Author Topic: Friendship Moments: good or bad  (Read 159375 times)

lighter

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Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Reply #165 on: August 11, 2025, 09:31:40 AM »
How's the energy, around Poet friend, these days, Hops?

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Reply #166 on: August 11, 2025, 03:35:00 PM »
Thanks for asking, Lighter.

These days, the way I feel about her is a little exasperated, a little sad, but a lot less needy (on my end). There are lonely times when I feel a wish for the old best-friend responsiveness. I do still have attachment to (dependency on, though now diluted) her that I'm gradually unraveling. The more I do let go, the better I feel.

It surprises me how deep it went for me. Long history of fear of women and hurt from women (mostly when young) left its web fragments in me. Even though my biggest delights now are because of the gift of women friends, the old fear can still stir.

But since the meltdown I've realized how much of her empathy feels like performance, so I imagine her consolation and then realize it's not very solid. On the other hand, I don't want to overreact and distrust whatever's genuine in it. She had such miserable experiences that I'm not willing to judge her for how she learned to cope.

I'm mostly disappointed in myself, for floating along on feelings ever since we met, and not bringing my critical thinking along. Then again, no point in judging myself either. It's all coping.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Reply #167 on: August 14, 2025, 09:00:51 AM »
You see what's there......with wider perspective, boiling l down facts, sans judgement.

It's everything I wish for myself. 

"To see with eyes unclouded by hate."
Prince Ashitaka


Your self compassion shines through.  Maybe, it's the most important piece.

Lighter

 


Hopalong

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Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Reply #168 on: October 14, 2025, 01:39:21 PM »
Good feelings on the friendship front right now. I'm grateful.

After 3-4 years, I rejoined the "beach week" group of UU women, most of whom I've known for years. There were a dozen of us, working happily together on great meals, puttering around, and having wonderful conversations one-on-one or in little organic groups. Clumps of chatter. Lots of laughter.

The house is gorgeous and directly on the ocean. I was so excited by the sky I watched it more than the waves. The clouds (storm front), the changing light, a crazy parasailer (if that's what a guy on a surfboard being whipped back and forth by a kite for hours is called). Time was suspended, love evident.

May have told you that one reason I stopped going years back was that a woman --I'll call her L -- with a bipolar daughter with whom I'd bonded in some long talks about our Ds, had lost her D to suicide. We were once in one of those mini-groups and although I misinterpreted it at the time, she said something in front of other people that hurt so much I couldn't breathe. Waving her arm at me she said, "everyone knows YOU'RE a failed mother!".

It wasn't until riding down this time with another friend, who's wise and experienced in many ways, that I unpacked it. L is brilliant, highly verbal, and I'd always enjoyed listening to her because of that. At the same time, her personality is sardonic and often sarcastic (I didn't mind that either). And I think what she was actually doing was in some odd way trying to indicate solidarity with me, when she said The Thing. I forgave her immediately at the time because she is grieving, but then retreated in fear. Fear of Groups Of Women rose up, and I lost that happy connection for years. This trip, it was healed. We're not cozy-friends any more, L and I, but we're not at all enemies and I felt really happy that she trusted me again. I could tell she knew something had been wrong, but she never addressed it so I didn't either. I just sat with her and two others and listened compassionately. She needs to talk about her lost D, and this group for her is one of her safe places to process it. I was glad she seemed at peace with me being a listener.

Sad news about another friend, David. He's the widower of the woman who was a voluntary conservator for me during my court fight with Sociobro. She did a mammoth audit of Nmom's accounts going back 5 years, which proved me blameless, despite my lack of skill with math and financial jargon. In fact, she found that during those years I'd made a total of about $80 in mistakes. She died in November. She also was the sister of "Gennulman" whom I used to talk about here, who died of his alcholism a few years ago, but was an incredible support to me during that court terror. I feel I owed that family my survival, and David was just the kind husband and excellent cook and welcoming presence while she and I worked together on my case. They are/were all brilliant, including their adult kids.

So, the sad thing is that David told me he's been diagnosed with glioblastoma, the same brain tumour that killed John McCain and Ted Kennedy. It's a vicious cancer and once diagnosed you're automatically in Stage 4. He's already had heart surgery, is on dialysis to survive his kidney failure, and is dealing with it with great grace. He's indicated he wants me in his close circle of support and includes me in updates. He asked me to join him and his daughter and her partner when they were recently here. Poor guy is alone in an enormous house, staring down the barrel, but is being rational and thorough about planning for home care etc, as long as it's possible. My heart aches for him but I am glad for the chance to support, and I can still make him laugh. Took Pup over and that was mildly hysterical, because his D had brought a CAT, which David forgot to tell me. My little terrierist really really wanted to murder it, so he's staying home this afternoon while I go see David.

Poet and I are doing better. I reach out less and she has expressed some irritation that I'm not always available, which almost amuses me. Codependent No More, I say. But she's happier, with lots of new writer friends. She recently lost one of her four brothers, and is presenting a little talk at a memorial and academic gathering in honor of her famous parents (anthropologists) in NOLA next month. It's good to see her writing up a storm, involved in creative and meaningful things. I'm fine talking with her and not talking with her. Imagine.

Thanks, friends, for reading all this yak.

Forgot to tell you that I started attending an online Zoom for "SMART Recovery" which I'm liking a lot. I want to reduce my wine drinking, afternoons alone, and still have a 30-year nicotine gum addiction. No stressing, no pressure, no labels or creeds--it's just good to hear voices of people who've lived through Such Stuff, and with an intelligent and effective presenter. Moderate drinking is accepted, nobody's got an absolutist view. There's a lot of variety in why people turn up there, and I'm hearing some very thoughtful things. It's maybe a little bit like group therapy, which I really benefitted from many years ago but could never find access to here.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Reply #169 on: October 22, 2025, 12:36:25 PM »
You sound really solid, (Hops.)

When the energetic charge dissipates.... we're healing, I guess.

I noticed the same while cleaning out my desk today.  Picture a huge carved Ponderosa sized, dark wood L shaped affair, but with bookshelves to the ceiling and antique postage, and antique ribbon holding things with tons of storage space, fur thems that hoard art supplies....add 6, very full, legal boxes, generations of family photos, books and assorted cutters, hole punches and hanging file holders, yet to be installed on backs of antiques, which create a wall of privacy .....and you have the picture.

No reactivity, at all, today.  Just organizing and pitching, repeat.

DD24 needs a place to study, and she'll have it.

The addition of the water closet actually created a more inviting space, if that's possible.  Cozied up the desk space....closer to hall and stairs.  No wasted space, where once there was a dumping ground for things to deal with.

I'm astonished.....eek.  Meant to post this on my thread.  Apologies, Hops.  I'd like an update, when you're ready.

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Reply #170 on: December 09, 2025, 05:12:48 PM »
So, Poet invited me to be a presenter at a Detroit Poetry Vespers (online). Just another Zoom. Hah!

We did a rehearsal (about 8 poets) a few nights before, and had a script, the link, etc. So on the night, I couldn't get fully onto Zoom! I also was juggling having a split view on my monitor (program/scripts on one side, Zoom gallery on the other), since I've left my new printer in its box due to Fear of Tech. Just have to set it up!!!! So the host wound up reading my first poem for me, though I managed to appear for my second. Still a good experience.

As for the friendship story, I spotted sticking points I haven't made complete peace with about Poet. Critical thinking is not supposed to be just critical of another, right? So, bitch or critical mind engaged, I realized more things I don't like about the personality though I still love the person.

It was like the "Poet show." In rehearsal the poet-cohost asked if she would be able to drop reading one of her multiple poems to make room for another poet, and she objected in her most aristocratic accent. The host caved, so Poet read about 50% more time than others. Her poems are fine, but not traffic-stopping, imo. As a cohost, I think she should've made it more about lifting up other voices. Sigh. I fear using the N-word (not that one) about her, but if ego on display fits....

I wasn't impressed. Maybe she saw it, I dunno. Anyway, she called me the next night just gushing about a new anthology project she wants to do, about visionary obscure poets, and told me fairly ponderously that she'd like to invite me to be part of it. HELL NAAAAAAH. I know what that means: I copyedit it, support her through endless idea sessions, and she floats on her self-image as Sage. I edited her entire damn book a few years ago, gratis, with barely a thank you.

What I'm pleased with, dunno if this is healthy or not, is that I feel utterly clear about it. It was for me verrrrry obvious that she was reaching out to re-connect because she has great radar, and senses I'm just not as available and vibrating to her tunes as I used to be. She's trying to pull me back in and I will not go.

When she called she was near tears, expressing love and appreciation, and I'm sorry but I just view it as a reflex: Don't lose Hops' attention! Keep her focused on MEEEEEEE.

I know that sounds awful and maybe it IS awful. Or awfully ungenerous. But it's how I saw it and how I felt about it. Not my circus, and I don't have to ride around her ring on the back of a pony.

Well, that was kind of poisonous. Sorry, all.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Reply #171 on: December 10, 2025, 01:16:53 PM »
Lol, Hops.  You're apologizing for your refusal to be used..... refusal to make nice, regardless of your boundaries being trampled.....
apologizing for expressing your "poisonous" mental gymnastics, which are just normal, healthy noticings, IME.

As I told my nice neighbor.....
It's time you enter your villain era. 
That means you'll practice self care and enforce boundaries, which feels like being "the bad guy," but's just about "normal" behavior (for a man.)

And, what if you shared your true feeling with poet?  I'm not saying ng you bottled them up.  I'm just saying.....what if?

What would it look like?

What would it mean?

If it's uncomfortable.....why do you think that is?

Is there an opportunity here?

So happy to see your update, Hops. 

If your printer is still in the box.....get it out and we'll have tea while contemplating the directions and extra parts, and wishing Amber was here.

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Reply #172 on: December 10, 2025, 03:28:16 PM »
LOL. I definitely need a resident Amber. Got to go buy a shed to put her in....

Interesting question you posed, about telling Poet my true feelings about her eagerness to pull me into her project. I think the simplest thing will be the most comfortable... though I'm not terrified of confrontation, I don't seek it out, either. With her, it'd be painful. And there's nothing much needed other than to say, "My own writing projects are way behind, so I don't want to get involved in another one right now." The boundary is just "No, thanks."

My writerly opinions, I'd keep to myself. She does have some inspiring visions about the world, but I honestly find that her positioning of herself, that authoritative and somewhat condescending voice, makes my little poems run for the hills on their little paper legs.

I like my poems. Not all of them, some are clunkers, but there's where my brain wants to be. That and the long-neglected novel. THIS is the motivation I need to get control of my home.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Reply #173 on: December 10, 2025, 05:29:13 PM »
And thank you, Lighter, for "Normal, healthy noticings."

That really set off a glow in me.

hugs,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Reply #174 on: December 11, 2025, 04:08:11 PM »
And thank you, Lighter, for "Normal, healthy noticings."

That really set off a glow in me.

hugs,
Hops

No problem, Hops.  I've been wrestling with similar noticings, and questions too.

It's not really about others dismissing my needs. 

It's about my needing them to change..... it's about accepting their disdain for what it is, without needing it to be anything else.

Now.....
what IS it? 

It feels confuuuuuusing......
 before the fog clears, yup yup yup.

There's clarity coming, Hops. 
For us both.

Lighter


sKePTiKal

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Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Reply #175 on: December 12, 2025, 09:54:56 AM »
Well, I think it's going around. Seems a lot of people are dealing with the realization that some of their "friends" take more than they give. And if a relationship isn't nourishing, but instead is depleting one... maybe that person isn't really a "friend". And maybe people's definition of a "friend" is changing.

Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Reply #176 on: December 12, 2025, 10:28:01 AM »
I hear that!

For me, loyalty is a hard thing to unseat. So, if a present friendship goes sour, which a few have done over time, I have to teach myself that peeling gently away from it is not unkind to either person. I often ponder medical metaphors...if one needs lifesaving surgery, the incision and recovery pain are good and necessary things. I can fear the change in my self-perception (More Alooooone!) or loss of a source of support, but ultimately, my Poet trials have taught me a lot. We'll see how it goes; I know I'm different with her and her radar is pinging.

You taught me a lot. And dogs. And neighbors. And women's groups. And men. And nature. And aging. And and and and and....

Today, speaking of friendship, I'm meeting a writer pal for lunch at a diner and Pup is spending the afternoon at Dog Camp while my house gets cleaned by the angel I worry about (undocumented immigrant, expecting her fourth child). I love E and worry about her and her family. I'm also having irrational grandma fantasies about her child. I'll tell her she can bring the baby here to work whenever she needs to. Have also asked my church if she might be included on a "giving tree" we do during the holidays. Today I pay her quadruple for the holidays, because she deserves it. If that dents the savings, so be it.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Reply #177 on: December 12, 2025, 11:38:40 PM »
Loyalty.
Patterns
People....sometimes men..... sometimes women....... sometimes children, who're kind to some, toxic to others....sometimes flipping back and forth.
People, who allow toxic behavior......invite it back, over and over, despite repeated trauma inflicted by the charming, charismatic, and toxic people who will never ever ever ever commit to them, but still, they're allowed back, over and over.....what IS that comfort?  I dislike calling it comfort.  Feels wrong.  Feels exhausting to contemplate.  People, surprise me all the time, with the energy they have for unhealthy people, skin peeled off feels like homeostasis to some?  Well, ya....it can.  It does.
Pawing back past relationships, however shallow and meager a meal......over and over, likely kept as backup supply, as coping strategy......the discarded ones, lacking enough self esteem to accept the truth, and withdraw their hope/energy/whatever it is they believe might change, even though the past 30 or 40 years of deeds, facts and evidence are plain as day.  This person will never change, but still.  Hope.  Blah.
Wounded people wounding others.
The kind empaths, attracted to the overtly wounding people.....over and over. 
Exhausting, but filling enough.

Patterns....all kinds....all around us.... sometimes, often, our own patterns.


I feel next T session will be T telling stories.
Story time, yup yup yup.
(I feel I might could figure it all out, if only I gained enough emotional distance.) Sometimes.

I want an......overview....simplification I can digest..... to extrapolate from.  I want it to make sense....square up.
No.
 I need it to make sense....today.
That's what I get for seeking quiet time, and meditation.  It changes things.

All the sudden I'm sick to death of the patterns....repetition....the tired plodding in habitual formation. With food, relationship, actions and people...... everything.

I want to shake everything up......just......shake it. 

Do NOTHING reactive......
but choose, select, discern in every moment.....mindfully?

But.....
 with a vengeance. Ya.

That feels.....
 just about right, as does the discomfort, of contemplating radical change.  Just bc it's sickening, doesn't mean it isn't the best next handful of uncomfortable possible choices.

When the discomfort of staying/repeating patterns, outweighs the comfort of changing/leaving....
one changes/goes.

Contemplating radical change, sans permission, understanding or approval from others, is a natural progression of the villain arc....I know it is.

Like a nauseating mental roller coaster.....plodding up, then screaming downhill....barely hanging on.... sometimes coming off the rails.....by accident.....not even trying.

Is everyone thinking bipolar here?

I digress.

What happens when one commits, with some measure of intestinal fortitude, to the unfamiliar and uncomfortable, sans the familiar plodding back to familiar resets?  Just letting the familiar go, as the new reset?

Feels like..... increased meditation, and discomfort, coming to a friend near you.

No matter where one goes.....there one is.  It's not location one switches up.... it's altering brain pathways, and choices....after restoring choice.  After noticing the absence of choice.

I miss Changing today.

Lighter







Hopalong

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Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Reply #178 on: December 13, 2025, 01:30:16 PM »
You're bold and brave, Lighter, as well as creative. What people outside of you are up to drains you sometimes and you just wish they'd GET it, amirite?

I'm cowardly and I know it. I always have been the bunny wabbit twembling in the bushes. My social strength has faded a lot in recent years, probably a natural part of aging plus my own tapes, so to speak. I don't worry so much about it meaning anything, but I notice I'm a lot more tentative about going out, and isolate by instinct. I'm more at peace with my rabbity side. Isolating isn't clever, but I'm learning to make "go mingle with humans" something like flossing teeth. Don't like having to do it, but teeth feel great afterward.

Like when I searched for a dog (here she goes, reverting to her obsession). Pooch, my soul dog, was highly sensitive too. Soulful and intuitive to an amazing degree. Now I live with a little aggressive warrior who is so driven by his drives that he is an exhausting companion a lot of the time. But there's always an hour or two every morning and evening when he's pressed up against me with such sweetness and trust, despite our battles, that he's worth it. Plus, he makes me laugh every single day. He has the kind of crazy face that makes people break into smiles when we pull up at a light and he's got his face stuffed out the car window. I love seeing that happen. Some glum driver will look over and just break into a huuuge, uncontrollable grin. Pup's face is SO funny (and cute), he doesn't have to try!

IwishIwish I knew how to post a photo. It just don't work when I click the image thing.

As much as the negative inner chitchat, I still feel joy, gratitude, and the most important thing to me, wonder. I tell myself, good lord, look where you LIVE! The world is absolutely AMAZING! I look at a shrub or a mulberry and feel ASTONISHED. The wonder is loud inside.

My negative "tapes" are scratchy, worn and a lot less loud, and I'm a lot less interested in listening to them these days. I'm interested and excited about myself when I write something good. Ultimately, I'll die with a wrinkled poem in my hands, and that will be peaceful for me.

The feeling that dominated my life for many years was anxiety. Depression is in there but now I watch for that like I do a virus: wash my hands a lot, avoid crowds. And so my anxiety is way softer than it used to be. The worst "tape" was like an endless argument with myself and a nonstop fear loop. Fear of being as alone and vulnerable and rejected as I felt as a child. Reflecting on that I realize the depth of sadness I was stuck in, year after year after year. I was also brought up in a shaming, sin-obsessed religion, which was like drinking Drano.

I believed with all my heart that I needed the acceptance and affection of others. Well I did, really, because humans need humans. But I remember lying on my bed as a child with my heart just broken, because of being bullied or worse, ostracized, at school. My sensitivity was massive. People would of course call it "over sensitive" and I struggled and struggled to try to figure out how much was allowed. The pain would get so big that if I'd understood back then that there was such a thing as suicide, I might've tried it. Thank heaven I didn't know.

Now I know how Popeye felt ("I yam what I yam.") I feels what I feels and I can always write about it. And with more years, I can see that wiring as both a gift and a curse. Spent enough time cursing myself for being wired the way I am, and now I'm a lot less worried about my nature. If somebody asks me how I am, I tell them the truth. Some are startled, but I've also found a few folks who enjoy direct, self-revealing honesty. When I'm not afraid of people, I do let out a wry sense of humor, which my Dad had too. He would make subtle funny faces for me that I took in as pure love. So maybe humor's a protective function I didn't recognize as such. It brings me pure joy to make people laugh.

Volunteering with the older-oldsters is probably the most healing thing I do. I feel purpose and joy when I shepherd some wobbly person with a walker who's lived a remarkable life. I've noticed that I can come back from a two-hour service feeling drained, though.

I'm just rambling along, Lighter. I see your monologue in this post as remarkable, and it goes deep. I think it might be your own "I can always write about it" way of caring about yourself, your inner tapes. So much of it is focused on others that I admire your ability to imagine correcting and training those who are clearly harming themselves. I wonder if you feel your responsbility for others' well being and/or progress feels good for you, or sometimes is a burden? Are you allowed both? Is it just a matter of keeping it in balance? Sometimes on, sometimes unplugged?

With renovations and decor, the new lingo that fascinated me most was "curating." It's a new tilt on self expression. My brain's not orderly enough to do that, as I'm more splash and dash, even with writing. Visually, I love things and colors that express rather than impress. Largely, the latter is either beyond my skills or not very interesting to me.

Thank you for trying to do that for me sometimes. It works!

hugs,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Reply #179 on: December 13, 2025, 01:54:14 PM »
PS, two things:
Your description of your desk was utterly enticing, and I wish I could see it. But really, you gave such a great verbal picture, I did.

I don't think "bipolar" about you and I'm not qualified to know, but your T might be interested in the question. Despite my D's agonies, I know that bipolar is treatable with the right Rx and many people live peacefully with it. Many years ago, when I asked to see a medical record, I noticed that one counselor had noted: "Possible bipolar?" I went on to see various other therapists for a long time, and none ever suggested it again. But in the back of my mind I wonder: Did part of my D's vulnerability to this come through my genes, like my ADHD? And the mental disorders on my Nmom's side of the family? And the spectrum stuff from her Dad's side? Could be. That's nature for ya. Wiring wiring wiring. I'm believing nature trumps (pardon the expression) nuture a lot more these days.
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."