Sticking up for yourself vs lashing out

[Anonymous]

mum:

I think mudpuppy is on to something here for your "friend".  Just tell her next time you have to check with your daughter and she is the one to determine if you can come out to play.  LOL

[vunil]

Just wanted to clarify my previous post. I will submit another example. I have two ice cream cones, a chocolate and a vanilla. I ask you which one you want. You take one and I ask you why. According to EST theory, there is only correct response. It is, "Because I want it."

This works well if you are perfectly healthy and rational.

For many years of my life I picked ice cream cones that cheated on me and insulted me.  I still have trouble not picking ice cream cones that don't tell me what to do and refuse to listen to my point of view.  And even now I have trouble telling which ice cream cone is the one I want.  When an ice cream cone disappoints me, I don't know whether that means it will always disappoint me or if it is just normal variations in my ice cream relationships.
And I am really bad at explaining to ice cream cones what I would like differently, in a way that works well.  And I am not always able to predict when a conversation really won't work at all.


(note the metaphor really breaks down once I start trying to have a conversation with an ice cream cone).


I understand EST works great for you, and on this site people have all sorts of life philosophies and guiding principles-- we come together despite that and try to respect each other.  It's just that something in the tone of your message sounded a little bit "it's very simple" and maybe even a little "I am here to teach you."  I responded negatively to that because I think it's ok that folks here are struggling with these issues-- the issues just aren't as simple as picking which ice cream cone to eat.  


(Which, take it from a pregnant lady, is a very easy choice-- eat both!).

[mum]

Vunil. You're funny. Pregnant and funny, an excellent combination.  That sense of humor will come in handy in the next phase of your life!!

I think I can relate on your extension of the ice cream cone analogy.  And I also know what you mean when someone tells you something that sounds like "just do a, b,c and viola!!!" problem solved!  I'm sure it was meant to be helpful, but yeah, if it's so easy, why are we all here?  No, we are not morons........it's just not particularly easy.

I told a friend today to "just let it go" regarding her N ex and after a pause we both cracked up.  Of course she knows that's what she should do, and hopefully will........but it's the meantime, it just feels bad. We all know that if we didn't care what these N's did to us, we'd be just fine. Duh!

Some days are better than others, and some days, the pain is right back there in our faces and we don't seem to have come very far at all.
And at that point, I do believe it is best to go eat some ice cream.
The hope that one day we will heal is what keeps us sane.  The understanding that it's a day by day thing keeps us compassionate.

[phillip]

What is that line about knowing what we can change and leaving or accepting what we can't?  I would like to be in Canada right now.  For the first time in my life I am being forced to work patiently to accomplish goals.  It is not in my nature to do so, to be this way.  I am learning something.  It has been a year and a half.  Hopefully I will be there in 6 months.

I have been taught to avoid my own drama.  Safety vs. risk is the game.  Safety creates a smaller breadth of experience.  Risk expands it.  The confining box has been of my own making.  I do not believe that we are here to cower, anticipating the next blow.  Make no mistake, I struggle with my fears like anyone else.  I apologize if I came off like I have all the answers.

[sleepyhead]

I have two ice cream cones, a chocolate and a vanilla. I ask you which one you want. You take one and I ask you why. According to EST theory, there is only correct response. It is, "Because I want it."

What? You mean that the only correct response is not: "I took the vanilla one because I know that you really want the chocolate one"? I'm learning to use both responses, both only the latter when I choose to and actually want to, so I guess that would be the same as the first?

[phillip]

The issue is not so much about motive, even kindness vs. selfishness.  It is about how we all do this little mental dance of justifying our actions, thoughts and feelings. One of my often repeated questions has become, "What are you defending?"  I can speak for no one else, but I personally grew up in a household where I was always on the defense.  I have been taught how to do something different.  The assertiveness has replaced the defensiveness, but not before a period of somewhat unreasonable selfishness.  For me, this represented a risk in order to know myself and my boundaries.  It has been said that the truth is always in the middle, as the Buddha espoused the middle way.  Ultimately, we all get to take our share of life and experience, and nothing is free.  We pay for it all and we deserve the best.  For myself, recognizing that my defensiveness was based on low self-esteem, was the beginning of a journey toward personal growth.  Just some random rambling.  

Back to the ice cream cone.  The issue is not about the response.  The issue IS the motive behind the response.  Consider this.  YOU are now the one asking the questions.  That is your responsibility to your self.  It is the responsibility of others to answer or decline compliance.  It is about exercising the freedom to be and do what is consistent with your nature.  It is about having the courage to explore who and what you are, truly.  This has been my journey.  All my opinion of course.  I do not have to be a nice person, I choose to be that, most of the time.  For me, there IS a big difference.

[Portia]

I was wondering about how to balance standing up for yourself with being mean or hurting someone's feelings. I think I have been a little (or a lot??) insensitive lately in my attempts to stand up fo myself and I sent a mean letter telling someone who had done something icky to me how horrible it was but I did it in an insensitive way and now I feel like maybe this is going to be a big thing to learn.
Love Bloopsy

Hiya Bloopsy, how are you doing? What do you think about what folks have said here?

Want to tell us why you think you were insensitive? (Because I have a hard time imagining you being cruel and I wonder if you’re being too hard on yourself.)

Take care Bloopsy. Hope to see you soon. P

[Anonymous]

I like how you can be nice without having to . I let Firestorm my inner child lash out at Eddie about what he did, I want to say what I let him do, but I was paralysed at the time and I felt like i couldn't stop him, I let her curse at him and say fuck you thanks a lot.

[Anonymous]

That was me Bloopsy above. I feel like a horrible person and I want to sie. I don't  like my mom I am not a bad person the voices in my head are not me I thought they were but I looked at thenm harder and it dispersed into a monster I dreamed it was followoing me it was them not me if I admit that then I have to leave them so I keep thinking it is me is it me where is that place where you are not hurt some of the pwople at the SIA meeting were the same had a heard time not retraumatizing themselves I am afariad this is horrible sorry for this horrible message I don't understand why I have to be the bad one and I am not I think that everyone thinks that I am bad and no good and I look at them and feel that they are disgusted any small kindness means that I am maybe not as bad as I thought I was and I am getting tired of it because it is like I am constantly trying to prove that i am not bad from that place where I dissaciociated where I was 13 and there was no one there only people yelling and denying my feelings I lay there for months and jthey brought me food but never asked me how I felt or gave me a hug.Why did they even bother to give me food but no love??? and that is exhausting because nothing is eevr enough and nothing seems to get through to me where I am hiding in my room I am trying to build a life on top of myself where I am lying there dying dead and and the deadlyiness of the rooms around me and the things I see is crying for someone to tell me something that will help me to get out of here. Love,
Bloopsy

[Anonymous]

I miss Eddie.Why doesn't he love me? Why did he hurt me. I miss him. I wish we could be together forever.

[Portia]

(((((((((Bloopsy))))))))) a big girly hug for you

[sleepyhead]

Bloopsy: You are not a horrible person, you are a wonderful person! Being angry does not make you a monster, being angry is an emotion, which in your case is very much a good and natural response to the awful things that happened to you. And no, you did not let them happen, you were not able to stop him. None of this is your fault it is all his fault and it is right and good and natural to be angry at him. I am angry at him for what he did to you, and I bet everyone on this board is angry at him for what he did to to you, and I hope you don't think we are monsters for hating him, because that is what he deserves.

[longtire]

Bloopsy, I'm sorry that you feel so awful right now.  I think you are really helping yourself by sharing it with us here.  I've re-read your posts and have a question for you.  Are you more afraid/upset with feeling angry or with feeling like you are not in control of yourself?

[Anonymous]

I think it is both. I started to get angry on the train yeatersay and I immediately shut that sown because I was afraid that I would lash out at someone and not be able to get by in the world so angry as I am . I just don't want anyone to know that I am angry. THe part of me that is angry Firestorm is very very angry. But I act out of that by being passive aggresive anyway. When I stamp aroun I am at least able to stamp around!!!!But it is scary  because I want to hit him. But one time I did throw a plate and wanted to throw it at someone but I threw it at the floor instead.Firestorm doessn't want ot hurt anyone but she doesn't want them to hurt her and by not letting myself get angry that doesn't help anything. Longtire it is more scary to be out of  control and not knowing why I am doing what I am doing. Firestorm gets angry when men try to talk to her but I deny it and pretend it is okay. The other say this man treated me as a prostitute on the street and I laughed but my whole body went number after that I just don't take myself seriiously enough to think that these things really bother me and when I talked to my mom about working in a soup kitchen where men mostly went and they would be so flirty all the time but it made me feel very unsafe and I ended up going out with one man who I thought was my father and I told my mom that I was uncomfortable with how the men trated me and I wanted to say something about it and she said not kto because then they will think you think you are pretty and then I felt ashamed but I ended up having to leave after trying to tell one of the men something and he said I know that my mind works a thousand times faster than yours and by that time I was so angry that I couldn't take it and  had to go. I am so angry and enraged. I didn't do any of this crap on purpose. Thank you guys so much for being validating and not thinking that I am complaining about nothing I am really very angry about it and so angry at my mom and her boyfriend jbecause he emotionally raped me and I hear his voice whenever I try to do my art telling me lkwho do I think I am to be doing art screaming about it raging about how I have no right  to do art when there are starving peole in the world it felt like he opened me up and dumped all the sufering in the world into me and that it was my fault. Whatev. I am so angry. I hate him and I want to spit on his pillow. Do any of you nkow what to do when you are so angry
? Maybe stomp around and yell and scream in priveate???Love, Bloop[sy

[Anonymous]

Longtire I think it is more scary to be out of control than angry????in the end. That was me Bloopsy above. I am solrry about the long rambling post, I just get started and it is like turning on a sfaucet that has been shut a long time and forgotten?