Why do MEN STRAY??

[Carl]

Hi everyone,

Why are some men such jerks.  I have been married for 22 years.  Then right out of the blue my husdand wants a divorce.  Says he has been miserable for years.  WHY DIDN"T HE TELL ME THAT?  Never said a word to me about being anything but "settled in" is what he called it.  He says that he is just bored and lonely and wants out.  I ask him what did I do so wrong?   Nothing.  I ask him if he would take some marital classes with me.  Nope.  Just wants out.  I spent 22 yrs of my life just to find out that I never meant nothing to this person.  What am I supposed to do now?    Any thoughts from anyone.

[Gail]

Whew, Carla! 

I can really sympathize as I am divorced from a man I was married to for 23 years.  We had several children ranging from 8 to 22.  It is going to be very, very difficult for awhile for you, and I'm sorry you have to endure this.

My suggestions:

1.  I got an attorney right away who froze the assets.  That way hubby can't squirrel them away.  This is the single most important thing you can do to protect yourself financially.  If your attorney doesn't do this right away, ditch him/her, as this is crucial.  I had a friend whose attorneys didn't do this, and a huge amount of money never did get accounted for that Xh withdrew and hid.  Also, ask attorney how you can protect yourself from any debts husband might incur before your divorce is final.  Don't wait to protect yourself "just in case" he changes his mind.

2.  Assume the worst.  If he wants a divorce "out of the blue", chances are he may be hiding something.  He may have a history of porn use, strip club visits, even affairs.  It is amazing what spouses can hide from each other.  Now, he might not, but it is something to be aware of.

3.  Be prepared for this to be extremely disorienting and painful for you.  I wish I could tell you differently.  You will get through it, though.  My OB/GYN told me something that really helped.  He said that he saw a lot of women just once a year.  He'd see them when the separation/divorce process was ongoing or just over and they'd be devastated.  A year or two later, they'd be on their feet, doing much better, and actually thankful to be rid of the jerk. 

4.  I went to a DivorceCare support group and found that really helpful. 

I did some things wrong:

1.  I got involved with another man too soon after the divorce.  You're going to be very vulnerable for awhile--self esteem will be shot, you'll be lonely, need validation, etc. etc.  If I had made a list of what I really needed in a new man, this guy definitely wouldn't have qualified, so be careful of the wolves out there.

2.  I let husband know when I found out something he was lying about.  I wish I had played my cards a little closer to my vest.  I would have found out more information that I needed to understand what was happening.


This is a long journey you are embarking on.  It hurts, it is exhausting, it will shake up everything in your world.  The new world will be eventually be better, though, as at least you won't be married to someone who would leave his wife of 22 years!

Gail

[Brigid]

Welcome Carla,
I'm very sorry for what you are going through right now.  Today would have been my 24th wedding anniversary, but almost exactly 2 years ago, my ex did the same thing to me.  I would repeat much of what Gail has said, but most especially the point of him hiding something.  Men very, very rarely choose to leave marriages out of the blue without there being someone on the side waiting for them.  They always start with how they just aren't happy anymore, that the marriage isn't giving them what they need, blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda.  But the truth is they have been fooling around with some, usually younger, little chippy who makes them feel younger again.  They might also be engaging in the other behaviors that Gail mentioned.  Mine did all of the above, and completely without my knowledge.  Be very suspicious of everything he tells you.

I totally agree that you should hire a good divorce attorney and become as knowledgable as possible about the divorce laws in your state.  If you have children who are minors, make sure you keep their best interests in mind as well.  My ex did try, with the help of his father, to hide income and assets.  They were successful to a degree, but I was aware enough of what was going on to minimize the damage.

I would also suggest finding a good therapist who can help you through this most devastating time.  I have been seeing mine for just over 2 years and have just cut back to one time per month as I am doing very well these days.  I recommend AD's if you are really depressed, sleeping pills if you can't sleep and anything else that will hold you together for now.  It will be very painful for quite some time, but I promise that it will get better and you will probably be glad one day that he is out of your life.  I know I am.

Blessings,

Brigid

[vunil]

Carla--

I am so sorry.  I have not been married but have had men cheat on me, and I think the answer is because they like the attention. I guess you knew that.  I think what you are really asking is:  what kind of jerk picks momentary attention over something it took years to build?

And that isn't as answerable.  I guess the answer is:  a true jerk.

I agree, arm yourself to the teeth.  One benefit of divorce is the chance to protect yourself legally, if not emotionally.  A show of strength against him would be at least momentarily therapeutic.

The thing I hate about cheaters is that they wait to leave until they are REALLY gone, have been emotionally gone for a long time.  So, the conversation is so incredibly frustrating, as they look at you blankly and keep glancing toward the door, eager to leave.  It is all made so easy for them it really burns me up.  The only consolation is that they always cheat on the next one, too.  As I heard somewhere,  "the man who marries his mistress leaves a job opening." 

Keep posting.  We all share your pain, and your anger.

[write]

Hi Carla,

I guess by your post title you already have some doubts?

The one piece of advice I'd repeat loudly ) is about what someone called 'wolves': there are men who look for, prey upon vulnerable women, and if you get into a relationship quickly to look for comfort this is most likely who you'll meet.
Some of them are married and cheating too, a lot.

Take care of yourself, you can build a much better life without someone who doesn't mention they are miserable for years, until it suits them.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[David P]

Hey Carla, how's it going? I am a bit young( not yet 30) to be an authority on why men stray, but I do know why some men leave what seem to be perfectly good relationships, and in particular,apparently good marriages.

I am not going to talk about those 'jerks' who take off with that blond from 'Accounts' because he wants a fling. I am refering to that relatively small group of comfortable,suburban responsible guys who just up and say," I want a divorce." Just right off the bat.

I have heard a lot of 'guy talk' about this and when you translate it, it comes down to a feeling in these men that they do not matter to their wives as much as they used to or as much as they want to. They seem to feel undervalued, unappreciated and many times exploited. I have also heard another similar sentiment that their wives do not regard the husband as the main person in their lives. That she has split or scattered or inverted loyalties.Sometimes guys talk as if they feel optional in their own homes. They say that their wives make the children a greater priority - even if the kids are teens. Sometimes the wife's sister or mother occupies a greater place in the wife's life than her husband.

I guess that a husband in this postion is an affair or a divorce waiting to happen.

I only get to hear the male perspective and for what it is worth I have posted it here .

DP.

[vunil]

Dave, young Dave

When you have kids, they ARE the priority.  This doesn't mean no room for romance and adult time and all that stuff, but if you have children, you have signed on to take care of them for life.  And having a family MEANS scattered loyalties and frazzled interactions and no one gets all of the attention all of the time or even as much as anyone would want.  Except the children, who should get most of the attention they need (but they'll still feel neglected sometimes-- it's just how it goes!).

Men who stray to get out of family loyalties and to be the center of the new woman's world are just being short-sighted because eventually they will have an adult relationship with the new woman, and she will not concentrate totally on him either.

There is a Marge Piercy poem about a man leaving his wife-- I will try to find the title.  Anyway, the last line refers to his new mistress and it is "if she is your whole world, how quickly the sun sets now."

[mudpuppy]

Hi everybody,

I have no doubt there are men like David describes because I know some. The couple grows apart and the wife for whatever reason ignores the husband.

However I think what Carla is describing is a lot more common. Something goes on in many middle aged men's brains that causes them to basically go insane and throw away everything they have. It is almost certainly linked to realizing their own mortality and the subsequent regret over their youth being behind them. This brings out the most disgusting selfishness, vanity and stupidity.
These guys are the toupee, Harley Davidson and Ab-lounge salesman's best friends.

Perhaps it just reveals what was there all along. Maybe they are only temporarily nuts and end up regretting their choices. Who knows?
One thing is for sure, they cannot be shamed. They will abandon a loyal wife and do the most embarrasing, asinine, childish things not caring or realizing that the rest of the world thinks they are infantile losers.

And one last point. I think a lot (most) of those guys talking about how their wife has abandoned them, blah, blah, blah, say that for public consumption. I think they're the ones who still have a sense of shame and make up a story to make themselves look better. Or maybe they're trying to convince themselves that its OK to renege on their vows if wifey isn't waiting at the door with his slippers in her teeth and his pipe in her hand every day after work.

mud

[Gail]

What a great post, Mudpuppy!  It fit my situation with Xh to a "T". 

I had another thought about the "wife puts everyone ahead of me" swan song of unfaithful husbands.  If husband isn't giving real help with family responsibilities, wife may be carrying a very heavy load which saps her energy and causes her to feel resentful.  Hardly a great combination for having those loving feelings toward hubby.  And many wives are working outside the home, too!

So, wife is exhausted and understandably feeling resentful and frustrated.  Hubby then accuses her of not paying enough attention to him, which justifies his infidelity.

Been there, done that!

Gail

[Brigid]

David said:

I have heard a lot of 'guy talk' about this and when you translate it, it comes down to a feeling in these men that they do not matter to their wives as much as they used to or as much as they want to. They seem to feel undervalued, unappreciated and many times exploited. I have also heard another similar sentiment that their wives do not regard the husband as the main person in their lives.

OK, I have to say that I am gagging on that statement.  Is leaving a marriage the only option to feeling "undervalued and unappreciated?"  What happened to talking to that person who shares the bed with you, sharing how you feel and getting some counselling if you need it--before it gets to the point of somebody wanting to leave or have an affair?  I doubt there are many people out there who have been in a long-term relationship who have not at one time or another felt taken advantage of and undervalued.  To feel that way day in and day out is a sign that the marriage has problems and someone needs to take action.  A marriage is a two-way street.  Both individuals need to make a commitment to making it work despite the ups and downs of everyday life.  You need to support one another, be honest about your feelings and always hold that person with the highest respect.  You took a vow before God to love, honor, etc. until death, not until something better came along.  Obviously, not all marriages can or should be saved.  But after so many years and children together, unless there is something dangerous or otherwise harmful about the relationship, to not even try is a travesty.

When you have children, they do come first.  That is not to say that you ignore your marital relationship.  In fact, I would strongly advise any new married couple and especially anyone with a new baby, to find the time to nurture the marriage while giving those children all that they need.  It is a delicate balance, but those kids need you for a long time and when you make the decision to have them, you better be prepared to stick to that commitment for as long as it takes.  It certainly does not end just because they can drive themselves around or even if they have gone away to school.

Sorry for the lecture, but that statement really pushed a button in me.  I know you're just repeating things you have heard other men say, but I would add a BIG Bu**Sh** factor into it.  If you hear that again, you might want to ask him what he has done lately to make his wife feel special or to nurture the relationship.

Brigid

[Moira]

Greetings all! great topic! with Ns and anit socials etc- I've found that they hav eno feelings and no concept of what love and accountability, responsibility etc are. In my experience they use the word " love" and all the " loving actions"( just threatre arts skills they learn and know when to apply to suck in big hearted and dependant partners- old rescue and misplaced trust rose coloured glasses syndrome- for one reason only. Predatory skill- so simple to use and they're masters at finding appropriate prey- to get what they want. Be it material- wealth, constant adoration, money etc- and once they have it, drain you, and get bored( live for the conquest and have to have constant gratification and stimulation on all levels) - they go hunting again. I agree with statement that younger trophy wives etc are a way of reinforcing their grandiose self image of being the greatest guy- " look what( making partner an object) I've got" " East your hearts out, rest of you losers". Moira

[Gail]

Yes, yes, yes!  XBF used to tell me,"You're the best looking woman here."  Not,  "Gee you look nice", or "You're a wonderful person," or "I think you've done really well on this project" or any real compliment based on a character trait or achievement.  No, those were targets of put downs.  Somebody said that N's ridicule our best qualities and that is surely the truth.  My love for my children, my faith, my achievements--they were all targets for criticism.  Oh, but "I was the best looking woman here."  (Of course, I still needed to "lose that 10 pounds" that he reminded me about every time I saw him.)  Sheez!  Now I can understand why he was so dependent on contiuing to advertise his availability on the personal ads.  Someone prettier, thinner, less attached with children, etc. might come along.  Plus, he told me any attention from the women in cyberspace was "flattering."  I guess that's the N-supply need.

Carla--You can see that your situation has touched a nerve.  Can you please let us know how you're doing? 

Gail

[vunil]

I think a lot of men don't realize the extent to which women, too, want to be the pretty, adored, romantic selves they got to be while dating.  Women also have all of those desires to throw it all away, dance on the wind, go to Club Med, whatever.  Somehow we get cast in this role as the keepers of the family, and it only half fits.  I know a lot of really beautiful, interesting, sexy women who got left by their husbands because of the sort of stuff Dave describes (which I agree goes on-- I didn't mean to imply I thought it didn't or that Dave was condoning it).  The men never seemed to consider that their own wife could have satisfied what they wanted, if they had worked with her instead of just shutting her out.

But maybe there is no logic to it-- it's what Mudpuppy describes.  The weird thing is I think people don't realize the extent to which women retain their womanhood through motherhood the same as men remain men when they have families-- I am not sure why that is. And I think it has as much to do with the man's stereotypes and misunderstandings as it does about anything really going on with his wife.  I have just seen it so many times.  Then the wife gets remarried to some attractive man who sees her for who she is and the husband inevitably seems stunned by the whole thing.

[longtire]

Well, I will side with David P here on this one.  Can the excuse of "I'm not valued enough by my wife" be just an excuse for other reasons, including NPD, selfishness or temporary insanity?  Absolutely!  Can it also be the best way a man knows to explain "my wife uses indirect techniques to avoid intimacy with me?"  Absolutely, again!  Does that mean it is his fault or her fault?  Hard for me to say.  I could see it as the first if the wife had been asking for the things she needs without the husband doing anything useful about it.  I could see it as the second if the wife doesn't bother to express her needs and leaves the husband to guess about it all, since she's already put more emotional stock in her friends, kids, etc. and no longer expects anything useful from her husband.  The more I delve down into these situations in my own life, the less I see victim and victimizer as much as two people trapped by their own ignorance.  Ignorance of themselves more than of the other, though that is there too.

In my case, my wife's relationship with her mother has ALWAYS been more important to her than her relationship to me.  I only realized this within the last 2 years or so.  Actually, I think that she has been enmeshed with her mother all her life.  That is certainly what her mother tried to force her to do while she was growing up.  I had no chance.  It so extreme, that when my wife "sees" or "hears" me, she can't figure out why her mother is saying or doing that.     In other words, she has a hard time relating to me because she has not sufficiently individuated from her mother yet.  I'm pretty sure that this one is not my fault.     I'm also sure there are many other, less extreme, versions of this one as well with both men and women.

I told my wife many times what I wanted and needed.  She always forgot or, worse, claimed I had never told her.  She blamed me for her not meeting any of my needs and wants.  I would have been much happier if she told me to stuff it, that she did not feel like meeting any of my needs and wants.  But, being co-dependent as I WAS, I would patiently or not so patiently tell her again for the hundredth time.  When I asked what she wanted, she would reluctantly tell me.  But then, somehow I could never do it right, or often enough, or in the right way, or at the right time, etc.  If I really tried extremely hard for a while, she would grudgingly admit that I had done it right after all, but now she realizes she needs step 2 as well before she can reciprocate in any positive way.  Oh, and she would never admit on her own that I had done what she asked or that it had any value to her, I had to ask why it still wasn't having any positive effect.  When I reached step 2 there was a step 3, and on and on.  I never once got to the end of this endless chain.  I believe with her it is about appearing good and "normal" and perfect, but doing anything to avoid intimacy as that stimulates her panic and terror of the overwhelmed enmeshment she had with her mother gorwing up.  On one hand, she hates her mother and wants to escape from her.  On the other hand, she is completely connected and terrified of being alone.  What can I do in the face of that?  Again, I'm sure that there are many degrees of this with both men and women.

At this point, I'm less concerned about being valued by my wife as I would being treated like a human being rather than an object, and not being verbally and emotionally abused any longer.  What if she were less rigid?  Would I be the one saying "She doesn't value me," right now too?  If I were less co-dependent and terrified of abandonment, would I simply have left a long time ago?  After re-reading this, I'm not sure if it adds to the discussion, but if feels good to get it off my chest.

[vunil]

Hi, Longtire-- But you wouldn't cheat on your wife without ever giving her the slightest sense you were unhappy, right?  I think that's the negative part of the behavior, not being unhappy in a marriage.  Anyone can be unhappy, it's just cruel not to let the other person know and to find someone else instead, dropping this "I am leaving" bomb out of the blue.