. It was overwhelming to try. She suggested I choose 2 spots on the wall.....either side of a doorway maybe, at edges of peripheral vision,vto practice alone.
Of all the things she's given me......that's popped up this morning and is doable. My eyes feel a bit dizzy, but I'll continue shifting reactivity around family till coffee is done.
I hear the hawks hunting in the yard. So many distractions....fishermen sound so close ... like they're on the porch.
Back to REM for at least 2 more rounds. Do you have a light you use, Tupp or was that your T's?
Wow.....my focus is so sharp. I can spot the 2 separate hummingbirds and a little squirrel sitting in the trees. Something sounds like it's crying.... it's a few trees back. Can't spot it yet, but I see the branch the hawk likes to sit on.
: uncrossing legs:: REM.... I chatter my teeth back and forth..... they're trying to help my eyes keep up, I think, lol.
The crying noise is coming from a squirrel. Sometimes that noise goes on into the night. Assuming a nest was pillaged by an owl....they hunt at night.
:: uncrossing legs again:: Remembering to breath and commence REM again......stretch and.....I see stars and the lovely maternal spirits I've recently hosted at the lake pop up for me. The house has never been so clean or cared for.
Kayakers, not fishermen, float gently by and that's my sign to attempt smart TV set up, sans oldest DD's help, darnit 🪺
We're here, waiting for you, ((Tupp.))
Lighter
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Just a great big AHHHHHH, Lighter. Thanks for all that description.
Tupp, sorry for my hijack of the thread, going into my childhood. I guess I just think all of us and what we are at our cores happens in those early moments, but they aren't prison stones, they are touchstones. I feel better when I dip back to acknowledge it all because it says I had my reasons, and remembering reduces shame.
How not to get stuck in my sticky early wounds? More nature, more love, more friendly touch/hugs, more laughter. More liking.
hugs
Hops
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Well the camping trip was a disaster. Son couldn't cope at all and we had to come home early. There's work being done in the house so walls need to be stripped and rooms emptied so at home is chaos at the moment and isn't a nice or relaxing space to be in. Just got off the phone to a friend, ninety minute conversation during which I had a minute by minute account of a day trip they went on a little while ago, ninety minutes. I think I am generally done with people. I can't remember the last time I had a really good, deep, funny but also serious conversation with anybody. Years, decades, probably. The conversation ended because I cut it off but it just left me so tired and wishing I'd spent the time getting some more tidying up done instead. Now we're away out for the evening; I'm tired before we even go.
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((Tupp)) do you think your friend was trying to make you feel better or in some way competing with your terrible trip? In any case, you have less energy and patience for listening to ramblings of others, bc you're human and realize you have choice in the matter.
And....you did your best to dial in your son's interests while meeting his needs. You always do. Not every decision will be perfectly suited. Perhaps at a different time, it might. Just not now.
Rest as you can, ((dear one.))
This too shall pass
Lighter
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I don't think the friend has any ulterior motive, Lighter, I think she's just one of those people that can't pull out the important details from the unimportant ones and so just includes everything. I wanted to know about her trip, I asked her to tell me about her trip and I was looking forward to hearing about it. But I think twenty minutes would easily have covered it in enough depth. It was literally every detail from the moment they left their house to the moment they got back again and it was just too much, and went on for too long. There are also frequent diversions to the other time something happened, or someone else they know who went to the same place, and the conversation they had with the lady they met who turned out to know someone they used to live next door to and it just goes on like that. I don't think I could talk on any topic for ninety minutes? I sometimes did talks on books we were reading in school to small groups who were doing additional study and that would be about half an hour, and that felt like a huge amount of time to fill. I'm tired again just thinking about it lol x
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Ugh.....sorry you're reliving it. Maybe a little autism going, as I notice a duty towards giving all "relevant" facts often when recounting experiences too! It's tedious for me!
How's the house hunt going?
Lighter
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I've had a few friends who talk that way for 90 minutes.
Today, though, I can't do it. The main one starts up and after a while I'll say kindly, I've got about 10 more minutes, can you give me the summary?
I've felt in the past huge anxiety building when I NEEDED to interrupt her stream-of-consienceness but DIDN'T. I think the art of "gentle interruption" is key, and gets easier with practice.
But it sounds like your friend never took a breath. It's difficult to interrupt when you believe in politeness and patience as core values. But having an alligator chomping inside your guts and screaming brain while they drone onnnnnnnnnnnnnn is difficult too.
Rest up! I get how draining that was.
hugs
Hops
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I've been busy focusing on practical things rather than existential naval gazing the last few weeks :) Thinking about what I want, how to get it, where I'm going wrong, how I can change things, whilst still meeting son's needs and juggling the usual 'boring but necessary' stuff we all have to do.
I've been re-evaluating myself and those around me, too. We went away for a few days and the nicest thing about being away was that everyone we met was in a good mood, doing something they were enjoying (we went to a touristy type area and there were loads of Americans! Plus lots of Brits, some younger European travellers and a couple of Australians). I realised that everyone I know in real life has problems and is currently in a difficult place, likely to get worse. Generally it's health related problems. I don't think I know anyone without significant health problems now? And most of the people I know - maybe even all of them - are not taking steps to try to improve or change their situations. Even though they aren't happy or doing well as they are.
I feel enormous guilt at not problem solving/checking in every day/focusing myself entirely on other people's problems. I know I shouldn't, I know it is illogical and I know I have enough of my own problems to focus on. But being away made me realise how much I focus on what is going on outside of and around me, rather than what is inside me, what I'm made of and want I want. Even driving yesterday, I realised I had sat behind a learner driver for about ten minutes, when I could easily have passed. But I didn't want them to think I was impatient with them driving slowly so I'd sat there. It wasn't even a conscious thing, I suddenly realised I didn't need to be there and I'd automatically put the comfort of a person I didn't even know above my own needs - and hadn't even stopped to think I had no way of knowing what they were comfortable with anyway. Now I've seen it, I realised I do it all the time, in so many situations. Without even realising I'm doing it.
The nice thing about being around people who are getting on with and enjoying life is that there are so many topics of conversation and it's not reduced to a blame game, which is what I find with most people I talk to day to day. There were people with health problems and disabilities everywhere we went and, whilst that doesn't mean that everyone who is unwell or disabled can go and walk round waterfalls and go on sight-seeing trips, it did show me that a lot of the people I know personally could do more than sit in watching telly and moaning all the time. I have avoided people since we got back. I don't want to be the unofficial therapist who people offload on before going back to do more of the same that got them into the need to offload in the first place. It's been an odd few days and it made me realise I am overly attached to the past. I want, very much, to move forward, but I need to stop hanging my coat on other people's lives and start figuring out in my own way what I'm doing and why.
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There are some deep truths in your latest observation. I want to ponder them a bit before giving feedback. Hol has been having her own revelations on this kind of thing too.
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I've had a few friends who talk that way for 90 minutes.
Today, though, I can't do it. The main one starts up and after a while I'll say kindly, I've got about 10 more minutes, can you give me the summary?
I've felt in the past huge anxiety building when I NEEDED to interrupt her stream-of-consienceness but DIDN'T. I think the art of "gentle interruption" is key, and gets easier with practice.
But it sounds like your friend never took a breath. It's difficult to interrupt when you believe in politeness and patience as core values. But having an alligator chomping inside your guts and screaming brain while they drone onnnnnnnnnnnnnn is difficult too.
Rest up! I get how draining that was.
hugs
Hops
I seem to attract these kind of people, Hops. I realised I do have a pattern - yet another that I hadn't noticed lol - of becoming friends with women who (a) don't have supportive partners (so spend a lot of time discussing their angst and worries with me) and (b) who don't take practical steps to deal with their situations. I don't mean as severe as divorcing necessarily, but don't discuss their problems with their partner, they're not willing to take the financial hit that comes from going from two to one, funnily enough as I write that I realised there are three I can think of off the top of my head who stay because they know he can't cope on his own and although they might be able to adjust to a smaller property in a new area, hubby won't. And that is the pattern of my mother, again. I've recreated similar situations so many times, and almost never realise it. They're not abusive like my mum, but they are in that perpetual state of refusing to acknowledge reality and dealing with what's actually happening. And I think that's why I find it so tiring to listen to it all. There's just no awareness, even when talking about something good. My friend in this case wasn't moaning, they had a really nice time, but so much of it was just not stuff anyone needs to know - what they had for dinner each night, what time they went out each morning, the conversation they had with the concierge each day. It's that focus on minutiae whilst ignoring the big problems they have in life - health care problems that aren't being dealt with, financial issues that aren't being dealt with, not seeing which bits are good and work well so doing more of them. I feel anxious when I listen to people talking about things that don't matter when I know they have big cliffs ahead of them that they're going to walk straight off of because they focus on the little things and keep ignoring the big stuff. It's my mum all over again and I think that's why it bugs me. I don't quite know how to adjust things. These are good people who have a good place in my life and I wouldn't want to be without them. But their refusal to deal with reality makes me anxious and I'm just not really in that place where I can go, "oh well". And genuinely be unaffected by it. Something else to ponder, I guess x
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How's the pondering going, Tupp?
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You are, as ever, SO insightful, Tupp.
What hits me is that someone who has worked so hard, and so intelligently, for insight into her own behaviors and patterns, is just baffled by cliffdwellers who can't or won't.
I'm guessing, but could some of this come from the very-rational gifts of being a bit on the spectrum? My D (Asperger's) used to complain to me: I just want the FACTS, Mom! Only years later did I realize she was just showing me how her brain worked differently. It must've been maddening for her to be with someone who was head-in-navel what are my FEEEEELNGS all day long. Or was isolating to write about that.
Anyhow, I get how draining and frustrating and anxiety-triggering that's been for you. You were literally struggling (not drama-struggling, near-drowning struggling) for years and years to keep yourself and Son safe and functional. To meet with people, good people, who have no clue how deep and wrenching that struggle was, and how it affected your psyche would be hard. Not worthless, it's good practice for the quotidian and mundane where most people live. But still hard.
Sending you much support for finding a peaceful balance. And, you go through some of the most productive pondering I've ever been honored to witness.
hugs
Hops
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Ah it's the opposite with me, Hops, lost in translation due to me trying to keep things brief - when I say angst and worries it's not feelings being discussed, it's a long list of 'he did this and then he didn't do that and then he should have done that but then he didn't do this', all of which is accompanied by lots of extra detail of where, when, why, background etc - and all of it manageable by saying or doing something fairly simple. To give one example (and this is from a long time ago), a friend - who was a good friend, I cared for her a lot and enjoyed her company and she was good to me many times - spent a considerable length of time going through every detail of what had been an all weekend long argument over a scratch on the family car which she was certain was the fault of the husband. How she knew that when they both drove it regularly I don't know, but this whole passive aggressive argument started because of it, went on for three days, all around the kids, and here she was making my ears bleed with a minute by minute account of this endless and pointless saga. If I had a car, and a partner, and there was a scratch on the car, I would either fix the scratch myself, or ask him to do it. It's probably no more than a ten minute job, it's no different to polishing a table so it's not difficult to do, but when I asked her why she didn't just say "there's a scratch on the back of the car, can you fix it over the weekend" she looked at me like I had two heads. She just couldn't comprehend it and that's what I've had a lot of over the years - a need for endless drama (instead of just dealing with the situation - talk about how it makes you feel, of course, but why not look for a solution? I don't get that). Or a similar focus on irrelevant, unnecessary detail while huge obstacles remain unchecked - ie the friend with the holiday talk, who has an hour and a half free to give a blow by blow account of their trip but doesn't have time to go to the doctor and get the long list of health problems she has checked and dealt with, even though she's getting to the point of being disabled because things are getting so bad now.
I guess what it really highlighted for me (when we were away) was how nice it was to have uncomplicated conversations about where people were from and where they were going and how much they were enjoying it and so on. Uplifting verses draining, I guess.
I think there's a bit of a misconception that autistic people don't deal with feelings. I've never met an autistic person like that, in fact most I know are incredibly sensitive souls and worry enormously about other people and feel very deeply. I think it more likely that other people's feelings - in large amounts and in situations that can't be avoided - are very draining to listen to, particularly if it is just an emotional dump, rather than a quest for a solution. You need facts to problem solve. I think some people thrive on other people's feelings in a vampirific sort of way - it's fuel for the next bout of coffee morning gossip, or it makes people feel important to be trusted with the information. I've no issue with someone talking about their feelings, if it's proportionate to the situation (ie someone grieving will have a huge amount to get off their chest, someone still wanging on about feeling hard done by that someone else got the job seven years after it happened needs to take action to deal with that and move on). I think it's the perpetual helplessness that bugs me and I seem to have attracted a lot of that over the years. Although equally it's helped me work through a lot of my own stuff so I probably shouldn't be so dismissive of it xx
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I have an example that is my mission to work on over the weekend :)
A very good friend of mine - caring, thoughtful, considerate - has a number of health problems, none of which she is dealing with. She doesn't follow medical advice, won't make lifestyle changes, tries multiple gimmicky type things (usually after it's recommended by an 'influencer') but doesn't follow through on anything that seems to help a bit. Takes part in activities that she knows will exacerbate her problems and make it difficult for her to function for several days.
We have had many conversations about her health and the many things that worry her. I have sent her lots of things I've found online in relation to the problems, whether it's articles about conventional treatments, complementary therapies, diet plans, exercise suggestions, even just basic stress management techniques. This is because I problem solve - there's no point endlessly talking about a problem without attempts to solve it (the only exceptions being problems that don't have a solution, like grief). Talking through the different attempts, yes, seeking others opinions or own experiences in relation to dealing with that problem, yes, having those down in the dumps times when nothing seems to be working, yes. But not 'create the problem - make no attempt to solve the problem - talk endlessly about the problem that you're making worse instead of trying to improve. So having been thinking to myself I'll see if she's free over the weekend for a phone call, I'm now not going to phone her because I don't want to listen to the latest crisis that she's created less than two weeks since getting over the last one by going out and doing something she knew would make things worse.
It's not a problem for me - just my observations about how things are. I am trying hard to prioritise what I want and need to do, and others can join in if they want, or carry on regardless if they don't. I do still feel a tug - she's suffering and that obligation to fix and soothe runs deep in me and feels uncomfortable to ignore. But she's suffering because she won't deal with the reality of the situation and that seems to be all around me. I don't even know why I'm waffling on lol, I just felt I needed to get it out of my head somehow x
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I hoped to get back to you sooner with some of my thoughts on this relational "phenomenon" Tupp. But I've been SUPER busy this week (beyond my comfort zone busy). I may not say this bit, all that coherently, as a result but here goes nothin'.
When we were small, and lived in abusive unpleasant times... we learned that by caretaking adults around us, sometimes it saved us from the brunt of the worst experiences. I even see the little kitties doing this behavior. It works often enough to become a conditioned response. A coping mechanism. And depending on how deeply we internalized it, becomes part of our outward facing "persona".
Other people did the same thing when they were young - but situationally, things were different and they developed other conditioned responses. They obtained the safety they wanted by being bullies, or being "sick", etc different approaches. And there is some sort of primal attraction between the different types - a dysfunctional "utility" that keeps people stuck in those kinds of transactional relationships. (For one thing, it feels "normal" because the behavior is so old and engraved on their persona.)
To act differently than the conditioned behavior is UNcomfortable and feels fake or mask-like... even when our inner voices (instincts) and deepest feelings are telling us that providing a different behavior is EXACTLY what we should do. The new behavior doesn't feel like "us"; doesn't feel authentic or genuine (even though it's more authentic than the conditioned one). That's merely a different familiarity; habit.
Practicing - like you're doing - is probably the fastest & easiest way to break the old habit. Sometimes, we screw up but that's OK; we're learning from the screw ups. And trying again the "next time", we'll remember what we learned.
Does that make any sense to you? There is other language I can use to describe this but the "mechanical process" seemed like a good starting point. The other styles get into less concrete examples; more philosophical, emotional, spiritual stuff... but the process is still the same and we risk misunderstanding more, when using the other styles of language. There's more room for personal interpretation... and sometimes there is an AHA synchronicity of understanding that feels truly good... but we humans are a tad psychologically complex and it's just not as simple as a "how things work" explanation!
I see you making a great leap forward in your work now. You're applying it to real life situations and getting good results. However you think/speak of this is definitely working for you!
"Real life" is trying even in the calmest most settled of times. We (globally) aren't living in settled times. I occasionally see some of the strongest sanest people completely lose their cheese off their cracker these days. And some days, that's me too. It's not a lot of times, but I have had to take some things off my plate lately, when I'm feeling overwhelmed and like life issues are piling on. First thing to go for me, is always "OPPs" - other people's problems. When I get grounded again, then I re-engage.
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Yes, that's exactly it, Skep, it's like trying not to blink. It's so much a part of who you are and what you do that not doing it feels as difficult as not blinking. I find it very hard to say, "let me know how that works out for you", partly because I feel it's very passive aggressive and I hear it as "I couldn't give a s**t, I don't care what happens to you, don't bore me with your problems". I don't feel it's a phrase that really works for me - although at the same time I sometimes feel I'm being manipulated by people who prefer to be 'helpless' in their situations. I did keep saying to myself, "I don't have to fix this' and that helped. It's just mad to me when there are relatively simple things that would help a bit (I know because I do them myself and for most people it's common sense). Little steps, keep practising, one day it will be easier! Lol. I hope your busy week has calmed down a bit now x
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Whoo boy..... I'm re reading recent posts on this thread.......trying not to blink.
Lighter
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Whoo boy..... I'm re reading recent posts on this thread.......trying not to blink.
Lighter
Lighter, I hope you're doing okay. Is there any sense of normality creeping back in yet? I hope there's some level of function now with the very basics covered, at least.
I've pondered some more (in fact I keep waking up in the night with it all going round in my brain) and I think I did write a post a while back about me selecting people who don't cope because I feel inferior to people who've got their s**t together. I can't remember if I actually wrote it or just thought it, but it makes sense to me. I am trying very hard to focus on my stuff and not be derailed by the need to rescue others.
We did have a really lovely experience last week. My son started a new social group and watching him go in, shake everyone's hands, introduce himself and throw himself into the activities, without needing any prompting or support from me to do it, was a real testament to the well adjusted, confident man he's grown in to. We spent so many years at home because socialising was such a nightmare, and when we did do it, it had to be really carefully managed. So to see him go in, settle down straight away and really enjoy himself, was really lovely. He was buzzing when he came out, really happy and content. It was amazing to see and has made me feel very hopeful for the future. I told him at the weekend that I was very proud of the man he's become, and that I really admired all the difficult experiences he'd had through childhood and how he'd worked through them. He blushed, it was so cute (but I can't say he's cute because it annoys him lol). We've got a really good life now, for all sorts of different reasons but him thriving - despite the best efforts of many to thwart that - is a real balm.
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Whoo boy..... I'm re reading recent posts on this thread.......trying not to blink.
Lighter
Lighter, I hope you're doing okay. Is there any sense of normality creeping back in yet? I hope there's some level of function now with the very basics covered, at least.
No, Tupp. In fact I'm overwhelmed with the likely clogged aerators in bathroom sinks and mud in water heater and whatever fresh hell is possibly waiting back home.
I know there's a ton of debris and some glass in yard and driveway and roof, a long with damaged gutters, for certain. I posted about feeling dizzy on another thread and I
hope it stops, completely, very soon. It's much better, but adding to dismay over hurricane wreckage and lives, homes and infrastructure lost.
I've pondered some more (in fact I keep waking up in the night with it all going round in my brain) and I think I did write a post a while back about me selecting people who don't cope because I feel inferior to people who've got their s**t together. I can't remember if I actually wrote it or just thought it, but it makes sense to me. I am trying very hard to focus on my stuff and not be derailed by the need to rescue others.
I think I have done understanding, in my own way, of what you're going through with this.
We did have a really lovely experience last week. My son started a new social group and watching him go in, shake everyone's hands, introduce himself and throw himself into the activities, without needing any prompting or support from me to do it, was a real testament to the well adjusted, confident man he's grown in to. We spent so many years at home because socialising was such a nightmare, and when we did do it, it had to be really carefully managed. So to see him go in, settle down straight away and really enjoy himself, was really lovely. He was buzzing when he came out, really happy and content. It was amazing to see and has made me feel very hopeful for the future. I told him at the weekend that I was very proud of the man he's become, and that I really admired all the difficult experiences he'd had through childhood and how he'd worked through them. He blushed, it was so cute (but I can't say he's cute because it annoys him lol). We've got a really good life now, for all sorts of different reasons but him thriving - despite the best efforts of many to thwart that - is a real balm.
That's an amazing and hopeful day for you and son, (((Tupp.))). It's releasing happy chemicals just to read it🥰
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I think I've loved Son from afar for ages, Tupp.
Otherwise, how to explain the tears that leapt after reading that account?
I feel so awed by him, and you, whose love and determination have made his life so good and his future so hopeful.
I was SO happy to read that! And again, awed. What you have done with heroic effort for so long for Son is the kind of life work that will never make the news. But oh it should.
hugs and respect,
Hops
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(((((((Lighter)))))))))) I'm not surprised you're overwhelmed - just reading the list felt overwhelming to me, so to experience it along with dizziness, long term problems to sort and general despair and difficulty all around - I can't even imagine. All I can say is I hope that the to do list starts to feel more manageable and that as other folks lives start to settle more if all feels less overwhelming. If I could sweep in on my broom stick to fetch and carry and sweep up, I would do so xx
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I think I've loved Son from afar for ages, Tupp.
Otherwise, how to explain the tears that leapt after reading that account?
I feel so awed by him, and you, whose love and determination have made his life so good and his future so hopeful.
I was SO happy to read that! And again, awed. What you have done with heroic effort for so long for Son is the kind of life work that will never make the news. But oh it should.
hugs and respect,
Hops
Aw, thanks, Hops. I must admit I am really enjoying see the fruits of all those years of work showing themselves in how he is and the things he can manage now. Really feels like we've got to a good point in life. We met loads of people when we were away the other week and he chatted away to them, it's so different to some of his peers who, unfortunately, were so badly bullied in school and have been made to do things that they weren't ready to do, that they don't talk to anyone they don't know and won't go anywhere without a parent. One of the mums I know still can't leave her son with anyone else and he's in his thirties. I think the system fails them so badly, and I'm very grateful that I saw it early on and got him out. I'm very lucky. Not least because we've had unusually warm weather the last few days and I was gardening in a T shirt yesterday :) Lol x
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I'm having very vivid dreams that my mum has died and I'm in her house. It's weird that after all this time I can see every detail of her home in such detail, I know where everything is and I feel that horrible tense feeling that was always present. It's so vivid that when I wake up I have a few moments of not being sure where I am This morning I turned the wrong way out of my bedroom and instead of heading for my bathroom, I took two steps toward where her bathroom would be before realising I'm not there.
There is nowhere else I would feel I could say this, but I am looking forward to her passing. When I think of it, I feel such a sense of relief and an unsnapping of chains, even though I've had so little contact with her for so many years now. I still feel this malefic presence around me when I think of her. I feel enormously sad that all I have with my mum is a sense of wishing she were gone. I feel angry at her stupidity for doing such terrible things to people who loved her, when what she wanted so desperately was to be loved. She had everything she wanted, and she harmed us all again and again until we all turned away. I still struggle to see how anyone can be in that situation and not, at some point, wonder if they were doing something wrong and seek help from a therapist or some sort of self help situation. Truly baffling.
Anyhoo. It is not a problem, more just an observation. I'm trying very hard to stick to a daily routine. I am seeing some improvements in sleep and energy, despite the vivid dreaming. We are having incredible weather at the minute, which I love. I have lost a bit of weight. Son and I have got into a better routine at home so the house and garden are coming together (and nothing in the garden is growing now, which is a relief. The plan is to prune to buggery over the winter, get the broken fence replaced and then hopefully all will be easier to maintain through next spring/summer.
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Oh Tupp, I completely understand and think your anticipation of your mother's death is not malevolent or macabre -- it's just honest. That's your very great gift, imo, the ability to see yourself and own and describe clearly what you think and feel.
And in the circumstances you were raised in, I'd have the exact same feeling of waiting for the sun. I felt the same way about Nmom, after that decade. She took all she could from me in terms of attention and compassion, and there was nothing left. With my D, I began to see even more clearly how this had been my pattern all along.
Now I'm more self-centered, but not with selfishness as much as seeing that my life will go all the way off the rails if I don't allow myself to be that real.
I've respected your compassion and lamented your lasting link, just as I did my own for a while. But in the year before her death my path cleared up, and I just admitted completely that I needed to be free of her, and knew her death would be a relief. It was. Immediately. I hope you'll truly feel that release and let her float off.
My SNbro's and D's attacks during the two years after made it harder, but it wasn't about grief for her, though there are moments I can experience that and feel...warm. It wasn't that I coldn't feel anyting tender for her ever, it was just that you can't heat and keep flattening a pancake so hard it becomes sealed to the pan. Then it just can't nourish you, and becomes hard scrapings. Inedible.
You've done a brilliant and very mindful job for years of unpicking the too-tight threads of that bond, imo. And now you're truly attentive to nourishing your own spirit, and son's. As it should be. There will be some genuine sadness, but I think you've already experienced the complicated version of grief, and have now made room for simple peace.
hugs,
Hops
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Thanks, Hops. I think you have to be very careful who you say this sort of thing to, some people can't comprehend a loss being a relief in this way. I have some trepidation with regard to what she'll have arranged to cause problems after she's gone. I can't see her simply departing and am envisaging, at best, a horrible letter of some kind and at worst, some sort of divisive will designed to ensure the siblings fight and attack each other. It's not something I worry about but knowing what she's like, I am certain she'll have some sort of parting shot for us all. Sad but true.
I'm still trying to unpick the 'be good but not too good' message that seems to be very deeply entrenched in me. I' realising that she's done her best to remove the two people I loved the most from my life. She threw my dad out and tried repeatedly to get my son taken away from me. I think it's left me with a fear (albeit an irrational one) that anything good or that brings me joy will be taken away from me. It's funny but I was thinking back to childhood (loads of these little things are popping up at the moment) and I was thinking about how generous she always was at Christmas and birthdays - but how we never got what we actually wanted. It's weird but she'd spend a lot of money, but not buy us what we really wanted to have. You can't be ungrateful for presents but the point is to get the person something they want. So we'd always have this weird thing of, for example, a huge sack of presents under the tree, lots of nice stuff, but the one thing we really wanted wouldn't be there, even though it would have been cheaper. My aunt bought me a tape cassette of my favourite musician when I was young (showing my age now) and it's the one present I really remember, because I wanted it so much and I played it so many times that I wore it out. All these other things and that five pound gift was the one I really liked. I'm rambling, it feels like loose ends are being tied up. We must avoid inedible pancakes! Lol x
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I get it Tupp. I had about 20 minutes of sadness about "what could've been but never was" when I got the news my Mom had died. Then, there was the sensation that the 16-ton anvil had disappeared; permanently. Yeah, relief of a sort. For a short time.
Then, blessedly nothing; not really. Some reminiscing; some more objective thoughts that felt like "well, she did the best she could, and couldn't do any more - she just wasn't capable". And not really thinking/feeling anything after that, regarding the relationship we didn't have; what passed for relationship but wasn't; and just letting it go... peacefully; turning my attention to other things and people.
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Yes I feel the same, Skep, I've done my many years of mourning for what I didn't have, wishing things were different and dealing with the numerous problems and situations she created as the years ticked along. I think I posted on here years ago that I was hoping she'd pass before my stepfather because I didn't think I'd be able to continue being no contact knowing she was all alone, but even that feeling now has passed. I think my sadness is for the situation as a whole, almost more for her and what she could have had, even with just an attempt to get some sort of help. But I do feel that relief will be the biggest thing. I think I'm very ready for all of this to be over x