What is the point of this board again?

[mudpuppy]

Hello everybody,

I'm having a hard time remembering why it is I visit this board. Some months ago I think it was about Ns and such. Lately it seems to be about nasty political discussions and nasty disagreements about relationships.
If anyone dares to say that America maybe isn't quite so bad as people are saying, they get shouted down and insulted. Tiffany, an African American gal, gets told what to say and what to think about people of color.
I am surprised to learn that as a white american I hate black people and poor people and third world people and Native americans.

Not only does almost none of this have anything to do with Ns and voicelessness, it seems fairly N itself.

This is not something that has only sprung up in the wake of Katrina, either. The tone here has been pretty hostile for some time. I was hoping the exit of cosmic joe/gnostic would help matters but it hasn't done a thing as far as I can tell.

I could go hang around my family if I wanted to listen to this kind of venom. 

I'll PM friendly folks and maybe post once in awhile but for the most part I think I'll sit out this funfest and find something a little more enjoyable to do, like hit my thumb with a hammer.

mudpuppy

[Brigid]

Mud,
I'm with you all the way, my friend.

Brigid

[Stormchild]

hugs, mud.

people are in tremendous pain right now... and people in pain cry out to the Heavens in any and all words that come to them... and in sobs and screams when the words run dry. may God in his mercy know this too is prayer.

i fear for my country as I have never feared before in my life. i fear for friends and colleagues on the gulf coast, and for their loved ones, and their cherished animals.

but i also fear some of my countrymen in a way i never have before, either. i fear 'not counting'. i fear being one of the abandoned ones. this too is voicelessness. perhaps this is what much of the crying out is about.

people in texas have been angels of mercy... and I have heard that, in the areas around Houston, maybe elsewhere too, signs are being posted, saying: It Could Have Been Us.

I think we all feel that, and depending on what we have lived through to date, our reactions to it will differ. Pray for us, and for those who are ragged and homeless, and for those who did not make it... God rest their souls.

maranatha.

[vunil]

Mudpup--

Please do not hit any part of your body with a hammer!

I think we've just been having some threads that lead to the kind of political stuff that is bothering you. On other threads, everything is great, I think, the same as always.  It may be a thread issue, not a board issue.

Please don't leave us!  I like hearing from you.  I'll try to start more threads (and post to more threads) about personal relationships.  I did just start one-- it has politics in it but isn't about politics at all. 

Don't you think the threads on personal stuff have been ok?  I actually haven't minded the political threads and haven't found them particularly nasty, but then I'm in the mood for political discourse right now.  But I do think we should try to keep that stuff out of the other threads.  I'll try to do that.

cheers,
Vunil

[d'smom]

id just like to see people not take the step of defining disagreement as 'nastiness'.

that is a mistake many grew up with and that -definitely- imo contributes to voicelessness.

[dogbit]

Not only does almost none of this have anything to do with Ns and voicelessness, it seems fairly N itself.


Jeepers!  I had the same thought myself ... and I kept thinking about it this afternoon.  I finally thought that there are always certain things that push our defensive buttons and always, until we learn another route, our prescripted way of responding?  One thing I am learning is to just recognize and acknowledge when I am defensive and to just think about it for at least 24 hours!.  In my thread on "I don't like my attorney", I am still trying to wallow through what is really going on between her and me.  I'm beginning to think, after all the kind input from the folks here, that iit is me and my prior experiences.  She is doing a good job and I am learning to deal with my fears and defensiveness.  I said it there and I'm truly beginning to believe and hopefully "live" it:  When we feel defensive or all to willing to jump for the jugular within micro-seconds, we need to think twice, three times.  Maybe longer.   Don't we get through most of our good days by being thoughtful and kind and having the security of knowing that we have time to think about our reactions to others and the basic goals of a supportive relationship?   Being in conflict became a habit in my marriage...I think it actually sustained it for a number of years.  It was just a survival technique...What I am saying is not meant to be judgemental....only a thought.  I think the controversy here sparked by hurricane Katrina is a very emotional one which could lead us to learn about ourselves.  But, please don't delete posts....I have enough worries about my short term memory without being able to find a post that everyone seems to refer to!  Take care

[vunil]

id just like to see people not take the step of defining disagreement as 'nastiness'.

that is a mistake many grew up with and that -definitely- imo contributes to voicelessness.

I definitely agree with this.  I've been pondering mudpup's post and I think I have two reactions-- I want him to feel happy and a part of the board because I like him, and I am sorry that things have seemed nasty or been upsetting-- that isn't something we should aim for.  But I also think the discussions we have had have been fruitful, interesting, and educational. Not only for their content, but for the chance they have given us to disagree with each other, if that makes any sense.  Probably most of us aren't perfect at it (I am personally not within shouting distance of perfect at it) but this is a place to try it out, try to voice what we feel and get better. It's one of the few places where I even "meet" people who disagree with me politically and who have such a different culture from me.  I have gotten angry and wanted to do the internet equivalent of leaving the room, but people called me back and it was better and I think I learned from that.

Something else occured to me that might be totally offbase (and please let me know if you think so!) but people who are happy with the current government in the US have less to be upset about politically in their everyday lives because... the people they are happy with control all three branches of the government.  Those of us who are less happy may be feeling more day-to-day raw and beleaguered by all of it.  So we seem more rough around the edges, more willing to bring the political issues up, more reactive, less nice in some sense.  I think there is some sociological word for this, as a matter of fact, but I forget what it is. 

I just remember when Marta was telling me that my angry reactions were actually other emotions channelled into anger, and I kept thinking-- but what if I actually do think things are screwed up and unfair?  Shouldn't I be angry?  To her I am sure I just looked like I was overreacting.  It's all perceptual...

But I think we can work it out. Please, no one leave-- I like everyone here and want them to stay.

[mudpuppy]

I guess I should reply to my own thread.

Brigid,
Thanks.

Stormy,
Uh, maybe, but I doubt it. As I said the coarseness and hostility predates any pain people may be feeling over Katrina.

vunil,
Its not political stuff that bothers me, its the tone of the political stuff. Some people here do not hesitate to paint any opposing viewpoint as racist, homophobic, rich people desiring to eat the young of the poor, ad nauseum. And that's to be taken as just friendly give and take I guess.
But I shudder to think of the firestorm were I to suggest that anyone disagreeing with me was an evil Christian hater who only feigned concern for the poor because they really want to go on the dole themselves and they're really closet racists who just want to keep black people down on Uncle Sam's plantation.
I'm kind of tired of the double standard that my MOTIVES and therefore character are always debatable but never anyone who disagrees with me. Its a form of intellectual bullying and displays a lack of confidence in their position. Thats why it strikes me as N like.
And I'm tired of incivility, and not just here.

I'll try to start more threads (and post to more threads) about personal relationships.

You're about to have a baby. Please don't spend your time trying to fix a problem I perceive. You've got more important things to do.

d's mom,
I'm not labeling disagreement as 'nastiness', just the name calling and questioning of people's motives, rather than reasonable discussion of topics.
And I'm not saying everyone has done it by any means.
But it has happened enough lately that I question the value of the board to me.
I'm not sure how I'm contributing to voicelssness of others when I am the one who said he was going to post less. If others enjoy name calling and PC conformity, more power to 'em, just include me out.

dogbit,
I'm not deleting any posts, just cutting down on new ones.

mud

[Portia]

Emotional survival! (((Mud)))

Mud, people have to sling stuff at each other sometimes. Better here than with actual baseball bats eh? I think so. Much better here (thanks to Dr G). And here we get to re-read our stuff, maybe even learn from ourselves and others! I made a huge gaff the other day about insurance. Ooops. Oh well. I learned something. Good. I want to keep learning stuff. I want to learn when I'm wrong, totally out of order, thinking in a screwy way, or having a paranoia attack. Here I get to learn that. Fantastic.

Life is difficult and complex. That's how it is.

Perceived nastiness hurts, okay. But why? What hurts most and why?

I have to talk about Katrina Mud, it hurts. I got so mad. I'm still mad about it. I have to talk about it. I can't sit on it, ignore what's been happening.

I used to flip out when people argued because from age 0 to 3 my parents argued constantly. I can't even remember it but I know they did it. I've had to learn to handle it. I've had to learn that conflict doesn't mean someone (me) has to die. Conflict is part of life. It's how we learn quickest. And some of my best friends are ones I've had huge rows with (those rows were the quickest ways to see both the differences and the similarities).

Why does this stuff make you uncomfortable Mud? It seems to. I'm asking you straight now. I don't want to argue, I'm curious. Tell me darn it!! hahaha joke. You don't have to tell me anything.  :)That's the beauty of the board. We can read what we want to, ignore what we don't want to - er - engage with. I guess you know what I mean. But I'm kinda worried by your post. You're saying something, but I'm wondering if there's more to say. Want to say it? How are you feeling?

When some of my comfort zones start to crumble, I get scared and panic. And I have to talk about it. How about you?

[Portia]

Oh bugger, I posted out of synch. Sink. Synk. Cink. Spelling?

But I shudder to think of the firestorm were I to suggest that anyone disagreeing with me was an evil Christian hater who only feigned concern for the poor because they really want to go on the dole themselves and they're really closet racists who just want to keep black people down on Uncle Sam's plantation.

Mud, who the heck would you say that to? Have I missed something....??? (It's quite probable...as ever...)

And I didn't know the word 'dole' is used in the US. Well!

[Brigid]

Portia,
Not to respond for Mud, but I think that statement was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

The correct spelling I believe would be sync.

Brigid

[dogbit]

dogbit,
I'm not deleting any posts, just cutting down on new ones.

I wasn't talking about you, silly dog!

[Portia]

I'm not deleting posts. Takes me too long. I'm only up to post number 32 or something and the Word document holding those posts is toooo looooooong. Haha! That's so ridiculous.

Brigid:
Not to respond for Mud, but I think that statement was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek.I still want to know what it's about! Okay, maybe not my business but I feel there's something that needs to go BOOM. Sooner it's done the better in my book. And I'm going to bed now, so feel free to go BOOM while I'm asleep. It won't wake me, will it? Hey we'll all live. Here, on the board. We do get to carry on living, whatever we say here. Hopefully.

The correct spelling I believe would be sync.
Thanks Brigid!

Question. I came out of the shadows and decided to let it show my name when I'm online. And it shows my name first in the queue. Because I registered first out of the users I last looked at? How ageist is that? I may as well go into hiding again. I really don't like the member categories either. Who cares how many posts someone made? Night all.

[Stormchild]

Oh bugger, I posted out of synch. Sink. Synk. Cink. Spelling?

Cinque? [Hint: count 'em!]

[you want my email?]

hahahahahahahahahaha!

Nice one Storm. Love it! night night, Portia