Coronavirus

[Twoapenny]

Thank you Lighter, Hops, G   Much appreciated.  Sorry that you are going through a sad phase as well, G.  And for the picture perfect instagram couple   I do know what you mean, it's easy to go to fantasy land when reality is really not something that's giving you much to feel inspired by or hope for.  I keep losing myself in box sets and day dreaming about places we can visit and live in - no practicality involved, I just like the idea of it.  I'm personally glad to be single just now; I think the stress of either another person home all the time because they can't work or worrying about what they're bringing in because they are going out to work would probably be getting to me by now.  I think it was just the long term reality catching up with me.  12 weeks of shielding was a joyous holiday.  Loved it, felt much better for it, son just blossomed and it was great.  Restrictions were eased but the virus was still present so we continued to stay home and it has still been fine.  I like being in, I enjoy not having to deal with people and stress every day and we've had our little visits to the library.  We both have lots to do at home so from a practical point of view it's really not been a problem.  But we're now six months in to it and it's clearly still here and still spreading - over 1,000 cases a day being diagnosed so although we can go out to certain places relatively safely (open parks for walks, people are being very careful on buses so we can get to the library and we are going to the cinema this week - lots of restrictions in place and very few people attending so I feel comfortable doing that and son is over the moon) we can't safely visit our friends or have them visit us and that's the bit that basically, we won't be able to do until, not only they get a vaccine, but until they get everyone vaccinated!  How long will it take to vaccinate 60 odd million people?  Will we be at the front of the queue because we're more vulnerable or will that put us to the back of the queue because we're not 'economically active' and so we're no use to the economy?  A little thought keeps popping into my head that I might be fifty before I hug my friends again and I keep pushing it out but it's loitering on the edges.  G, I loved what you said about it being 'a messy snarl of shadows'.  Perfect description.  There are things we can do but I don't particularly want to do them, it's hugging and spending time with people I love that I'm really starting to feel a need for.

Masks are being used pretty widely where we are, Hops.  I suspect more men know they're less likely to be harassed for not wearing one than a woman would be (and interesting that people observing more men not wearing them but more women refusing to wear them being posted on the internet).  We are still relatively low numbers here (27 cases out of a population of about 95,000) with no deaths in the last week, but we had zero cases a few weeks ago so I suspect the holidaymakers are bringing it with them, or people are picking it up when they venture further afield and bringing it back.  I do wish they'd just imposed 'staycation' only holidays on people.  I think we'd have seen cases drop much more quickly if people were having to stay in their local areas and just use local facilities.  It is what it is.  Anyway, the feelings are passing, I think sometimes the reality of it just kicks in - it's here to stay and we had a chance to get ahead of it that wasn't taken.  Frustrating, to say the least.  Thank you for the virtual hugs, everyone xx xx xx

[Twoapenny]

((((((((CB)))))))))) I hope your son and partner are alright.  Big kids are sometimes more of a worry than little ones because you can't stick them in front of the telly with some sweets and keep an eye on them.  I'm very lucky that my son is home with me.  Yes, I hear you on the eating out!  We're not big on that either but yep, I don't think I cooked a proper meal last week, it was all oven ready stuff because I just couldn't be bothered with the cooking and the washing up.  Our local chippie is doing deliveries though and their fish and chips are fab so we've got that.  Schools go back next week here so I think everyone is waiting to see what happens with that.  I am hoping that it doesn't lead to a big rise in cases but only time will tell.  We're in it for the long haul, aren't we?  I do think that really sunk in with me until just recently.  I hope you are doing okay CB xx

[Hopalong]

((((CB)))),
Any update on son's partner, and the rest of your children?

And more importantly, how are you? How is the quarantine time feeling or shifting for you too?

I think a lot of people are shifting into phase two of isolation, as Tupp described above....the first few months of solitude and quiet were a boon to many, and now there's like a new big wave of unease as the virus surges again. So many people are beginning to slowly reckon with a sense that maybe it's temporary, a lot of these profound life changes, and maybe they're not.

I don't know the answer, but I don't think anybody's psychologically prepared for a full shift. I certainly am not, or haven't been coping well with it lately.

This morning's our first COOL morning and as lovely as it is, I'm going to have to work hard not to freak out. As it gradually makes outdoor meetings less likely.

I know where you are you've still got warmth...how cold does it actually get? About when?

love
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Well, now I'm reading that the CDC's numbers were seriously overstated, as to the attribution of cause of death to Covid. Hol brought that up over the weekend too, from the standpoint that there is no consistent way of reporting into the aggregate database from each state... so the garbage in/garbage out data rule applies too.

More fog, uncertainty, vagueness and confusion.
I'll stick with stuff I know, I think: water is wet, sun is warm, my mosquito bite itches. LOLOLOL.

[Hopalong]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/deep-cleans-and-disinfecting-mists-might-not-keep-us-from-getting-the-virus-but-they-sure-make-us-feel-better/2020/09/05/f428b8ee-e965-11ea-97e0-94d2e46e759b_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_covidtheater-730am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

Short version: It's AEROSOL.

[Twoapenny]

I went to visit my sister earlier in the week.  Numbers where she and I live are pretty low and the kids were starting back to school this week, so we thought we'd try to get a meet up in before they all went back, in case the numbers shot up when that happened.  We had a really lovely time and I'm very glad we did it when we did as she's just messaged me to say they've already shut down two year groups and they only started going back Monday, on a staggered timetable (this isn't at a school her kids attend but one nearby).  Positive test results have risen very sharply over the last couple of weeks, much of it being attributed to people going away on holiday and bringing it back with them.  I'm kind of just avoiding all but unavoidable news about it now.  In all honesty the way governments, the media and many people have behaved just makes me feel that there's no hope for the human race so I'm concentrating on just doing my thing and not fussing about what anyone else is doing anymore.  That feels healthier to me just now.  We had zero cases across the county last week in July - first week in September we have 53.  It's not a huge number compared to many other parts of the country but it's bigger than zero.  Zero makes me happy.  It just feels like a kick in the teeth for all the people who've worked hard all the way through, whether by staying home or by continuing their jobs in shops, hospitals, bin collection and so on.  All that hard work undone.  We're lucky that our only outdoor things are either walking in open spaces or places where precautions are being taken and are easy to follow so we'll stick with that.

[Hopalong]

Hey Amber,

YOU'RE well grounded in reality, I know! But just in case you run across other misinterpretations like that on forums or social media and you want to boost the dialogue, this is a really helpful site:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/cdc-hasnt-reduced-covid-19-death-toll/

May fall on deaf ears, of course, since most of us have them stuffed with politics these days (Note to self....). It is frustrating how politicized the pandemic has become. Tragic and deadly.

One reason I fixate on sources was when I worked for Prevention Health Books we were trained for months in proper sourcing about health claims. (Interesting, because when the company began they published a lot of uncritical, unstudied claims --"drink this herb tea to cure....275 different ailments" -- "everything alternative is better for you than everything conventional/Western" --etc.). But years ago they smartened up and made every single article or book chapter science- and evidence-based. It was a requirement and they took it very seriously. We interviewed loads of top-level researchers, doctors, credentialed health experts and footnoted every single declarative statement about anything we recommended you should put IN your body or do WITH your body, for health. Natural and alternative were fine, but even without Western-standard evidence, we were willing to add it in if something was known to be safe, even if the mechanisms weren't well understood (like acupuncture). If something was merely opinion or anecdotal, but known to be safe, we made clear with the language that it wasn't rigorously proven though it MIGHT or MAY be beneficial.

I ate it up. I loved the responsibility of using language that way, and believing with the books that we were helping people (as well as making profit).

hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Well numbers are rising very rapidly here again now, not so much in the part of the country I'm in but other areas are really being hammered.  It is apparently back in the care homes, having been almost completely eradicated there, and schools are closing as quickly as they re-open.  Hospitals have apparently been told to prepare for a steep rise in admissions over the next few weeks and winter is around the corner.  I'm hoping it's a bit of a blip and it will settle down again but we are getting ready to settle in for a long winter, in all honesty.  I'm just keeping my fingers crossed it doesn't get too bad again.

[Hopalong]

Fingers, toes and all hairs crossed here too.

Steady marching rise in cases, hospitalizations and fatalities. We're a multi-cultural huge-university/small city surrounded by very rural communities, so you can imagine the difference between mask-wearing in town and outside it. AND, because we don't have enough jobs for rural areas, a huge percentage of city jobs are filled by county residents. So we're entirely intermingled as a district.

I am anxious about the housecleaner I hired, who comes once a month. It's a big relief but also a concern. She agreed to wear a mask but I vacate while she works (and she had her mask below her nose when I met her...more than once). I can't promise myself she'll wear it the whole time though I hope trusting her is okay (feels like putting my life in a stranger's hands). I know nothing about her household but she seems neither hostile nor serious about masks. My doctor said to stay out for two hours AFTER she leaves, to give the micro-droplet plumes time to settle...he said they linger in the air for hours. So the challenge of where to go during winter is afoot. Worked out fine for her two visits so far but I'm doubtful.

I may give up and stay in my bedroom for six hours, asking her to do that room and the bathroom first. When I wander around town in my car, I have only a friend's backyard for peeing, which she's fine with. Easy in summer but winter would be weird. It's hard to plan this right without a pod!

Maybe M and I will be mellow enough that I can spend one day a month over there. Or a new friend or existing friend with fierce virus vigilance would be open to it too. There will be an answer.

hugs
Hops
PS--ordered more disposable masks and will leave a fresh one out for her each time. She might be wearing (poorly) the same one over and over which would also defeat the point.

[Twoapenny]

That is difficult, Hops, and it is my concern about mingling with people.  I was fine with my sister as she's been shielding all this time as well so low risk, but other friends have wanted to get together and they're not shielding (in fact the opposite, out more than I would be even without a pandemic lol).  So being with them concerns me more.  That is hard for you, six hours is a long time to fill up, especially once it gets cold so a bedroom day does sound the most logical way to deal with it.  I did read a good article today that there are thoughts by researchers that mask wearing is making the viral load weaker, so people are catching it but not getting so ill from it (which is what they think might be happening here, case numbers are up but the death rate is much lower).  No comfort to anyone who gets it, obviously, but I would hope more evidence that masks are making a difference would make more people wear them (although I suspect many would claim any claims made were fabricated so perhaps not!).  It is a worry although I'm trying not to - we're doing all we can and we're lucky in our area that most people seem to be doing the same.  I hope things settle down in your area soon, are the universities all open again now? xx

[lighter]

Hops:
You didn't ask for advice so I'll say this....
A maid who believes in masks and virus protection would wear her mask properly.

This maid TOLD you shed wear her mask to get the job, imo.

The way she wire her mask tells you she doesn't believe in wearing a mask and likely will tear it off when she's in private.

Are there out-of-work go getters, with amazing energy, attention to detail AND your shared belief in virus protection?

It would be one thing if it was her own health she jeopardized....but it's yours too.

Paying someone for hours, days and weeks of worry seems self defeating to me.

I'd certainly talk to her if I didn't replace her.

Lighter
P.S. Think of flu season coming...
every sniffle....every cough you'll be wondering if she left a vapor trail in your home. And....DID she?

[cats paw]

  I saw The Rock (actor) saying he and his family recovered from covid, and he said it was one of the toughest things he had endured. He said they had gotten together with close trusted friends, who were asymptomatic at the time.

  I think there are a lot of people who are "neither hostile nor serious about masks." The virus has many useful idiots, witting and unwitting. My own housekeeper has not been here for a long time. She seems to "get it" about the virus, but doesn't "get it" enough to be in my home for any extended period of time. She and her family have been going to restaurants indoors. Cases are rapidly rising in my area, and no one seems to be observing capacity limits. Just because things are allowed doesn't mean they are safe, much less correctly implemented.

  There are no guarantees of safety, and we all have to deal with certain risks. I am even concerned for 2 weeks after dh or I have any contact with masked health care providers. Though having a nanny cam in every room would verify that she kept her mask on, it wouldn't be a zero risk.

  It's really hard to have limitations and to need help at any time, much less during a pandemic.  I really miss being able to do what I used to, (even though I intensely, intermittently hated domestic chores due to their connotations in my mind) whenever I chose to or needed to. I was so glad when dh asked why I didn't get a housekeeper when my back was getting worse. Now, I have to muddle along as best I can.

  No perfect choices. You've spoken with your doctor, and it sounds like you have (almost) made your choice.

  Domestically challenged sister-in-arms,
  cp

[Hopalong]

This discussion helped a LOT, guys! Thank you all.

Tupp, thanks. I share your worries about mask behavior--at another level when I think I need to bring a person indoors for an extended time.

Lighter, you described her attitude astutely when I was trying to PR (public-relation) it to myself. (realityismyfriend....) My neighbor is more casual than I am and has gotten in trouble with her hires before. So I'm just uncertain I can trust this woman to be serious. She's pleasant and got the cleaning done, but I want to feel at ease about her, and I don't.

Cat I hear you. You get it too. The real deal is, I'm going to have to discipline myself as soon as injury heals which can be a couple months, is to get serious about doing all I can do myself, a little a day. I can do more than I have, that's for sure. And once my body's able, the remaining issue is corralling the ADD enough to see a chore through.

All will be well either way, but I think I'm going to let go of the new person and hunt for another. Have a query out to my previous dog-sitter who's much in demand for cleaning and takes science and evidence and experts as real and worthy of believing. (Incredible to say, isn't it.) My doc is very smart and he told me the new emphasis is less on disinfecting (though that matters too) and MOST on wearing masks ALWAYS when around others not in your household...but even a housecleaner in an empty house should, because of newer research on how the microdroplets are exhaled with every breath in wide plumes that linger aloft for several hours. So an asymptomatic carrier near you, or who was where you are now walking/breathing an hour or so previously, can give you Covid.

That got through to me! Back in my quarhog hole. But with a plan. Thanks again everybody.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

I'm glad you plan to hire someone else, Hops.  I'm picturing a retired Army wife with 5 boys.....and a no nonsense attitude about masks.

Really....being in the house while it's cleaned means you can make sure the mask stays on.  No guessing or worrying, kwim?

[Hopalong]

Yes, thanks Lighter.
Plan B or C if I can't secure someone else is to stay here while she cleans and pop out of my room randomly, and just make sure she knows I mean it about the mask and ABOVE the nose.

So odd a concern to figure out living with!

(I'd ask her to clean my room first but the issue would linger....as I don't want to be hovering over her in every space she's in. Not a perfect answer yet but I'm working on it all....)

Hops