Author Topic: Mindfulness and codependence thread  (Read 48634 times)

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2019, 09:38:18 AM »
When I take in lots of different information about a topic, it helps me understand, integrate, and recall that information in a helpful manner when I need it. 


I see my T today!  It's funny.... when I think of her,  I can smell my happy tomato garden: )

Lighter

Twoapenny

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2019, 07:19:27 AM »
Gosh you've been busy on this thread, Lighter, I've missed loads!

I think I've kind of got a handle on my codependence issues at the minute.  What I find difficult about new habits and new ways of thinking is keeping them up when busy or stressed.  It's easy for things to slip away when you're rushing around a lot.  It sounds as if you're managing to keep the balls up in the air, which is good.

I am finding my mindfulness needs a purpose.  If I try to think about the washing up as I'm doing it I just feel bored.  If I think about how I feel when I walk into the kitchen and it's tidy that feels better for me.  And on that note, I am just off to cook lunch :)

Hope your session with you T goes well and that you have fun in your tomato garden :) xx

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2019, 04:22:12 PM »
I love the happy tomato garden, Lighter.
Your description was so vivid I could see myself there.
Lovely.

A WEIRD question:
Is it possible that one can get lost in mindfulness or that it ever becomes a ... kind of ... escape from stuff? I might be looking for excuses since I'm way too stuck in my head. I'm terrible at meditation or lengthy mindfulness. I've done it enough in workshops etc to know how amazing it can feel, but am never successful at maintaining it for long.

So maybe I'm just looking for a rationale for why I flunk it!

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2019, 02:08:52 PM »
Hops:

If the question is....
Can anything become belly button gazing, faffi g about....
I'm positive the answer is YES.

Like helping an addict....one has to take stock of outcomes.  IS the practice helping us get more of what we want, or enabling poor habits and strategies to continue?

As I drive 2 vehicles daily quite often, I'm noticing how confused my brain is over controls....wipers today with the rain....emergency brake, just lots of things.

I assume it's the same with waffling about with minfulnes d's for me, which is imperfect, and difficult to incorporate.  That's why I'm seeing this T every week.

I do feel I'm moving waypoints.  Last night I found 3 documents out of 6 files I've used over the years for the dock.  Chaos rules, but everything I needed was found.

I found 2 letters from MIL to oldest DD, and didn't feel a thing.

That's a huge departure, and I'm learning how to handle my Cows....always will be another Crisis Of the Week.

I think practicing mindfulness consistently will be like driving one vehicle all the time with the confusion of changing up every once in a while.  My nervous system will calm down, and give me time to select responses....build new pathways up till they're as familiar as driving a car every day.

I think I have to do that hard work or I'll always fall back on old pathways when under stress.

Daily mindful practice is about beefing up preferred pathways, imo.  Cultivating joy in each moment as habit. 

I'm ticking this out with one finger while waiting for the bus.  Let me know it parts or entire response needs clarification: )
Lighter

Twoapenny

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2019, 05:34:06 AM »
Lighter, that is amazing news!  So great that those letters didn't trigger anything off, and that you were able to find the things you need in the sea of paperwork.  I am sometimes amazed when I open a file at how well organised it is despite the fact I have no recollection of doing any of the work :) There is obviously a bit of the brain that just sorts stuff out for us :)

Hops, if it's any consolation, mindfulness and meditation don't work for me, either.  Meditation just makes me fall asleep (I think the naps help, though :) ).  And I have a problem solving kind of mind, I think.  I find I don't want to concentrate my thoughts on what's going on right now, because most of what's going on right now is boring and makes me want to throw myself off a cliff.  I function better if I can

Twoapenny

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2019, 05:39:15 AM »
I pressed the wrong button!  Lol.  I find I function better if I problem solve first and then can focus on how nice it feels to be in the bath or how my body feels when I'm doing yoga.  But when I'm stressed, anxious, upset or anything like that the last place in the world it feels good to be in is inside my body and I find trying to focus on that just makes me feel worse, plus I get stressed because I'm not dealing with the thing that stresses me :)  Lol.

I have had interesting chats with the acupuncturist guy about all these sorts of things and I do think some people's brains are just wired differently and function better in different ways.  We were talking about that thing about acceptance - just accepting the situation you're in and not fighting against it.  But I immediately think of all the injustice and inequality that I think we should fight hard not to accept and to just go with.  So for me I kind of take what I want from these things now and leave the bits that don't work for me.  At the minute I'm finding it easier to cope with stress because I can channel my anger or frustration or whatever into moving and/or setting up some work from home.  I have another goal to work towards, which helps me cope.  Before I felt like whatever I did drilled me deeper into the pit and if I focused on that I just fell in a bit more.  So I have no idea why it helps some people and not others :)  But just wanted you to know you're not the only one it doesn't work miracles for :)  Lol xx

sKePTiKal

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2019, 08:32:08 AM »
Aye-yie-yie... I know what you two are talking about. Where if ya don't start deconstructing the problem right away and looking for points where you can change it... you feel even worse. IMO, that's because of past roles parenting the parents; we put that pressure on ourselves to try to hold things (and people) together. And then that whole thing can spiral out of control. Emotionally; bio-neurologically and then physically.

What mindfulness is suggesting one do, isn't 1/2 hr of meditation so much as... giving yourself permission to "take care of yourself first". To take a time out; breathe yourself present in your body FIRST... allow yourself to remember "I'm safe in the here and now"... and really feel solid in that space before turning to look at the "problem" again. Some people can do that during activity, as well. Washing dishes works for me - especially putting dishes away in my small kitchen. I turn that into moving meditation, tai chi, dancing... whatever. Just to get "present" in my body. It kinda sets the tone for the day, for me.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Twoapenny

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2019, 03:56:16 AM »
Aye-yie-yie... I know what you two are talking about. Where if ya don't start deconstructing the problem right away and looking for points where you can change it... you feel even worse. IMO, that's because of past roles parenting the parents; we put that pressure on ourselves to try to hold things (and people) together. And then that whole thing can spiral out of control. Emotionally; bio-neurologically and then physically.

What mindfulness is suggesting one do, isn't 1/2 hr of meditation so much as... giving yourself permission to "take care of yourself first". To take a time out; breathe yourself present in your body FIRST... allow yourself to remember "I'm safe in the here and now"... and really feel solid in that space before turning to look at the "problem" again. Some people can do that during activity, as well. Washing dishes works for me - especially putting dishes away in my small kitchen. I turn that into moving meditation, tai chi, dancing... whatever. Just to get "present" in my body. It kinda sets the tone for the day, for me.

That makes sense to me, Skep.  I know I've talked to several people about what happens when I start to 'spiral'.  If I don't catch it before it happens then it takes forever to get back down out of it again and I find it so exhausting.  It is like an instinctive response - almost like an out of body experience in some ways.  Like an autobot takes control and you're kind of banging on the door trying to get back in so you can put yourself back in charge.  It's catching it before it takes off that I find really difficult to do.  We must all keep practising!  Lol.  I think Lighter is star pupil on this one :) lol xx

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2019, 03:42:54 PM »
Amen, Lighter, to what Tupp said...you're the consistent and devoted one, and you really know from that kind of discipline. It's like martial arts but inside you. Awes me.

Tupp, yupp. I can relate a lot to what you describe except that you work a hell of a lot harder at solving your problems than I do. I tend to loll around defining and redefining and re-redefining them, none of which actually moves the needle.

Amber, thank you for this: "I am safe in the here and now." That's something I can say to myself when anxieties contribute to too much stasis. Another, I think, for me might be: "I am happy doing this." It could be the simplest thing, like completing my unpacking I left undone when I came home sick. Even cleaning up the kitchen.

When domestic mess piles up I give up and run away from it too easily.

Hops

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2019, 02:28:17 PM »
Tupp, an afterthought:

I wonder what it would be like if you continued all your hard work toward a better life, but instead of being motivated by ANGER, you tried on experimenting with a motivation of PEACEFUL PROGRESS.

You might accomplish just as much, but with less cost to your well being?

I don't know, it just popped into my head.

Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2019, 11:52:19 AM »
Aye-yie-yie... I know what you two are talking about. Where if ya don't start deconstructing the problem right away and looking for points where you can change it... you feel even worse. IMO, that's because of past roles parenting the parents; we put that pressure on ourselves to try to hold things (and people) together. And then that whole thing can spiral out of control. Emotionally; bio-neurologically and then physically.

What mindfulness is suggesting one do, isn't 1/2 hr of meditation so much as... giving yourself permission to "take care of yourself first". To take a time out; breathe yourself present in your body FIRST... allow yourself to remember "I'm safe in the here and now"... and really feel solid in that space before turning to look at the "problem" again. Some people can do that during activity, as well. Washing dishes works for me - especially putting dishes away in my small kitchen. I turn that into moving meditation, tai chi, dancing... whatever. Just to get "present" in my body. It kinda sets the tone for the day, for me.

I wish I could add to this, but I'm having trouble keeping it short and concise.  The mindfulness THING isn't a magical meditative state, IME. 

It's about taking back our hijacked biology, which shuts down parts of our brains WE NEED TO FINISH PROCESSING things that are stuck, engage in problem solving, and logical/creative frontal cortex access that is otherwise limited or shut down completely when we're experiencing stress.... old pathways just pop up, and take over
if
we
don't
mindfully
notice
what's
happening
in our internal worlds,
decide if we're on the right track to get more of what we want,
and correct course, choose new pathways, build them, and practice choosing them,m particularly when we're under stress, which is when the old pathways, lightening fast, come online before we can think about choice.

At that point, the mindfulness practice is what we use to gain control of our biology, so our brains can settle down, and provide access to integrated WHOLE brain processing that makes it possible to mindfully ponder what just happened, how it affects us and our lives, and whether or not we need to form new habits/pathways/ability to choose them..... to improve our quality of life.

Left to our default settings, our survival brain is content with SURVIVAL ONLY.  Survival brain cares nothing about quality of life, and the only way to get a hold on the way we process stress is to become aware of what we're thinking, look at it without ANY judgment, and SEE truthfully how those thoughts impact our lives... without judgment without judgment without judgment.... only curiosity, bc it IS interesting once we begin to notice. 

It's empowering.

It expands possibility to SEE what IS, bc there's so much more out there for us if we can ONLY SEE beyond our reactionary brain's default pathways that pop up before we're aware of them. 

This caveman reptilian brain kept us alive when we were chased by saber tooth tigers, but it's not as useful in this day and age.  We have the ability to notice it, decide if it's necessary in THIS moment, and calm it down if imminent danger isn't involved.

Calming down our survival brain isn't easy, and I should think that those of us who depended on fight, flight, fawn to survive in childhood have massive brain pathways that must be addressed, and overcome, vs those of us who don't have ongoing childhood trauma, and attachment issues, IME.

With that said, I've failed every attempt to meditate, without REAL direction and help from a professional trauma expert with her masters and stone cold focus that keeps me on track, and out of the woods..... ON TRACK. 

Tupp.... it's not going to be easy to untrain your very competent brain OUT OF DOING WHAT'S kept you alive all these years. It's going to be a bumpy, frustrating ride, but getting there will be revelation, and so worth it, IME.

It's just that.... trying to meditate when you don't have a good roadmap is so very difficult... impossible for me, I KNOW THIS. 

It's OK to KNOW that attempts failed you before.  It's also OK to consider there are tricks, and ways around the things that trip us up when first practicing.... things that get us around the roadblocks. 

One of the things is something that I dealt with too.... the negative reaction to the concept of meditation that FAILED me when I needed it most. 

They say... when the student is ready, the teacher appears.  I guess that's true in many respects.  It certainly has been FOR ME while facing codependence, and WORRY WORRY WORRY coping strategies that keep me locked in fight/flight/fawn mode...... and I SEE how that cycle works in my life when I can pay attention.

I see there can be something better.  I desire serenity, always have. 

I can bring more of that into my life, and MORE of what I want.... to feel at home in my skin, to BE enough without doubt, and to move with confidence toward things that are new, and exciting.... more of what I want, less of what hasn't been working for me.

OK, I can't say this in fewer words!

I find myself envious of Hop's ability to express complex concepts with poetic economy!  AGAIN.

I did try.

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2019, 12:25:48 PM »
Well, you just did.

Fight/flight/fawn

Brilliant.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2019, 10:21:21 AM »
Thanks, Hops: )

Yesterday I spent hours enjoying my neighbor's company. I didn't fear feeling whonky around her.  I didn't spend time worrying about knee jerk people pleasing bahaviors, and it was a relief.

We tarped leaves from her yard INTO my front leaf island, which seems to get windswept and bald.... weeds grow... it looks uncared for, and unfinished.

It NOW has piles of leaves 3 feet high.....  I also tarped the culdesac leaves in.... and some of my side yard leaves too.  I took time to wet them down, and throw little sticks, of which I have SO MANY..... on top to sort of anchor them in place.  If I can't create a bed that stays in place, I don't know what I'll do next.

I cleaned out the dry creek bed, the drainage ditch, and the rock garden.... and one BIG pile of sticks I've been ignoring and adding to like I wouldn't have to eventually move it.... still one other pile of sticks and branches to move.  Aside from that, and the rest of the leaves falling.... the yard is completely caught up.

I'll blow the gutters and roof before removing the next layer of leaves.

I share the dry creek bed at the mailbox with my neighbor... half on their property, half on mine, so it felt nice to do that, AND blow their driveway.  They're very nice people, elderly, and struggling with illnesses that make working in the yard impossible at times.  I had to figure out where to blow the leaves, bc there's no good place over there.  Just too many leaves in some places, and not enough in others.  It's like a puzzle, but satisfying walking meditative work I don't mind doing. 

I have got to start marking out time to practice mindfulness on a regular basis.  It's difficult to stop what I'm doing, and just do it.   I used to work super hard out 6 or more hours a week without fail, so I can figure this out too. 

Lordy, I worked so hard in the yard this weekend.... my heart wanted to burst. 
And it felt good.  It makes me wonder why I don't have a regular work out in place, but that's on the list too.


Lighter


Twoapenny

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2019, 10:42:45 AM »
I'm really pleased you didn't feel wonky around the neighbour, Lighter, and that you got so much done!  My word, busy busy, it must do you the power of good to be outside doing that all day? xx

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2019, 02:08:23 PM »
I find being out in nature is very helpful for my mental health, Tupp.

And YES!  Your discussion around noticing people-pleasing behaviors was on my radar when I went into the yard.  I didn't think about it once I was out the door, but I put it at the front of my mind before leaving the house, and just relaxed into NOT cringing, worrying, and FEELING uptight about what would come next. 

I remember feeling that way around neighbors twenty years ago... such nice people.  That they don't feel comfortable around codependent behaviors/people pleasing behaviors makes interaction uncomfortable... the SEE it, and I sense they SEE it, kwim?

Just understanding that, and not trying to resist it seemed to work pretty well.  I agreed with myself that I'd ask her how she'd DO things more often, and let her talk.... do what she was comfortable doing, and not try to DO everything myself, save her from unstable areas, bc she broke her neck not long ago, and I worry about her falling.  She's a big girl, and will do what she knows she can do, and I have to just relax into NOT worrying FOR her.   

Can it be so easy to STOP people-pleasing?  Think an interaction through ahead, decide on strategies, then get in there and have as much fun as you can?

I sure hope so: )

I'll tell you this.... conversation is much easier when I'm not filling every empty space, and yes... we got SO much done in the yard yesterday.   I'm astonished, and so pleased.

Lighter