My Truth

[Ami]

OH, I forgot something. I asked the Dependent girl how long she thought the golf game lasted and she asked her H. She told me 3 more hours.
 I went in my room cuz I needed a break.
 My H came and told me that I was looking anti social so I came out but by that time everyone was on the porch and the Dependent girl was telling an awful story. She can be morbid and there are party girls who don't like her and want s/one to tell her not to be so morbid. Anyway,she was telling a morbid story of s/one collapsing and the person had no family etc etc. The room was quiet and I could tell people were uncomfortable. This group mainly wants to forget about bad things and drink and laugh etc.
 

[Ami]

So, the group was on the porch talking and not watching golf . They did that for awhile. OH,part of my feeling so badly was I expressed opinions different than some people. I get really afraid of being "bad" or "weird" if I have or express a different opinion.
 One was that I would never want a boat cuz it was too much work. The other was I would never want a big wedding cuz it is too much work and worry about details.
 The Dependent girl could not believe what I said about the wedding. I hate fuss and formality. I would not do it if I had a choice.
  Anyway, the people left  before the golf game ended. I wondered if that was my fault. I felt that I was "bad" cuz of that. However, on the other hand what does it matter if *I* like golf. *I* didn;t kick anyone out.
 Anyway, I felt like I had failed. I felt really down. I couldn't describe why exactly but just that I was "bad'.

[Ami]

I feel embarrased how long this thing is going but I think it must be how we feel with NM"s---just "bad". Always running from "bad", having "bad" chase us,"having "bad "push us down on to the ground and sit on us until we give up and accept it.
 I was paralzed with "bad", enveloping me, encompassing me, hanging over me and I could not get out.

[Ami]

I felt this  sense of "bad", not acceptable, weird, neurotic. I just wanted to talk to my friend, Enlightened Witness, cuz I knew that he was the only  way I could climb out.
 When I did he knew exactly what was going on. We talked for an hour and I felt "human",not bad. I could see the distortions but I could not on my own. I was enveloped by the fog of "bad"(shame?) on my own. I could not get out.I
 I bet other people have that and that is why I am sharing.
 I started writing all this on the Board before I talked to my friend but then I erased it b/c I was still in it and hoped I could get out and then write.
 I will explain more about how I got out if anyone is interested. If not, that is OK and I will leave it here. Thanks for listening. Sorry if it was a hijack i.e my stealing your thread for my own topic.        Ami

[Gabben]

I think the  message from my NM was independence equals emotional death at her hands and abandonment and shunning from the family

Ami - I think the message from NM was that your feelings, the natural feelings that one has in any social setting where most are strangers or acquaintances, our instinctual protective reactions, were identified as a part of you and since we identify ourselves with our feelings which we have learned from NM were BAD, we will feel especially BAD and uncomfortable in our own skin when we are in social settings, we are social creatures with an instinct that tells us that we need human connection to survive, as children we do and as adults human warmth and friendship is a wonderful blessing; as a child I could not have survived without the bonding of others, even if that bonding was dysfunctional. As an adult I CAN survive without others, trust me I know, but if I want to LIVE not just survive, then I need others to live completely.

[Ami]

I think the  message from my NM was independence equals emotional death at her hands and abandonment and shunning from the family

Ami - I think the message from NM was that your feelings, the natural feelings that one has in any social setting where most are strangers or acquaintances, our instinctual protective reactions, were identified as a part of you and since we identify ourselves with our feelings which we have learned from NM were BAD, we will feel especially BAD and uncomfortable in our own skin when we are in social settings, we are social creatures with an instinct that tells us that we need human connection to survive, as children we do and as adults human warmth and friendship is a wonderful blessing; as a child I could not have survived without the bonding of others, even if that bonding was dysfunctional. As an adult I CAN survive without others, trust me I know, but if I want to LIVE not just survive, then I need others to live completely.

You are right. It WAS my feelings which were bad and STILL are. I am ashamed of my feelings is part of it. Thank you, Lise!!!!!   Ami

[Ami]

This shame is SO bad. I know you, Lise and Helen, too, as well as most of us on here, get that. It is SO destroying of everything. I can only now see the shape of it. I can touch it a little, look at it ,a little.
 It has shaped my life as a driving force since I was 14  and lost myself. I was not driven by shame before that. I had it ,for sure, but at 14 I gave my reality over to my NM. Then, I was almsot like in the zombie movies when the zombies suck out people's souls and inhabit
 them. I became inhabited by her and have stayed that way until now when I am starting, just starting, to see it.
        Ami

[ann3]

Hi Ami,

You gave a fantastic description of your Sunday:  the guests, your feelings, your H.

I have an idea, it's an experiment, hope you try it:

What I heard is that you are constantly tortured by your 'inner dialogue/monologue':  The NM tapes telling you you're bad, you don't deserve anything good, etc.  Then, you go into a anxious, panicky free fall of self doubt, where you, in your inner dialogue/monologue, question almost everything you think, desire, need, want to do & do.  IMO, this is a torturous way to live.

So, here's the experiment:  do not listen to your inner dialogue/monologue for 3 days.  Just do what you want to do (of course, you have to figure out what you want to do).  In other words, promise yourself that for 3 days you will banish your second guessing of yourself & your self doubt, you will NOT listen to the NM tapes, nor your inner dialogue/monologue.  You will just live in the moment with a quiet mind & not keep thinking, thinking, thinking. 

IMO, I think your biggest problem is that your second guessing of yourself & your self doubt trumps almost everything you do.  So, for 3 days, throw away your second guessing of yourself & your self doubt.  See how it feels to make a decision & not worry if it's the wrong decision.  So, what if the decision is wrong?  We, as humans, are allowed to make mistakes.

I think what's valuable about this is that you will excercize a 'muscle' that perhaps you haven't excersized in a long time, which is to live in the moment, free of self doubt, secure in your own skin.

What do you think?

xoxo,
ann

[Meh]

Thank you for sharing Ami.

The fact that you are noticing your feelings and thoughts during the party are a sign of self-awareness, I think that is positive in itself.
Your H sounded like he was the only person who wished to watch the Golf.

The fact is, we can't expect to get our way every time me assert ourselves. 
But if something is really important to us and our attempts at asserting ourselves are unmet, then we need to look elsewhere to get our needs met.

Amy, I'm not clear about your Husband and the Enlightened witness, and what is happening with your relationships between these people.
 
I think what I would do, is express to my husband that I wanted the opportunity to get a good, undistracted conversation going so that I could better get to know people and that the Television was merely a background distraction. 

It sounds like you and your enlightened witness are on the same page and "get" oneanother and that your H does not "get" you or respect that you are intently focused on learning how to get to know people.


Two phrases you wrote are "Being Human" and "Being in Fog".

I have felt and thought those things, these two phrases are powerful.

We don't even have to be in the presence of the Nar-person anymore because we built a little Nar-person in our head that comes with us everywhere.

[Ami]

Hi Ami,

You gave a fantastic description of your Sunday:  the guests, your feelings, your H.

I have an idea, it's an experiment, hope you try it:

What I heard is that you are constantly tortured by your 'inner dialogue/monologue':  The NM tapes telling you you're bad, you don't deserve anything good, etc.  Then, you go into a anxious, panicky free fall of self doubt, where you, in your inner dialogue/monologue, question almost everything you think, desire, need, want to do & do.  IMO, this is a torturous way to live.

So, here's the experiment:  do not listen to your inner dialogue/monologue for 3 days.  Just do what you want to do (of course, you have to figure out what you want to do).  In other words, promise yourself that for 3 days you will banish your second guessing of yourself & your self doubt, you will NOT listen to the NM tapes, nor your inner dialogue/monologue.  You will just live in the moment with a quiet mind & not keep thinking, thinking, thinking. 

IMO, I think your biggest problem is that your second guessing of yourself & your self doubt trumps almost everything you do.  So, for 3 days, throw away your second guessing of yourself & your self doubt.  See how it feels to make a decision & not worry if it's the wrong decision.  So, what if the decision is wrong?  We, as humans, are allowed to make mistakes.

I think what's valuable about this is that you will excercize a 'muscle' that perhaps you haven't excersized in a long time, which is to live in the moment, free of self doubt, secure in your own skin.

What do you think?

xoxo,
ann

Thank you, Ann. I felt funny telling all the detail but the "story behind the story" was what was important and you got that!
 I really need to share where I am in order to get to a better place. I need people who understand and have been there. I am not an island and I realize that need ,now.
     XXXOOO   Ami

[Ami]

Thank you for sharing Ami.

Two phrases you wrote are "Being Human" and "Being in Fog".

I have felt and thought those things, these two phrases are powerful.



I started feeling like I was not really a human being at my job then my panic attacks started up.

We don't even have to be in the presence of the Nar-person anymore because we built a little Nar-person in our head that comes with us everywhere.

Dear Helen,
  You and I think in a similar way. The problem is the Nar--person is in our heads. That was my problem on Sunday . My Enlightened Witness broke the spell for me, again.
 I was lost in "BAD". I had all these 'bad" messages coming at me and I could not seemy way  out of them.
 He saw to the core issue which was that I had to be perfect or I was bad. I had to be the perfect hostess, ,perfectly unselfish, perfectly mature, perfectly emotionally balanced etc.
 It really is a metaphor of my life.  My M would always have me on BOTH sides of every issue. She wanted me to get in to a good college so I started being a serious student in High School. Then she told me I was a "greasy grind"
 She told me to pay better attention to my apprearance. Then, she told me I took too much time on myself.
 She  pushed me for achievment and "prestige". Then ,when my H built a beautiful house, she told me that it was conspicuous consumption.
 She walked in and said," I(her) could live in a hut."
 So, on Sunday, I was frozen in BAD.
           xxxooo   Ami

[Meh]

AMI: Did your H sit there and watch the golf by himself?
Maybe he wants to have a guys, yelling, belching, gut scratching party?
Maybe you want to have a warm sit down to a nice meal and chat party?

It might help if you threw your own party your way. Serve the food you want to serve. Is there a TV in another part of the house you can banish your husband to? Or toss his golf-bag to him and say "have a nice day at the course".

Your H may have his own social issues. I've heard that men escape in sports. Maybe it's easier for him to watch the boob-tube then it is to really be 100% present for the party.

Just a thought.

[Meh]

Phoenix Rising,

HA! Thanks for the happy dance!!

I hope your having fun on your trip, I wish I was traveling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ami]

My H sees me as an object in a lot of ways. *I* have to look good for him to be OK. I see that. His shame pulls me in and triggers my shame---all about not being perfect .
 He cannot help me cuz he has the same thing.
 The problem was the shame behind the current situation not the situation itself. This shame has driven me since I was 14 and lost trust in my own humanness. I turned "humaness" in to "badness"--Thanks to finally giving in to my M .
 So, I can have simple situations become BIG as this did cuz it was about shame and perfectionism not the actual events. KWIM?
               Ami

[Meh]

Hi! Ami!

I sent you a personal msg.....