Making New Friends

[BonesMS]

"Bones, I hope you get more good days and bad.  And someone to play with Smile  Yes, I know people like that.  I have a friend - who I try and see less of now - who just last week wrote a date down on my calendar without asking me whether I was free or whether I wanted to meet with her and the other person she'll be with.   And I don't want to, the other friend is someone else I rarely hear from and I just don't want to spend time with her anymore.  I honestly feel scared about saying that.  But I feel I'm being deceitful if I don't tell the truth."

Thanks, Tupp.

From my perspective, you're not being deceitful when the other person REFUSES to HEAR YOU!

Thanks, Bones.  I think I'm starting to get my head around it all a bit more now.  I think what I want in a friendship is equality?  There will always be times when one person is more capable than the other for all sorts of reasons.  But I think I'd got to the point where I felt like I was making a lot more effort than other people were.  I think I also still feel a bit as if I don't have a right to choose who my friends are.  I think I've mentioned in this that I've always been very passive in friendships and I've sort of gone along with other people regardless of whether or not I want to be around them and/or enjoy spending time with them.  I've also got to a point, I think, where I can see that there are some people who I did/do like but our lives have got to a point now where the relationship just isn't sustainable.  I suppose friendships are like romantic relationships in the sense that sometimes it just runs its course, there isn't always a big reason or a situation.

But I think what I do want in my life are friends that make a similar amount of effort to see or spend time with me and who enjoy my company and aren't just filling time until something or someone else comes along.  I think that's happened a lot to me, largely because I just let myself go along with things.  So I'm making an effort to connect more with other people.  I think there is also that comfort zone of doing something even though you don't really want to anymore?  So I'm trying to get out of that now as well.

You're welcome, Tupp.

I'm saying too much right now as I'm feeling really cranky about a 3-D situation here.

[Hopalong]

Tupp--

Two "secrets" (from learning everything the hard way):

1) "Keep the line moving." (IOW, meet a LOT of people...hence, community, exposing yourself to groups, more and more.)

2) Reciprocity. (If you do #1, eventually you'll find some folks who seem to respond, and respond adequately.)

Bonus secret: Keep enough "score" to be aware when relationships (and who reaches out) are way out of balance, but not so precisely that you can't tolerate variations in "appetite for connection."

xxoo
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Tupp--

Two "secrets" (from learning everything the hard way):

1) "Keep the line moving." (IOW, meet a LOT of people...hence, community, exposing yourself to groups, more and more.)

2) Reciprocity. (If you do #1, eventually you'll find some folks who seem to respond, and respond adequately.)

Bonus secret: Keep enough "score" to be aware when relationships (and who reaches out) are way out of balance, but not so precisely that you can't tolerate variations in "appetite for connection."

xxoo
Hops

Hi Hops,

Yes, I see what you're saying here.  I've been thinking about this over the last few days and I realised that when we were little my mum's preferred form of punishment was silence.  She'd go days without speaking to us over some misdemeanour or other.  So I think now when I call someone and they don't call back it triggers that feeling of "what did I do?  Why am I being ignored?  When will it stop".  When we were kids I used to trip over myself to get her talking to me again, and I think the shift in that behaviour is that I stopped returning people's calls straight away if it had been weeks since they'd called me.  I know it sounds childish (like a sort of tit for tat) but as I look at it now I think it was breaking the pattern in the behaviour.  I'd call them, get silence for two months and then be so grateful that they'd called me that I'd ring back straight away and be very effusive and chatty.  And that was really pissing me off; I felt I was being treated badly but jumping through hoops instead of complaining about it.

So I think what I'm trying to do at the minute is trying to get that balance of not being around people who trigger too much but not cutting out so many that I'm left with no-one.  But definitely meeting new people is something I'm getting better at and feeling more confident about

[Hopalong]

I understand that so well, Tupp.
To me, the silent treatment feels like shunning.

I also have a very hard time with managing the "space" between connection, sometimes.

love
Hops

[Meh]

So I think what I'm trying to do at the minute is trying to get that balance of not being around people who trigger too much but not cutting out so many that I'm left with no-one.  But definitely meeting new people is something I'm getting better at and feeling more confident about

Yah,

Finding the "right" people if they even exist is quite the process I suppose.

I find that a lot of people are very selective with whom they become friends with and I never really figured it all out to be honest.

[Twoapenny]

So I think what I'm trying to do at the minute is trying to get that balance of not being around people who trigger too much but not cutting out so many that I'm left with no-one.  But definitely meeting new people is something I'm getting better at and feeling more confident about

Yah,

Finding the "right" people if they even exist is quite the process I suppose.

I find that a lot of people are very selective with whom they become friends with and I never really figured it all out to be honest.

Ha, no, me neither, Green!

[Twoapenny]

I understand that so well, Tupp.
To me, the silent treatment feels like shunning.

I also have a very hard time with managing the "space" between connection, sometimes.

love
Hops

Yes, it's that balance, isn't it, between other people not needing the same as we do but being aware enough of what we do need that we don't put ourselves under unnecessary pressure to fit in or ignore the way something makes us feel.  It was interesting because I talked about all of this briefly with this new therapist last week and when I mentioned 'normal' reactions to things she said "What's normal?  Don't dismiss something because you don't think you should feel or think that way, it's your perception, it's valid.  You don't have to be like other people".  We didn't go any further with it as there wasn't time with that session but it is making me think about the way I prioritise my time (me and what I want at the back of the queue) and the fact that so many people in my life also leave me at the back of the queue!  And ironically what I want the most is to be at the front!

Bizarrely, several people that I haven't heard from in ages (about a year or so) have all got in touch in the space of this last week or two.  Because I've not heard from them for so long, I've decided to try not to call back straight away but to wait until I've done everything else I want to do and then return their calls when it suits me.  It feels very alien to me to think like this.

[Hopalong]

I love your therapist.
And I love hearing how you're trying NEW approaches!

That's awesome, Tupp.

 

Hops

[Twoapenny]

I love your therapist.
And I love hearing how you're trying NEW approaches!

That's awesome, Tupp.

 

Hops

Thanks, Hops   I liked the therapist as well, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for some good work with her!

I think I am going to try another new approach as well, although my mind is a bit muddled about it so it's a bit vague at the minute.

This week has been odd, both brilliant and terrible at the same time.  It's been like living two different lives at once.

On the one hand we went to this demo, met loads of people, got loads of info about other protests to get involved in and I felt really alive, for the first time in a really long time.  My son enjoyed it as well so for us to have something we both really like that I feel is doing some good as well is amazing.

But I haven't had a conversation about this in the real world, because I haven't actually had a conversation with anyone this week that's extended beyond a quick chit chat and, in all honesty, no-one I know is really interested in things like protests, they think it's a bit radical and out there (that's the impression I've got from the lack of interest in us doing it, anyway).

What I have done this week is offer support to:  a friend who is suffering from cancer, a friend whose son is having terrible problems, a friend who's suffering from terrible migraines, a friend who's son is being tested for health problems and another friend who is coping with the anniversary of her daughter's death this week.  On top of which I fitted in a protest march, a week of home schooling, the usual day to day running of the house, a therapy session (which no-one other than people on this board knows about because I haven't spoken to anyone about me this week) and the fact that both my son and myself are still run down after colds and both generally worn out.

I think this is the first time I really clearly see the lack of balance in my life.  I don't have anyone in the real world to share any of this with, to off load to, to take on a bit of the work for me.  So I am seeing that I really need to change this and to start putting myself first, and to try and do something about the fact that there seems to be so much ill health and disaster in my life.

[Hopalong]

That's a massive list! And you forgot the troubled young girl online.

Tupp, that's a good thing. I noticed on the other thread you named it co-dependence.

I have a very close and beloved friend, a hospice social worker. Just quit after completely
exhausting herself with over-dedication, as a matter of fact. I have my pathologies, which
she understands and accepts, and she has hers, which I understand but accept less gracefully
(because one of the lovely things I inherited was reflex to be judgmental...)

So. This thing I notice about her, that I am averse to, is her attitude toward animals.
First. I BENEFIT from it, because she adores my pooch and takes care of her for me sometimes.
But also, sometimes it squicks me out. Hard to describe, but, when we take walks and encounter
any animal at all (usually contented pet dogs or cats), her response to every single animal regardless of its
youth or age is:

Ohhhhh baaaaaaaaaaaaaby, okay, okay, yes, yes, okay, come here, yes, come here, it's okay baaaaaaaaaaby.

And it's like, every single living thing she encounters she responds to as though:
1) they are at that very moment in a tragic state of being abused
2) she is the only one whose empathy is functional and can respond to rescue them

Odd. But I notice that this is the loop she's in. It's as though because of her own damage,
she cannot empathize with ease, with relaxation, with peace, with simple wellbeing. She is
restless, in some way, I believe, that causes her to yearn for others' suffering to soothe.

I can't count the ways I am fortunate in how she's soothed mine. So, she is one of my
friends I am most profoundly grateful for (hence my guilt over these critical thoughts).
And I support her too. But this one habit, with animals we meet, feels unwell, in a way.
Couple times, when she's been crouched on a sidewalk entreating an animal to come to her
in that way, they've walked around her and come straight to me. I'd just been looking, delighting,
and welcoming them, mentally.

It's like for her, all animals are hospice patients. And I don't like how I feel around this vibe.
I know she's utterly trustworthy and we will be mutually supportive and caring old ladies.
She is also one of the LEAST judgmental people I know, when it comes to emotions. I do
feel incredibly lucky to have her in my life. But at times, just now and then, I feel a little tiny
vibe of her being just a tad...buzzardly.

Isn't that an awful way to judge someone? I don't mind confessing it here though.
And what the hell is wrong with anyone who so yearns to help and rescue? Maybe
something's wrong with ME. Something else, I mean. I'll add it to things I need to
contemplate.

Your list of helpees made me think of it, though it's not equivalent.

I am delighted to hear how you're groping to find yourself in the middle of these
urges, Tupp. I think it's very very healthy.

love
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Ha ha, Hopsie, that did make me laugh, I have a friend who's like that with young children, we'll be out somewhere and, mid-conversation, she suddenly gives a gasp that makes me think she's having a heart attack or something and it's not, she's seen a toddler and just goes into raptures about how wonderful they are.  I do see completely what you mean, empathy is another skill I need to practise, I think.  There is a fine line between caring and being overbearing, just as there is a fine line between healthy boundaries and being heartless.

Of the list of people I support, only one of them genuinely doesn't have anyone else around to support them (that's the young lady online).  My friend who has cancer doesn't have much support and that is one of those awful illnesses where you do want to be as supportive as possible.  Equally with my friend whose daughter died, as it's the anniversary I do want to see her at that time and let her know I'm thinking of her.

But the others all have other people around them and I think, like your friend with the dogs, because I have no-one, in the same way that she thinks every animal is being abused, I assume everyone is terribly lonely and neglected, and in the same way that she thinks she's the only one that will rescue them, I think I'm the only one that will bother.  Ironically, even in that situation, there is still no-one who bothers with me.  So I think I must start bothering with myself?

I realised today that there is no-one in my life who loves me.  No family, no partner and, whilst I have friends, I wouldn't say that I feel loved by any of them.  My son loves me but I don't feel that with him as he's not able to express that or think of others because of the problems he has.  I think that love is different, anyway, it's not the same as adult to adult.

But it made me think that I've used doing good and being caring as a way of trying to replicate that feeling of being loved and wanted.  People are nice to you when you are doing good things for them and I think that's the mistake I've made.  I've been so focused on getting those feel good feelings that I haven't thought about how to do it in any way other than giving constantly.  So I need to address that somehow, I'm just not quite sure how at the minute!

I don't think that you are judging your friend, more that you're observing her behaviour at certain times.  It would be hard not to notice.  Don't contemplate too much on that, I don't believe the list should be that long xx

[Twoapenny]

I was reading an article that was taking the mickey out of Gwyneth Paltrow's website Goop and it mentioned this article on friendships, which I actually found quite useful:

http://www.goop.com/journal/be/71/friendship-divorce

I feel a bit like I'm moving between two worlds at the moment.  In one world I have 'old' friends who, for the most part, I no longer have much in common with and who I don't want to spend too much time with.  In the other, I have 'new' friends, who are more my kind of people and who I like being around but I find my insecurities and anxieties make it difficult at times to meet up with them or to just go with it and enjoy it.  I have a deep seated belief that I'm simply not clever enough/nice enough/ funny enough for these people to want to be around.  But I feel that I am getting there slowly.  It's blooming hard work, though!

[Hopalong]

Thanks for making me laugh too Tupp...you so GOT it with this:

we'll be out somewhere and, mid-conversation, she suddenly gives a gasp that makes me think she's having a heart attack or something and it's not, she's seen a toddler

That's a spot-on sendup. Hysterical!

And as to your new friends, hon...here's the great big unavoidable only-answer-there-is secret...the answer is...
practice.

Look at all encounters/assays/efforts/risks/reachings-out as...practice.

It really really helps.

love
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Thanks for making me laugh too Tupp...you so GOT it with this:

we'll be out somewhere and, mid-conversation, she suddenly gives a gasp that makes me think she's having a heart attack or something and it's not, she's seen a toddler

That's a spot-on sendup. Hysterical!

And as to your new friends, hon...here's the great big unavoidable only-answer-there-is secret...the answer is...
practice.

Look at all encounters/assays/efforts/risks/reachings-out as...practice.

It really really helps.

love
Hops

Yes, the practise bit is hard but I'm trying and it is easier at times!  I do feel I'm on the right track, it just feels like a really steep learning curve sometimes

[Twoapenny]

I've been thinking about all of this a lot recently and really just want to get what is in my head down here, even though some of it I think has been said before.

I have noticed some patterns in my behaviour when I look back over my life.  Whenever there is a major upset, I head for my home town.  I despise the area I grew up in.  It is full of bad memories, it is full of people who drive me mad, I was bored rigid by the time I was fifteen and it's a deprived area miles from any kind of civilization.  Yet when things go wrong in my attempts to escape it all I always head back there.  I think it is safer than battling through new things and coping with what life throws at me.  So that is one thing that I need to work on now.

As far as friendships go I think I have mentioned before that I have always been very passive and have gone with people who've come to me rather than taking the initiative and getting to know people who interest me.  My focus is on whether they like me/accept me rather than whether I enjoy their company and find them interesting.  I focus on what other people want/need rather than what I want or need.

I've been thinking about how to make new friends and have decided that there are three people I already know that I would like to get to know better.  It feels very calculating but I am going to try and schedule time with them on a weekly basis to get to know them better and to see if the relationship can grow.  This feels sort of wrong but also seems sensible?

I'd also like to try and meet more people and get out of my comfort zone a bit so in the New Year I am going to sign up for an indoor rock climbing course I saw advertised.  They do beginners classes at a low rate and then run women only sessions as well as mixed ones.  I'd like to go to the women only ones.  I'd really like to develop some healthy female relationships and I thought that meeting people via an activity might be a good way to do it.  I'd also really like to start having a separate life from my son now that he's getting older.  He already goes rock climbing so it's something that we could do together and on our own so it seems like a good place to start.

I've realised I find it easier to stay in friendships I'm not keen on rather than making new ones.  I find the whole process really frightening.  Having to deal with possible rejection is a big deal for me.  But I think I need to work on that now.

So that's my update for the time being.  I feel like I am stepping into an abyss!  But now I think I can see where I've made mistakes before I'm hoping I can do things differently now.