Why Does Boundary Setting Feel so Traumatic

[Overcomer]

Kinda.................I am not going to the therapist other than my mom suggested it and I said I would.  But I also told her I wasn't going to go with her at first because I didn't want the T to think we were going to fix me.  I told her I didn't think I was the one with the problem.  I went yesterday and my emotions have run the gament.  I felt pretty good after being with just him and me - you know, the cure the inner child thing..............I felt pretty good all week.  Then we went yesterday and I have replayed the session over and over in my mind.  In fact, I was wide awake at 1:45 this morning mulling it over in my mind.  I realized that my nmom is a master at "looking good."  We were always a family where "appearance management" was in place.  I never felt good about this and maybe I always acted like someone from a completely different family - a lot of times I would present myself as someone from a pretty ordinary family - and my mom was loaded.  But no one knew that because my mom never got involved in my affairs so none of my friends really knew her.  Oh, some people knew I lived in the nicest area of town but those that did always commented on the fact that I didn't act like a rich kid.

Anyway, I will never change that woman and I know it.  My intent is always to have someone hear me.  This didn't work with the T and we don't have another session booked.  We pretty much came to the conclusion that we were at an impass at work and there was nothing that could be done to change our stalemate.  No, Plucky, I'm not trying to change my mom (I mean, I have tried but it is such an exercise in futility................don't know why I have been banging my head against a brick wall for so many years....)  I think I have finally decided that the fight (that no one can win) is just not worth doing..........so I choose to continue to hope and pray that somehow God is in control and He will turn things around..............I just have to believe that.  Otherwise, I just wouldn't have any HOPE!!  And that seems to be what we all need - some hope!!!

[Overcomer]

Oh, and Beth.........................I don't think my h can go without drinking.  So everyone, I guess I am just going to have to wait until he can go no longer and then deal with him drunk again.  I just cannot see him quitting from this day forward and never drinking again.  In fact, he didn't have to work today and he told me his whole itinerary - and then he said he wasn't going to "you know what."  And what that said to me is that he had to rehearse all that because afterall, it's Thursday and his weekends always start on Thursdays.  He doesn't have to work tomorrow so we'll see if he drinks after his meeting tonight.....................

And Journey?  They are good but I will never love them!

[gratitude28]

Kelly,
Perhaps he will get "Sick and tired of being sick and tired." Another ism we have is that you get to a point where you can't live with alcohol and you can't live without it.
The main point is that you understand it has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU.
He will go on as he wishes and you will make the decision about what is best for YOU.
I can't stand Journey either and my dorky husband loves it. In fact, I hate about 80% of the music he likes. Bleeccchhh.
Love, Beth

[Overcomer]

Well h is home today and so far I haven't seen any sign of drinking - wonder what he'll do later on when I go to a football game with my daughter's boyfriend.  Journey - real good band but his obsession is annoying.  He just doesn't have that artistic thing going on.  You know, being able to enjoy new stuff and old stuff..............stuck in the past.  Then I was watching a television preacher today and he said something like "when people take out their frustrations from a former relationship on you....."  sounds like my husband!

[Plucky]

Hi Kelly,
Your mother set you up.    She got a therapist who is clueless about her kind, she told her story first, and you were able to get something out of the session but ultimately, she stabbed you in the heart again.

However, this is only what you would expect from such a woman.  I think therapy could be good for you, you seem so able to change in a positive way and you have such strength and energy.   Just not one that your mother selected and indoctrinated.

Plucky

[Overcomer]

Plucky:  She DID set me up.  When she went to the therapist (first) she had all the documentation and rationalization for my immediate frustrations.  He DID talk in terms of what my mother told him - yes, I was up all night night before last reliving the frustation of it all.  However, what I don't think she anticipated is that I let that be a drop in the bucket and globalized it.  I told him it wasn't about the last couple of months - it was about the last 12 years!!  Not a day went by during the WHOLE time we have had the store that I wasn't planning my exit!!!  (If you have seen the movie, The Count of Monte Cristo - with Jim Cavaziel - he was in that prison for 12 years, too.....)  Hey, maybe I'll be like the Countess of Monte Cristo and finally get to settle all my scores!!!

Anyway, stab me in the heart???  Well, not exactly.  It doesn't affect me that way anymore.  What it does is confirm how I feel and further my drive to get out.  You all have commented on my determination and resolve - it's there.  I am hellbent to move forward - whether it's my side business or if we sell and the new owners hire me....................anything to get out from under my mom.  She truly is the sand in the machine - everything she does just complicates everything else.  She slows down every process.............

Anyway..................she is pretty good at shining a light on me - declaring me whatever - and looking great.  Isn't that what Ns are all about? 

[penelope]

hi S + S,

right on!  the thing that I've been trying to figure out is...why is it necessary to blame someone All the Time?  It's crazy, nuts.  The person who is to blame isn't the looney one, it's that guy (or woman) pointing the finger all the time..they need to get a life!

hugs,
p bean 

[Overcomer]

p bean:  Didn't get that one?  Were you saying it was us poor victims who are to blame?  Or the N who tries to make us crazy?  Because in my case, it is probably my reactions to the insanity that exacerbate the problem and make it unnerving...how was that for trying to use big words?  What I mean to say is I react to her crazy making which ultimately makes me look crazy!

[Hopalong]

Hi Kelly,
You've only had 1 or 2 sessions with this T, right? Hope you'll give it a little more time.

And I hate to be subersive (no I don't  ) but what would be wrong with saying, quietly and firmly to the T:

I believe what I have been trying to cope with is narcissism, and I hope that you are well-read on it.

Just plant the seed?

Hops

[Overcomer]

Hops:  You see, I emailed the T and told him I thought my mom was a narcissist.  Then I sent him one of the links I found here which outlined N characteristics.  I did this BEFORE my mom came in.  I didn't use the term N in front of my mom but I did say things like she is "self absorbed......."  I told him that she had the Princess Diana syndrome and that she needed the accolades and attention.........so we are not going back.  He said, "If you feel that you need to come back then do.........."  We both said we didn't.  Because we are at an impasse.  Neither one of us had a heated thing to say during the session together.  We both see things from our perspective and neither one of us is going to budge.  Now let me tell you - THAT is major growth for me, because there was a time that I basically did whatever she told me to do - but I felt like a puppet and I just hated the way I felt around her.  So even though I am in prison, I have made so much progress!!  No, no more therapy.  Al-anon will keep me accountable to people and help me to keep my resolve!!!  And you guys can keep putting me into my place when you see me spinning out of control!!  Please do!!

[Hopalong]

Sorry, Kelly, I forgot that you'd already told him that.
Well, it's a shame there was no spark of help or hope there, but you sound okay about your support.

Sending more...

Hops

[penelope]

hi kelly,

sorry, that was confusing.  I meant that N's like to point the blaming finger all the time, lots of relatives are ready to jump on the bandwagon of hating the person that finger gets pointed at (the scapegoat), but really, it's the guy (or gal), the N, who's doing all the pointing that needs to get their head examined! 

I am now very skeptical of someone pointing a finger at anyone (myself included).  I always like to examine all the possible motives.  Only after I can find none is it possible for me to say, OK, I'll take a look at this person you want to blame....

I have found myself become a whole lot more forgiving of people, since I learned about N.  Before, since I was raised with Ns, I thought it was normal to just go around blaming people for all sorts of things, such as:  (said in a whispered voice)  I think that woman is depressed.   or  That guy is probably an alcoholic.   or that kid is just a bad seed.   etc

Now I'm finding I have a strong aversion to finger pointing.  I just don't see how it's necessary to get through life.  Typically those pointing fingers (not us, we're pointing out our Ns and coming to self-realization, which is different) are doing so to shift the blame and shame they have, their deep pain, onto others.  Only when we realize where pain comes from, and learn not to transfer it, can we become whole.

I'm sorry to hear your T experience went so poorly...but then, I'm not surprised.  There are some really bad T's out there.  Some just clueless.  I was lucky to have found a really great T who understands N, recently.  I emailed her initially with the request: I would like to find a T who can help me divorce my N parents.  So that sort of set the precedence.  I didn't feel like it was necessary for her to meet my Mom, as I'd already made this decision.  She is 100% on my side, for me..the other T I saw with my Mom, always felt like a conflict of interest or something with that one.  I could never tell who he was pulling for.  I find it is probably impossible to remain neutral in this case.  Your T's job is to support you, to nurture you, and to become a soft place to fall.  I just don't see how they could do that if they were in contact with N.  Typically, in my case, I've felt anyone sympathetic to my Ns just didn't understand.

hugs,
p bean

[Hopalong]

You were lucky and smart, PB.
I just meant with Kelly that a T can't instantly sympathize with an N if you go in WITH the N.
S/he's got to maintain an appearance of neutrality for quite a few sessions and then deal with the N isssues gradually.

If you go in with an N, and the T says, well you're the N so you're the problem and you have a usually incurable personality disorder, so I won't listen to anything you say and she (the other person) is right about everything and I'm on HER side...it won't get anywhere.

Reminds me of a friend who's got her adult son in therapy and he said to his mom, I don't like the long silences, he just doesn't say anything, and she's ready to call up the T and say, better start talking more, my son's getting bored....after 2 sessions.

Anyway, it's differnt for every person and every situation, that's for sure.

Hops

[Overcomer]

You said it.  This T is between a rock and a hard place.  We both know what the problem is and he couldn't really take sides.  He was trying to be VERY neutral.  You know, "how about you clearly define what is each of your position, what decisions you get to make and then stay within those confines.........."  Well, I said NO.  She will not stay within boundaries.  As long as she gets to do what she wants and I have to do whatever she wants - only then will she be happy.  But guess what?  I will not be happy......................I'm not happy and I won't be happy..........................so - again - it is a stalemate.

So here is my strategy.  I have decided to be very nice.  Too nice.  I just need to be a "delightful" person (to use a term she used about our conversations last week.................)  DELIGHTFUL.  Just pretend that I am on prozac and there is nothing that can set me off.  Smile sweetly.  Go about my business.  Why?  Because as long as she sees me as stable, she will be more apt to sell the business or make my life bearable.  If I start to argue my point and dig in my heels with resolve, she'll counter that with her stubbornness and I will get no where.  So while we are in this period of time, I choose to be a yes person and wait it out for awhile................and pray a lot!

[penelope]

hey kelly,

that is the way to deal with an N    you've been doing your research, I see.

I hope this small amount of suffering, giving the N what they want, pays off for you.

hugs,
p bean

p.s. Your prozac comment reminding me of a funny joke: In the 60's people took LSD to feel weird.  Now we take Prozac to feel normal.