Author Topic: Double standards  (Read 10494 times)

Certain Hope

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Double standards
« on: July 21, 2006, 11:48:09 AM »
Hi,

I want to thank Mud, Sugarre, and Brigid. Your responses this morning on the "Racism Topic" thread have helped me so much to identify some of what's been going on within my own heart and mind these past couple days.  I'm not posting on that thread because what I feel like I need to say has nothing to do with racism. On that topic, I absolutely agree with Mud's logical, rational assessment and definition of terms and only wish I could think that clearly.

Sugarre, I want to apologize to you for my flip remark re: your "chiming in". I can see that I'd made some false assumptions and wrong judgments about you and I'm sorry. I was wrong to do that. It's a rotten habit of mine to think that I can see the end from the beginning. My own narrowmindedness led me to assess that you were capitalize on RM's ...ermmm.... vulnerability. Your Dad sounds an awful lot like mine, who in many ways resembles Archie B. I, too, have been ashamed at his ignorance, but have loved him nonetheless.

Brigid, to me your words in your reply on the Racism thread are like apples of gold in settings of silver. My hope is to have a calm enough heart and mind to express myself as well without getting tripped up by overcharged emotions. All of the feelings appear in your writing, but under proper restraint. I respect and admire that so much.


I made several posts to the Victims of Narcs thread after it turned into a discussion of racism. Yesterday, I deleted those posts.
Not because my views had changed, but rather because I gave in to fear. Since then, I've interpreted my own behavior as "wimping out" and evidencing a real lack of integrity. I was afraid, and so I silenced myself. That's no one's responsibility but my own. However, I am seeing a definite pattern both in how some  peoples' personalities and expressions  bring out my strongest desires to speak up and conversely, how other folks' personalities and manners of expression bring out my desperate urge to flee.

Maybe there's not much point in even reviewing this now. But possibly, someone else might recognize aspects of his own "m.o." in what I'm trying to describe here.

When Plucky first raised the issue of racism, I was a bit dismayed that I hadn't taken issue with it myself, even privately, yet I zoned in instantly on her "pearls before swine" remark. I wondered what was wrong with me to not have been disturbed by it.

Next, what I thought I was observing was a combo of Plucky and Sugarre refusing to acknowledge that anyone could possibly remain silent on the issue of this alleged racist remark and still "care" about the issue. I identified with Hops when I perceived her as running around like a headless chicken trying to defend herself against these accusations of not taking a firm enough stand. (Please don't take offense, Hops. Headless chicken references may not be p.c., but it's the visual I got. I think you're wonderful and trying so hard to do/say the right things... I truly felt compelled to jump to your defense ~ in fact, the defense of the whole group ~ which I saw as being attacked). 
I saved the posts which I deleted yesterday, because I was feeling so insecure about whether my approach was correct or not. This is how I'd expressed it what I thought and felt I was seeing:

I'm sensing a bullying dynamic here which I perceive as worthy of comment. This forum offers each of us an opportunity to express our voices as we see fit, so here I am to honestly say... I think it's just as abusive to berate people for not speaking up as it is to attempt to silence them.

What I saw initially was a racial reference, not a racial slur. (RM, I do not think that you are racist, either.)

I saw Plucky respond to RM with questions re: this reference, followed by RM's prompt reply giving further info based on her personal experience.

Enter Sugarre, who has shown an obvious distaste for other things that RM has had to say in the past, pouncing on this particular discussion and adding fuel to the flames. (I immediately wondered, Sugarre, whether you would have chimed in if someone other than RM had been involved.)

I think that those who would judge the mindset, intent, and motivation of an entire group based on how its members perceive an individual comment and whether or not they choose to respond, are just as intolerant and judgmental as any racist. That sort of biased thinking leaves no room for individuality of expression, but is based on narrowminded selfrighteousness just as much as any religious argument I've ever heard. We each have the privilege here to speak or not to speak, based on our own free will choice. Enlighten us by expressing your views... that's great. But you have no right to tell us how we should think or feel or what should be our truth.

Hope


And then along came Portia. The way in which I interpreted her post to me is what shut me down. I have not felt so voiceless in ages. Even now, I can "hear" her saying, as she has already said to Storm on the new Racism thread, "so what. Your opinion, not facts, who cares "   That's one message which is so deeply engrained within me that it still creates a total shut down. I'm not blaming my own baggage on Portia, nor am I using my baggage as an excuse for my own mistakes/ errors in judgment. What I am doing is making a determination to overcome this truckload of fear. I wrote a post to Portia yesterday to express how I felt about what I viewed as her intrusion into the mix, purely for the sake of stirring the pot. I saved that post, too, and here it is:

Portia,

It's my perception, based on the interactions I've witnessed on this board, that you regularly tend to insert yourself into the midst of conflicts. My awareness of that pattern gives me great pause in even responding to you here, but I'm trying to view this as an exercise in better communication vs. hiding in my little corner. So here goes...
First of all, I am not in a position, nor is it my desire, to analyze the motivations behind anything you say; all that I have to work with here is my own observations of  peoples' words and their patterns of relating. Personally, I tend to avoid conflict at all costs, and so part of my own healing is to push myself to speak up when I feel strongly about difficult issues. I felt strongly this morning about what I viewed as an attempt to bully and shame members into defending their views. I still do. I myself have done plenty of scurrying around in the past, trying to defend myself against the onslaught of other peoples' priority issues and their demands that I make their issues my own. I guess that's why I still tend to avoid those for whom I sense that conflict is a passion and a thrill. Because of that avoidance, I would not generally respond to your statements, but in the interest of further clarification, I'll try to express to you what I observed today.

I stated my view re: a conflict which had arisen in this thread. I always try to preface my posts with the phrase  "I think, I believe, imo, it seems to me", or something to that effect. In fact, at the beginning of the final paragraph of my post which you've brought into question here, I did just that. I began that paragraph with the words "I think", with no intent of doing anything other than expressing my view, with full awareness that I do not manage this group. I'm not so sure that you are aware of that, though. Despite the fact that none of my comments were addressed to you, you took it upon yourself to pronounce to me the rules of communication on this board and ask my view of them. I interpreted that as your assertion of your position that I needed to be set straight and you were just the one to do it.
I replied by agreeing with your version of the guidelines and advising you that those same rules apply to you, as well. Why would I choose to point out to you what you claim to already know?  Because it appeared to me that you'd delegated yourself to fill the role of board moderator and I found that to be quite presumptuous of you.
    Portia, I believe that I made it clear that I was stating my own views in my post re: others who would try to tell me what I should think, and how I should respond. I do not believe that I broke any rules of this forum. It is certainly your prerogative to disagree with my view, but I'm not going to debate with you whether or not I should have expressed it.  You see, I get the impression that you think you've taken the high road by expressing concern for the poster in question, as though that puts you into a position of moral superiority which entitles you to judge me. This whole thread, imo, is loaded with expressions of supposed moral superiority and judgment. I'm thankful to have a voice to express my disagreement with that.


But I couldn't stand it. I was literally sickened at the thought of what her reply might be, and what other fire my expression might draw from other corners. So I deleted. That is warped. I don't want to be warped. Nor do I want to be led around by the nose by my feelings, but in this case, both my opinion and my sentiments stand and I need to stand by them.  I reallize that others may not care. My opinions, my perspectives, who cares. It doesn't matter. What matters to me is integrity and honesty and not running away from a challenge.

Re: the double-standard, which is the title of this thread after all....  that's what I see today when I read Portia on the Racism thread.  Yesterday I used the words "You have no right" and she was ever so anxious to inform me that everyone has a right to say what he/she chooses. The last time I dealt with someone who applied the "rules" to everyone but himself, he was waving a knife in my face. The only knife Portia wields is her words and what I view as her thoughtless, self-centered, pompous, domineering manner of abusing others with them. I'm not going to be intimidated out of speaking my thoughts and my heart by someone who obviously uses anger as an excuse to not care about anyone but herself.

Thanks for listening.

Hope



mudpuppy

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Re: Double standards
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2006, 12:07:09 PM »
Well, you're definitely not running away from a challenge.

mud

Bones

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Re: Double standards
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2006, 12:32:04 PM »
I'm going to take a risk and ask a question.  Having grown up with Nparents, how can we break the cycle and not pass on/inflict Ncharacteristics/Nbehaviors to each other?  Could we be unconsciously reacting the only way we know how without realizing the pattern?

Bones

Hopalong

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Re: Double standards
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2006, 12:38:36 PM »
I like being viewed as a chicken, optional head.
I'm free-range.

Hope, I like Portia a lot partly because she uses words like Jackson Pollack, though that's also risky.
Over time, I've noted she can't hold a grudge for an hour. Underneath her apparent
rudeness I find a vulnerable, super-smart person whom I find quite loveable. I think
she goes blooey only when she's frustrated or somebody's gotten out of bounds, in
the sense of lecturing her instead of engaging, or being morally superior. But I'll quit triangulating.

I do understand how complex the mesh of personalities is, here or anywhere. I truuuuuly do.
How one person experiences another always comes through very unique filters and loops.
And nobody can make anybody like somebody else...that is true enough.

So I will be sending you both mushy love vibes because I like you too, Hope.
You are a profoundly sincere and gracious person, I can tell your effort to live
your values is completely heartfelt and genuine.

Hope things work out well...it will be a learning thing anyway.
love to you both,

Hoppingchicken

PS--Mud, Mud, Mud.  :)
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Sela

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Re: Double standards
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2006, 01:01:37 PM »
Hope, I'm so sorry he was waving a knife in your face and I'm glad you got away from that horrible situation.

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those for whom I sense that conflict is a passion and a thrill.

Whoa Hope!!  Any possibility that you could be sensing incorrectly?  You are certain of this?  How do you do that?

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The only knife Portia wields is her words and what I view as her thoughtless, self-centered, pompous, domineering manner of abusing others with them.

Could your view be off?  Influenced by past events that seem similar...like she's seems similar to someone else maybe?

Is it possible she reminds you of that knife wielding person and you're actually fighting back then, only it's now and she's not him?

Have you ever used anyone's own medicine against them?  Tried to shock them into hearing you by giving them a dose of what they've been dishing out?

I have.   :oops: :oops: I know I have.  Are you doing that now?

Hope, do you consider the manner, the words you've just written there about Portia to be thoughtful, unselfish, meek and totally unauthoritarian??  :shock:

I think double standard is a good title for your thread.  Aren't we all capable of applying a double standard now and then?  In high emotional states?  When we're upset?  As a reaction?

Not good excuses, I know.  I don't have many.  :roll:

Here's a biggie.....



Have you made Portia the enemy....the scapegoat.....the receptical of your fury?

Sela



PS:  Ofcourse, my usual disclaimer.  Don't answer a thing just because I asked.  No need to for certain.  Indeed, these questions are just for you to consider or discard, as you see fit.  And I do not have any bad intentions toward you, no matter who you might think I represent or who you may have
decided I'm like or what you think of me, my motives, my manners or anything else.  Think at will.  Just be careful about how you express it (to avoid regrets, I mean, or at least....take it from one who gets big cases of foot in mouth disease quite regularly......that has been my experience sometimes).

Words can be like whips eh?  Sorry you felt silenced yesterday (I know that's not my place to appologise for).  I just feel sorry that that happened.
Here, especially.

PPS:

P?  You ok?  It's hot eh?  Jeepers.  A nice cool glass of ice tea would go good about now.  8) Lot's of ice.  My poor dogs are unable to move.  Fried.

Total opposite of frozen by fear.

I don't think you enjoy conflict or get a thrill from it.  I think you feel passionate about stuff, just like lot's of people.
I don't think you are thoughtless or self-centred or pompous or your manner is domineering or that you abuse others.
You're not an abuser P, those were mean things to say and I bet it hurt to read it.

Not true.  Don't believe it.  Misplaced fury again, I suspect.  Maybe I'm wrong.  :roll:  I don't know much.  That's my bet.

Certain Hope

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Re: Double standards
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2006, 01:16:36 PM »
Thanks Hops  :D   I understand and I appreciate your views very much. Your loyalty to your friends is a very admirable quality and I  hope that I can live up to your assessment of me.

I can wrap my mind around your description of Portia, but I don't "feel" it. For the purposes of understanding what makes me go blooey, I have to suspend assumptions and be a bit more objective. OK, alot more objective. I don't know how to say this without coming right out with it, so here goes... the concept of a loveable hothead just doesn't compute with me. When I think of someone who goes off at will and then forgets all about it in an hour, that seems like total irresponsibility to me, and quite shallow. In fact, people who behave like that are often the ones who appear to me to be striking  the "morally superior" pose.  Maybe it's about  mirroring. I think that I do that, too. Which brings me to another observation. Nothing new or earthshattering, but isn't it true that a quality or characteristic we most dislike in another is often a trait that we detest within ourselves? Still working on that one. And here's something that's just now dawning on me. Why am I feeling this need to analyze what it is I'm finding so objectionable about a person in order to move on? I think because I learned avoidance from my mother. When someone rubbed her the wrong way, she simply wrote them off. There was no 3 strikes and yer out. No grace. Just ~ phhht... you were off the list of humanity. I don't want to be that way. Nor do I want to engage in verbal blows with someone who lies in wait to pick apart every word I say and if it comes to that, I guess I'll have to employ ignore, but I'd rather not.  I'd like to clean my filters and straighten out my loops (is that a kind way of sayin I'm loopy, Hops??  :P)  I am feeling a bit loopy now. Can I claim perimenopause?  :shock:  Where was I?  Oh, yes. Well maybe this was all about saying how I feel and now my air is refreshed. Maybe I've managed to putrify Portia's air in the process and maybe that was selfish. I hope not.  I know that there's always a risk that people with a personality conflict will step on each other's toes, but I was at the point of walking away from this forum because of my own sense of feeling threatened and I don't think that is all in my imagination. I don't know how to go on from here except to keep plowing ahead. No matter what, I know it's better than running away.

Hope

P.S. to Bones ~ I'd say that's exactly what is going on here... reacting the only way I learned how. What's different now is that it's not so unconscious. I realize it and I want to change it, not by sniping or blowing up but by approaching conflict with a cool head and a warm heart. Don't have either one nailed down yet, but working on it.

Certain Hope

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Re: Double standards
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2006, 01:38:51 PM »
Thanks Sela.

I'm glad and thankful also to have gotten away from N. T

hanks for your questions, too. As I've said throughout this post, everything I've written has been presented from my own perception. I believe that every human being's view is influenced by past events, including mine. I also believe that if we fail to learn from history, we are destined to repeat its mistakes. My view is all I have by which to guage reality. I can't allow the possibility that I may be mistaken to prevent me from moving forward and addressing issues which are vital to me. What I can do is my best to communicate clearly what is on my mind and heart, remaining receptive to new input as it comes along.

No, Sela, using someone's "own medicine" against them is not my style. I don't even like to watch people get hurt in movies. I am generally most likely to just quietly disappear rather than to try to teach anyone a lesson.

Sela, I consider the words I used here to be the truth as I know it. The truth is not always sweet and pleasant. Love does not always drip with sugary goo. Sometimes love speaks hard truths. Again, all I have is the truth as I perceive it to be.

Sela, you said:   I think double standard is a good title for your thread.  Aren't we all capable of applying a double standard now and then?  In high emotional states?  When we're upset?  As a reaction?

I infer from this that you think I am holding a double standard here. One for myself and one for Portia. I disagree. I am not in a high emotional state. I am not upset or reactive. What I am is committed to not running away from conflict. Yesterday I was quite angry. That's why I deleted my posts. I didn't want to react in anger. Since I have no fury, I don't need a receptacle ... although that is quite a colorful image. Maybe you'd understand better if you could imagine that I have always been my own receptacle. That's a lonely existence. As I tried to express above, the only way I knew how to deal with perceived conflict was to avoid it. I have never raged. I'm not raging now... only trying to communicate. I have to assume that you're trying to do the same. Thanks for your thoughts.

Hope

Sela

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Re: Double standards
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2006, 02:01:52 PM »
Hey CH:

Thanks for responding to me.  That's better than employing ignore.  I like that.

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No, Sela, using someone's "own medicine" against them is not my style. I don't even like to watch people get hurt in movies. I am generally most likely to just quietly disappear rather than to try to teach anyone a lesson.

Hope, I'm not asking if this is your style or your usual approach.  I'm asking if you have ever done it?  Ever misbehaved in this way?
I'm not insinuating that this is something you would do on a regular basis.  The point I'm trying to make is that we are all capable of behaving badly.  Everyone is capable, I think.

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I consider the words I used here to be the truth as I know it. The truth is not always sweet and pleasant. Love does not always drip with sugary goo. Sometimes love speaks hard truths. Again, all I have is the truth as I perceive it to be.


Fair enough.  So this is your truth.  I'm glad you said that.  That makes a difference.  It's not mine or Hops's
or whoever else's then.  Good thing.  I totally disagree that there is love in your words or that your truth is some kind of hard love.  Do you mean to say you are trying to help Portia by insulting her?  Giving her one of those "gifts" she mentioned awhile back.

I disagree with your methods, if that's the case.  Your words seem to me to be an attack.  Insulting.  Degrading.  Rude.  Malicious.  And not intended to help but to harm.  To hurt.   Sorry.  That's my truth and it's how I percieve your words.  Not meant to help you either.  Just plain what I see.

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I infer from this that you think I am holding a double standard here

I see your complaint about being silenced.....feeling like someone was trying to silence you.....feeling afraid to voice......and now......your clearly insulting, blunt, hurtful words to another member of this board.....as an attempt to silence....induce a fear to voice....etc as a certain double standard, yes.   Fight fire with fire.  It seems like you are trying to dole out what you felt???  I could be wrong about that, that's for sure.  That's just what it looks like to me.

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What I am is committed to not running away from conflict.


But Portia just enjoys it?

I think you have more in common with her than you may realize.  Possible?  Maybe eh?  Maybe not?

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I have always been my own receptacle. That's a lonely existence.

I'm sorry for that.  I'm sorry for so many labels that get unfairly applied to people.  You included.  Portia too.

Those weren't fair, kind, loving or otherwise good labels you profess as truth.  They were mean words.  That's what I see and it's not like I've never said anything mean to anyone in my life either.  I have.  :oops:

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I have never raged.

Sorry.  Fury is probably the wrong word to have used.  (I also get a picture of the lone ranger riding a black horse when I use that word.   :roll:  Fury can be a good thing, I think, too, sometimes).

That was the wrong label.  I have no idea what you feel inside and sure do not mean to let on that I do.

I don't like the way you belittled Portia.  Said she was abusing.  And how you don't think it's abusive...what you said.

Seems like a double standard to me.  I am trying to communicate.  My truth.

Sela

Certain Hope

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Re: Double standards
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2006, 02:25:03 PM »
Hi again, Sela,

I guess I wasn't specific enough. I'll give it another try:  No,  I don't believe that I've ever used the tactic of giving someone a taste of his own medicine. I disagree with your description of that tactic as misbehavior, though. I understand that it can be quite a useful teaching tool with children. I've just never utilized it. That doesn't mean I'm not capable of behaving badly. I don't operate under any illusion of perfection. I think I've behaved badly every time I've walked away from confrontation because of fear. No one grows when conflicts are not faced directly.

I understand that you disagree with my approach, Sela.  I don't need you to see things my way in order to respect you as a human being, nor do I require validation from you in order to trust my own sense and reason and follow through with what I believe is right. I think that's what makes us each individuals... being able to think for ourselves and act independently from either popular opinion or another individual who expresses a contrary view.

I see a contradiction in this statement of yours:  I disagree with your methods, if that's the case.  Your words seem to me to be an attack.  Insulting.  Degrading.  Rude.  Malicious.  And not intended to help but to harm.  To hurt.   Sorry.  That's my truth and it's how I percieve your words.  Not meant to help you either.  Just plain what I see.

In that paragraph, you seem to be telling me that you perceive me as wrong (rude, malicious, et al) for expressing "my truth" because I lack intent to "help".  And yet in telling me that, you say that you are expression your truth, your perception of me, which you admit is not meant to help me either. But that's ok?  I don't get it. Are you requiring that my expressions must be based on an intent to help someone whereas you are entitled to state whatever you see as your truth regardless of intent to help? Is that not your own double standard?

Hope


Sela

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Re: Double standards
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2006, 02:43:36 PM »
Hey again Hope.

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In that paragraph, you seem to be telling me that you perceive me as wrong (rude, malicious, et al) for expressing "my truth" because I lack intent to "help".

Nope.  I'm saying your words are rude, malicious, etc.  Not you.

You are a good person, I bet.

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And yet in telling me that, you say that you are expression your truth, your perception of me, which you admit is not meant to help me either. But that's ok?

Nope.  I'm not telling you my impression of you.  My impression of you is that of someone who is bravely standing up for something.  I just don't like the way you're doing it.  I don't like you using mean words to another member.  I'm expressing my dislike of your behaviour of choosing hurtful words to use against another, not you.

You are probably a fine human being.  I don't know you well enough to say much else.  I bet you're ok, though.  Just like most people.

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I don't get it. Are you requiring that my expressions must be based on an intent to help someone


Nope.  I'm challenging your insinuation that that's what they were meant as.  I don't believe it's the best way to help others....by using mean words.  That's all.  It's not any kind of direction.  It's my opinion.

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whereas you are entitled to state whatever you see as your truth regardless of intent to help?

Are we talking about rights now?  How did we get here?  Ok.  Let's talk about rights.

Are we all entitled to say whatevertheheck pops out of our mouths/fingers to eachother here?
Are we required to have intention to help, whenever we speak?
Is there some kind of happy medium???? (oh...for the love of happy mediums!!  :D :D)

I think, you were insinuating that you were trying to give hard love to Portia, with your mean words.  Is that what you mean was your purpose?  If so, I don't like the way you did that.

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Is that not your own double standard?

I can see how you interpreted my words as meaning some kind of definition of you, which they are not meant to be, and how you might see that as a double standard.  Not what I meant.  Not you....your behaviour.  Your method.  Your specific words.  I find abusive.  Rude.  Malicious.

Sorry if you think I mean you.....are those things.  I don't.  You are a good person, I very much bet.

Sela

Sela

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Re: Double standards
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2006, 03:03:02 PM »
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her words and what I view as


It's ok for you to say someone's words are abusive but not ok for me to say yours are?

I see that as a double standard.

Now I am trying to help.  Do you see what I mean?

Is there a better way you can think of to communicate besides labelling someone as thrill-seeking and calling someone's words all kinds of fancy adjectives?
You didn't like it when I called your words "rude, malicious, degrading, abusive"...did you?

This is not a tactic.  It's just what I realized seems to have happened here.  :idea: :idea:

Sela

Certain Hope

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Re: Double standards
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2006, 03:10:10 PM »
OK, Sela... I think I see.  This is becoming a bit dizzy-making, but I'll continue for as long as I'm able.

You said, "I think, you were insinuating that you were trying to give hard love to Portia, with your mean words.  Is that what you mean was your purpose?"  

Wow, I had to look up the word "insinuate", because it carries such negative connotations in my mind. Per Webster online, the definition is: To introduce or otherwise convey (a thought, for example) gradually and insidiously.

Insidiously = more negative connotations. Per Webster again:  Working or spreading harmfully in a subtle or stealthy manner: insidious rumors; an insidious disease.
Intended to entrap; treacherous: insidious misinformation.
Beguiling but harmful; alluring: insidious pleasures.

So basically you're asking me, was I trying to be treacherous?  The answer is no.

I'm going to drop all the "seem tos" and "my impressions"  and other supposedly pc expressions which leave room for ambiguity and try to give the reader's digest version of what I see happening in this convo between you and me, Sela.

You have accused me of not playing "nice". My response to that is ~ "nice" is not always the answer. There's been nothing insidious or insinuating about anything I've tried to express here. In fact, I'm being as direct as I know how. Sometimes confrontation is necessary. In confronting difficult issues, the truth is not always so pleasant. I have described how I felt ~ bullied and dominated. From what I've seen on a concurrent thread on this board, the bullying and raging continue, so I know this is not just something I've fabricated. I didn't think you were trying to define me, Sela... no problem there. I just think you'd like me to shut up  :)   Since I don't know of any other way to explain my position than what I've already said to you, I'll do just that for now.

Hope

portia guest

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Re: Double standards
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2006, 03:14:35 PM »
Certain Hope, I just checked in again and my, I just love being talked about! Hey you can't see my face, my body, you don't know if I'm joking or serious, antagonistic or calm.

I'm calm and I'm genuinely, sincerely, honestly very glad to see you posting and yes - saying exactly what you think about my posts, about our exchange yesterday.

Okay, I admit, I skipped down this page real fast, because i thought 'oh-oh, I might get an emotional response come up if I read all this' ..... so I haven't read in depth.

I just let one idea, one thought, dominate as I saw you respond and post and that was:

great. You've got guts and determination and staying power and the ability to discuss, to reflect.

Very opinionated and judgemental of me to say those things, who am i to judge you?

Nobody. But you judge me don't you? (That's okay, your opinion.) So I judge you and I like it that you've come back. I do. Maybe hard to believe?

I would hate to think that anyone left because of some garbage I'd posted, because that would be sad. Not my fault, but a person who leaves ...makes me sad. Someone who will turn their back and walk away. Anyway, I'm glad you're not like that.

I won't read your posts now but I will, and try to see if I can imagine how you felt, how you think. I'll try real hard not to take anything personally. Okay? And even if I am hurt or upset, I'll try and say the 'I' phrases and communicate with intent to resolve any misunderstanding.

note: Yes I have history with others here. Some of us have been here for years so we have shared a lot. You can see when we joined from our profiles I think. Imagine if you were here talking to me in two years' time! We'd probably know each other better and some things we could reduce to shorthand; which might confuse others. Time does play a part in how people react to each other. You get to know someone better - even in cyberspace - over time i think.


Certain Hope

  • Guest
Re: Double standards
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2006, 03:20:49 PM »
Sounds like a plan, Portia.

I'm calm too, so we should do well.

Hope

Sela

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1273
Re: Double standards
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2006, 03:23:26 PM »
Hi again Hope:

Certainly not!  Do not shut up!!  I hate that expression!  Keep talking!

By the word insinuate, I simply meant....imply.  I did not take the word or use the word to mean the full and total definition and absolutely did not think of it as meaning treacherous, nor was I trying to insinuate that about you.
Nope.  Not what I meant at all.

Aren't words tricky??

I agree with you that confronting is sometimes necessary.  I just disagree, that we have to be mean about it.
I can agree to disagree.

I think maybe you'd like me to shut up??  No prob.  For now.  Maybe I'm wrong about that?  Wouldn't be the first time.  :roll:

Sela