Author Topic: My Truth  (Read 93866 times)

Meh

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Re: Everything that I never told anyone /My secret stories
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2009, 06:59:58 AM »
Thank you Ami for prayer. It's scientifically documented that receiving prayer helps. That is very sweet that you would do that.
If an enlighted witness showed up in my life I would probably have a breakdown it would be an affront to my status quo   -eh maybe not. I guess I'm so use to how I am.

I just took a deep breath.

sKePTiKal

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Re: Everything that I never told anyone /My secret stories
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2009, 08:05:02 AM »
OK - I gotta ask, even though I hesitate to disrupt your flow... it's like a super sharp sword cutting through all the N-crap right to the essential tao of being...

what kind of martial arts?
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Ami

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Re: Everything that I never told anyone /My secret stories
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2009, 08:15:02 AM »
When the Enlightened Witness shows up, it will be very natural. I think that is the sign that it is right. It is very free flowing like when you had a best friend as a child. That is what it feels like--the innocence and child like qualities of two best friends as children. That is the closest description for the type of love.
 I have talked to people about this. They say it is once in a lifetime or never. One friend of mine has it with a female(non gay) .
      Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Meh

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Hi Phoenix Rising!
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2009, 08:22:51 AM »
Hi Phoenix Rising!

Oh I just realized what that post might have sounded like, I'm not bragging, I'm no kind of martial arts expert and I would not pretend to be! I meant that the meditation is not a religion thing so that's why I said it's from martial arts. I didn't want people to think I was a cult person or something. But never mind that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Well there are some people who think that meditation is from the devil.

What I wrote was just about the mindfulness meditation that I have learned from a variety of sources. I guess I've been exposed to about five versions of meditation at least so at this point I just mush em together.

I'm currently working on Tai Chi/Qi Gong.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 08:28:55 AM by Helen »

Ami

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Re: Everything that I never told anyone /My secret stories
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2009, 08:31:01 AM »
I do Yoga and some people say it is from the devil but I don't buy that for myself.               Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

teartracks

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Re: Everything that I never told anyone /My secret stories
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2009, 10:03:05 AM »

Hi,

Re: Meditation, you got me to wondering whether plain old thinking and meditation were the same.  So I searched and it looks like they are the same or at least first cousins.   I suppose subjectivity plays a part in individual  interpretation.
  
Noun 1. meditation - continuous and profound contemplation or musing on a subject or series of subjects of a deep or abstruse nature;

Adj. 1. abstruse - difficult to penetrate; incomprehensible to one of ordinary understanding or knowledge;

Reading backwards, it feels like I spent 7 years of involuntary meditation on the injustice of my own childhood abuse.  It seems that many of us here are caught in involuntary meditation and don't know how to move ourselves to what might be a more favorable & rewarding type of meditation.   Do you suppose that the undoing of the abuse we didn't volunteer for requires this type of meditation that we didn't volunteer for?  Is that why so many of us go through years, even decades caught in this seemingly involuntary meditation?  Do you suppose this is purely a philosophical question or is there a little science hidden in it?  Any thoughts?

tt


  
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 10:14:25 AM by teartracks »

Gabben

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Re: How My mother used other people against me
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2009, 10:52:01 AM »
to change the subject for just a moment....



If my mother saw what I was writing about her, I think she would laugh. Then she would get mean and then punishing. Then she would throw a tantrum. She would look like a little kid when she did the tantrum.


This I can relate...and much more you wrote but this paints a good picture, when you say laugh you mean that evil sarcastic laugh, correct?

Helen, I throw tantrums...Or feel them in me,but the difference between me and the N mom throwing a tantrum is that they then deny that they threw one. They also do much more damage.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 10:54:07 AM by Gabben »

sKePTiKal

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Re: Everything that I never told anyone /My secret stories
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2009, 10:58:43 AM »
Ah Helen... thank you for answering my question! I'm also a tai chi/chi gong student - about 4 years now. Have you had an opportunity to play at pushhands?

As for meditation, it's religion-independent technique that has a lot of healing purposes. Even christianity includes a meditation practice; references are usually made to "comtemplation", though. Medicine is finally beginning to accept meditation as a supplemental treatment for some things, too. I know what you mean, though, about some people not understanding - firsthand.

tt: I like this question! Yes, I think you're on to something... and it's not just a "philosophical" question. In meditation the focus is on simply letting thoughts rise up and disappear... rise up and disappear. "You" notice them... but immediately let the thoughts go; "you" attempt to not get caught up in the thoughts; thinking them and thinking on... It is much, much harder than it sounds.

I've had more the "involuntary" mediation - even when sitting with only breath/present moment focus intention, in that I begin to observe the thoughts for patterns... getting "sucked into" analysis... and then feeling... etc. The tears always just streamed down my face during meditation's most quiet experiences - so I stopped. I couldn't explain it.

In therapy - it's almost a reverse process... in that I seemed to work through all the thoughts/feelings of my story... until I could see it all from the "observing ego"... which I propose could be the same "you" in the meditation description above. Maybe Helen has another perspective on this... I'll admit - I'm long out of the practice of meditation.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

gratitude28

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Re: Everything that I never told anyone /My secret stories
« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2009, 11:03:56 AM »
Helen,
It seems you and I are A LOT alike. Everything I have read here so far resonates - even down to the snails!!!! I want to read all your postings carefully, because I think there is so much there. I also have the alcoholism in the family - but not NM. I think she likes control too much to let herself drink much. I'd love to also talk more about our dads - it seems they are alike as well.
I am glad you are here. I look forward to getting to know you more.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Meh

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Meditation What is it?
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2009, 12:29:40 PM »
Meditation What is it?

Ok, I'm here... I can't sleep...

I'm not clear minded enough to give this answer as much as it deserves but this is my personal experience:

The word Meditation itself can be used by people verbally to describe more then one practice/experience. So if one is to debate what meditation is there is no point in trying to make the word mean only one thing. But there is something that can be clearly defined here.

There are different forms of meditation.

Simple mindfulness or sitting Zazen is essentially to sit still and keep the awareness/consciousness on the breath and the sensations of the breath, the air coming in and out. But there are different forms of these breath-focused meditations. Some are regimented, zen, is usually timed breathing intervals if done in a formal setting, as I experienced in classic strict dojo. Zazen is my favorite style. When I have done this at home I do not time the breath length. Also the air may be breathed in a special way that makes a certain noise, some people sit and stare at a blank wall (this is not a style I practice). The point of focusing on the breath is probably more then one but mainly it is to prevent one's mind/thoughts from controlling us/ taking over the experience. Putting our awareness on the breath keeps us in touch with the physical corporeal body. The thinking mind tends to take us (consciousness) out of the body. We can direct our awareness to different parts of our own body, or into thoughts, or out of our body and into other peoples bodies.  

The idea is that consciousness is not the mind.
The mind makes the word-thoughts, many are repetitive and pointless.
Pure Consciousness is awareness, witness, with no thoughts.
This can get very philosophical and beyond my experience or knowledge base, you have to talk to a monk or go to India to figure it out.
One really must practice it to understand the advanced levels because it gets really "out-there" so to speak, one could call it esoteric at a point.

There is moving meditation, yoga can become this at a high level, walking meditation.

Another form of meditation that comes out of the Buddist tradition that I'm familiar with is similar to the above mindfulness meditation because it does not involve a lot of thinking but it has a directed goal. So it is not just focusing on the breath, it may involve working with the organ of the heart/ heart space and expanding or taking in other peoples suffering and giving out compassion. Or having compassion for oneself. This meditation feels a lot different to me then the previous style I described. The results are different.
There is only the thinking required to direct the action, not a lot of extraneous thought, and it is more of a feel and experience thing not so much an analytical thing.

Along these lines there are meditations for anger and emotions but especially anger seems a popular thing to meditate for. I have not done anger meditation.

There are probably many more types of meditation that I do not know.  

I do believe that some meditation can be relevant to healing, generally I think working with meditation is a slow process, there may be times when people get going faster. I think there are trends in meditation experience, common experiences but all people don't go from A-Z, they might go from A to F to Z and then to O. I mean it may not be a uniform process for everyone. It is individual to a degree and progress and levels are not always sequential. We are dealing with the mind-body-heart-spirt-soul. It's not a robot number line.

I do have some personal experiences I might share about meditation some time and how I think it may be useful in healing. I can't think right now though, no sleep. It may be the long, wrong way around healing trauma though. Maybe attaching to a therapist or someone IS the best solution.
Buddist meditation has a lot of selflessness in it/non-selfishness. My personal oppinion is that selflessness is not what children of Narcissists need. I think children of narcissists need to be selfish. Selfish can be a good thing sometimes.

I know that I need to be selfish.

Meditation is so simple that it is hard.

Meditation is done mostly to clear the mind, focus, bring one's energy under one's own control for combat. Additionally to control another person's energy. Or to develop oneself spiritually.
The thinking mind is limited, we are not our thinking mind, we can function in the world without thinking.

I know nothing of contemplation spiritual traditions. There are so many traditions!





« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 12:34:27 PM by Helen »

Meh

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Re: Everything that I never told anyone /My secret stories
« Reply #70 on: August 13, 2009, 12:54:12 PM »
In the post about meditation I said that I thought selfishness is a good thing for children of Nar-people. I have reconsidered this. I do think that the selfishness for us is fine. Because we need to do that for ourselves.

Yet, there is another part of this that I did not think of or explain. I'm not suggesting that anyone should cultivate compassion, that is a personal choice to do that or not, we all have our own process.

The thing is when we do compassion meditation for others it transforms out own heartspace, not metaphorically, but in corporeal reality. My heart behaves and feels and responds differently when I do this meditation, and it may last throughout the day.
Since my heart has been changed in the process, it is possible to literally say that in giving compassion I am transformed. That sounds poetic but I don't mean for it to be poetic. So if it changes our own heart that may be a personal benefit that is not completely selfless.

I have played around with all of this because I'm curious yet I have my reservations about giving compassion.

There are people who mistake kindness for weakness.

Sometimes meditation can settle a person and take away the intensity of a problem.
An emotional surge might be too overwhelming to begin meditation though.
I've had anxiety that I could not meditate away.
Regular meditation might be able to build up our immunity to anxiety and related things.
And yes, I have heard that before that meditation causes some people to cry.

I think one of the reasons why I stopped was that I made progress to a point and then I could not figure out some of the stuff that was happening to me. As always use caution and one's own internal thermometer. It would have been fortunate if I had been able to work with a very good meditation teacher at that point.

I think this topic might be getting out of the scope of the board?

« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 12:59:11 PM by Helen »

Meh

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Gratitude 28, Hi
« Reply #71 on: August 13, 2009, 01:02:00 PM »
Hi Gratitude 28, nice to meet you!
That is funny about the snails, I never expected to hear that anyone resonated with that!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 01:04:35 PM by Helen »

Meh

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Phoenix Rising
« Reply #72 on: August 13, 2009, 01:18:47 PM »
Phoenix Rising, Push Hands

Hey, that's ok, I'm way out of practice with meditation also.

I just started the Tai Chi a few weeks ago, did Aikido before that and Tai Kuan Do before that. I like it all, I'm disciplined when I'm not a depressive slob! Ok, that was not kind to myself, slob is judgemental..blah blah. Non violent self talk there.

Yes! I did get the opportunity to do a bit of "push hands" type exercises. It was taking turns supporting the other person.

Wow!!! It was not what I expected it to be. It was awesome.
I walked away thinking "Did he just feel the same thing I felt?"

That reminded me, I had a handful of unexpected moments in Aikido where I thought I was going to lose it emotionally. Just spontaneous emotional release, I thought I was going to laugh hysterically. That is probably more embarrassing then crying. At least nobody things a person is crazy for crying!! Ha Ha
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 01:32:48 PM by Helen »

sKePTiKal

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Re: Everything that I never told anyone /My secret stories
« Reply #73 on: August 13, 2009, 01:39:51 PM »
OK, thanks. I'll can the chit-chat for a bit and let you get back to your stories...
but later!  :D then I'll wanna talk some more about this stuff.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Meh

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Voicelessness is a flaw
« Reply #74 on: August 13, 2009, 08:14:09 PM »
So, this is a simple thought that I hate:

My thought is, not just am I experiencing some wound-reopening because of life events (job), but that voicelessness is causing these events to occur.  That is one source of frustration to me, the feeling that no matter how hard I work at something, Even if I do everything correct, and as good as I can be, I can observe people around me who are not apparently trying to be good or work so hard and things work out for them and I sink under. That voicelessness effects my personality and my habits and then my life is shaped by that. Voicelessness is a flaw. It is a maladaptive flaw.

I feel flawed in more ways then one, because I got that message from my family, and that because of the voicelessness I am flawed.
It is a self-fulfillng prophesy.

I don't know who is shaping my life now, my parents still, my voicelessness, my thoughts, spirit/soul, other people, the government?
Are all of the immature and deficient aspects of me shaping my life?

My life does not seem to take a shape that I can find comfort in. I want to be a self made person, sometimes I think I'm doing that.