How can I persuade my brother to get help?

[miaxo]

Hi All,

Over two years ago my younger brother "came out of the closet".  I was shocked but then again I really wasn't.  Does that make sense?

I always suspected that my brother was gay since he was a young teen.  He's not flamboyant or feminine in any way.  After years of having many of my friends and coworkers swoon over my brother and my brother always finding an excuse as to why he didn't want to date any of these very attractive women....I knew something was up.  There was more to it then him being fussy. I found myself lying to people b/c others were constantly inquiring about my brother and wanting to be fixed up with him b/c I knew he wouldn't have an interest.  He was often referred to as Mr. GQ by my friends.  So eventually I told them he had a girlfriend who the family didn't approve of and that's why he never brought her around.  I know that was wrong to lie but it did get people off my back about him.

Fast forward to my brother's thirties.  He became severely depressed and took off for the holidays two years ago.  Totally unlike him to be away from family during holidays.  We were all worried.  He didn't tell us where he was going.  Turns out he went to FL.  I eventually was able to reach hiim via his cell phone.  He sounded very guarded and detached.  He then asked me, "Do you know why I'm down here?"  I asked him to repeat himself.  He did.  Long pause.  I responded, "Because you are gay."  He began crying.  He thought that the family was going to turn on him for this.  He especially thought that I would and so would my husband since we are "Conservative Christians" AKA religious zealots. He was also fearful that I would no longer allow my children to have contact him with him.  All hogwash of course.  

I finally convinced him to get the hell back home ASAP.  He was a complete mess.  He confided that he was a 32 yo virgin and felt like a freak.  He has always known that he was gay but never acted on it and till this day hasn't.  

I was able to get him to go to his primary doc and the doc put him on an antidepressant.  It seemed to help him but of course he was still feeling very bad about himself.  

Well, I have come to find out that my brother abruptly stopped taking the meds.  For the past few months he has been in another world.  Confused and disorganized thinking.  This is so unlike him.  At times I will be speaking to him and he is looking through me and doesn't respond.  I usually say, "What's wrong?....I'm talking to you"  After which I have to repeat what was said.  

I'm worried.  He doesn't believe in therapy.  

He has told me that he has met some gay friends but for the most part has difficulty relating to them.  He doesn't feel comfortable around gay men who are flamboyant and feminine acting.  He has confided that he has yet to act on his homosexuality.  He has never been with a woman or a man.  

My brother is the greatest guy.  Always willing to help every one else.  Very generous, loyal, and honest.  He feels guilty that he "lived a lie" for so many years. Right now I can see how tortured he is.

I feel like he needs to get help....professional help.  How can I convince him??

I am posting this b/c he phoned me yesterday early AM.  He was begging me to come in and work for him.   He neglected to put ANYONE on the schedule for his store (he owns and operates two stores in the city).  I asked him how he managed to overlook the schedule since it's busy season right now.  His response, "I don't know".  This is alarming b/c he always prided himself in his organization and professionalism.  

As the big sister, I dropped everything I was doing and rushed over there with my son.  I covered the store for 4 hours until he was able to call in his employees.  During my four hours there, he was really out of it.  Basically in a daze.  He was even having difficulty doing basic mathmatical computations. To say the least I am concerned.

Thanks for reading.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Mia

[Anonymous]

Mia:

It is so nice to hear such love coming through your post.  Your empathy for your brother and your concern for him is really special and beautiful.  He is blessed to have a sister like you.   ((((((Mia))))))

I don't know what to say to help.   A person has to accept help....it can't be forced (unless the person is a danger to themselves or others and even then...it's a tricky process sometimes).

I think by empathizing and letting your brother know how much you care, you are doing something that must help, a little.  Will he talk about his feelings with you?  My bet is he feels "bad", or like a "freak".

He's not the only gay person on earth!!! (so he's not that unique/freaky).
There are lot's of bad heterosexuals and worse, in the world!!   He's not bad!
He does good things  etc (stuff I don't know but you will....has good attributes.....gifts......talents......characteristics etc).

I will keep you and him in my prayers Mia.

Wish there was more I could say of use.

GFN

[bunny as guest]

Mia,

What a heartrending situation. My first thought is, "He is having a nervous breakdown." I think he needs help desperately and I'm even thinking hospitalization. Do you think he's suicidal? Do you have a therapist? Please talk to your T and ask for advice on this situation. It's kind of complex because you can't force your brother to accept his sexuality, to get help, to do anything. And he may be wanting to punish himself and refuse to take appropriate help. However he will take help in a "concrete" crisis where you have to work in the store. That was symbolic, he is in the emergency situation. I imagine what would help him is a non-threatening, straight-looking gay male therapist. Just let him know you're there for him and you support him. It may sink in at some point, but not right now. Just keep letting him know even if he doesn't hear it. Sometimes when people expect to be rejected, and it doesn't happen,  they're can't handle it, because they unconsciously feel they should be punished. This is so complicated that I think professionals are needed, if you can get him to one. You can tell him that there are people who would help him, you will not rest until you find the right person and he doesn't have to see anyone who feels threatening to him.

Bottom line, please talk to your own therapist if you have one.

You're a fantastic sister.

bunny

[Anonymous]

GFN

He's not the only gay person on earth!!! (so he's not that unique/freaky).
There are lot's of bad heterosexuals and worse, in the world!! He's not bad!
He does good things etc (stuff I don't know but you will....has good attributes.....gifts......talents......characteristics etc).

I tell him stuff like this but it doesn't seem to sink in with him.

However he will take help in a "concrete" crisis where you have to work in the store. That was symbolic, he is in the emergency situation.

I never would have thought of this, Bunny.  Thanks.  After I read your post I remembered how my brother greeted me when I arrived at the store.  He had such a sad look on his face and very quietly said, "Thank you, (my endearing nickname from childhood).  He hasn't called me that in ages.  It was touching and upsetting at the same time.  

I don't feel that he is suicidal at this point.  Two years ago he was.  So I think I could sense if he was contemplating such things.  

You're a fantastic sister.

Thanks Bunny.  I don't always feel like that.  I still feel badly b/c about a week b/f he took off for FL he was over my house.  He was acting very moody and was snippy towards my kids.  I wouldn't have minded but he was snapping at them and they weren't even doing anything remotely annoying.  I suddenly found myself blurting out, "You are so miserable, why don't you get yourself a girlfriend?".  As the words escaped my mouth I knew I was saying the most insensitve thing I could say to him. Even though he *wasn't out* at that time, a part of me already knew.  Talk about putting your foot in your mouth.    He stood up, excused himself and left.

I know he feels so alone.  He tells me that he will be alone for the rest of his life.  I try to comfort him and let him know that he has me, my hubby, and the kids.  My children adore him and he adores them.  However, he has even become disinterested in them lately.

Bunny, I don't have a therapist.  I only speak with the children's therapist once every three weeks.  

I imagine what would help him is a non-threatening, straight-looking gay male therapist.

Sounds good.  I wouldn't know how to begin to look for such a therapist.  
Maybe it's listed as such in the yellow pages?  

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to ask the kid's therapist if she knew of anyone who could help my brother.  Maybe if I went with him.  

Between me and my Mom we are keeping close tabs on him.  He lives in the same town so I get to see him often in person as well as online.

On a lighter note: Since my brother is Mr. GQ he is constantly updating his wardrobe with the latest fashions and he gets rid of what he considers to be old stuff but in actuality is still considered new stuff by 99% of the population.  I'm talking high end stuff.  He's the same shirt size as my husband.  Yeah, you guessed it.  Husband gets all the hand me downs.  Last week, hubby came strutting down the stairs in one of my brother's shirts which looked very flattering on hubby.  Hubby says jokingly, "See there are perks to having a gay BIL."  To appreciate this you must know that hubby was raised a Baptist and knows the Bible inside and out. Quotes it daily.  Who would have thought that he would be so open to my gay brother....let alone wear a gay person's hand me downs.  After I told my brother about this.....he laughed....a genuine laugh....I would like to hear more of his laughter.  BTW, hubby and brother get alone great.  They go out to sporting events, golfing, etc.  Hubby has been trying to coax him to do something together lately with no success.  

We'll just keep trying.

Thanks.
Mia

[Anonymous]

I still feel badly b/c about a week b/f he took off for FL he was over my house.  He was acting very moody and was snippy towards my kids.  I wouldn't have minded but he was snapping at them and they weren't even doing anything remotely annoying.  I suddenly found myself blurting out, "You are so miserable, why don't you get yourself a girlfriend?".  As the words escaped my mouth I knew I was saying the most insensitve thing I could say to him

Mia, he provoked this unconsciously. Some part of him feels he deserves to be punished. He is likely homophobic himself because he can't distinguish between an appropriate, mature gay man and a flaming drag queen. He has them all in the same category. Bottom line, he desperately needs a non-threatening therapist who is gay-friendly -- a role model for sanity and positive growth.

YES call your children's therapist asap!! Even if she knows no one, she can ask her colleagues! Try it.

bunny

[mum]

Hey, Mia.  I wish I had some concrete answers for you....or at least something to share.  You sound like the best sister he could wish for.
Could your brother be on some other drugs now that he has stopped his meds?  
He must really feel alone.  I know some gay men who feel that way...I mean about the super feminine men not being thier style....the "gay" night life/social life not being thier style.  There are lots of other gay men who feel that way, but it's pretty hard to connect, I'm sure, as they are not out and about looking for love, as it were.
I will send you and your brother good thoughts....when he is ready....help will be there (most likely, you).

[October]

Hi All,

Over two years ago my younger brother "came out of the closet".  I was shocked but then again I really wasn't.  Does that make sense?

Mia

Hiya Mia.  I agree with the other comments; you are a great sister, and your hubby sounds wonderful too.  I am not sure what I can add to what has been said, but perhaps if your brother has internet connection he could find friends online just to talk to, not chat rooms but maybe message boards or penfriends.  He could start with people half a world away, and gradually work closer to home.  

I know my gay friend does that, rather than going on the scene, which he finds too shallow.  He ignores the kind of people who are looking for something he is not looking for (which you get anywhere), but he also finds good friends, in an environment which he can control and thereby remains within his own comfort zone.  And sometimes he meets people after getting to know them this way, which is really good too.

[Brigid]

Mia,
Yes, my dear, you are a wonderful sister.  

Do you live in a community with a college or university?  Quite often they have gay, bi-sexual, lesbian, etc. groups on campus that might be able to help you find a therapist or perhaps a support group that would be helpful.  They might also be able to direct you to a support group for family members that can help you learn to communicate more effectively with him.  It doesn't sound like you have any acceptance issues, but they can also help you with that.  It sounds like he needs help with accepting who he is and learning to be OK with that.

If you don't want to or can't go the college route, I know that most major metropolitan areas have Gay & lesbian groups that should be able to provide all kinds of resources.  We just had "Pridefest" here in town which is devoted entirely to the Gay community.  You can try your local Yellow Pages or see if there is some kind of community resource council either through the library, Chamber of Commerce, whatever.  It really just depends on what part of the country you are in and how big the city is as to how much help is available.

I wish you well.

Brigid

[Stormchild]

Mia, remember who said, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Sounds to me as though you and your blessed wonder of a good dear husband have heard His words, loud and clear! Thou art thy brother's keeper...

One of my ex's sisters is a gay Lutheran deaconess. Whichever Synod includes metropolitan New York City is quite loving... you might try a Lutheran church that belongs to that synod (it is not the Missouri Synod, but I don't remember which one it is) and see if they can recommend someone. I'd offer to put you in touch with my ex's sis, but it's been so long since we had any contact I am not sure how to reach her. PM me if you'd like to chat further.

Father Mychal Judge, the dear man who was killed giving a firefighter last rites on 9/11, was also gay, though a priest and therefore not acting upon it. I don't recall his order, but you could find it via the Net, and perhaps get some further counseling referrals via a local Chapter house...

[Jaded911]

Oh mercy......Im going to catch alot of flack on this one.  I feel there is alot more to your brothers crisis then you are aware of.  I also experienced this with a very close family member.  My father came out of the closet after 26 years of marriage to my my my um, mom.

From what my dad has told me, the day he came out of the closet was the first day of his life that he felt free.  He had nothing to hide anymore and he has said many times that he felt a huge weight lifted off of his shoulders.  He no longer had to live a lie.  So I have to wonder why it seems that your brother began to show signs of depression when he should have felt relief because he no longer had to live a lie.

Also, I have to wonder how much he is not telling you and if this is the case, why is it he feels he can not be forthcoming to his family?  At times we say one thing but our actions say another.  Maybe perhaps someone has let a facial expression show or some little comment was overheard by your brother that made him feel uncomfortable discussing these delicate issues with the family.  I say this because I really had to watch myself around my dad.  There were many times I wanted to cringe around him but I decided that it was not my place to judge him.  We all have done things in our lives that we were judged for by others.  My philosophy is if it doesnt directly affect me, why should I put my two cents in.

If your brother is truly torn so much about being gay, he would not hang around gay people.  Trust me, gay people have what I like to call gaydars.  They can detect another gay person from miles away.  If your brother was struggling with being gay, I highly doubt he would gravitate to others who possess the root of his evil.  (Evil as in mental torment, struggles, etc.)

I just see alot of unspoken issues with his behavior that your describe.  If he is hesitant on discussing these issues with you, maybe he has been in an onging relationship that has gone sour or something like that.  Or perhaps his medication wasnt right for his depression and he needs to consult his phys. for that but whatever the case, he definately sounds like he is in crisis for sure.

Be gentle on me guys, just sharing what I have witnessed and heard from my dad.

[Stormchild]

No flack here, Jaded. You make a lot of sense, and having your dad to refer to is a pretty solid bit of experience.

You do got guts, gal. I admire that!

[Portia]

Hi Mia, this may be an off-the-wall suggestion.

How about you send him an email with a link to this thread, or just to this board?

Or the link written on a post-it?

If he doesn’t find therapy attractive, maybe he’ll appreciate the anonymity here.

Hi Jaded

They can detect another gay person from miles away.

Some gay people like to think they can! But not all gay people believe this. Some gay people are more thoughtful than those who think they have special powers of perception....

[Hollow Cost]

What surprises me most about this subject is the suffering and apparent isolation Mia's brother is enduring just trying to be true to himself.  His awareness for himself is not directly hurting another. The only concern we should have is about his comfort and happiness for what he finds to be his need in discovering his true self.  

Gay may not be a choice, but "coming out" (mostly to oneself, and then others) is a choice, and a heart-wrenching one... that I'm sure takes much courage and many years. If he needs therapy, and I'm sure the right therapist could help, it would/should be to help him accept himself. (I'm still trying to accept myself and I'm not gay).

It's obvious to me this is an "internal" problem and no one else should be hurt by his way of life. Family/friends may be disappointed, but is that for the sadness he must face by accepting something he has been afraid of, shamed by, and hiding...from himself and others?  We all must find the courage to discover the biology we are given and choose the character within that biology that makes us someone we can be proud of...and move forward with our life!... With or without those who choose to judge us.  

The recommendation of him using this site as a road leading to therapy makes me think this:  How would he feel reading all this about "him", AND, this is a therapy site with N considerations. Nothing was mentioned about him possibly having a personality problem so....as far as I can see, he is lucky to be gay and not a N. And for both N and gay, or anyone struggling with life issues, it's most important to be insightful and willing to look at, admit, then face what we have not seen in ourselves before.  The true strength and humanity of character comes with resolving to find our own peace in being the best we can be, to satisfy OURSELF, with who we are meant to be. Accept that we are something that was given to us and make it our own. This will define who we make of ourself.  

This is only my opinion, as I struggle with a very different version of my own biology and family/character issues.  I, too, am struggling to live my best life...with therapy.  

I respect someone who faces who they are and defines himself with a dignified character.  If anyone else has a negative opinion or is hurt by this, they too have their own struggles to face and maybe should consider finding an appropriate therapist to help face their own demons...if they are strong enough to travel through weakness.

Mia, I wish your brother much comfort and clarity, with peace and love, on his journey.  He needs you to stick by him...and anyone else who might be gentle and/or love him.   Courage and best to all ,

HollowCost

[Portia]

Hi Hollow cost,

The recommendation of him using this site as a road leading to therapy makes me think this: How would he feel reading all this about "him",

I thought about this the moment after I posted. Maybe he doesn’t see his sexuality as being his major problem, if he thinks he has any major problem? Maybe he’d be amused? Maybe he’d be overwhelmed that his sister cares so much? I don't know how he might feel.

If he doesn’t think he has a problem, he won’t look anywhere I guess. I think the board is great and I’d like to see the message spread, so I’m over-enthusiastic about recommending it. For emotional survival!

Mia, I guess you/we could ask for this whole thread to be deleted if you thought it was a good idea??????

AND, this is a therapy site with N considerations. Nothing was mentioned about him possibly having a personality problem so....as far as I can see, he is lucky to be gay and not a N.

Maybe he has Voicelessness problems? Maybe he has a physical problem and needs to see a physician? I wasn’t suggesting he had a personality problem….actually I’m a bit confused as to what I’m saying now. I see it might be a shock to see people you don’t know talking about you; but otherwise, I don’t get it? Why shouldn’t someone come here to talk, listen, read?

Maybe I missed something here. Did I? Or did I just not word myself very well?

[miaxo]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies (Mum, October, Jaded, Stormchild, Portia, Brigid, Hollow, GFN, Bunny).  They are much appreciated.

From what my brother tells me these days he was always experiencing an internal upheavel since early childhood.  He found at an early age that he always felt out of place and lonely...no matter who or how many friends he had.

No matter how hard he tried or pretended he knew he didn't fit in.  However, his friends always felt he fit it b/c he did such a good job of disguising all of his feelings and emotions.  

My husband and I are dumbfounded in many ways b/c he has become increasingly depressed since "coming out" two years ago.  He can't find peace.  He's still confused and doesn't feel like he fits in anywhere.  

October said:

perhaps if your brother has internet connection he could find friends online just to talk to,

He does do this and even after speaking to "more masculine" gay men he still felt like he couldn't relate to them.

Brigid said:

Do you live in a community with a college or university? Quite often they have gay, bi-sexual, lesbian, etc. groups on campus that might be able to help you find a therapist or perhaps a support group that would be helpful.

I mentioned to him last year that maybe he could find some resources to help him at the University he graduated.  He was against the idea.  

One of my ex's sisters is a gay Lutheran deaconess. Whichever Synod includes metropolitan New York City is quite loving... you might try a Lutheran church that belongs to that synod (it is not the Missouri Synod, but I don't remember which one it is) and see if they can recommend someone. I'd offer to put you in touch with my ex's sis, but it's been so long since we had any contact I am not sure how to reach her. PM me if you'd like to chat further.

Thanks Storm for your support.  I may be taking you up on the offer to pm you.

Jaded,
Thank you for sharing about your Dad.  My brother is more of a homebody and really doesn't hang out with other gay men.  He's always around family and mutual friends that he shares with my brother.  

Portia,
You are fine.  No need to explain yourself, hon.
If others feel this thread to be offensive then I would have it deleted. But I think it's OK.

Hollow,

If he needs therapy, and I'm sure the right therapist could help, it would/should be to help him accept himself. (I'm still trying to accept myself and I'm not gay).

I think  it would be helpful for my brother if he was able to find an objective third party to talk to about his true feelings.  Right now he seems like a tortured and tormented soul.  

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that family support is enough.  He knows we accept him with open arms.  He's struggling.  I feel that his coming out has made him feel worse about himself.  And it wasn't b/c of the reactions of the family.  My brother told me last year how surprised he was that everyone was still accepting of him.  He was truly expecting that he was going to be banished.  

Point of interest:  The only person who didn't know was my Dad.  My brother "came out" as my Dad was dying in the hospital.  They were very close and my Father was a very traditional and conservative man.
As I mentioned to Mud in a PM, I wonder about my brother's timing. Dad had been in the hospital for nearly one year and my brother came out a month before he passed.

mia