Author Topic: More work on shame  (Read 12436 times)

debkor

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2008, 12:17:07 AM »
THE BURDENS OF SHAME

Shame-bound persons, believing themselves to be seriously flawed, without worth, and hardly belonging in the world inevitably have the consequences of their shame-consciousness show up very negatively in many areas of their life:

At the core of the shame-bound person is a failure of self-esteem. As one feels dishonored and without belonging, then feeling good about oneself, feeling confident in one's abilities is inevitably lost. With one's boundaries mushy and one's sense of oneself as "flawed," one hardly has a self at all, let alone one to feel high regard for. "Shaming" a person makes him as low as he can go. For a person who has been shamed has no way out, his is the feeling of there being nothing he can do to set things right. Something vague, but decisive, has shrunk his soul.

The shame-bound person may become either an offender or a victim, or, as is most likely, one who vacillates from one mode to the other. If his experiences cause him to access his shame, he may take out his hurt and rage on others weaker than himself in his present community of family and friends. For another person whose defense is less aggressive, if she is re-shamed, she may fall into her accustomed role of victim, as she is naturally adept in this guise, having been an actual victim in her original family. Having learned to make a "virtue" of necessity, she has mastered playing the victim for what consolation rewards there are--some sympathy, some self-righteousness. For the offender there is some momentary sense of revenge and power, for the victim, a brief touch with martyrdom--and beyond these meager compensations, the despair of impotence and participation in the continuing of the cycle of shame. The shame of the parents becomes the shame of the children, and so on...

The shame-bound person has difficulty with intimate relationships.

Feeling so bad about herself, she does not wish another to know her, expecting for sure that he will see what a shameful creature she is. So she puts up a false front, she pretends and postures and does all the things she believes others will be impressed by, but she can never do that which is the essence of intimacy, reveal herself to another in open risk taking.

Depression often possesses the shame-bound person. Depression is the stuck place between anger and grief. The person who feels no sense of self-worth will not know how to get angry, for that would be too much aggression for him who was brought up with such a fragmented sense of being entitled to respect. On the other hand, the shame-possessed person cannot grieve, for it was much too disappointing and painful to dare to believe that he could be genuinely important to another, or vice versa. Depression is marked by alienation and no real opportunity to bring things back together. At the center of depression is the sense of loss, and the shame-bound person carries the greatest loss of all, the loss of a valued self. The loss is made more difficult to emerge from as one recognizes that he is only partially aware of the dimension of his loss, having been deprived of the experience of and the model for respectful caring and nurturing.

The shame-bound person is controlling, rigid, and perfectionistic.

She has had to compensate for having not felt a sense of love. Her experience of "love" is the opposite of the highly touted, idealized concept of "unconditional love". Shame comes from all "love" being conditional. Which, of course means that the love is never complete, never a comment on the person as she is, but as she pleases her parents by satisfying their expectations and demands. So she attempts to put life in "perfect" order to compensate for the chaos in the relationships of her heart. Not feeling the warmth of love, she needs desperately to control the world and is not able to tolerate deviation. In a loveless world, "doing things right" brings the only rewards she can attain. She lives very carefully, for a slip can cause her to lose her fragile hold on things.

The shame-bound person clings to his image, after all it is the most positive thing he has going for him. He believes that within he has no real self, that he is not loved, or respected, or needed, so he must make himself loveable, appear respectable, and create the illusion of being indispensable to others. He works hard at it. He lives by his false-self, often bouncing between an over- and under-inflated presentation of himself. He does not strive for self-fulfillment, only for self-image fulfillment.

The shame bound person is numb and/or spaced-out. Life is so painful as-it-is that she takes the way of self hypnosis, or enters a self-induced trance-state in order to make her experience bearable. She lives anesthetized, and feeling as little pain as possible. Of course, neither can she feel passion or pleasure.

HEALING SHAME

Shame is, indeed, pervasive and profound. It doesn't fix easily, for it is a condition of our psyche and our soul. But with courage, attention and plain hard work healing is possible. Here are some thoughts for healing your shame:

Let yourself learn, through and through, that your shame is not your fault. Most of your shame-inducing experiences happened to you early in your life--when you were small and the world of parents and other caretakers loomed very large. Your fundamental feelings of insignificance, the "shame" that goes far back in your mind and soul, appeared long before you had any "choices" in the matter. Shame was your natural organismic response to the burdens and demands that were being visited on you by your family. Believing that making you ashamed would motivate you to behave as they wished (The demands of a dysfunctional shame-bound family are irrational and inconsistent, for the family only knows it is unhappy and does not know what would make things better. The child becomes the scapegoat for the family's incompetency in solving its problems-in-living.), your parents intended you to feel shame about yourself for your "bad" behavior. Sometimes, they even rationalized that shaming you was "for your own good." However, what actually happened was that they only succeeded in making you feel bad about being yourself, for you did not possess what they were demanding as you had neither the power nor the talent to change yourself in order to enter into their good graces. But, being children, you could not grasp that your parents were the dysfunctional persons in the family; you knew of no one's failures but those attributed to you by the grown-ups. Your only "guidance" was that which helped you feel awful--shame--about yourself for failing to produce....I repeat, it was not your fault.

Face shame, experience it, incorporate it. As you are your memories, your history, your joys and your talents, you also are your experience of shame. There is no escaping any part of yourself, your shame experiences are in your neurons and your body cells. What you can learn is not to deny or finesse them, but to face them, own them, and incorporate them into yourself. After all, they are only painful memories, not imperious demons. They cannot hurt you again as they did before--though you may believe they can--for you are not vulnerable as you were when you were small. Some things have changed and one of them is the perspective and position you have as adults to confront and not be done-in by the shaming experiences the world offers you.

There is nothing shameful about shame. You have every right to yours. You earned it by surviving in the midst of shaming people. There is a great community of the shamed waiting to dare to trust others enough to be open and vulnerable. Sharing your shame with them will be a way of forming a strong and rejuvenating ties with others. Your sense of shame can be your channel of empathy and pathos to the hearts of others, and...it will help you laugh with the Woody Allen's, Roger Dangerfield's and Whoopie Goldberg's of the world as they help you own the universality of your shame and both cry and lighten-up a bit about it. There is no more powerful bond than that of shared shame transformed into a bond of understanding and mutual support for one another's healing.

Replace shame with mature guilt. Guilt has often received bad press, and well it should--if, and only if, you are talking about neurotic guilt--guilt that self-flagellates and changes nothing. If you are talking about mature guilt, then guilt is one of the great inventions of nature. For mature guilt lets you know what is unacceptable, and offers you opportunity to do something about it. Shame, on the other hand comes to you as a feeling so deep and so incapable of your getting a grasp on it that it seems there is nothing you can do. To illustrate: John feels shame that he is not the sort of person who can ever excel at his work. Whatever happens, a demotion, a "blowing-out" by his boss, he senses that this is because he is "basically inadequate," so he hangs his head and lowers his eyes and dampens his energy. Finding the "smarts" and the courage to re-evaluate himself as "guilty" of inertia and poor training, he begins to create and achieve goals that are possible for him. So if he sets certain standards, and then if he doesn't achieve them, he can rightly feel guilty that he is failing and can increase his efforts to succeed, or redefine his goals. He has moved into consciousness that his worth can be defined by realistic possibilities, not by the un-focused and "hidden" demands of shame-making expectations.

Make new parents. You must learn from experience that you are not unworthy of belonging to the human community and that in order to heal your shame you must create a healthy family for yourself. Think of an occasion when you have stood against those who would make you feel bad about yourself. Think of how you counted on the thought of a friend, or lover, or teacher whose opinion you could depend on to back you in your struggle. It made a difference. It made the crucial difference is keeping you going and anchoring the experience as a positive for you.

You must create a new family. Perhaps this sounds strange, but you are already doing it--clubs, churches, professional societies are efforts; lovers, friends, marriages are efforts; even cliques, cults, and gangs are efforts. The success or failure of your journey to heal your shame will be crucially influenced by your ability to surround yourself with those who think you are lovable, who support you, who back you up in the way you lead your life, who can convey to you that they are for you even when they don't like your behavior--and toward whom you can healthily reciprocate.



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So the work of healing your shame is as profound as are the potentials of your soul. It reaches down into the heart of your concept of yourself and of your belief in the possibilities of life, alone, and in the company of others. It causes you to re-examine in your own mind and heart an idea expressed in the "sentimental" motto of Father Flanagan of Boys Town: "There is no such thing as a bad boy." Can you make yourself a claimant of this "truth?" If you can, then you are on your way to discovering the freedom of surrendering your self-definition of having been a "bad", shame-deserving person. Perhaps you have been mistaken, insensitive, unethical, self-critical, scared, negligent, stupid, masochistic, depressed--behaviors and states of mind you can do something about. But never have you been "bad," never not belonging; always, you have been just an ordinary struggling person and, now with an expanding awareness, joining with others to make your inner and outer life work better, striving to extract from the day its possible satisfactions and nursing a lively curiosity about what's next.


I think my friend has become the offender and the victim. 

Love
Deb

debkor

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2008, 12:45:14 AM »
GS,

I'm sorry I did not read all the post and I see you have posted the same thing.  Can you say DUH to me (lol) 

Love
Deb

Hopalong

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2008, 02:51:52 AM »
Quote
Having a spiritual community (using the term more broadly than a church) where taking risks to talk, express our deepest feelings, and where people celebrate our beginnings of change (rather than waiting to see if we get it right) are all key to the process.
{Everybody says this but this is a real problem for me.  How in the world do you find a group of people who understand shame and yet who are not shaming.  I have never found or known of such a group.}

I have found this several times, GS...

A women's support group I was in for over 2 years. Shame was not always the specific subject, our lives were, but self-esteem was always touched on or addressed overtly...and that's shame's sister.

The UU church has many small groups I can be that honest in.

love
Hops
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Ami

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2008, 08:13:37 AM »
Dear GS,
 An  Al Anon saying is "If s/one calls you a chair, are you a chair?".
 I think that shame exists b/c our parents called us a "chair" and we believed it.
 Unless *I* define myself, I will be asking the outside to define me, by default.
  I will always be in a prison ,even if no one ever hurts me. The fear of being hurt and shamed will imprison me, even if it NEVER happens in real life.
  My life is always replaying the running from shame.
Last night, I had  a revelation about life.People will do and say what they will. It is not up to me to try to control or manage other people. "Normal" people don't do that.
 Normal people control their own ,little sphere of life, which is themselves.
 They don't try to manage other people's emotions and reactions so they can stay safe.
 I want to live life. Life includes all types of people and situations. I need to be able to face all types of situations and people. I have kept myself "safe" b/c I was afraid of shame.
 I was afraid of humiliation.
 Shame and humiliation CAN be controlled by ME, to the extent that I let them in OR shut them out. This is emotional health, I think.
 I can't control one thing that another person will do or say.
               Love   Ami

 
« Last Edit: April 08, 2008, 08:25:48 AM by Ami »
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

towrite

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2008, 11:27:13 AM »
GS, one thing my excellent therapist taught me was not to treat myself the same way my shaming NPs did. It has been very hard to identify my shame, when I was feeling it, etc., b/c they also threatened and belittled me not to remember it or to misremember it. But now I have some clues and, for me, it takes hard work to identify the shame at the time it comes up.

My hat's off to you.

(((((GS)))))

towrite
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                                  Socrates
Time wounds all heels.

Ami

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2008, 04:40:39 PM »
 When I was treated so terribly, it showed me how I was treated as a child. It shocked me and took me aback. How many times was I treated like that----thousands, hundreds of thousands?How many times have we ALL been treated like that? My NM  put  her shame on me b/c I was vulnerable.
 I think this must be what we all as LV(little voices) endured.
 I am still running away from shame,now, trying to avoid it.
 I do feel like I am "bad",but is it "bad' or human?
 That is the question that has the potential to set us free. Am I "bad" or  just human with an NM.
  I was convinced that any self care or personal power was "bad". Down deep, I still question,"Am I bad?", so that is why I am still vulnerable to shame attacks.
 *I* still believe I am bad and I will always be vulnerable to others as long as *I* resonate with them. When I don't ,they won't be able to hurt me ,anymore.
 I have been running away from shame, even when it was not "actively" pursuing me.
 I was running and will run until*I* turn off the button in me.        Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Ami

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2008, 04:54:45 PM »
I remember when I was younger, that I couldn't be shamed very much. I knew who I was and wasn't. I knew my bad qualities ,so if s/one pointed them out to me, it was not s/thing "new". I accepted that I had selfish traits.
 I did not feel I was bad, but human.
 Somewhere along the line, I thought I was "bad" and now I am open season for anyone's shame.
 It WILL come to all of us. We can't stop it. That is not the issue. The issue is our OWN shame.We hurt ourselves with our OWN shame, NOT s/one elses.
        Ami
« Last Edit: April 08, 2008, 05:06:59 PM by Ami »
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

seasons

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2008, 04:46:09 PM »
Gaining Strength,

Wow what a wonderful thread. So brutally honest. I need to reread each and every word. I have the chills all over.

((your awesome)) seasons
"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak Kindly. Leave the Rest to God."
Maya Angelou

Gaining Strength

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2008, 08:14:32 PM »
Wow I have so many people to address in this post.  I actually thought I had posted in response to Debkor.  I wonder what happened to that one?

I really like that whole article Debkor.  He really gets at some stuff in a perspective I have not seen before.  I found it very helpful.

Hops - I know you are right about a spiritual community.  I am very glad that your UU provides that.  The Episcopal chruches where I am tend to overlook single women and there is a judgementalism and social snobbery that is difficult to transcend.  I can look for a different type (non-church) spiritual community maybe.

Ami - that whole concept of self-definition is so important.  I feel as though I am beginning to do that.  Life will turn around when I no longer let others define me - even within or especially within my own mind.  When I can think - "That's not who I am."  Then I will have made it.

Phoenix Rising - I get it.  Caring first.  That is much easier.

ToWrite - my excellent therapist taught me was not to treat myself the same way my shaming NPs did.   OMG.  I am treating myself EXACTLY the way my NF did when I shame myself because it is HIS voice that I am shaming myself with.  OMG.  I need to memorize this line and apply it over and over.

Ami -  I was convinced that any self care or personal power was "bad". Now I get it.  For me "self care or personal power" meant that I was going to get some kind of sabotage and as a very young child that meant I felt threatened.  I wanted to connect to my father (the NPD who sabotaged me (I finally understood/acknowledged this year)) and so I gave up personal power and hope just to connect to him.  But of course I did not connect to him so I just gave up myself - Hello!

Seasons - Thanks.  So good to see you.  How in the world are you.

Today - good breakthrough today.  Was compelled to clean up my bedroom floor.  Compelled.  Been trying to do it for months and months.  Couldn't face it.  Today was compelled.  Saturday got pantry straightened up.  Been wanting to do that for months.  A few more days like this and I could be free.  Also got some work done on my business (frozen for a few weeks). 

In the past when I have gotten some work done I would get frozen out for a significant period.  This week the freeze out period was 4 days.  The shortest ever.  Wonder how long from today?   

Hopalong

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2008, 11:08:32 AM »
GS,
Oh yes, southern Episcopal churches...I know them well. And their dictates in southern society.

I have friends who love their ritual but not their gentrified assumptions and the snobbery of some members.

I wonder if it is specific theology that keeps you there?

Have you ever been to a Unity church? Feels consistent with your spirituality...as does Friends Meeting.

Anyway, dear, I hope you have Permission to Explore if you would like to.

love
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gaining Strength

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2008, 04:13:56 PM »
Still working on this issue.  Switching from authorities to my struggles.

Suddenly - after all this time - today I realized that part of my struggle is that when I start to work on something that has shamed me in the past then the old shame is triggered and it adds onto the old stuff making it bigger and bigger.  Each time I try to tackle something and fail it gets bigger.  And the old stuff resurfaces stronger and stronger than ever. 

I tackled a bunch of stuff today.  Thankful.  More, much, much more.  Keep working at it.

Gaining Strength

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2008, 04:20:33 PM »
Was having breakfast with my son today.  he asked me to cut up his pancakes.  I had this flash.  I felt trapped - I was being asked to cut up his pancake and no matter how I did it it was not going to be right.  This did not come from him.  It came from me.  It came from my past.  Not sure exactly where it came from but know it came from my past. 


Ami

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2008, 04:56:02 PM »
Dear GS,
 I  think looking at the pancake situation(and all our situations) is the way to heal. *I* am hurting, today, too.I am battling an old "issue". I think it is shame.
 GS,I have been really hurting for 4 days.  It  felt hopeless to see how my   NM treated me, over and over . I believed everything she told me.I took it all in and believed it. It is mind boggling to see.
 I saw the pattern and am just sitting on my rear end,  boggled .
 Now, I have an old pattern which returned .I thought I had conquered it,but it feels the same as before.
 My stomach started hurting me with all that was going on, on the board.
 Now, when I feel emotions, it hurts me.
 I am trying to look at it and face it. I am embarrassed to even write about it,but I must(right ,James lol)
  Yesterday, I was talking to my friend and my stomach really started hurting. I am AFRAID to be seen, afraid to be hurt, afraid of anger, afraid of not being liked,on and on.
 My stomach just hurts and hurts.
 Today, I was talking to s/one else and the same thing happened. In fact, it happened twice.
 All my old fears just seem to be expressed through stomach aches.
 I really need to face my problems b/c I got too thin ,from these and I don't want to go there, again.
 I think I feel like I don't want to be SEEN, KNOWN. This must be shame.
 I feel like I can't protect myself. I feel like I have to give myself up to make sure no one gets angry.
 I must be replaying my M ,over and over with everyone and in most situations.
 I feel kind of stuck in a pattern that I thought was better. Now,it is back.
 I am discouraged b/c I am playing my emotions ,in my body.
 Any help would be appreciated.    Love    Ami

 PS  I was so shamed and felt I was so bad that I felt I did not deserve to eat . I feel so stupid saying this but I always tell James to be honest, so I must take my own medicine(lol). Just putting things out there does help. 

« Last Edit: April 12, 2008, 05:42:26 PM by Ami »
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

ann3

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2008, 06:13:19 PM »
Hi GS & Ami,

I had similar experiences today and as I think about it, everyday.

When I shame myself for failing to overcome past shame or when I down myself because I feel like I keep revisiting and can't let go of old wounds, I remind myself of the following:

We lived for so long, probably our entire lives,  with these shame(s) and wounds.  Although we are now starting to see them and work on them, it's really unlikely that we will be able to "fix" ourselves right away.  It will probably take years to face the shame(s) and wounds, work through them,process them and hopefully let them go.  

For the last 6 months, I've been working on issues about my father and today, I finally was able to put my feelings into sentences.  The shame he made me feel because I didn't read enough books, implying I was stupid (in reality, I was dyslexic and had trouble reading), the shame he made me feel because I was chubby ("there's no fat people in our family", the implication being that if I am fat, I can't be part of the family). These are just a few things. It's hard.  

I wish I was finished with this stuff, but my reservoir of shame and wounds is deep.  I've got a long way to go before I work through all the negative messages he dumped on me and let it all go.

In the mean time, I'm trying to live in the present as best I can and realize that the shame and wounds were dumped on me and I didn't deserve them.  Even still, I feel angry.  But, I guess whatever I feel is a natural consequence of doing this work.  And I'd rather do this work then not do it, even though at times, it makes me feel so down.

ann3

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2008, 06:22:20 PM »
This did not come from him.  It came from me.  It came from my past.  Not sure exactly where it came from but know it came from my past. 

GS,

As mentioned, I am going through this with my father.  I also feel there's lots of things that come from the past and I'm not sure where they came from, working on pin pointing the source.  Today, I found the source:  my father.  Then I started remembering what it was he said and did that gave me those feelings.  Those feelings of shame and self doubt based on something Dad said to me when I was 10 years old; then the shame and self doubt take on a life of their own and live in our heads (negative tapes) and we don't know where the hell it came from.  Well, I finally tracked down one source:  judgmental stuff my father often said to me over & over.

As far as the pancakes, was it because you were chastised at the dinner table?  If yes, who said what to you?