Help!?!

[Menow]

Hi Guys,

This wonderful neighbor friend who has been a new wonderful friend to me is going through a very stressful time and I need a reality check, big time.

To give you some background... He is a recovered pain pill addict... been clean for about a year. We met a few weeks ago when I moved in. I was dating someone who had a drug problem and neighbor friend, Mike, I will call him, stepped in and really helped me to walk away from this druggie.

We have gotten very close since and even started casually, carefully dating. Which has been wonderful.

Well, he is dealing with the final week of a year long nasty divorce. It is all coming to a head next week in court. I have been there for him as he has for me these couple of weeks, pretty balanced.

Well, this last week, he has been a bear to be around... of course. And I have been very understanding about putting my needs/feelings aside and being there for him. I think that is healthy, and in a healthy relationship the needs will flip flop, I think?

Needless to say, I reached my capacity for being there about two days ago. So I have made sure to take time for myself and have done my best to let him be and when we spend time together, to be there for him.

The problem is that it is too early in the relationship to be able to tell if he is a self-centered prick. (that is how I feel now! Feels good to say it). Or if he is just under insurmountable stress and can't help himself, disintegrating quickly into his lowest places. That is what i am experiencing.

I mean he is not abusing me or anything like that. He just thinks I am not being very understanding..... EGADS!!!! That is all I have been!!!! until I reached my limit and snapped back a few times yesterday and today. Syaing this is hard on me too. The good news is... I am dropping him off at the airport in about two hours!!!

I was very excited about this relationship in the beginning and I am just hoping I get the Mike back, that I first met. My little cautious voice reminds me that a lion's share of AA people are N's and the Alanon people are co-dpendants (me). So we are perfect fit for trouble OR healing.

I guess I would love some feedback and help. I have not been in many or ANY healthy relationships.... Is there anyone experienced out there around this commited relationship give and take thing?????

For now, I am definitely giving him the benefit of the doubt and doing my best to keep my mouth shut until it is all over for him. Then hopefully we can calmly talk it out, so that we can learn to treat each other kindly even if one of us is stressed out to the max, if that is possible. This whole thing is really new for me.... I appreciate any words of wisdom!!!!

The good news is, he is in therapy and has been really understanding for the most part. It is early though.

Menow

[bunny as guest]

Hi,

Even in relatively healthy relationships, people can have times when they can't stand each other. Or both need support at the same time and both feel unsupported. And other stuff. I'm not sure what he means by "not being understanding enough." It's kind of vague. Can you specify a bit more?

bunny

[mudpuppy]

Hi menow,

Here's something you said awhile back,

..........I dont even want to think about finding a man, that has been my escape and false hope for too too long, it doesnt work. When I work through this and make some progress, maybe then I will trust my choices........

Have you made enough progress to trust your choices yet, do you think?
I don't think its been even a month since you wrote that.

right now I am thankful to have men friends.......Who want nothing from me. And I do have some of those, once I take the savior blinders off and all the weirdness needing them to be my savior.

Are you sure you have your savior blinders off?
I'm not saying that to criticize you or him. Just wondering if you are having enough patience with letting things work their own way out in your life, before you go diving in again.
What do you think?

mudpup

[Anonymous]

Hi Menow

I betting that your boyfriend is super stressed right now due to his impending court date.

I know whenever I had to go to court regarding my divorce or regarding custody issues, I was sooooo not myself the weeks prior to the court date.  Court can bring out unpleasant moods in people.  I am not excusing his behavior, I'm just trying to offer an explanation as to why he has turned into Dr. Jeckyl.  From my expeience Mr Hyde will be back as soon as the dust has settled from court.

Also, it isn't easy to be involved with someone as they are entrenched in the actual process of a divorce. I hope this works out for you.

Best wishes
Mia

[mum]

Hey, Menow: pick up a copy of the book: Crazy Time.  I lent it out, but the woman who wrote it did so specifically for recently divorced/broken up people.  I wish I had read it before my second marriage....(and divorce).  Even if your friend doesn't read it, you might find things in there to help understand the post divorce/break up crazies (for both of you).

It's hard to know what's normal when you haven't been around it, I agree completely!  That you are glad this guy is going away is something to pay attention to.  
Give yourself the gift of NOT having to worry about someone else for a while. With this relationship, at this time, are you giving something up that you need right now?
 I really truly wish I had taken more time alone after my split...but every body's story is different.  That book, however, really put what I had done into a common perspective.
Don't get worried, whatever you do.  It's your time to relax about your life and focus on healing...yourself, not him.  Everything will be fine.
(((((Menow)))))), don't fret.

[jophil]

If Mike was NOT a recovered drug abuser, would you have connected up with him? Honestly,truly? Would he have had the same 'pulling' power.
Can you step away from his personal drama and let him solve it all by himself without offering your support?
Does his drama and turmoil seem familiar ? Do you NEED to help him ?Has he ASKED for your advice or support, or did you just 'go to work' on his personal problems?

Just wondering.

[Menow]

Hi Guys,
Wow, some great feedback, thanks, all of it helpful.

And Mudpup, of course I could count on you to give it to me straight! Egads! I did say that, just weeks ago... Kinda scary. I got swallowed up again. It is like I start sliding down that slippery slope, then before I know it I am in a relationship and unfocused again. Thanks for pointing out what I had said. Thanks for caring. I like what you said...

Just wondering if you are having enough patience with letting things work their own way out in your life, before you go diving in again.

I need to let myself have time. I need to let myself have space. It is like I create these individuals who are in a crisis and I tell myself, Oh they need me, just for now, they need me. But I think I use it as a distraction to avoid myself. I am scared, actually scared to focus on myself. Petrified to be direct.  I am afraid I am going to get in BIG BIG trouble if I make myself happy, do nice things for me, PROSPER. Oh big big trouble if I prosper and focus on me. It is the whole whistle blower thing.

My family was threatened if I did well. I felt like a threat if I did well. So I have used all my energy to melt in, to disappear, to make do. I am at the threshold of not being able to do that anymore, and it is scary. It is threatening to my child. She is scared that I am doing well, and being seen. She is scared that I am putting her in a very risky position. But me the adult cant live that way anymore. It is no longer okay. So I will gently talk to her. And as scared as I am make some progress. Take some steps.  

I did work on my book a few times. I need to also feel okay about taking time to myself when others seem to need me. I would love to keep Mike as my friend and yes, a possible romantic relationship, but I need to keep the focus on me and my healing at all costs.

Thank you, Mia, Mum, Jophil, Bunny, and Mudpup. Really, thank you. This is so helpful. As a friend, I think he is going through a very stressful time and will come back a different person. I miss the old him.

But again, it will be great practice for me to have him as a friend and NOT abandon myself and my needs. Usually I would just leave him totally now, and do the black or white thing, all or nothing. This will be great practice for me to be with me and keep this friendship going. And I will get back on track while he is gone for 10 days.

Mum, that book sounds great! I will reccomend it to him, and look at it myself. It sounds good.

Jophil, I think I do have a tendency to just "go to work" on people's problems whether they want it or not. I do it as an avoidance of talking about my stuff.

Menow

[mudpuppy]

Hiya menow,

I was kind of worried you wouldn't appreciate having your words tossed back in your face like that, but you took it as it was intended.

I hope you find somebody who aint broke and don't need fixin.
There's a few out there. They're hard to see with the 'savior blinders' on though.

mud

[Menow]

Hi Mud,
 Thanks for the note... I saw my therapist today, it was a really good session. Lots to think about. Yeah, I hear you. Finding someone who aint broke, that would be nice. It seems a bit impossible. Someone with enough energy for me. It would be very nice. I guess all I can think about is why would they want me then, and maybe they wouldnt even understand me if they came from a healthy childhood. I did have some potential relationships like that, and they didnt/couldnt understand me. But maybe you are saying finding someone who has done most of the work already.

I am curious, it sounds like you are married or at least in a relationship. What is your partner like, what is/was your situation as a child and where are you now with it all. If you dont mind talking about it. Maybe it will inspire me. Feeling blue tonight. Just blue and yes, lonely. But as my therapist has said, I need to be there for me. So I am doing that tonight and from now on, doing my best anyway.

Thanks for caring.

Menow

[jophil]

Hi Menow -- I read all the replies to your post and there was a quote from you which triggered a response in me . You said that he said that,"You were not understanding enough" ( or something close to that ).
I am not sure or certain what is going on in his mind but I do recall feeling like that on several occasions with those of my lady friends who had 'savoir behavior' down to a fine art. What I felt was that they did not take the time to really understand what I was feeling and saying in times of turmoil. They assumed that they 'just knew' without really listening deeply.

One lady appeared to have a need to force her own solution into the situation rather that respond to what I was saying that I needed from her. This added to my frustration and I recall feeling some resentment towards her because I sensed that she was trying to 'manage' my problem HER way instead of supporting me in the way that I wanted. I responded by distancing myself from her. and I remember giving her one 'strike'.

Just a thought--John.

[write]

it's ok for you to take a wee break from all the stress, to tell him that you don't feel it's positive to spend time together while he's got so many issues to sort out.

Yes, that means if he is a selfish jerk it's probably the beginning of the end of the relationship.

But if he wants to keep you either as a friend or anything more- he has to learn to respect your boundaries. And right now he's bringing you down with his own problems. Which are not your responsibility, right?

I only learned this myself quite recently- it is perfectly possible for an adult to sort out their own problems, and that real grown-ups actually prefer to do so before embarking on a big relationship or acting out with their nearest and dearest.

[Menow]

Jophil,
Thank you for your experience. I have been questioning that and really looking maybe for the first time, if I wasnt there for him. Usually I would say to myself "f-you, too bad for you, I'm outta here." Not good, I know.

I can be a bit know it all ish. And because I am in my own stressful time, I give what I give and if that isnt what he wants then too bad for him, he should be thankful for what I am giving.... I know that attitude is not very nice or helpful. But maybe I can at least own up to that with him. That I am doing the best I can, and that I am actually just not able to be there for him, like he needs.

I appreciate your perspective. It helps me to see it from his point of view. And also to just at least inform him up front that I am not capable of being there, rather than martyr myself and be resentful afterwards. He doesnt deserve that and neither do I. Because I end up being mean to someone I care about. Or maybe just rethink my whole need to save, and just allow myself to listen not to have to fix, I think that is it. Let myself off the hook. Listen when I can, not fix. And when I cant, say so. No resentments.

I am going to look at that, jophil, thanks

Menow

[Unlucky Ducky]

Hi Menow

I had a really interesting reaction to the 'not understanding enough' thing. It brought back an old, old, long buried memory.

Long ago I dated a guy who always managed to drop an anvil on me whenever I was feeling particularly cheerful and bright in his presence. He did this by finding something that I was not being 'enough' of, and gobsmacking me with it when I least expected it.

It worked, too, for a while; it kept me unsure of myself, insecure around him, etc.

But then, one day, he goofed. He got that old familiar look on his face, took a deep breath, and told me I wasn't "spontaneous enough".

For some reason, all the lights came on, and I felt like I'd just discovered fire. I remember asking him, gee, how do I learn how to be spontaneous properly? Are there classes? Am I 90% spontaneous enough, or only 60%? How do you assign a percentage score?  Did they publish it somewhere? Do you have a copy I could borrow?

Then I couldn't keep my face straight anymore, and I just broke up laughing... and repeating 'I'm not spontaneous enough? not spontaneous enough! Oh God, I have no reason to go on living! I'm not spontaneous enough!'

Needless to say, the date ended right there, right then. I was suddenly and totally aware that this person never cared about me and was never going to. He just got a kick out of kicking me around.

Beware the man who tells you you aren't "XYZ" enough. He's telling you a lot more about himself than about you.

[jophil]

Hey Menow, There is only one way to find out what the guy meant when he said the you were not understanding enough -ask him what he wants from you.
If he gives you a credible answer, believe it. This is a better approach than mind reading or crystal ball gazing or even asking us. We have NO way of looking into the workings of his mind.
I doubt whether, given the circumstances, there is any similarity between Plucky Duck's guy and yours . Your guy sounds overwhelmed by the current events in his life, Plucky's guy sounds like a mindgameplaying control freak who liked to 'keep 'em on the ropes' in order to hold the upper hand.


John/.

[Menow]

Unlucky Ducky,

I have definitiely dated men like that. But even worse, I have been like that myself... and have been told that I am like that. In fact friends have told me things almost to the T of what you responded with to your dating partner(that was good by the way! It must have felt sooo good to say).

I think that instead of being vulnerable and sharing MY insecurities with my new "partner" I pick on his weaknesses to make me feel better or try to "fix" him. Rather than looking at mine and trying to fix my own issues. I really do need to focus on myself in every way.

There is only one way to find out what the guy meant when he said the you were not understanding enough -ask him what he wants from you.
If he gives you a credible answer, believe it.

Jophil, that is a good point. There were a few instances that occurred where he was short with me and I showed my disdain or anger about it, promptly excused myself(because of what he is going through, I didnt want to dump it on him).

Then he came to me and said I wasnt being understanding enough. He said that he hates to think anyone is angry at him, and that he just cannot be concerned about how I am feeling right now, that he cannot deal with making me feel better, that it is just one more pressure. I said, of course, I understand. But I can still have my feelings privately. I am doing the best I can too. And not to worry, I am not going to leave him. I am just angry. And we can talk about it when the court date is all over. That seemed to make him feel better. But in our last few conversations, I can feel that he is distant. Probably just trying to be benign. I am just trying to be supportive and take care of myself.

I also need to focus on me, and that I really cannot get swallowed up by anyone anytime. But keep the focus on me. I think I was putting my feelings and needs aside so much, he didnt see it or appreciate it. Which put me over the edge. It was then that he said I wasnt being understanding, because he could feel I reached my limit.

Thanks, it helps to figure out what is really going on.

Menow