Author Topic: Narcissistic Relatives  (Read 10810 times)

Anonymous

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Narcissistic Relatives
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2005, 09:09:19 AM »
Hello All:

It never ceases to amaze me about our families.  I stopped long ago trying to appease them.  My mother at one point called me an "outcast" and also added that "my friends" treated me better than my brothers.  I just looked at her like a space alien. She told me this after I had married and moved away from home.

I can relate to the "two family" concept.  I was treated much different than my brothers by my father.  My father had no value in me at all.  He had no trouble treating me as if I were invisible.  I just did not exist.  We really did not have much of a relationship at all and he was a "unapproachable and remote" kind of person.  He was very hypercritical and negative person.  Nothing was good enough for him.  I can remember when my  brothers were playing in the little league baseball team.  He would go to the games and if my middle brother lost a ball or missed a play, he would berate him for not playing better.  It would not be just a little comment, he might even give him a spanking for it.  My brother  was only about 6-8 at the time.

Now my middle brother is in the process of living vicariously through his own son i.e. a football player.  He has this notion that he is going to a big league college on a scholarship.  Nevermind that my nephew is learning disabled, never mind that he does not have the GPA to enter college.  More importantly my brother has ignored his son being LD to the point of taking him off his medicine when he was a young child.  NOW my brother wants to do something about it and his son is 18. It is really to late.  The point is you can see how the impossible expectations of my father have been passed on to my brother.  I think we can be genetically predisposed to some of this Nness, but by and large I think it is environmental.

I just look at my two brothers, their N lifestyle, the N children they have produced and wonder how can I be so different.  My mother knew I was different, why else call me an "outcast" within the family? It is a function of a different mindset on how to look and interact with the world in general.  I have ceased to wonder about it and just know I cannot cope with chaos and Nness that is produced.

I remember going to a 4th of July party at my brothers house.  My nieces and nephews had a lot of their college friends etc. there.  This was ok with me it was a party after all.  However a lot of drinking etc. was going on and one of my nieces friends got extremely drunk, the next thing I know this young girl was lying face down in the swimming pool, floating and on the verge of drowning.  I looked at my brother and told him that this behavior was deplorable and he was at risk of being sued if this girl had any residual damage.  He just looked at me "oh they are just being kids, leave them alone". He saw no urgencey, no problem with what was going on.   I finally got my two nieces to haul her out of the pool.  It was a very hedonistic type environment.  I got out of there after that experience.  Any type of family gathering is always a chaotic experience even in public.  I have ceased to go to any of these family gatherings because of it.  They are truly lunatics as GFN stated.  They make a spectacal of themselves everywhere they go.

My general take on this is they want everyone to look at them, to look at their behavior and see that they are "entitled" to this and everyone just might as well accept it.  Patz

vunil

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Narcissistic Relatives
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2005, 09:17:19 AM »
Quote
I wish I had a relationship with my mom to ask her what, if anything, went on during his first few years.


Hi, Mudpup--

Something funky-weird must be going on in your mom's coping mechanisms for her to choose an NPD guy over you.  Or to choose at all-- what makes her have to choose?  I have worked with people with NPD, and dated them (:() and it's not as if they are so difficult to detect as defective.  Yes, it takes time, but eventually it's clear they lie and care only about themselves.

I think about how loving you are to folks here, how involved you are in being a good person, and I just don't "get" your mother's behavior.   Something in her ignorance (or blindness to your brother) may help explain where he came from.

Not that we can ever really know, of course. Heredity does seem to be part of the game, too.

Anonymous

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« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2005, 09:31:09 AM »
promqueen

Your story sounds like something from a horror flick.  

How dare your family pull such low life tactics at a funeral.

I'm glad that you have your brother and his wife as your family.  Your NMom and siblings sound more than toxic.

Sorry that you were born into such a monstrous family.

mia

Anonymous

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« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2005, 12:28:42 PM »
Vunil,
My wife and I have pondered this.
My mom once told my wife that my brother didn't have any body to take care of him so she had to. I guess her idea is if you treat people nicely, get married and have kids (like me) you're strong and you don't need help; the defective ones do. My brother is never married and no kids.
Plus I believe he has oppressed her to quite an extent. I have heard him call her an F*****g b***h to her face as have others.( I should have knocked his teeth out years ago.) He frequently berates her and tells her how stupid she is. I just think she is a victim of him the same way others are oppressed and victimized by Ns. Add in a pinch of good old mother henning to protect the weak one of the litter and you have a recipe for mommy protecting her own oppresser. Pretty sick.

mud

bunny as guest

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« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2005, 02:55:08 PM »
Quote from: Anonymous
My mom once told my wife that my brother didn't have any body to take care of him so she had to. I guess her idea is if you treat people nicely, get married and have kids (like me) you're strong and you don't need help; the defective ones do. My brother is never married and no kids.


She spoiled him and didn't set limits. I don't think it's a big surprise that he ended up with no boundaries and the maturity of a 2 year old.


Quote
I just think she is a victim of him the same way others are oppressed and victimized by Ns. Add in a pinch of good old mother henning to protect the weak one of the litter and you have a recipe for mommy protecting her own oppresser. Pretty sick.


Your mother has co-signed the BS on this. She may look like his victim, she may even be victimized by him. But something in her internal makeup needs to submit rather than set limits. It takes two to tango.

bunny

Anonymous

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« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2005, 02:58:22 PM »
Quote from: Anonymous
the next thing I know this young girl was lying face down in the swimming pool, floating and on the verge of drowning.  I looked at my brother and told him that this behavior was deplorable and he was at risk of being sued if this girl had any residual damage.  He just looked at me "oh they are just being kids, leave them alone". He saw no urgencey, no problem with what was going on.


A person who is sociopathic isn't stimulated by danger the same way that a non-sociopath is. It takes a lot to make them worried. They enjoy it more than feel threatened. [And maybe he was totally drunk.] It is indeed deplorable.

bunny

promqueencasualty

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Narcissistic Relatives
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2005, 03:17:36 PM »
Dear mudpup,

I do not know about the dynamics of co-dependency, but could it be that in some bizarre way, your mom is "getting something" out of this relationship with your brother?

I know very little about psychology, so forgive my ignorance---but in situations like this I wonder if there might not be some symbiosis present. I can only offer the perspective based on my own experience: My youngest brother decided to drop out of college and move back in with my parents full time, and when my Nmother told me about this(this was years ago when we were still talking), she said to me that it would "be a comfort to have [my brother] around all the time." My mother does not drive, she has no friends nor interests of her own(as she claims that she sacrificed all of those things on the mighty altar of parenthood---what a load---but I digress), and now that the nest was empty I think she found herself wondering what to do with herself now that there were no young children who "needed" her.

My juvenile brother's full-time presence in my Nmother's home allowed her to go back to parenting on a level that she felt "comfortable" with(and Lord knows, with an Nmother, HER comfort level takes top priority over everything and everyone else), whereas my other brother and I were full-fledged adults who had married and made new families with our spouses(or, to quote my Nmother and Nsisters, we "brought OUTSIDERS" into our family of origin). I think that my mother cannot deal with the fact that she no longer has control over our lives, so she makes excuses for our youngest brother's irresponsibility and immaturity because it suits her own twisted needs(his neediness strokes her ego).

As far as your mom's willingness to put up with your brother's abuse, the only thing I can offer is that as children who were abused, my brother and I did not want to believe that our Nfamily was evil---sure, our folks were very punitive, but it was always cloaked in "we only have your best interests at heart." I guess that it just got to the point were my brother and I were brainwashed---a child never wants to believe that his/her parents are bad or(worse yet) pathological. Maybe your mom does not see your brother for the psychopath that he is, maybe she continues to project upon him a false image of how she would really like him to be. It's kind of the polar opposite of what my parents projected on to me---I was the "bad" child(and boy, when you hear that often enough it's hard to shake).

Furthermore, was your brother was indulged in as a child?(I apologize if you already addressed that in an earlier thread--my head is spinning from all of the posts and the vast amount of information on this site!). In my experience, if a child repeatedly engages in behavior that is emotionally destructive to others and it goes unchecked, the child has the potential to grow-up into a monster(as is the case with my youngest Nsister---I do not advocate physical violence, but over the years my brother and I have joked in passing that what our Nsister needed was a good, swift kick in the pants).

sleepyhead

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« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2005, 04:55:01 PM »
Just a quick note here: I think everyone is right about what makes an N, all kinds of different factors contribute to make the N, it be several of these or just one, I don't believe anyone really knows. But maybe a child can also become an N due to events that take place outside the family, providing they are traumatic enough. In the same way, experiences of having our voice heard and being accepted as we are outside of the family (or by other members of the family), can help us to grow up more sane. I know I've been talking a lot about Trapped in the Mirror lately, but it does a good job of exploring the issues of why we turn out the way we do and why we turn out different. I can recommend it to anyone here who hasn't read it yet (but if you're in the U.K. you had better order it on the internet, Waterstones are soooo slooow, I still haven't received Nina Brown's book that I ordered six weeks ago).
Rip it to shreds and let it go - Garbage

Anonymous

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« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2005, 05:02:10 PM »
Mudpuppy:

I think PromQueen may be on to something here.  Anytime you give something up i.e. your brother, your mother would have to replace him with something more productive in her life.  Maybe she felt she had nothing else but him to give in to.  It is amazing that she would put up with such verbal abuse.  My middle brother is very much like that.  He is very crude and bigoted.  He has no problem calling women b*****s, myself included.  I usually try to talk to him on Sunday when I get in from church.  It used to be I would call him on Sunday morning and not go to church and I realized he was prempting my worship life in order to talk with him.  So I stopped that as well.  Anymore I mimimize the amount of time I am on the phone with him.

My younger brother goes to church, but on the other hand he has no problem in his business life in sandbagging his customers.  For example when some of his workers installed new carpet in a customers house, the workers somehow broke the water pipes in the house and the entire house was flooded.  The man threatened to sue my brother if  it were not replaced.  What did he do?  He convinced the man that he should file this on his homeowners insurance and the man did it!  The reason my brother did this was because he did not want to pay for it.  The customer does not realize when filing claims on homeowners insurance it is going to raise the premiums.  Besides that customer had to LIE about how it happened.  My brother thought it was funny.  Yet, he goes to church every Sunday.  His son is very similar about how he conducts his business.  He will over charge and pad the statements and sees no problems with this.  Amazing.  Patz

Stormchild Guesting

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« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2005, 06:21:24 PM »
Oh, Patz, I ended up homeless because of a "Christian" contractor who was a deacon in his church! [Not homeless now. All fixed.] This man was building a house for me in a very small town about an hour from where I work. The house was not 'custom' at all, and he had several other similar houses going up, un-spoken for, just across the state line [importent detail].

A month before closing, I moved to the small town - temporary digs - with my three cats. I was in a rental townhouse (council houses, you UK foilks, but privatised) and the guy in the house next my rental turned out to be an alcoholic stalking lunatic, who fixated on me within two weeks and started leaving me very scary love notes while I was away at work. (This was in 2002).

I asked the "Christian deacon" to exchange my house contract for one on a house he hadn't yet sold, across the state line, because stalking is merely a misdemeanor in my home state (like loitering or spitting in public) but if the stalker crosses a state line it becomes a felony at the federal level.

The sanctimonious b*****d refused, even though the prices would have been the same, and even though I showed him the letters this creep was leaving me. So I had to break the contract, losing a LOT of money, and get my stuff out in the middle of the night. I got the cats out a day early: stalkers often harm animals or destroy possessions in order to cause their targets emotional pain, and I wanted to be sure they were safe before I left.

I lived in a friend's living room for a week, and another friend's spare room for several months. Fortunately they let me stay rent free because of the situation, so I was able to afford to board my kitties and save up to replace the money I'd lost on the contract, but one of the cats had to be put to sleep due to complications of aging during this time.

People like your brother, and this creep, give Christianity a coating of muck in the eyes of the world. And I will probably never buy a piece of real estate in my life, given this foul experience.

Anonymous

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« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2005, 07:21:23 PM »
Thanks guys,
I really don't know what to make of my mom. Like I said my wife and I have hashed it over, but finally pretty much gave up trying to figure it out. Maybe she's got more going on in her noggin' than I know.
PQC and bunny I'm sure are right. There is some kind of co-dependancy thing going on. It definitely does take two to tango. Too bad. She has made NO attempt to even see her grand daughter for two years.

Patz and Stormy,
I have a good and wise friend who estimated once that he figured maybe twenty per cent of the people in the typical church were actually Christians and who try to live as Christ did. And I can't disagree. Church is a magnet for grifters, stalkers, misogynists, and those looking to salve their conscience and hoodwink their fellow citizen. Too bad so many people judge God and real Christians by what these slimeballs do. I'm proud to call you two (amongst others) my sisters.
Patz, I've always wondered what people like your brother think when they hear sermons on the rich young ruler or the love of money. Do you think it goes in one ear and out the other or do you think he's actually sitting there looking for some new member of the flock to fleece?

mudpuppy

Anonymous

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« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2005, 10:08:33 AM »
Mudpuppy:

I really don't know but I do know that it is really embarrasses me that both of my brothers take advantage of people in such a way.  They are always looking for the "angles" to get ahead.

I remember I had a dear neighbor who married again after her husband had been dead a number of years.  She married someone she met in church.  Oh, he was so good, so glib.  Her house was paid for so he moved in with her.  They were married about two years and this friend was diagnosed with breast cancer.  Well, needless to say, this guy she met in church did not count on this.  The next thing you know he was suing for divorce and taking her to court for half of what she owned. There was no prenup.  So much for meeting someone decent in church.  She thought it was "safe" since he was a church member in good standing.  Did the deacon thing the whole bit.

I feel my younger brother uses his positon in the community and uses the church he attends as his platform to perform and then has this bad rap in the business community.  The two simply don't go together.  It has been my observation that integrity is not a flag you have to wave around for people to see.  It is a living ingredient in  your life.  It is not something you advertise.  All this makes it hard to even tell people what home town I am from for fear that they know who my two brothers are.
Much like your own brother, they are such an embarrassment and huge disappointment because of their behavior.  I hope this is not coming across as "holier than thou" because it is not my intent.  It just seems the more they engage in this behavior the more they seem to get "away" with it.  Patz