What's Happened to the Community?

[Brigid]

I feel as though this place (VESMB) has lost its sense of community and has become one of choosing sides.  Or, if you don't want to be on a side or are not chosen by the leader of that side to be a member, you fade away because you no longer feel as though you have anything to contribute, or your sense of safety in offering a comment has disappeared.

I don't know if I am the only one who has noticed, but how many new people have joined the board recently?  How many new stories have come forth?  Virtually none that I have seen, or the poster posts once and is never heard from again.  Why is that?  Are we so wrapped up in our own issues and declaring our right to say whatever we want, however we want that we can't take time to welcome and offer support to someone new who has come here for help?

New stories bring about new insights, imo.  New topics bring about new opportunities for healing and growth.  I feel like so much of what is being talked about is the same thing, from the same people with perhaps just a different spin. 

Old people are leaving or have left already, new people aren't joining.  What does that tell us about our community?  Communities won't grow and prosper unless visitors feel safe and welcome to become members of the community.  They will "buy a home" somewhere else where they can find some friendly neighbors and maybe someone will even show up with a plate of cookies.

Brigid

[Portia]

Brigid

we all are the community, including you!

How about calling your thread ‘welcome to the community!’ you might get newbies posting in reply??

Possible? Or I’m going to start posting daft topics like “so what’s your attachment style?” or “do the 4 agreements make sense to you” or “how long were you in denial’ or ‘anyone want to see my holiday photos’ or ‘ recipes for self-awareness’ or ‘loving your body when you’re an INTJ’ or……acupuncture for back pain (serious) or …save me quick!
 

[Certain Hope]

Hi Brigid,

  Thank you for presenting the opportunity to address your concerns about this community. I have concerns, as well.

   I think that in any social setting there are bound to be cliques. I've never been part of one, nor do I intend to be a part of one here. I do think that there are cliques on this board, but that they will be exposed and seen for what they are in due time, if people do not give in to any attempts to pressure them into silence. There are some people here that I neither like nor trust. I don't see anything unusual about that... some people will simply not get along. I will not go about deliberately trying to offend them or anyone else. I will do my level best to stay out of their path.

   What exactly is the source of the pressure you're feeling, Brigid? Are you feeling pressure because no one is jumping through hoops in an attempt to woo back the few people who said they were taking a brief leave of absence? Is it because people who have chosen to continue posting are still trying to sort through the residue of recent experiences (which are, in fact, usually based on old experiences, which alot of us share in common)? I don't know what you see as the most desireable solution to all of this. Would everything be fine if those of us who were charged with responsibility for the last blow up would just hush? Should we slink away into the gloom and let the conversation return to glib discussions of current events?
   This is supposed to be a place of healing and growth, and yet I feel,  Brigid, as though you think those of us who are posting are expected to be above and beyond all of this. Well, obviously we're not. Should we be able to simply pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and play nice? I'm trying to play nice! I'm trying to learn how to play even nicer. But I'm not a therapist or expert of any kind and all I can do is try to be honest and not purposefully, intentionally, set out to cause anyone any harm. I'm just trying to learn like everyone else. I can't learn without expressing myself here. I do not, however,  post simply for the sake of expressing myself at any cost. I have bitten my tongue and sat on my fingers on many, many occasions. I do not look for opportunities to speak up in my own defense, or for anyone else to speak up in my defense. I will not, however, sit back and tolerate lies being spoken about me. That I will correct to the best of my ability, not to cause anyone else harm. That's where I stand.

   I also value the new stories that come to the board, but not at the expense of silencing the old stories. I haven't seen any new people be ignored. Really, I haven't. Maybe we can start a thread welcoming each new name/member we see join, inviting them to introduce themselves when they're prepared to do that. If anyone has any other thoughts on that, I'd be glad to help. But I don't view any of what goes on here as a waste. It's all learning and whether it seems positive or negative to any one individual at a certain moment, all depends on where you are in the spectrum of healing, imo.

  Brigid, I have great respect for you and I value your opinions. I hope that you will be able to hear what I'm trying to express here, despite the lack of mooshy squooshiness in the content. I am not feeling real mooshy or squooshy at the moment, only determined to not be silenced. I see your point of view. I hope you see mine.

With love,
Hope

[Certain Hope]

P.S. to Portia,

I never did read up on the 4 agreements. Looking forward to that info!

Love,
Hope

[Portia]

CH

it's now on my 'to do on the board' list! I have to go, bye for now.P

[Stormchild]

Hi Brigid

It's interesting - I was thinking just yesterday how surprised I was at the folks who have shown up here lately because the discussions have drawn them in.

Wouldja believe? 44 new members joined between June 1 and today, I just looked at the memberlist. Really, 44. They're not talking a lot - but I don't know what the ratio of lurkers to posters normally is. But 44 folks in 66 days ain't bad... I think there is something positive going on, for people to still be signing up like that, there must be.

Maybe the activity here is actually drawing people closer.

Groups develop in stages.

There's forming, when they first come together and have kind of a honeymoon, and then storming [no, I swear that's not why I picked my name, it never even crossed my mind] where they discover places of friction and conflict and the honeymoon ends...

What comes next is crucial, either the group backs away from the storming process because it's too unpleasant, or they push through and come out on the other side --- if a group never weathers its storm, it stalls, and people just kind of hang out and try to recreate the honeymoon phase. That's fine for a cybercafe but might not be so good for a recovery group.

Because only after the storm comes the group integration phase where there is an increase of morale, mutual trust, and self-disclosure, and people bring things out to work on and that goes faster and deeper than it ever did, and the results last and last. [Norming and performing, in the model I'm referring to - Tuckman, 1965.] [Added on edit: it's not all work either, there's plenty room for play, and as a bonus the playing doesn't end in tears as often either, because of the new awareness people have.]

I don't think we've ever gotten through a storm... not this group, earlier ones may have...

but oh dear lord, i hope, i pray, this time we might.

and I'm worried sick that I've just hexed this process by articulating it... please god, not.

and I'm not sure how this process works in cyberspace, where groups aren't static, they flow, folks come in and out at any time... but I swear, I feel it trying to happen here... I swear I do.

and no, I'm really truly not a mental health professional... I'm part of this, I'm trying to keep an even keel on these seas too, holding fast to my sea anchor, and praying like mad.

And I started looking for this information a couple of weeks ago... I didn't remember any of this, although a therapist did mention those four stages to me once, long ago.

((((((((((Brigid))))))))))

[reallyME]

Brigid: New stories bring about new insights, imo.  New topics bring about new opportunities for healing and growth.  I feel like so much of what is being talked about is the same thing, from the same people with perhaps just a different spin. 

hmmm, yep that's me...Miss Same Ole Same Ole...I'm still not hushing up nor leaving, however, unless Dr G tells me to, since it is his board.

I have seen people on here become a lot more nasty than I even come close to, and they are rallied around and supported at others' expense.  That is just LIFE, HUMANITY...welcome to the WORLD!

It's a message board, a support system, a place to be FREE to be YOU.  I see nothing wrong with it.  Nobody need agree with anyone else...typical of how the secular world runs itself anyway.  In the CHRISTIAN church I go to, everyone must conform to an extent...here, no.  That is my view on it.

As a result of how PB handled things in our last disagreement, I feel more comfortable and close with her than I have ever felt before.  For me, it was not a loss to just be who I am, point out what I see, and consider what others saw about me.  I'm growing, changing and ENJOYING every minute of it.

~Laura

[Certain Hope]

Stormy,

  I really appreciate reading the perspective you offer re: group dynamics and growth. It all makes absolute sense to me!

I thought that I'd seen many new join-ups to the group here, from day to day, but didn't have any confirmation of that fact. It's very reassuring to know that people are wanting to become members, whether they post at first or not. I hope that they will feel free to post, because I believe that in the sort of open, non-defensive style of communication we can develop here, we each have so much to offer one another. I firmly believe in coming out the other side, in growing through the storms, in facing problems directly and non-evasively, AND in each individual's right to determine when a horse is dead. I'm in this for the duration, whatever comes, and will do my part to not be a hitch in the git-along. Thanks, Stormy. I feel energized!

With love,
Hope

[Stormchild]

Hi Hope

This is just what I see - I hope it's what's there [on edit: because if it is what's there it's healthy, even if it's uncomfortable] - it fits with what's happening - but it's just what I see. I'm glad this stuff makes sense to you, too, though.

[penelope]

As a result of how PB handled things in our last disagreement, I feel more comfortable and close with her than I have ever felt before.  For me, it was not a loss to just be who I am, point out what I see, and consider what others saw about me.  I'm growing, changing and ENJOYING every minute of it.

Thank you for remembering and seeing the positive things RM.  I think that's important.  Cause it sort of feels like people are trying to rewrite history.  People who were perhaps on the "fringes" of our conflict may have experienced it differently than we did, but it does not change how I felt while we were working through our conflict (calm, and safe) and it does not change how I felt when I realized I needed to make a change (panicked, fearful that I'd screwed up - again), and it does not change how I felt when your words were suddenly neutralized and I realized that they are the SAME WORDS.  They are the same words you've been using all along, I suddenly realized their Intent, and I trusted that you are not my N mother, or my enabling sisters and I realized that I had been projecting a lot of my stuff onto you.  So then I felt Happy.  My heart felt happy and peaceful, mostly because I think you saw this change in me and you did not attack me and say I TOLD YOU SO.  You said, it's OK.  I forgive you cause I know where you're coming from.  Was it "wrong" of me to be happy cause of the way you reacted?  Should I have been more happy just about myself?  I don't think so.  I think this place is a place of healing between people (here I completely agres with hops).  It doesn't happen in a vacuum.  It doesn't happen alone.  It happens only because others are here and are helping me.  I can't do it alone.  So I'm happy cause we did it together.  Thank you.

It is shameful and I often feel ashamed having grown up in a family of Ns, I feel like I'm defective because of it.  I worry I won't be "normal."  I'm scared that people are going to hang that over my head for the rest of my life if they find out.  RM, you are not doing that, and that makes me trust you, immensely.  Sometimes in order to gain a person's trust, you have to take the first step.  I know that trust builds slowly over time, and I've seen lots of people trusting you more and more over the weeks you've been here RM, and they were truly inspirational to me.  Cause I realized that it could be an error in my thinking, what I thought about your style and your comments, and how your words were impacting me.  Make sense?  And now, I hope you're not too uncomfortable with all this attention RM, cause know what?  Everybody here grates someone the wrong way.  Everybody here, no matter what their style triggers somebody.  That is life.  There is no getting around that.  If we were all brave enough to see and explore the reasons why, we could be at peace with ourselves - which is really my goal. 

The depth psychology I'm working on (HSP workbook) is about exploring my hidden feelings and thoughts, figuring out where they come from with the goal of being more at peace with myself.  Just saying to myself: I'd like to be at peace is not enough - it doesn't just happen because I want it.  If I really Really REALLY want it, though, I will keep plugging, keep working through the painful stuff, keep looking Within and I know I will find the answers.  I'm sure of it, that is one thing I've very optimistic about.  Does it mean I'm never going to have conflicts here or other places?  no, of course not.  But it means I'm one step closer to accepting myself and understanding how it all works, and I think it was a pretty huge victory.

hugs RM, thank you for being you and for being brave all these weeks.  You've been very patient and kind with me.  Really!   

pb

[lupine]

we are all in this together.

[mudpuppy]

Maybe it's not black and white.
Perhaps some conflicts are productive while others are merely nasty.
Perhaps some people at some times learn and grow through conflict while at others they merely wither.
Perhaps some here have learned all they choose to through conflict and prefer a different way.

As for me personally, life is too short and unpleasant aleady to waste any more of my time in spats over, what in the end, are nearly always inconsequential personality conflicts.
There are more important things to me than cyber squabbles. It's hard to think of anything less important.

If others enjoy or learn through these brawls, God bless them, and may they please do me the courtesy of steering clear of me as I will them.

mud

[daylily guest]

This will probably be my last post here, so I might as well say what I feel.

I don't always read this board daily, but it's rare that I go more than two days without at least checking in.  And it seems that lately every time I check in, another thread has started about how the board is falling apart, how people don't respect each other's boundaries or experiences, etc., etc.

I do not come here to see dysfunction in action, but to read (and write) about how we are overcoming the consequences of close association with narcissists.  The stories were often inspirational, compelling, and very touching to me.  When I felt I could offer something, I responded.  And I received tremendous kindness and support from many people here, which has touched me deeply over the difficult last few months.

I never became deeply enmeshed in this board, so I never felt that I belonged to a clique.  I never really understood what was going on well enough to take sides.  I did feel sometimes that everybody in a thread was having a party to which I wasn't invited, but I've felt that way pretty much my whole life.  Sometimes I was very glad to be excluded from whatever conflict was unfolding.

From a distance, it has seemed to me that some of the regular posters here just have to do this.  My guess is that either they engage everybody this way, or they are trying out new muscles of self-awareness and self-defence, and they haven't yet got to the point where they can let anything pass.  I have seen very little conscious malice here, very few comments made with a seeming intent to provoke or hurt.  So I have to say that it always puzzles me that people get so very, very upset.  But then, I've never thought I was on the receiving end, so I don't really know how it feels.

It seems to me that no matter how many times the air is cleared, no matter how many times we promise to do better and be more considerate, somebody, somehow takes offense and it starts all over again.  I don't know why.  All I know is that it seems to be unstoppable.  And it makes me want to come here less and less, because it just sounds like an endless emotional catfight.  It's exhausting, mostly confusing, and it's not at all what I thought this place was about.

So the only way for me to deal with this is to disengage from it.  Let those who thrive on this sort of thing play on.

In the meanwhile, thanks to all who have helped me, and I wish everyone here the best.

daylily

[portia guest]

Mud, thank you for posting. Good to hear you.

Daylily, thank you for saying what you wanted to.

I think I've had enough to be honest. Anyone wants to, please PM or email me anytime. There ya go. P

[reallyME]

Penelope:

Was it "wrong" of me to be happy cause of the way you reacted?  Should I have been more happy just about myself?

My biggest concern in ever posting on this board, is that nobody is told that their feelings are wrong...feelings just ARE.  I don't like people being invalidated nor do I choose to be, which is why I have always stood my ground on things I believed in.  I am enjoying all your comments, Penelope and am very glad we have worked things out to a place that we can talk with goodness in our communication and even learn from each other.

For those of you leaving the board, Godspeed to you and may you find fulfillment in whatever you pursue.

I'm staying here, as I have found a place that values me at least in some small way, and I enjoy coming here after a busy day at the restaurant or college, and catchin up on things with everyone.

~Laura