breaches....of conduct; shame; guilt in context of narcissism

[gnostic]

well perhaps focusing more here  on semantic aspects
or conceptual than in forum topic ...Narcissism and Shame-Dumping
in hopes of cracking open cosmic consciousness
on such matters

conceptually i am thinking of  as a starting point
the concept that all fall short
as it relates to the human realm but
that all may be perfected and be one with the creator...
at some probable future point
considering the dynamic of how so all fall short
in terms of romans...
well maybe here after all
that when death passed to all because all have sinned..
that the greek word hamartano
tense of second aorist and active voice and indicative mood
i suspect might mean that the way death passed to all
thru adam's sin is that all had in an earlier existence already sinned...
which i know is not the traditional orthodox interpretation

now in regards to a merriam webster dictionary definitions of shame
1 : the fact of having committed a breach of conduct especially violating law and involving a penalty; broadly : guilty conduct
2 a : the state of one who has committed an offense especially consciously b : feelings of culpability

AND IN MY FIRST POST HERE I HAD SAID....
"HMMMM ABOVE WHERE IT SAYS FOR GUILT IN DEFINITION 1  that it minimally is a breach of conduct IT DOESNT SAY IF IT IS OTHERS CODE OF CONDUCT OR ONE'S OWN AND IT COULD WELL BE FOLLOWING OTHERS CODES OF CONDUCT COULD MAKE ONE GUILTY IN TERMS OF ONE'S OWN CODE OF CONDUCT AND THUS NOT FEEL ASHAMED FOR BREACHING SUCH A CODE OF CONDUCT....
...SO HAVING LAID A WONDERFUL BASIS FOR BETTER CLARIFICATION OF ISSUES...
I SHALL RETIRE TO MY GNOSTIC IVORY TOWER FOR THE MOMENT "

WELL NOW JUST MAYBE PEEPING OUT FOR NOW ...
DEPENDING ON HOW THE FLOW GOES...
SINCE I AM PUT IN MIND OF WHEN JESUS COMMENTED THIS PASSAGE IN ISAIAH
The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
... LATER TO HIS RESPONSE OF
Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.
AND IN THEIR DISSATISFACTION
ACTUALLY WRATH...
they...rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.

so to speak of codes of conduct and guilt
and that we all fall short and why ....
but leaving that behind for not :O)
and more on the narcissist issues with guilt and shame
and how they treat others...

BUT OH MY MY MIND IS ALL ATREMBLE WITH EXERTION NOW
AND AM NOT READY FOR THE BROW OF A HILL...
SO ENUF FOR NOW

[write]

I'm sorry, I couldn't follow your writing.

Sorry you're having a bad time.

[vunil]

Gnostic, can you tell us more specifically about you and what you are feeling/worrying about?  I am with write-- maybe it's the late hour, but I think that your writing is one step too abstract for me.  Maybe just be a little more personal and let us know what's on your mind?

[bliz1]

I agree, can you speak more specifically about yourself?  To take everything to the abstract and or cosmic level may be a shield to protect yourself from digging deep within and sharing.  Just a thought.

[gnostic specifics kinda]

I agree, can you speak more specifically about yourself?  To take everything to the abstract and or cosmic level may be a shield to protect yourself from digging deep within and sharing.  Just a thought.

well now there would be maybe a bit more specifics
at a topic i started ..here be the first post of mine there...

ONE STORY...VARIATIONS ON THE THEME
« on: August 05, 2005, 03:06:34 PM »  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mama
from what i been readin bout narcissism
i got it even more nailed down
how it could have been u
who let the vampire spirits in the door

and from what i been readin
bout enneagram 3 and narcissism
how they well they ignore
what could free them from their grandiose self delusion
and turn it around to manipulate others
there be more info
but is it enuf in your case
to save others who still buy into u bein the noble one
as your form of narcissism methinks
were one of the forms that could pull that off better

papa
so her siren song pulled u in at first
and then you began to see her odd ways
and tried to help her
but felt overpowered
and tried to save the children...
but then you went over to the dark side
of the narcissist's enabler...
tho she still made you to be at fault..
you allowed that in the end
and left the rest to twist in the wind...
with you

mefears it has passed further down the line now
not that there is no hope...
sheeesh i dont mean that at all

OH AND BONUS POINTS FOR THOSE WHO
FIND TYPOS AND SUCH

[vunil]

Y'know what, darlin'?  I have a phd and I don't get it.

Break it down a bit, please?  Who are you?  What are you worried about?  Are you feeling negatively toward this board and the use of the word "narcissism"?  You seem to post a fair amount of negative stuff about "jargon."  Are you wanting to enlighten us or are you joining us or are you just figuring things out?  Do you object to labelling of people? Or do you like it?

[Bliz1]

Okay I get it..  You had a narcisstic mother.  Dad tried to save the kids, but ended up enabling her. 

What is your fear that  it is passed further down the line?  Is it you or someone else? 

Your chosen form of expression is of interest.  Any particular reason you do not want to speak in typical sentences? Too mundane? 

[gnosticONreplies5&6]

Y'know what, darlin'?  I have a phd and I don't get it.

Break it down a bit, please?  Who are you?  What are you worried about?  Are you feeling negatively toward this board and the use of the word "narcissism"?  You seem to post a fair amount of negative stuff about "jargon."  Are you wanting to enlighten us or are you joining us or are you just figuring things out?  Do you object to labelling of people? Or do you like it?

to phd  vunil from gnostic here// 
 
about how maybe ifn what i say were a broken down a bit more
it would be easier to get....
well now then what in the post after yours.. namely blitzes
bout why i dont speak in typical sentences...
well people dont speak in typical sentences often
when they speak and thus
to better get the flavor how things are spoken...
i question speaking in "typical sentences"
plus other factors for my style and what i am a sayin that
might be discernible for phds..
ah an aside a bit more of uh my story
..i has an assistantship for a phd at rice and barley
where is that tongue in cheek emoticon  ..sigh..
but second year of grad school they stopped draft deferment
in terms of being available for all in grad schools...
thank god the panties worked _
was a sweatin it there  i tell you ..said in the style of a particular
comedian i have in mind...
now back to this and that...
i suppose a lot of my variations and whimsy
is that i be a bit leary of others thinking they really want to know as they think they do
or another factor enters in
to get into a point into the mind of others most effectively
one best can do this at times under their radar..
thus one is safe
and can get a read on dem without dem necessarily knowin
what one got a read on bout somethin bout dem
that they dont even suspect is true of demselves...
..
well enuf for now
as other things call...

like a poetry slam i b agoin to
to slam the nature of most poetry slams
WHOOPIE


 

[OOPStho1MOREthing]

yep i be gnostic
and quick like one more thing to the previous post of mine..
another factor of my style at times
be that
i suspect can be at times
when some thing they have some point of understanding
it can actually server to block
what the real understanding that was a developin

[bliz]

Is your goal to heal?

[vunil]

what the real understanding that was a developin

Actually, this crowd is the best crowd I have ever seen at really genuinely trying to understand and help.  If that's something you want, these are the people to do it.  If you want real understanding, it can happen here.  Sometimes maybe that is scary?  If that's what's going on, you can feel free to say it.  It's not as if the rest of us don't feel that, too.

I wasn't being superiour with you by saying I have a PhD-- I am very aware how little superiority that degree affords   I was just letting you know that the folks here (ALL of them) are perceptive and smart and good at reading between the lines.  If we aren't "getting it" then it may not be our fault.

(sorry, I'm a little blunt. I think it's a balance thing-- as one person gets vaguer the other one gets more blunt.  I would be happy to meet in the middle!).

[gnostic2bowie&vnl]

what the real understanding that was a developin

Actually, this crowd is the best crowd I have ever seen at really genuinely trying to understand and help.  If that's something you want, these are the people to do it.  If you want real understanding, it can happen here.  Sometimes maybe that is scary?  If that's what's going on, you can feel free to say it.  It's not as if the rest of us don't feel that, too.

I wasn't being superiour with you by saying I have a PhD-- I am very aware how little superiority that degree affords   I was just letting you know that the folks here (ALL of them) are perceptive and smart and good at reading between the lines.  If we aren't "getting it" then it may not be our fault.

well now vunil...it is not necessarily that there isnt a lot of understanding and helpfulness...
but at times more that i often attempt a layer to 2 deeper perhaps on some matters
and hmmm wait i got it.. e-mc squared...
which tends to engage the mind in a different fashion
which i dont see necessarily as that hard to get
it is more maybe that i am a bit nonlinear in the sense
of hopefully some of the positive aspects of idiosyncratic..
ah dont forget that m-w.com   ..merriam webster online
and hopefully the puter accessing is fast....
actually i dont know how slow m-w works on a slow computer..
just guessing it might be slow...

oh ifn there were a better way maybe to track
various comments on various topics...
.. some might note that often my concepts
are rather simple  at some points
and perhaps when others havent picked up on such...
and even got it twisted..
then to continue or to develop
or to just get it flowin
i might use some variations of style
..sometimes that a bit an added dose of tongue in cheek:)

after awhile sometimes it seems to be that
often from a subconscious level
things that people are not used to
that they see as effective devices of communication
but has aspects of social assumptions
where actually there are aspects
that block out not seeing that their assumed
devices in part serve as a blocking and clocking device...

whether i mesmerize or trick or actually truly impress...
for some ..what seemed like a foolishness
and overdoneness or whatever...
they go WOW ... NOW I GET SOMETHING I NEVER DID BEFORE

SHUCKS ....
and what do i attribute such a bent of mind of mine to....

later maybe
but i probably essentially have given some essentials aspects of such
in various forms already

(sorry, I'm a little blunt. I think it's a balance thing-- as one person gets vaguer the other one gets more blunt.  I would be happy to meet in the middle!).




 

[gnostic opps]

what the real understanding that was a developin

Actually, this crowd is the best crowd I have ever seen at really genuinely trying to understand and help.  If that's something you want, these are the people to do it.  If you want real understanding, it can happen here.  Sometimes maybe that is scary?  If that's what's going on, you can feel free to say it.  It's not as if the rest of us don't feel that, too.

I wasn't being superiour with you by saying I have a PhD-- I am very aware how little superiority that degree affords   I was just letting you know that the folks here (ALL of them) are perceptive and smart and good at reading between the lines.  If we aren't "getting it" then it may not be our fault.

(sorry, I'm a little blunt. I think it's a balance thing-- as one person gets vaguer the other one gets more blunt.  I would be happy to meet in the middle!).

the oops namely that when i clicked your post to quote in a response for me to post
i didnt scroll down to avoid gettin what i said in what i was quotin from your
post.... thus
attempt to correct with this un oopsing
and pasting what i had said in the former post of mine
so what is said wont appear as a quote in your response...

well now vunil...it is not necessarily that there isnt a lot of understanding and helpfulness...
but at times more that i often attempt a layer to 2 deeper perhaps on some matters
and hmmm wait i got it.. e-mc squared...
which tends to engage the mind in a different fashion
which i dont see necessarily as that hard to get
it is more maybe that i am a bit nonlinear in the sense
of hopefully some of the positive aspects of idiosyncratic..
ah dont forget that m-w.com   ..merriam webster online
and hopefully the puter accessing is fast....
actually i dont know how slow m-w works on a slow computer..
just guessing it might be slow...

oh ifn there were a better way maybe to track
various comments on various topics...
.. some might note that often my concepts
are rather simple  at some points
and perhaps when others havent picked up on such...
and even got it twisted..
then to continue or to develop
or to just get it flowin
i might use some variations of style
..sometimes that a bit an added dose of tongue in cheek:)

after awhile sometimes it seems to be that
often from a subconscious level
things that people are not used to
that they see as effective devices of communication
but has aspects of social assumptions
where actually there are aspects
that block out not seeing that their assumed
devices in part serve as a blocking and clocking device...

whether i mesmerize or trick or actually truly impress...
for some ..what seemed like a foolishness
and overdoneness or whatever...
they go WOW ... NOW I GET SOMETHING I NEVER DID BEFORE

SHUCKS ....
and what do i attribute such a bent of mind of mine to....

later maybe
but i probably essentially have given some essentials aspects of such
in various forms already

 

[gnostic nonlinearness]

in an earlier post here i spoke of nonlinear
and was gonna get to some more on such...

well obviously it is a kind of not in the box thing
but includes in a way what the bigger box is...
and another visual used for nonlinear...
has the same concept....
any idea of other visuals for nonlinear...

NOW AS TO ANOTHER MATTER
NOW SURELY I MUST SEE THAT OFTEN
SOME OF THE DIFFICULTY FROM FOLLOWING MY THOUGHT
COMES FROM ASPECTS OF MYSELF THAT MISS THE BEST POINT
BUT U C MISSING THE BEST POINT OFTEN IS NOT A GREAT CONCERN TO ME
IFN
I THINK THAT I AM HOLDING TRACK OF THE POINT TO SUFFICIENT DEGREE HAVING
BEEN POSSIBLY MADE...

THEN ANOTHER FACTOR
BE
THAT WHAT I CONSIDER OTHERS NOT SEEING HOW OFTEN
THE ASSUMED FORMS OF GOOD AGREEMENT
IN PART CAN WELL BE PROMOTING GENERAL SOCIAL BLINDNESS
TO SOME DEEPER ASPECTS
THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT IT DOES NOT HELP
AND THAT I MIGHT BE AT TIME HYPERSENSITIVE TO SUCH
OR THAT AT TIMES I PERCEIVE IT AS HAPPENING IN A FASHION
OR A DEGREE THAT IT ACTUALLY IS NOT ....

OH ANOTHER ISSUE
DID I MENTION THAT I AM A VERY BRIGHT CHIMP
WHO IS AFRAID OF HUMANS
AS WITNESSED AS TO THE DIRE CONDITION OF HUMAN SOCIETY
AND ITS DESTRUCTIVNESS...
ACTUALLY THO I AM AN ALIEN WHO IS CLOAKED AS A CHIMP

[GNOSTIC OPPS]

BELOW TOWARDS THE FIRST WHERE TIS SPOKEN OF NONLINEAR AS
NOT IN THE BOX THING...
LINEARLY PUT MAYBE THAT WOULD BE out of the box?

in an earlier post here i spoke of nonlinear
and was gonna get to some more on such...

well obviously it is a kind of not in the box thing
but includes in a way what the bigger box is...
and another visual used for nonlinear...
has the same concept....
any idea of other visuals for nonlinear...

NOW AS TO ANOTHER MATTER
NOW SURELY I MUST SEE THAT OFTEN
SOME OF THE DIFFICULTY FROM FOLLOWING MY THOUGHT
COMES FROM ASPECTS OF MYSELF THAT MISS THE BEST POINT
BUT U C MISSING THE BEST POINT OFTEN IS NOT A GREAT CONCERN TO ME
IFN
I THINK THAT I AM HOLDING TRACK OF THE POINT TO SUFFICIENT DEGREE HAVING
BEEN POSSIBLY MADE...

THEN ANOTHER FACTOR
BE
THAT WHAT I CONSIDER OTHERS NOT SEEING HOW OFTEN
THE ASSUMED FORMS OF GOOD AGREEMENT
IN PART CAN WELL BE PROMOTING GENERAL SOCIAL BLINDNESS
TO SOME DEEPER ASPECTS
THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT IT DOES NOT HELP
AND THAT I MIGHT BE AT TIME HYPERSENSITIVE TO SUCH
OR THAT AT TIMES I PERCEIVE IT AS HAPPENING IN A FASHION
OR A DEGREE THAT IT ACTUALLY IS NOT ....

OH ANOTHER ISSUE
DID I MENTION THAT I AM A VERY BRIGHT CHIMP
WHO IS AFRAID OF HUMANS
AS WITNESSED AS TO THE DIRE CONDITION OF HUMAN SOCIETY
AND ITS DESTRUCTIVNESS...
ACTUALLY THO I AM AN ALIEN WHO IS CLOAKED AS A CHIMP