Don't know what to say

[pennyplant]

So many beautiful words and images to describe something so painful and maddening.  I feel lucky to be here and to have access to these gifts that you all are sharing.

Dragonsamm, you are definitely not alone in this.  Just let it all sink in.  All of these people are telling you the truth.  I'm not as far along yet, but have experienced enough of my own miracles and "coincidences" to know that it is possible.  Let it all sink in and soon you will be able to see something new.  Something will get through, maybe when you least expect it.

Pennyplant

[Plucky]

I will not discount the value of being heard, but I came out of each of those relationships feeling as if the counsellor simply believed I would figure it out on my own, somehow.  While each of them touched me in meaningful ways, I always felt that client/therapist wall that prevented me from feeling the love I need to feel along with being heard and cared about.  I just have never felt truly supported by people I can give nothing to (therapists I have to pay in order for them to listen to me).

Hello Dragonsamm,
I can sympathise with your empty feeling.  It is very hard to feel this way.  It almost feels better to experience rage or guilt, or anything to fill in the emptiness.  However, please take the time to fill it in with something good and healthy.

I want to comment on your feeling about therapists.  A good therapist is someone who has devoted much of his/her life to the pursuit of helping people who need them.  They are human and care about some patients and others they do not care for.  If you had a good relationship with the therapist, chances are you were among the ones he/she cared for.

The therapist does not know how much is inside you that has to get out before you can start your healing.   It would be a mistake to suggest a solution, putting on a band-aid before you cut out all the rot.   You yourself may not know how deep the well goes.

Also, consider that the therapist has to preserve his or her ability to be there for you.  Any feeling person will be affected by the awful stories people who seek help have to tell.  They are all disturbing, and I could not imagine listening to that all day for years on end.    If the therapist allows herself to be engulfed, she will not be there for you the next time.    Not immersing herself in your issues is not a sign that she does not care.  It is a method of self-preservation, and of preventing the therapist's own issues from becoming entertwined with yours.  Professional detachment is a good thing, even though it may feel cold to you.

By paying the therapist, you permit that person to have the education to asist you, and to devote the time.  It is not the same as paying a friend for friendship.

I hope you can benefit from the therapeutic relationship because it sounds as if you have had good ones.    The therapist is not there to love you, even if love feels like your primary need.  He is there to help you sort things out, so that you can find, recognise, experience, and give love in your life.

Plucky

[reallyME]

dragonsamm,

Although I am one of the most outspoken people on this message board, I'm going to do my best to be tactful and considerate of your feelings while still stating my points, views, etc....

you said:

but I came out of each of those relationships feeling as if the counsellor simply believed I would figure it out on my own, somehow.

This is basically what psychologists and psychiatrists, therapists are trained to do.  The only difference was, you "caught" them at it.  Usually the clients do not find out about what is actually being done with them, in such a setting, because most people who go to therapists, are there to just vent.  This is the God's honest truth.  Most people who are clients, just need a sounding board and someone to say "ohhhhhhhh, I see.  Ok, mmhmmm" until the client figures out the answers to their own problems.  Therapists are strong warned NOT to give answers to their counselees as a matter of fact.  They are not there to give you answers, be relied upon for complete direction, nor to become the next codependent relationship in client's lives...they are very guarded against it.

Sooooooooo, that being said, your statement above was exactly correct.  They expect you to "talk" yourself back to sanity and wholeness.  The only exception to this rule that I know of, is maybe cognitive therapy, where your actions are recorded and the therapist suggests new behaviors to follow in order to bring about a better outcome for the client.

As far as things being hopeless for you, I believe having a relationship with and giving one's life to Jesus is the only answer for heartache, abuse, pain of any kind.

~Laura

[Stormchild]

apologies samm, have sprained my hand, cant type very long. it looks as tho many other folks weighed in, in the meantime, to let you know that you're not alone in feeling what you feel... abuse is very isolating and its aftermath is also; it's hard not to be paralyzed by the shame and dread and worst of all the sense of hopelessness.

it isn't hopeless now. i hope the light will dawn for you soon, and the day will be bright and warm...

[Hopalong]

Demian,
Such a deep Yes to this:

It gets better. Truly. You don't have to believe it. You just need to go through it in the cadence that is yours.

AND healing not being linear, and Tich Nat Hahn (I love him) and so much else. Sometime, on another thread, I'd be grateful to read how you learned to "sit." Anxiety bedevils me when I try to meditate, so any tips would be wonderful. Or I could stop being lazy and go read him again.Thank you for this, your whole post.

PB:

I have to become that person for which I seek.  It is difficult - probably the most difficult challenge I've ever faced in my life.  But it is so crucial for me to find this strength in order to "thrive."

Me too. Completely and totally me too.

PennyP, I feel lucky to be here too...these are gifts.
And Jac, ditto every word.

Well put, RM!

They are not there to give you answers, be relied upon for complete direction, nor to become the next codependent relationship

And along the same lines, bingo, Plucky:

The therapist is not there to love you, even if love feels like your primary need.

Dragaonsamm, like Storm...I do understand how paralysing shame is. I think more even than fear.

And I am very glad you have "Dragon" in your name.

Hops

[Gaining Strength]

Dragonsamm and all in this thread -
Your words are so thought provoking.  Dragonsamm, I am 48 have had all the blessings that should have permitted me to live a full and fulfilling life but my experience has been anything but fulfilling.  I have no money, a house that is almost falling down around me, have no friends, family that (at best) offers no support, have a 5 year old who is the love of my life but is certainly dependent on me, not good work history and I could go on and on.  I have been trying to get at the source of my "dysfunction" for over 20 years but I have not given up.

I believe, (and am acting on this belief) that I can transcend this darkness and get to the place, to the life I once envisioned.  I have been reading about brain and mind and have received the concepts of moving toward living on a plain of higher energy.  Thich Nhat Hanh writes in "Understaning our Mind" about nuturing the seeds in our consciousness that we want to grow.  In part, I am going to nuture those seeds that tell me, against all odds, that I have broken through the walls of paralysis - that I have a job, that I have friends, that I have a nurturing home and on and on.  His teachings along with Wayne Dyar's in "The Power of Intention" fit neatly with my Christian philosophy.  They provide me with tools to fight the oppression of the shaming binds that were put on me by my FOO.  I could not free myself from these shackles because I felt bound to my parents and brothers out of loyalty but also I wanted to BELONG.  I wanted that life that I grew up in but also more significantly I NEEDED to connect to those people who were my very life source.  The annihilation of my very being began perhaps at birth and has been so incidious perhaps in part because it was not conscious and was not necessarily spoken.  I have had to name everything for myself and in my youth, up until recently, when I have tried to elicit validation from friends, family even therapists, I have fallen short.

When you wrote about your struggles with therapists waiting for you to solve your own problems I identified with that.  I love my therapist but I have really needed more.  When I came upon th concept of NPD via the internet I asked him what he thought.  He agreed but his agreement was lackluster enough for me not to feel reassured.  Well that's the crux of the matter.  Growing up in a family that not only did not nurture but took any and every opportunity to belittle and besmirch me I need more that a nod in order to integrate anything that contradicts my families accepted order.  I would have like or my therapist to do a Tom Cruise and jump up on the sofa and shout.  Even today, when I am knocking on my own wall of paralyzing shame and getting no nudge I will not let go of my belief that when I convert this low energy shame to high energy something, then these fetters will be loosed.   But I am retraining my brain to operate on a new energy level and it will take practise.

There is a marvelous book, "The Mind and The Brain" by a psychiatrist who specializes in OCD.  In this book the author focuses on the neuroplasticity of the brain to help OCD by first identifying the obsessive thought as "a misfiring of the brain".  And then he works to create a means to get that brain to fire correctly.  This book and th other books mentioned above among others are pointing to the same thing.  I believe it and I know that I can apply it.

Perhaps the turning point came for me in several months ago when I was reading something on the internet about Narcissistic behavior and in addition to my father I saw myself.  And in a flash I knew what had caused me so much struggle in recent years with friends and store clerks, bank tellers, etc.  For a moment, in a panic, I feared that I too might be Narcissistic but then I realized my behavior was simply mirroring what I have received.  Looking back, it is no surprise that I have lived on a low level energy plain - frustrated about the way things are, unable to see how I ended up where I have, unable to discern the difference between me and those I grew up with, unable to understand where I went wrong, and once life went wrong I was unable to see why I couldn't get back on track.  Well first of all, I never was on track and second of all - my heavens - no wonder I lived in such depression - it was all I or my family had ever lived even though, as a child, we had everything you could ever want - materially, socially, educationally - everything: everything except love and support and encouragement.  Everything except those wonderful high energy emotions.  So now my work for myself, my son and the world around me is to convert all of my depression, all of my fear, all of my doubts to hope and prosperity and fullness of life.  And I am going to do it step by step and to the extent available I will receive any encourage offered here and anywhere else. 

Dragonsamm - take this journey with me.  Convert your doubts and fears by focusing on them with love.  Open those recesses of your memories and love that child desparate for encouragement and hope.  Pour love on her, conjure in your mind the perfect parents and let them love her and stand betgween her and your real parents.  I do that, and it helps.  It is slower than I would like but I will not let that deter me.  Will you walk with me Dragonsamm?

Your in love - come with me, I'm - Gaining Strength

[dragonsamm]

               Hey, everyone!

               Can't tell you how much you have all moved me.  I feel so overwhelmed by compassion and understanding that i had to take a few days off and let it all sink in.  So many wonderful, touching, beautiful words of encouragement, and more, I am stunned!
One of my favorite authors is Thomas Moore (of Care of the Soul fame).  His low-key approach is appealing to me, amidst my headless chicken-speed demon tendencies.  Among other writers i am familiar with, I have learned the truth of searching within to find those apparently external things I believe I need.  "If I do not go within, I go without" is a favorite quote of mine (I don't know the author).   Unfortunately, putting it into practice has more often than not resulted in going into my head, not my heart.  My head knows infinitely more than my heart can feel.  But one of my deepest issues is in not trusting myself in matters of the heart.  Without a trusted guide, I CAN GO NOWHERE near those heart issues.  Every self-help book I have read has a bookmark somewhere in the last quarter where I stopped reading, put the book down and never went back.  Even with the aid of exercises (which I did faithfully, Dr Phil), there comes a place in every one of these books where I simply CANNOT move any farther.  No amount of desire, determination, or dreaming will carry me through that wall.  It is as real and solid as granite.  I cannot do it alone.    And the frustration of that inability is more than defeating.  It is devastating. 
           I have sought counselling and never found anyone who could address this issue.  My friends and family simply don't get it.  Begins to feel very isolating and maybe, just maybe, I'm simply crazy.  I appreciate DreamSinger's words:
  Even when we don't believe in our dreams, they believe in us. It's like the song that finds the singer and the poem the writer        
     That feels so encouraging!! As if I don't have to prove I'm either sane or incapable of movement.  However, the act of being unable to move is, in itself--discouraging.  Draining. 
     Another quote I believe is:  "When the student is ready, the teacher will come"  some Zen-type of writer, I believe.  I really do believe it, but I feel I've been waiting a very long time, working overtime even, with so little assistance from the Universe.  I know I can only do what i know to do, that things will change in their own time.  But after so many many years of attempting to understand, accept, be still, do what i can, etc, I'm feeling very much neglected and forgotten by the Powers that Be.  Maybe it's part of growing up in the environment I did that I feel ignored by universe as proof of my being 'undeserving" of what I seek.  I know cognitively that deservedness has no place in this argument.  But old heart beliefs die slowly.....
      I think that if i were to pinpoint my biggest trouble, it is the disconnect between the cognitive and the felt.  The head and the heart.  So difficult to explain. 
         I cannot begin to tell everyone of you each and every way your responses have touched me.  That would be a week-long job in and of itself.  All I can say is
THANKS!!

And a million hugs to all of you!!

     

            ~~Dragonsamm~~
ps--tell me why you like my name, Hops!  ?

[Gaining Strength]

Hey Dragonsamm - glad to see you!!!

"When the student is ready, the teacher will come" [/i

Listen, I've been looking and waiting for many, many years too.  But I think the teacher has been there and I was unable to see.  Presently, it is very clear to me that the teacher has come in the guise of a couple of very good books and in this forum.  In the past I would have been looking only for a bigger than life person who would take me under his or her wing.  I was looking in the wrong place.

About not being able to finish any of the helpful books.  I get it.  In my case it is a matter of being overwhelmed. Though exactly what is behind the sense of being overwhelmed is not yet fully available to me.  But I understand what you are talking about.

Glad to see you back. - Gaiining Strength

[moonlight52]

Hi Dragonsamm ,

Years of sadness I well understand.
It is so hard to let go of  the shame the sadness the wishing this or that  had not happened.

The only way I have found is having compassion for self.The head is too think a dee think and finding
ones heart and giving self compassion is a way that helped me feel better about the world.

If I had the words to take away your sadness I would.All I know is it does get better.
And you are here with all the people on this site wishing you kindness and together we can find our way.
"Even when we don't believe in our dreams they believe in us"
           by Dreamsinger that just takes my breath away.
Love to you,

Moonlight

[Certain Hope]

Dear Dragonsamm,

  Unfortunately, putting it into practice has more often than not resulted in going into my head, not my heart.
           My head knows infinitely more than my heart can feel.

I am this way. I think that if my heart felt it all at once, it could not survive. Small, steady realizations at that level are all I can take.


No amount of desire, determination, or dreaming will carry me through that wall.  It is as real and solid as granite.  I cannot do it alone.    And the frustration of that inability is more than defeating.  It is devastating. 

Upon first reading this, I thought... well, what is missing is the WILL to break down that wall and no one else can give us that will. But the will grows out of a hope for something better, I think? And hope is a very frightening entity when there's been so much disappointment. All things considered, this sounds like pure, unadulterated fear to me, and the only remedy I know for that is love.

My friends and family simply don't get it.    My theory is that people are afraid to "get it" because then it might "get" them.

I would like to assure you that neither your existence nor your suffering have escaped the notice of the Power that Is.
Grace is not cheap, it's free. One thing I've discovered is that in all my years of reaching and grasping, all I ever had to do was open my clenched fists and receive.

With Love,
Hope

[Hopalong]

Hi Dragonsamm,
Because who but someone with a glowing center, a persistent fire for life, would name herself Dragon?

You might be sleeping, tired, battle weary, camoflauged in the woods as a big lump of leaf cover.

But one day, you're going to gather your strength from all the many amazing dreams that dragons can have, and you'll get to your feet and wander on into the woods. You won't worry about whether it's dark, because your dragon instinct is taking over. You'll keep going, step by step.

And you'll reach the edge and you'll see the high blue sky and the gorgeous sunlight and scudding clouds, and sweet breezes will be blowing toward you across a green meadow, and you'll see a high-running stream flashing down below, and birds will swoop around your head unafraid (because they know)...

And you'll let loose a wonderful fire-throwing shout that might look like a roar, but it's really just how dragons say "I'm alive!"

That's why.

Hops

[dragonsamm]

       
        OMG, Hops!

        That was just Awesome!!..
          Thank you SOOOO much!
          I am framing that letter.  I want it to be within view all the time.
        what wonderful inspiration!

           Thank you for such a gift as this!

           ~dragonsamm~

     p.s. fyi, the tagline on my email for the past few years has been a line from my favorite song .  it seems quite appropriate here:
           
          "...a soul in tension that's learning to fly. Condition: grounded, but determined to try..." --Pink Floyd


         

[Bones]

Thank you, all who responded (to my surprise, I must say).  I really didn't expect much of a response, especially so quickly.  It brought tears to my eyes, really.  I have spent so many years trying to figure out why I've been unable to have the life I believe in, I might have begun to think it was all a fantasy.  But I hear the care and understanding in the responses I got, I just don't have a clue what might be possible....
I am 50 years old, tired of life.  I gave birth to 3 beautiful, intelligent children, and I have several brothers and friends that I know care about me.  But there has always been a hole in my soul that I cannot fill.  I know cognitively how valuable every soul in the universe is...but there is still a voice inside that tells me..."except  me".  I have been through enough relationships with men that failed at every turn that i have no hope of finding anyone who can even come close to being what I need in a healthy relationship.  Or hope that i could be what I need to be within that kind of framework.  At the same time, I feel extremely lonely, and know that solitude, while necessary for my soul, is quickly toxic to me when it goes on too long.
My financial situation is dire, with very little hope of change.
I know that Dr Phil would tell me to just get up and move, and something will change.  But I've been waiting, trying, reading, listening, praying, crying, writing, talking, for more than 10 years with no improvement.  I'm just tired of the fight.
I'm told I have an IQ of 131.  What good does it do to be intelligent if one cannot make sense out of one's life?
I have read MANY books by authors such as Neale Donald Walsch, Thomas Moore, Dr Wayne Dyer, Deepak Chopra, M Scott Peck, Ken Wilber, Dr Phil, John Bradshaw, Gary Zukav, Clarissa Estes, Caroline Myss, etc, etc, etc.  Every one of them took me to the same place in my heart and soul and dropped me like a rock.   I cannot make sense out of an apparently pointless struggle.
I cannot give up, I already know too much.  I cannot keep crawling, I'm too tired.
What now??
Just numb myself the best I can, and keep moving.  Until a moment arrives when it is all too much and i cry myself to sleep, so I can get up in the morning and do it all again.
My kids are the only things that keep me going.  Their father abandoned them, i cannot do that to them, too.  They deserve at least one parent who cares about them.  I try to be what i can be for them.  It's all i seem to have.
I love music.  I am a lyric-head, can recite the lyrics to nearly any 70's tune you can name.  Love Justin Hayward.  He is my angel voice, telling me
                    "Don't you know that it's not too late, the time's not past...And    even though I tell myself, all is lost, somewhere there's a spark of hope.... somehow, the world keeps turning, promising a better day, somewhere the  spark is burning away..."
                 from "It's Not Too Late", LP: The View From the Hill

I don't always believe him, but it's nice to hear..............


But one cannot live on another's music.  It's all just part of the fantasy.
Thanks for listening.....i needed that!!
Smile

Hi, dragonsamm.

Like you, I am in a similar boat today so you are not alone.

Bones

[Hopalong]

Dragonsamm,
You are so welcome. (And I so believe how I described you.)

Hi Bones,
Now I know you're going to make it. (You just reached out to somebody else who's hurting too.)

A peaceful sleep and fresh dreams to both of you.

Keep on breathing, keep eating, sleeping, walking, talking, getting support...

'night,
Hops

[dragonsamm]

     teartracks, hops,write,and all who have responded to me,

      I so appreciate being 'heard'.  So many people here have spoken to me on a level i never really knew existed.  In my life I heard so many i know what you mean, but you gotta get over it responses that it becomes easy to believe that there is something wrong with me because i seem to feel things no one else understands. (or has patience for) 
      And I think you can understand my reluctance to jump on the bandwagon of hope any time soon.  I hear you words of hope and encouragement and desperately want to believe your words.  I once had those beliefs and hope myself.  But that is not my reality now.  It hurts too much to even hope anymore.  I feel like hope has been a cruel joke for 99% of my life.  It was never more than a fantasy, what kind of miracle would it take to make me believe NOW??  All I can do is maintain.  Barely. 
      One of the great ironies is that I may very well be turning my back on every possible opportunity.  Well, I've tried it every other way I could think of, to no avail .  I give up.  I've recently realized that I am extremely terrified.  My life has no purpose beyond its own survival.  I have no prospects for improvement and no hope for any. I am at the mercy of whatever has more power than I.
        All the encouragement I have received here is bouyancy to keep me from drowning.  I appreciate it greatly.  But I fear I am wasting your time and you, too, will walk away sooner or later.  Because my attitude is probably toxic.  I apologize.  I'm just trying to be honest.

        Thanks for your ears and hearts   

      ~dragonsamm~