Author Topic: Mindfulness and codependence thread  (Read 136650 times)

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #195 on: April 29, 2020, 11:01:44 PM »
I used to think of discomfort and pain as messengers... something's out of balance.  Something needs to change.  I need to make a move.

Now I think of it as feedback.... something more useful than a messenger even.

That's my thought for today.

Twoapenny

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #196 on: April 30, 2020, 03:58:25 AM »
I used to think of discomfort and pain as messengers... something's out of balance.  Something needs to change.  I need to make a move.

Now I think of it as feedback.... something more useful than a messenger even.

That's my thought for today.

It's a good thought to have, Lighter.  I think sometimes it's a little marker, to draw attention.  See me, see me!  I was listening to something yesterday about period pain and past experiences.  The lady was suggesting there's an energetic link between previous trauma and period pain and suggests that when the pain comes, think back to your early periods - were you supported or shamed?  Was it joyful or something you were punished for.  It was interesting and chimes with what you're saying, I think, some sort of message.  I'm going to try it during my next cycle, it certainly can't hurt :) xx

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #197 on: April 30, 2020, 12:56:19 PM »
I'm interested in what comes up... as you pay attention.

About the feedback.... I realize it's usually about something I haven't accepted.

Sometimes I feel like I'm a wonky tire with a lump in it.  I grasp the concept of radical acceptance, hang on pretty well, get flipped around by something reactive... which throws me for a loop, then come back around to acceptance. 

Again.

It's getting easier, bc I understand it more deeply and experience such relief when I manage it.

Lighter

Twoapenny

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #198 on: May 01, 2020, 01:18:45 PM »
I'm interested in what comes up... as you pay attention.

About the feedback.... I realize it's usually about something I haven't accepted.

Sometimes I feel like I'm a wonky tire with a lump in it.  I grasp the concept of radical acceptance, hang on pretty well, get flipped around by something reactive... which throws me for a loop, then come back around to acceptance. 

Again.

It's getting easier, bc I understand it more deeply and experience such relief when I manage it.

Lighter

Yes, I struggle with acceptance as well.  I find it hard if I feel I've been wronged and the other person did nothing to right the wrong, if that makes sense.  I'm not sure why I struggle with that so much.  I would like it to be water off a duck's back but it often seems to really stick.

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #199 on: May 01, 2020, 01:44:41 PM »
Injustice sticks, for a long time, ime.

I think the hardest thing to learn for a child and also for adults for a very long time, even decades, is that coming to release the expectation that life will be fair, is ultimately more fair to yourself. That way you struggle and agonize less, or for not as long, over not getting pure justice. But releasing is the work, takes practice.

I don't mean yielding to resignation or fatalism or pessimism about humanity or abandoning hope of positive change. It's just releasing the perfectionism we (I) can bring to idealism, the absolute judgements we can concentrate our energy in, about what is good or evil or fair or right. As life chips away at our absolutism and ideals, I think we wind up something like the Velveteen Rabbit. He always seemed real to me.

We dream about life in black and white, but live it in the sloppy gray middle.

We shall now cease our utilization of the Royal We, which We have always found an irritant when employed by others. We acknowledge Our hypocrisy but We can't be bothered at the moment.

xxxoooo
Hops
« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 01:47:22 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #200 on: May 02, 2020, 01:28:22 PM »
LOL, Hops. You're funny and putting difficult concepts into concise sentences.  Again.

Thanks.

Lighter

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #201 on: May 05, 2020, 11:02:58 PM »
New moss friend L texted for a visit today.  She returned several containers and brought me a sturdy new one as well, explaining how they drilled holes into theirs for a rope to be pulled like a big pan with a lip.  I think it's a good size for lots of things.   I'm very pleased as it also has a measure strip on it's side.  Not sure what it's for.  It looks industrial.

::swooning::

I love very useful things. 

L is lovely and her husband is one of those BIG PICTURE guys.  I hope I can have them both over for a brainstorming session on final stone and planter layout in my yard.  All 3 of our backs are in some kind of trouble right now.  We all like rocks, and moss and planting things... too heavy of things.  We reminded ourselves we aren't 30 anymore.

I really like her and again we marveled at all we have in common.  I've never had this experience before.  I'm not quite sure what to do with it, frankly.

It's certainly giving me insight into things I haven't thought about before. 

Lighter

   


lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #202 on: May 06, 2020, 03:22:09 PM »
Youngest dd had labs done today.  Everything but the actual draw is done on the computer.... checking iron levels mostly, Bs, Ds and Cs.   People wait in the parking lot till a text tells them to come inside.  Patients have to wear masks.  In and out, no problem though I did regret not tossing a "Don't touch your face" reminder to dd before she got out of the car.  There's concern.  I AM concerned. 

 I ran to Hopie, just around the corner in a not great area of downtown, which is small and noticeably shut down. This means the people out and about are mostly homeless, drug addicted, mentally ill.  The police came into the store while I was shopping and spoke to the manager....
No, they hadn't had anyone in the store making trouble today....besides the guy walking around with the uncapped hypodermic needled he filled with drinking fountain water.  The cops asked if it was the tall guy?  Yes, it was, just call them back if he shows back up. 

Holy cow..... naked men pooping, masturbating on the same nature trail an older woman was kicking dogs and cussing at a young mother with young children..... purses stolen from shopping carts, shady people casing neighborhoods in vehicles... giving different stories to different people... breaking into vehicles.   I'm not angry or complaining.... I'm noticing.  And concerned. People shooting guns with bullets ripping into trees in their neighbor's yards... just not putting up proper targets I think, but Lordy.  Some people are aggressively angry..... the drug-addicted mentally ill people and stupid neighbors are OUTSIDERS and they don't belong in their opinions.  They have zero compassion and I don't know for sure I wouldn't feel that way if they showed up on my doorstep.  Maybe I would.  Compassion would stop way short of them harming my pug or daughters, for sure. 

I suspect a smashed car window or two would dampen my compassion as well.   We used to carry food to give to people begging on the side of the road.  DOING something... if only giving them something to eat....  they don't want and might throw away or trade for booze or drugs.... was something we could do.  I'd feed them on my doorstep if they asked, but that's not what they want.  I notice I don't take this personally as some neighbors do.... it's not personal... I don't perceive it to be aimed at me, but I'm aware they'll do what they do to anyone if the opportunity presents itself.  I notice I feel pretty safe.  I'm surrounded by people who are always home.  People who care about us and pay attention to what's going on around us. 

I also notice the neighbors talking about outsiders, like they're not human beings, bothers me.  IS it their lack of compassion and would compassion be a mistake?  Likely, so I'm letting it go... just let it go.  Whew.  Better.

It got windy and dark so I ran into he garden and stupidly laid down Preen weed preventer.... which stops seeds from germinating.  I hope it stops the weeds and is GONE before I sew MY seeds.  Not sure what I was thinking.  I have to tell on myself.... I did the same in the neighbor's little patch.  He's germinating seeds outside the garden and I assumed not planting seeds, but hey..... I might have really messed up OR done him a tremendous favor that saves him lots of weeding and worrying about weeding.  Hard to say, really.

Lighter


lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #203 on: May 06, 2020, 03:45:31 PM »
Spoke with T today.... about things we do to STOP feeling... to comfort ourselves... to avoid tending to the injured childlike part of ourselves is where that ended up.

In a nutshell:

When we eat, drink alcohol, do drugs, etc we're throwing a wet blanket on that child.

When we stop, make a cup of tea, do yoga, ask what that feeling is about, what needs tending to... we're picking the child up and attending to it.  This is body/financial safety root chakra stuff.   

I notice I tend to eat in the evenings or sometimes too late at night when I'm tired.  That makes it more difficult to remember to notice and  tend to the feelings underneath.

   Remind myself I AM safe in the moment, and observe what's going on around me, pay attention to my breath, and engage in nurturing actions.  Put time between the feeling and reactions.  Time provides opportunity to respond.

Shifting into the limbic system... emotional brain.... or amygdala/fight for flight survival brain, means I'm less likely to SEE solutions... make good choices. 

The more I do it, the easier it gets...  like building a muscle.  Everything changes when I practice.  Chemically.  Energetically.  Physically.  Emotionally.  It can change in a second... doesn't have to be hard or take a long time.

I'm committing to doing yoga for my back..... Yoga For The Rest Of Us DVD / back care basics is the starting point... just placed my order.  Will hope to branch out from there. 

Lighter



 
 

Twoapenny

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #204 on: May 07, 2020, 06:35:19 AM »
That's a good comparison, Lighter, between throwing a wet blanket on a child and nurturing them. That makes a lot of sense to me, as does repeating the new habits and building them like muscles.  Let's all continue to build our child nurturing muscles.

I hope the seed prevention stuff turns out to be good rather than not good :) Easy to do something instinctively and then realise afterwards you may have shot yourself in the foot.

I think stay away from rough neighbourhoods, Lighter.  People are going crazy; it's what some people do under pressure.  Domestic violence here is through the roof.  People are indoors all day with nothing but fear and misleading or contradictory information going around and they throw the wet blanket on the child.  And people do dehumanise other groups of people.  They want someone to blame and I'm noticing a lot here that a lot of people are talking about what other people need to do to change, in many different ways, but far fewer are talking about how they want or are willing to change to try to make what comes after this better, fairer, more sustainable.  I'm trying to only connect with the ones who are trying to do something different, even if it's just growing parsley on the window cill.  Personally, I don't think compassion is ever a mistake.  You can be compassionate and still keep your boundaries in place and keep yourself safe.  People in desperate situations do desperate things and make desperate choices.  Compassion from a distance, maybe that's the way to look at it.

I eat all sorts of crap when I'm tired, Lighter, and stressed, lonely, anxious lol, it's my answer to many problems.  And I take my foot off the gas when I feel better.  I've been doing yoga and taking Epsom salts baths each night.  Didn't bother last night because my back felt better.  I am feeling it today so that's my lesson, keep the good habits up, even when it feels like I don't need to.

Do you do any of the Yoga With Adriene stuff on YouTube?  I really like her workouts; they suit me and she has a nice, relaxed style.  And a cute dog who sometimes joins in.  Maybe you could train Pug?  Lol xx

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #205 on: May 07, 2020, 07:31:09 AM »
What Tupp said. Plus:

Lighter, I think one healthy thing to do rather than allow yourself to directly face all the ugly just because you are bold enough to (your children need you safe and sane, not testing the limits right now), perhaps you could express that courage and compassion in ways that don't threaten you or add to the agitation, which I believe is revealed class conflict right now. Going out unecessarily has its messages.

Maybe one way of making that difference, while releasing any guilt you feel about your own safety and comfort, would be to donate. The energy and/or money you'd spend trying to directly and personally intervene in the disaster could be channeled instead into an effective local organization that is trying to supply and organize to help the most desperate in your community, whether they are outsiders or locals.

Does that make any sense?

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #206 on: May 08, 2020, 10:45:17 PM »
Tupp:

I looked up Youtube vids for Yoga with Adriene.  She's adorable and her dog is pretty relaxed fellow.  Her voice is really soothing too.  I'll select a couple of her workouts and begin.  Thanks!

Tupp and Hops:

I haven't sought out rough hoods.  Rather, I've tried to support businesses I used to support weekly..... I've been to the one downtown ONCE in 2 months, and only bc it was close to the lab.  I really don't want it to go out of business.  I don't. 

I have to say this..... my gut says I'm more likely to use this as a jumping-off point for showing the girls where to find and how to deploy and use the pepper spray in the car door, rather than skirt around our regular stores.  We're NOT in what's considered a dangerous city BUT times they have changed. 

How much will I let these changes.... change me/us?  This is something I'm considering right now.

I'm not fearless. 

I'm proactive. 

I don't want to have regrets in either direction.

Lighter



lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #207 on: May 08, 2020, 11:19:32 PM »
Tupp:

I loved the bedtime yoga with Adriene.  I'm going to do the entire thing tonight before bed. 

Also considering the 30 day yoga workout she does!

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #208 on: May 09, 2020, 06:24:03 AM »
Hi Lighter,
Here's what floats up for me in case it resonates. I may be waaaaay off base. Probably am, in fact.

I know you are bold, have done martial arts for years, lived through big trauma, have had many threats from males. All that is real and ongoingly healing for you.

What comes up for me sometimes is a sense that your language over time reveals intensity about threats in many directions. So I wonder if teaching your girls to find and "deploy" pepper spray might carry, FOR THEM, a kind of fear-teaching? A threat-based orientation to life? I'm just wanting to imagine them safe and happy and still enjoying some sense of trust in the world. And maybe of confidence in themselves, which I know rationally you're also trying to teach them. And knowing how to use pepper spray certainly makes sense. Maybe it was the word "deploy" that got me. (Irrational language triggers in me.)

I don't know what it would be like to have powerful self-defense skills. If I had young girls I might enjoy letting them take judo if they sought it out (I did and it made me feel more powerful). But unless there truly is apocalypse or zombie time, which I don't think there is so far anyway, I wonder if it'll be anxiety-producing for them, to pick up on or absorb those preoccupations. Unconsciously. Some personalities are warrior types and others aren't.

Same time, I also think it's wonderful to empower the young, especially girls. So I don't know that I'm pearl-clutching over anything that makes sense.

Kids need safety and to navigate adolescence without recklessness. Kids in the newest generation are facing it all: climate, possible civil unrest, epidemics and depression-era desperation in many folks. I do think the world is more unsafe but also think that positive engagement with community is more protective than weaponry or training to fight.

Then again, I'm a physical coward. No confidence at all that I could physically defend myself against danger so my reaction is to use my radar to avoid it -- areas, people with bad vibes, situations well known to be risky. My response to the attack on my community from far-right groups was -- stay indoors, keep quiet, and don't confront. Strangers were coming and going in scary trucks with scary flags. Eventually, they went away.

I certainly feel I failed to protect my own D, and she was drawn to darkness and confrontational situations. So I'll bet that's what I'm responding from.

Barrels of salt, do take all this with barrels of salt....but it's meant with care.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #209 on: May 10, 2020, 05:47:26 AM »
Tupp:

I looked up Youtube vids for Yoga with Adriene.  She's adorable and her dog is pretty relaxed fellow.  Her voice is really soothing too.  I'll select a couple of her workouts and begin.  Thanks!

Tupp and Hops:

I haven't sought out rough hoods.  Rather, I've tried to support businesses I used to support weekly..... I've been to the one downtown ONCE in 2 months, and only bc it was close to the lab.  I really don't want it to go out of business.  I don't. 

I have to say this..... my gut says I'm more likely to use this as a jumping-off point for showing the girls where to find and how to deploy and use the pepper spray in the car door, rather than skirt around our regular stores.  We're NOT in what's considered a dangerous city BUT times they have changed. 

How much will I let these changes.... change me/us?  This is something I'm considering right now.

I'm not fearless. 

I'm proactive. 

I don't want to have regrets in either direction.

Lighter

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I'm sorry, because I didn't explain what I was worried about very well and I haven't been clear.  My concern is the lack of hygiene if you're buying groceries from shops where people are crapping on pavements and masturbating outside, whilst wandering around filling up syringes.  This virus last on surfaces from anywhere between a few hours to several days.  It's airbourne.  It can get on to your clothes and get into your system through your mouth, nose, eyes and by you touching something someone else touched - even hours earlier.  We've lost 150 medical staff here now - that's people trained to hospital standards, following appropriate protocol, working in a sterile environment, without pre-existing medical conditions, dead - not ill from it and got better but in the ground now.  I'm following various people on Twitter and sharing information from ICU consultants, virologists, scientists, ICU nurses and so on, with paramedic friends, other parents who are used to treating multiple conditions in their kids and science brain type friends and the advice from every person is the same - stay home, and keep washing your hands.  There just isn't a safe way to go outside, at all.

We all have to go outside sometimes, I get that.  There's a balance between the possible risk of contracting the virus and going mad from isolation, poor diet, being stuck indoors with relatives, lack of exercise and so on.  Lots of people will be out and about all day and not catch it.  Lots of people will catch it, be a bit unwell and then be fine.  Many will catch it and not even know they have it, therefore passing it on to everyone else they come into contact with, directly or indirectly.  Plenty of young, fit and healthy people here are dying from it; the whole "oh it's only the sick and elderly" thing is being shown to be a myth and as I say, we've lost ICU consultants to it here - if they can catch it with all their knowledge and skill at keeping sickness at by then no-one is safe.

I get that you don't want local businesses to go under but Lighter, they're going to.  There's nothing more that any of us can do about that now.  If they deliver then getting deliveries will help them out but if they don't, you risking catching this and taking it home to your kids just isn't worth it.  You're in a similar situation to me, if you die there's no-one else there for your kids and they're at risk from the scary grandparents again.  You've got to keep yourself safe and it's not guns or pepper spray that will do that for you, it's staying home as much as possible and when you do go out, going to places that are as clean and quiet as possible.  If you get somewhere and there are naked people wandering about in the street get back in the car and go somewhere else.  It really frightens me to think of you going shopping somewhere where people are shitting on the pavement and walking around with syringes in their hands.  I've led a pretty open, varied life, I think, but I've honestly never seen anything like that and if I did I'd keep well away.  You can't save the world.  Honestly, Lighter, and I say this as your friend, and I do understand your concerns, I really do, but your girls don't need pepper spray training, they need to stay home, order in and if going out for food is the only option you need a list of safe places to visit, as early as possible in the day so there are fewer people around.  Avoidance is what's going to keep them safe right now.

You do need to let the changes change you, in my opinion, because it isn't murderers or drug addicts or homeless people you're at risk from, it's going shopping.  That thing we've all done for all of our lives without ever thinking about it or even wondering where what we're buying has come from a lot of the time, has suddenly become the most dangerous thing some of us are having to do.  It's a massive shift in what we're used to and it's huge to get our heads around but that is the change, and honestly, our response to that - if we feel we're at risk of contracting the virus - is to avoid going out wherever possible and when we do, going to the place that is cleanest, for the least amount of time possible, as infrequently as possible.  I think when we're frightened our natural instinct is to attack but in this instance I think the safest bet for anyone who is concerned is to hide. 

I'm not saying any of this in a critical or judgemental way; all of it is said because I care about you and the thought of you shopping in places where people, God love them, aren't able to follow even basic hygiene precautions really scares me.  I won't mention it again because I don't want to lecture or bang on about it but I really hope you don't go back there.

I am glad you found Yoga with Adriene :)  I love her stuff, I find it really helpful.  I really like Jason Stephenson's meditations; his anxiety ones I find particularly useful.  There is also another yoga guy -David Procyshyn - whose stuff is much more intense and serious and the videos are longer but oh my days, the release I get from them is huge.  He might be worth looking at.

Much love, Lighter!  Sorry it's a bit long.  Transatlantic social distanced cuddle coming your way
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