Mindfulness and codependence thread

[Twoapenny]

There is a shift when you realise you don't have to protect the kids anymore, isn't there?  So nice to see them grow into adults and do their own thing, figure out their own problems, be their own people.  And yep, abusers, in general, I think, create a narrative and stick to it, no matter what.  Evidence is ignored, self awareness non existent, willingness to just accept difference.  It's not there.  They live in their own disparate reality trying to pull people in and it's horrible.  I do wonder sometimes if it's how they react to the other person exposing them?  I don't know the right way to say it, but my mum didn't start her stuff with me until after I spoke out about the sexual abuse from my step-dad.  Was that similar with your inlaws, Lighter, that they came at you because you revealed the abuse at home?  I wonder if that threat to them of damaging their story is the scariest thing for them to imagine.  Maybe their story protects them from what they went through and people unpicking it might mean their own abuse experiences gets out.  I don't know.  Humans are complicated.  I do think my mum's narrative protects her from truth and that me stepping outside of that circle was a big threat to her maybe having to deal with her own demons.  Maybe she was just too scared to do that.  I don't know.

It did strike me when you talked about meditation that I think that 'going inside' yourself stuff is just too much at times.  I know sometimes when I do yoga I get flashbacks to being raped.  Usually I have to stop immediately, and then I tend not to do it for a long while.  Sometimes I think the same happens with meditation, you just get too close to what's in there and you can't always cope with that.  Maybe there was still too much in there ten years ago and another part of you knew not to go poking around in there?  Maybe it's safer for you now because of all the therapy and work you've done.  I think it is.  I'm glad things are safer for you now, Lighter xx

[sKePTiKal]

Well, I'm not Lighter...

but I will say Tupp, that I think you're on to something real; at least I've seen the same thing in my own family about "keeping silent".

And as for the flashbacks - that kind of thing stopped being a roadblock for me when I finally unpacked all of that and accepted it as "what happened" and that I did the best I could under the circumstances and no nothing about it was "right". But it is how life happens sometimes, no matter HOW WRONG it is. It can't be undone now; and while the injustice of it still makes me angry enough to chew nails... I just can't let it get in the way of NOW; who I am, how I choose to be and what I do; how I behave.

I simply recognize what triggered the memory - if anything - and say "oh, that again; OK" and move on.

[lighter]

My experience with PDs is they feel obligated to destroy anyone who exposes them, in any way they can manage, and they lose their minds when it happens.  Not pretty.  Usually scary, with the kids getting used as cannon fodder.

I can't say that's the exact case with my In Laws.... it wasn't just that.   More complicated and creepy, IMO.   Think crime syndicate with a bruised eye over the lawsuit.... their golden child looking foolish for having to pay a fair settlement in a divorce... they, particularly my MIL, couldn't abide that.  SO much crazier, now that I think about it.   

((Tupp)), it sucks you have flashbacks while doing yoga.  I hope you put that on the list, and deal with it in T.

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

My experience with PDs is they feel obligated to destroy anyone who exposes them, in any way they can manage, and they lose their minds when it happens.  Not pretty.  Usually scary, with the kids getting used as cannon fodder.

I can't say that's the exact case with my In Laws.... it wasn't just that.   More complicated and creepy, IMO.   Think crime syndicate with a bruised eye over the lawsuit.... their golden child looking foolish for having to pay a fair settlement in a divorce... they, particularly my MIL, couldn't abide that.  SO much crazier, now that I think about it.   

((Tupp)), it sucks you have flashbacks while doing yoga.  I hope you put that on the list, and deal with it in T.

Lighter

They sound horrible, Lighter, I'm glad you got away.  Let's hope they stay living in their crazy imaginary world and keep away from yours.  I hope your ankle  feels better soon as well, not easy keeping the weight off your feet! xx

[lighter]

The ILs got away with tormenting us through the legal system for years. The heinous fuckery began in 2006.... I guess it stopped in 2014... the year my mother died.  That's when the Judge ordered them to pay 80K or so of my legal fees, on top of what they paid to their own little monster attorney. Had to sting quite badly, IMO.

  It was the pivotal point where losing cases, for them, wasn't fun IF they couldn't starve us out while doing it.  It had always been worth it, up to that point, to lose... and they lost every single case, over and over, and appealed and asked for reconsideration, on and on... "Bites at the apple" as the attorneys would say.  Every case was like fighting 2 or 3 cases.  I've lost count, frankly.  I couldn't even guess how many cases there were.  I feel as though I've been educated in heinous criminal fuckery, performed through the court system. 

It happened exactly like I said it would, btw. That the HF would stop when the PDs had to start paying my legal fees.   My attorneys all said it would never happen, but it did. Yup yup yup.

The PDs are still looking our way.... I know they are.
MIL sends her cards. 
FIL sends the government to our land to make false accusations about whatever he complains about....  But that's OK. 
It can't last forever.   

Lighter

[lighter]

Therapist gave me this link... I really like the SOUNDS TRUE website, in general,  but here's a link on free trauma skills workshop.

https://product.soundstrue.com/trauma-skills-summit/register/

[Twoapenny]

Ooh Lighter, it sends chills down my spine reading that.  It's a form of torture, isn't it, and so telling that they only stopped doing it when they realised they couldn't bankrupt you.  And then to continue in whichever pathetic way they can - brrrr.  Makes me shiver.  Not least because  of the lack of respect it shows for your girls.  Whatever else went on, you were their mum, they were their grandparents.  Any normal person would want you to be able to parent well, for their sake.  But they do all that hoping to break you.  What scum.  And so wrong that the legal system can be used to harass people like that.  Is it partly because they had enough money to keep throwing at lawyers?  It's amazing what money can buy people.  There will be sighs of relief all round once they are finally no more xx

[lighter]

 Yes, Tupp.  The ILs have unlimited resources and access to crooked attorneys, with contacts in the good old boy club. 

It wasn't about lack of respect.  I'll post thought on that later.....I think I have to punch my way through a few rabbit holes and just get it out.

It just never seems like I get enough content INTO my therapeutic release of facts and happenings.

Of the truth.

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

(((((((((((((((((((((Lighter)))))))))))))))))))))))))  I'm sorry, I don't mean to poke around in old wounds.  Please don't feel you need to start heading into rabbit holes that might disturb the lovely peace you've got going on at the moment.  I know (from our situation) that the multiple threads around each incident all have stories of their own so unraveling them is never an easy job and often means things get left unsaid.  It's messy stuff.  I don't mean to bring things up for you, sorry, I am loving reading your stories of all the work you're doing at home and the nice food and garden projects xx

[lighter]

It IS messy, Tupp.  Not anything to do with you, dear friend.  Just.....a mess.

I do want to put some of it down here.  I've written and erased many posts.  They aren't enough to finish what I want to say and leave here.

The upswing is...writing gives me perspective and new understanding, which is part of being done. 

I also have this new consistent component of compassion for people I find difficult to remain neutral over.

There's an entirely new aspect....a new narrative wrapped around the " story" I've always operated under.....facts and really uncomfortable truths.

One narrative, that of doubting, enabling, ignorant, denying,minimizing third party opinionated person.....is standing in front of me, asking to be tended to.  Asking to be transformed into whatever lesson I can find in it.

Lots going on.  Tons of energy for big projects in the house. When the boy shows up, I'll ask for help with harder projects.

And....moving through the house is calm, no whipping myself with old threats and fears....just....flow.

(((Tupp)))  Please don't apologize.  I never doubt your goodness....never doubt your intentions.  Not ever.

Lighter

[lighter]

   From The DailyOM - I'm really resonating with this right now.  It sounds like you are too, Tupp.
   


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[bean2]

I tried breathing...and counting my breaths...and being mindful.  Letting my thoughts flit around and settle on whatever it was I was stewing over that moment.... My mindfulness state is about 30 seconds max

phew, that is a lot of work! 

Does anyone practice this daily?  I am struggling to form the habit and wonder if there are any tricks to getting started?

I also am thinking a lot about Pia Mellody's "negative control" and "resentment" as symptoms of codependence.  I can definetely see these traits in myself (and realize that after going through therapy I have decreased both tremendously).   But aren't these symptoms more prevalent in the Narcissistic rather than the Codependent?  Especially the Resentment, which manifests itself as Anger at the smallest slight.  One of the red flags to me has always been that an N shows you who they are when they so easily get angry, and hang onto resentment, and it is disproportinate to whatever you have said or done.  They will gaslight you with their anger, making you crazy (if you are codependent), such that you are months later stills scanning your memory for What exactly You did to Anger them.  Of course, nothing.  ugh

I was also wondering about the rage that the N feels when you cut off their N supply. 

Moving on from N abuse seems almost difficult if not impossible for a Codependent.  Just my random thoughts after several months of being cutoff from my N stepdaughter...

bean

[sKePTiKal]

Hmmmmm. Bean, interesting question.

I think what the N experiences isn't resentment - because they are convinced they're all powerful. While the co-dependent does experience resentment, and it builds up to explosion over petty things - just because of soft boundaries, refusing to say "no" sooner, and some learned helplessness/powerlessness.

Don't forget - an N will set up a doublebind so you're damned if you do; damned if you don't - and it discourages many people from feeling it's possible to even TRY to change things in the relationship or break the cycle. So resentment builds.

Yeah, N's get angry when they're ignored, dismissed out of hand, or laughed at. That's mortal sin in the N-system/worldview. (When they themselves are considered the only world that matters... LOL.) An N will pay lip service to the idea that there is a world outside of themselves, and play the intellectual social games of pretending to care - but at the root - they are the only thing that matters.

[bean2]

sKePTiKal,
Thanks for the response.

Ya...I was thinking about the resentment my N stepdaughter felt last Thanksgiving.  First, she wanted no one to be invited except her and her sister, my husband and I (and their 4 young kids).  My parents, my uncle and his girlfriend, my husband's nephew, wife and his kids - not invited.

So the stepdaughters showed up 4 hours apart.  The codependent one an hour early, the N one three hours late, as usual.  When the N stepdaughter got to our house, the conversation immediately changed to her biological mother (my husband's ex) and how horrible she is.

The anger and resentment was so strong.   But, you're right, that is more petty crap, when you just talk bad about everyone who is not in the room at the time. 

She also cried before her baby shower (it was after Thanksgiving) because her biological mother called and cancelled at the last minute.  The bio mom rarely comes to any events, and no one was expecting her to show up (except my N stepdaughter).  Again, the hurt and anger about being ashamed one's own mother did not show up to her daughter's shower...  Her and her sister proceeded to call everyone a "bitch" and I'm sure I was included in that too, behind my back of course.

My stepdaughters are always taking the crap with their own mom out on me, it seems.  I really need to stop being their punching bag.  How do you say to someone "stop talking crap about me behind my back?!"  or do you just say nothing, walk away, find other kids to befriend, and hope they have a nice life?

bean

[sKePTiKal]

Well... I was speaking generally. Your situation sounds a lot more complex than that... but then real life relationships are like that. It would take awhile to get up to speed, it sounds like.

But, for you... I say, with no expertise just experience... that if I were you, I'd decide to let them go do what they do and try to stay in a calm peaceful place about it all. It's certainly not your job to raise them; they sound old enough it's a bit too late for that. And as far as including them in family events... well, you know what they're likely to bring so why feel obligated? That's probably gonna require a long talk with Dad about it though... and compromises.

Does he back you up? Stand up for you when they're being obnoxious drama queens?