Making New Friends

[Twoapenny]

I'd really like to hear your opinions on this as I'm a little bit worried.

I've had a bit of a tumultuous but revealing few months.  I've realised that I don't have many of the kind of friends that I would like (kind, thoughtful, helpful etc) and the ones I do have live many miles away.  I think this is something to do with my problems with intimacy and my fear of getting hurt (by getting close to someone as it makes me vulnerable).

I've also realised that when it comes to friendships I've been quite passive in the past and tended to become friends with people who've wanted me rather than deciding whether I like someone and want to spend time with them (and this has tended to end up in friendships where I feel I'm discarded after I've served my purpose).

So ...................... I want to be brave and try to cultivate some new friendships.  There are several people I know who I chit chat to at the various clubs and activities I go to with my son.  I want to try and develop these chit chats into friendships, or at least spend more time with them.

However - is this a bit cynical?  I'm worried there's something a bit narcissistic about it, that I've decided I want to know these people better and am sort of setting out to test them and see if they're 'worthy' of being friends with?  I feel a bit like I'm selecting people and that feels a bit wrong?  I'm also a bit worried I'm going at it for selfish reasons (I want more/better company than I have now, I'd like more friends that understand my son and our situation better, I'd like to be around people that don't arrange things we can't join in with because they don't understand our situation, I'd really like people that help me out sometimes instead of leaving me to struggle on my own).  Is that going into friendships for the wrong reason?

I'm a bit concerned.  Am I going about this the wrong way?  I'd very much appreciate your thoughts.  Thank you in advance.

[BonesMS]

I'd really like to hear your opinions on this as I'm a little bit worried.

I've had a bit of a tumultuous but revealing few months.  I've realised that I don't have many of the kind of friends that I would like (kind, thoughtful, helpful etc) and the ones I do have live many miles away.  I think this is something to do with my problems with intimacy and my fear of getting hurt (by getting close to someone as it makes me vulnerable).

I've also realised that when it comes to friendships I've been quite passive in the past and tended to become friends with people who've wanted me rather than deciding whether I like someone and want to spend time with them (and this has tended to end up in friendships where I feel I'm discarded after I've served my purpose).

So ...................... I want to be brave and try to cultivate some new friendships.  There are several people I know who I chit chat to at the various clubs and activities I go to with my son.  I want to try and develop these chit chats into friendships, or at least spend more time with them.

However - is this a bit cynical?  I'm worried there's something a bit narcissistic about it, that I've decided I want to know these people better and am sort of setting out to test them and see if they're 'worthy' of being friends with?  I feel a bit like I'm selecting people and that feels a bit wrong?  I'm also a bit worried I'm going at it for selfish reasons (I want more/better company than I have now, I'd like more friends that understand my son and our situation better, I'd like to be around people that don't arrange things we can't join in with because they don't understand our situation, I'd really like people that help me out sometimes instead of leaving me to struggle on my own).  Is that going into friendships for the wrong reason?

I'm a bit concerned.  Am I going about this the wrong way?  I'd very much appreciate your thoughts.  Thank you in advance.

(((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

From my perspective, there's nothing wrong with wanting to cultivate HEALTHIER friendships than what you and I have been dealing with in the past.

Bones

[lighter]

Tupp:

My perspective:

You're not testing people, you're trying to make better choices going forward, and figure out how to put new systems in place for yourself.

You're keeping your past mistakes in mind so you can avoid them.

You're holding better expectations as yard sticks.

You're absolutely learning about yourself, how you've operated on auto pilot in the past, and figuring out how to operate differently for a better future.

What could be selfish about that?

It's likely overwhelming, and causes some short circuits...... fearfulness, anxiety, etc... which perhaps make old patterns pop up.... fear, anxiety, kwim?

I hope you're jounaling, and checking in with those thoughts.  There are lessons,

so     

many   

lesssons.........

and it's hard to keep track if you don't note them, and touch them and keep rolling them up to the surface in your process, IME.  Like a washing machine, just too many new revelations to
keep up with, note while figuring out how to change the old, IME.

You have a right to reciprocal relationships.  You have a duty to choose relationships that go both ways.  Frankly it makes me nervouse for you that you don't have some kind of
well written book on the process to refer to and go through steps...... something like that book ARE YOU TOO NICE, or something where they lay out excercises for you.

It's not selfish, Tupp.  It's just difficult.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Tupp, I don't think there's anything wrong about being conscious about your intention...
really, it's the opposite. Relationships have a better chance of being mutually fulfilling,
or even getting off the ground, when people are thinking about who they (themselves)
are, and about what they need. Some matches work, and some just don't.

It does not make you manipulative, to think about people in light of how they might
be a healthy, or appropriate, or unstressful, part of your life. You are in fact being more
fair to others as well, when you are conscious of whether they can meet your basic
requirements for friendship as well as vice versa. If your vote isn't even in there, then
they are not allowed to build anything real either.

So yes, make your silent votes for yourself. You can still be present in the moment,
and be friendly and/or kind, to others you meet. But never pretend to yourself or them
as though YOU are not really there. You always, now, are going to have your own
vote. (They don't even have to know about this thinking...it belongs to YOU.)

It's even a little like A Fine Romance says, although scaled to friendship...beware fusion,
instant total intimacy, and feeling like you must offer yourself up as totally compliant, in
order to be loved. (Or in new friendships, simply liked or acknowledged.)

I think you just need to build confidence that you can continue to be your own loving
friend in life, just as you learned you had to battle for your boy...you deserve to make
discerning choices for yourself too. That will guide you as you learn to choose reciprocity.

Perhaps read that famous list of Boundaries again, I'd suggest...it's in the What Helps section.

love to you,
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Hops, Bonesie, Lighter, thank you for your replies, I am reading and re-reading as my head is spinning a bit at the minute and it's taking a while to layer things down and get my head around them.

On a positive, simple note I spoke to a couple of the mums at swimming last night and we are going to arrange an evening out - I've put it on my To Do list so I don't keep putting it off and finding excuses not to go.

What is coming up is suprising and troubling me.  Because I have no family, I think I have convinced myself that I have a wide and ever reaching circle of friends that replace my family.  I think the truth of the matter is I don't, I think I might even have substituted my very dysfunctional family for a less dysfunctional one through my friends.  I have a lot of on-line 'friends', such as on this forum and of course that is wonderful and very helpful (particularly when you need to talk about things that other people don't understand) but I do feel that I have substituted that for real people.  It's safer on-line without real contact occuring; I'd like to get a combination of both now!

The main things that have been bothering me are:

Realising the only people my son spends time with regularly are volunteers at the sports clubs he goes to.  I don't know why I didn't see this before but it broke my heart when I realised - not one friend or family member bothers with him.  He is the loveliest little lad and all the volunteers think he's brilliant and love being around him.  How have I managed to surround myself with people who cannot find even two hours in a twelve month period to hang out with him or take him swimming?

Someone told me, during a row, that I'd end up bitter and alone.  I'm afraid that I've pretty much fulfilled that prophecy for them, without really realising that I'm doing it.  I am determined to change that now.

Feeling invisible?  I feel that none of my friends has any understanding of my life.  I am alone, with no family or partner.  My son is disabled and taking care of him is roughly equivalent to having three full time jobs.  We're on a low income and everything is a struggle financially - we manage but I have to be very good/careful with money and there isn't money to splash around.  I have had health problems for about a year now, and I've been telling people since Christmas that I feel very ill and am waiting for more tests on my heart.  But despite this none of my friends really ever seem to think about me, to ring for a chat or to just have any understanding that my life is tough.  Since I've told people I've been ill not one person has offered to help or asked me if there's anything they can do.  A couple of people have offered me money but I feel it is human contact that is lacking from my life.  Knowing somebody cared enough to do something with my son would mean so much more to me than cash.

I'm angry with myself that I've let this situation develop and I've left my son as isolated as I was as a child.  I feel I should have realised all of this sooner and sorted it out.  I'm angry that I've swopped one set of dodgy characters for another and left myself out in the cold, as it were.  I feel angry that there are people I've done loads for over the years who now I need help are too busy to even call me.

Sorry it's a bit disjointed, my head is a bit jumpy at the minute and I'm struggling a bit to get how I feel into words.  But angry, sad and so very tired are top of the list, I think.

Thank you for reading xx

[debkor]

Hi Two,

How an whom are the people that live around you?  The best friendships I have are here right in my neighborhood.  Most of the time we meet on days (on the decks or porch) and not planned.  A phone call we are outside if your not busy.  Sometimes just a step into out side.  And in cold weather (we do meet somehow) even if 2 months have one by.

In reality I'm with my friends (that are like family) more then I'm with family....because they live right here.  People are so busy working and then doing the things they have to do when they are off..it's hard to get together with family. 

My cousin lives right across the street and I see her less then I see other's here because she works so long and so hard she is very short on time. 

My kids best friends are from when they were little and they established them themselves.  I don't even know some of their parents (with exceptions) of through sports.

And Us friend's all have Other friend's that we have met with something we have been interested in, such as, my sister/yoga friends, my friends training for *hospice* new friends there.....

And it just happen's.

Just find something that interest you local...art classes, yoga, anything, that you can attend. You will make friends.

You'll be surprised.

And the best ones might be right in your neighborhood.

Your sure would be sitting on our porches....being dialed on the phone....eating (we do a lot of eating) and your son would be like one of our own kids.

That's the people you need to find and the ones your around the most..........And you will.

Chin up kid.   Better day's are coming!!

Love
Deb

[Twoapenny]

Ah Deb, thank you!  My neighbours are pretty grim!  The lady one side of me screams and swears at her kids all the time.  The man the other side is nice enough to me but knocks his kids about.  Two doors up are nice people but a bit too nice - they offer to help you out but then start telling you what to do and asking very personal questions so I keep them at arms length.  It's quite a rough estate, a lot of drug and alcohol problems and lots of people that I don't really want to spend too much time with, to be honest (we are saving up to move!).  But I hear what you are saying and yes, that's the sort of path I want to go down.  My son is hopefully starting a youth club soon so I'm looking around for something I can do while he's off doing that. It's getting easier as he gets older!  Thank you xx

[BonesMS]

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp)))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Twoapenny]

Thank you Bonesie, your hugs make me smile

I'm rambling a bit as things are just occuring to me now and then.  I've already mentioned that no-one spends time with my son.  I home educate him because of his disability (it's much easier for him in a quiet, one to one environment) and I love it.  He's doing brilliantly and really enjoys himself, I've learnt loads since I started doing it and I just love being with him.  He's good company, very funny and still has that child's view of looking at things.  I think I've relived my own (crappy) childhood through him and it's really helped.  We're close and he's the only bit of my life that works - my personal relationships are not great with other people but with him I think I've got the balance right and he's turning into a really polite, well balanced young man - I just need to be able to say the same about myself (although if I start turning into a man that will be a whole other thread but you know what I mean).

Anyway - whenever I complain about being ill or tired the response I get from most people is that I should put him in school.  They just don't seem to understand that apart from school not being the best option for me, I love teaching him at home and I'd hate to stop doing it.  If he wanted to then of course I would but he loves it and I do ask him frequently if he wants to go to school and so far the answer has always been no.  So I never really understand why people think me stopping doing the one thing in my life that I love would make my life better.

But having just got off the phone with a friend, who has again suggested I put him in school (in the past she's suggested I send him to a residential school) the penny dropped - none of my friends actually like spending time with their kids.  I don't know why I haven't twigged this before, but it suddenly seemed really obvious.  Which perhaps does make more sense that I am liking spending time with these mums at activity groups; they at least are interested enough in their kids to take them to clubs and stay and help out.  So yes, I think I am starting to see where I've been going wrong, these are just people who are very different to me so can't understand why I like spending time with him.  Sorry for rambling on, it just helps to get it down while I'm thinking of it, thank you for reading xx

[Hopalong]

Hi ((((Tupp))))

Wish I could cheer you and meet that fine boy in person.

From my (stunned) perspective -- with a now-estranged D I loved being with more than anything, and adored throughout her childhood -- I have come to understand that SHE was my best friend. And it wasn't good for her. (I did not know I was harming her, with my over-doting. And now I do.) You have a very different situation with your boy because of his autism (my D has mild Asperger's and not-mild bipolar disorder), but I hear faint echoes of your close relationship with him taking the place of friendships with your peers.

It has probably been essential, so far. There've been a hundred reasons it has been RIGHT (and even, no choice about it) for you to be so cocooned with him. But I wonder if you might be sensing the inevitability of change. He will become an older boy, then a young man, then a middle aged man, etc...and living with you, and you orbiting around him, may not always be the right thing for you both.

I think of you and friendships as about you (and your boy) breaking out, slowly and gently, of your closed cocoon together. He will always love and need you, and vice versa. He needs others, to reach all the potential he can. You need others for the same reason, though your paths are different.

I love the idea that you are saving to move to a more peaceful place to live. I so hope you can pull it off. And your yearnings for him to find friends and meaning and purpose of his own touch my heart. You want it for him. And you deserve it for yourself, too.

I loathe the idea of you feeling bleak, bitter, and lonely. You've walked a really hard road, on your own, for a very long time. I hope you can find some 3-D situations where there will be positive connections you can build on, for both of you. But separately, if that is workable for you and him.

Miserable as it is to feel uncared-for, by the people you've been friendly with for a long while -- it's very common. Sometimes people are afraid of too much sorrow. They just don't know what to do with it, even if it an ideal world, they would. Other people's pain always bangs up against our own helplessness. That's why I have found the UU church (in my case) absolutely essential to my mental health. Knowing that there is always someone, in that community, makes a huge difference.

The thing is, I no longer expect social friends (people whose main focus in getting together is to just laugh and drink or "play" -- even though those are great things too) to be the core source of comfort and strength in my life. I have learned to "spread it around." There are Covenant Groups (I'm in 2) for serious, heartfelt sharing of anything, no matter how painful, with no fear of rejection. There are playful "buddies" for showers and receptions and activities that are "lighter." There are a couple very close friends I could call any time, but I talk to them about once a week. There are pastoral counselors, one can call when one feels that without a caring ear one will break in two. There is a minister (two). There are adult faith classes that range all over the place, and friendships often come out of those. There are service auctions and potluck suppers just for gathering at tables and feeling a sense of "village." There are a zillion service oriented things to do (once a year or once a wee--you pick what you can and want to do)...helping the homeless, serving at a soup kitchen, working with kids, gathering for social justice causes (environment, peace, etc.).

This way, intentionally bonding with that larger community and identifying myself as belonging, a welcome part of it (I am) -- my situation hasn't overwhelmed any one friend, and in recent years, I've benefitted so much from the feeling of being an embraced member of a whole big group. I don't think I could ever have created that on my own. So that's why, in addition to my agnostic spirituality, I needed to turn to an organized, institutional community. Within it, in various overlapping circles, I did find a PHamily that cares.

Friends tried. Some could hold on during my worst times. Some faded away. But I still have some old friends, and continue to make new ones. And years back, I felt just as lost and isolated and lonely and unloved as you do right now.

It really can change. I hope you can find a community to belong to. They are around you. None of them perfect fits but all of them, full of people, enough of whom can care. Live can be worth living and even have its joys.

Love and comfort,
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Hiya Hopsie, and thank you

I do see what you're saying.  It's not so much that I see my boy as my best friend, just that he's simply needed 100 + hours a week of care throughout his life, most of which I've had to do on my own.  I think what I don't understand is why none of my friends want to spend time with him as he is genuinely lovely - some disabled children have such complex needs that I can understand people feeling that they aren't up to the job as it were but he really isn't like that which is why I feel so bad that no-one seems to bother with him.  You are absolutely right that as he's getting older and becoming more independent that I am able to lift my head above the parapet and see what's going on in my world and I'm not too keen on what I'm seeing at the moment!  I'm so sorry for the situation with your D and am still hoping that she will see the light one day and you will be able to work something out (((((((((((((((((((((((((((Hopsie)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

With regard to having different friends for different things, I think the problem from my perspective is that for many of the people I know I am simply the one they ring when they need help and support and they turn to others when they want to have a good time!  There is a real lack of good times in my life, for me alone, as a grown up, a woman, a person other than 'Mum'.  I think I need that balance within the same people - people I can have fun with, talk to, lean on from time to time and provide support for every now and again - none of it perfectly and I'm sure there would be times when a bit of grumbling and moaning would occur, but at the minute I feel a bit more like service provider rather than a friend?  I don't know if that makes sense, it's a bit early here 

I am so glad that you have found that nice group of people to feel safe and secure within - safe to be yourself, I suppose?  I do hear you about not overwhelming one friend, I have one friend who ticks all of those boxes but I don't like to just rely on here for everything, it feels unfair on both of us.  There are lots of lovely people in the world, I think I just need to hunt them out now   Thank you again, lots of love xxx

[BonesMS]

Thank you Bonesie, your hugs make me smile

I'm rambling a bit as things are just occuring to me now and then.  I've already mentioned that no-one spends time with my son.  I home educate him because of his disability (it's much easier for him in a quiet, one to one environment) and I love it.  He's doing brilliantly and really enjoys himself, I've learnt loads since I started doing it and I just love being with him.  He's good company, very funny and still has that child's view of looking at things.  I think I've relived my own (crappy) childhood through him and it's really helped.  We're close and he's the only bit of my life that works - my personal relationships are not great with other people but with him I think I've got the balance right and he's turning into a really polite, well balanced young man - I just need to be able to say the same about myself (although if I start turning into a man that will be a whole other thread but you know what I mean).

Anyway - whenever I complain about being ill or tired the response I get from most people is that I should put him in school.  They just don't seem to understand that apart from school not being the best option for me, I love teaching him at home and I'd hate to stop doing it.  If he wanted to then of course I would but he loves it and I do ask him frequently if he wants to go to school and so far the answer has always been no.  So I never really understand why people think me stopping doing the one thing in my life that I love would make my life better.

But having just got off the phone with a friend, who has again suggested I put him in school (in the past she's suggested I send him to a residential school) the penny dropped - none of my friends actually like spending time with their kids.  I don't know why I haven't twigged this before, but it suddenly seemed really obvious.  Which perhaps does make more sense that I am liking spending time with these mums at activity groups; they at least are interested enough in their kids to take them to clubs and stay and help out.  So yes, I think I am starting to see where I've been going wrong, these are just people who are very different to me so can't understand why I like spending time with him.  Sorry for rambling on, it just helps to get it down while I'm thinking of it, thank you for reading xx

You're welcome, ((((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))

When I read about how these other mothers don't like to spend any time with their children, it made me wonder:   WHY did they become mothers in the first place?  Did they become mothers simply to LOOK GOOD to others while expecting the children to meet THEIR needs instead of the other way around?

I might be over-analyzing them.

Bones

[Hopalong]

There is a real lack of good times in my life, for me alone, as a grown up, a woman, a person other than 'Mum'

I believe you. That makes me sad. You have been SO loving and giving, and such a heroic mother, that I'll bet many in your world think of you as just that -- "loving, giving, Mum" -- and so they call YOU when they need the same. It's probably not intentional, people just seek to meet their needs and there you go. But I can imagine how frustrating it is, to give until you're feeling used, and then wonder why none of them are imaginative enough to suss out that you are beginning to need something more.

Hmm. Now that I think about it a little more, I wonder if all this frustration isn't actually a good sign, in your life? You used to be so utterly other-focused ALL the time, and now you're getting a little....drumroll...selfish! In the GOOD way.

You have a full, three-dimensional self who's been clamped down on by the extraordinary caregiving and parenting load you've been staggering under. Willingly and lovingly, but -- with almost no room for a full self-expressing life.

Now that your son's boyhood has lost its endlessness, as it always is the way...change is coming.

I think feeling it in frustration with the less-than-full-dimensional friendships now, makes perfect sense.

I need that balance within the same people - people I can have fun with, talk to, lean on from time to time and provide support for every now and again

I'm sorry you haven't got the 3-D friendship function going right now. They're creatures of habit, and you probably helped (not intentionally) set things up this way (teaching them to treat you as a service provider). I so hope either a couple of your current friends will be adaptable to a fuller, more reciprocal role...or if there's no sign of it, that you won't be too hurt for too long, but get out (hard as it is to "get out" with your boy needing you there all day and night) and do what you can, to expose yourself to the possibility of new friends.

PS--in my own community, we don't just do "good works" or intense heart-to-hearts. We get ridiculous and have "game night" and that sort of thing. I don't do all of it, I have a small regular circle and they tend to be the sort who welcome seriousness. But sometimes we do get absurd.

Gotta run, love to you lovely one,
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Hi Hopsie, thank you again, you are so insightful

I have been trying to look at my own behaviour in light of all this.  I find it very difficult to look at myself in this way.  After the years of "you're terrible, everything you do is terrible" and then the counsellng years of "I'm a wonderful human being with rights and needs"  I find it hard to accept/admit that there are aspects of my personality that I find quite unpleasant (deep breath here!).

I've been reading the bits about boundaries that you mentioned.  I'm ashamed to say I think there is something of the martyr about me, something that likes/craves the whole 'look at me, look at how much I sacrifice and do on my own'.  I think I need to spend some time at that and weed out what's necessary and what I need to get rid of now.

I do find it very difficult to ask for help, particularly if the answer is no as that triggers so many things in me.  So that's something else I need to look at and work on a little.

I also recognise signs of passive aggression in myself - not being vocal about what I need and then resenting that.  There are also people that I grumble about not seeing but if I'm honest I don't really want to see them, again I think there is something of the victim 'look they've abandoned me again' thing about me that I need to address.

IT IS OKAY FOR ME NOT TO LIKE PEOPLE AND OK FOR THEM NOT TO LIKE ME.  Eek!  That sits a little heavily on my chest.  Something else to work on, I suppose.  I feel sometimes like I have to have a reason not to hang out with someone, rather than just being able to say to myself "I just don't feel like it at the moment".

Lots revolving in my head.  On a positive note, it's looking like a night out with a couple of the other mums is on the cards - nothing big, just a bit of chit chat and hopefully a laugh.  I need to focus on getting some fun back in my life, I think.  Things have been too gloomy for too long.

Thank you, everyone, for all your thoughts and input into this, I really appreciate you taking the time to do that and for listening to me waffle on.  Thank you all so much.

Love Tup xx

[Hopalong]

Oh good for you.
There is no way your life won't change for the better ...

It is so so so rare for people to own those sticky things, like martyrdom, or P-A stuff...and see those uckier sides of themselves clearly.

But the people who do acknowledge, accept, and forgive their darker sides, are the only ones who can change or manage them...and move ahead.

Now I'm excited for you.

love
Hops