Author Topic: Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~  (Read 5195 times)

isittoolate

  • Guest
Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~
« on: February 05, 2007, 02:37:22 PM »
General Comments about Shame

Shame is often an underappreciated psychological state. Particularly in the modern world, but also throughout history, shame-- in limited quantities and small doses--has facilitated civilized conduct and made both individuals and cultures behave more appropriately. But healthy shame, on the other hand, keeps us in touch with reality, and reminds us of our limitations, faults, and humanity. When experiencing healthy shame an individual may not be very happy to have embarrassing weaknesses and defects made obvious, but this awareness is insightful and humbling. As long as an individual is capable of self-doubt and self-reflection about his behavior; he is able to remain open-minded and willing to search for a better understanding of himself and others.

Excessive or inappropriate shame is another thing altogether, communicating forcibly to the individual that he or she is worthless. Shame can be an exceedingly devastating and painful experience

Children who live with constant hostility and criticism learn to defend against the bad feelings and shame within; and to externalize blame onto others. Projection and paranoia, which are both external assignments of blame, are psychological defenses against shame.

Often this excessive shame is dealt with by humiliating someone perceived as weaker or more worthless than the shamed person (e.g., the family pet, women, Gays, or outside groups serve this function for both individuals and cultures).


Guilt is an emotion that rises after a transgression of one's own or cultural values. Guilt is about actions or behavior; while shame is about the self. There is an important psychological difference in saying to someone that their behavior is bad; as contrasted with saying that they are bad. The former leads to guilt; the latter to shame.

The purpose of guilt is to stop behavior that violates a self, family or societal standard. Guilt keeps score on excesses or deficits of behavior deemed undesirable and is expressed in regret and remorse.

Eventually for the shame-avoidant person, reality itself must be distorted in order to further protect the self from poor self-esteem. Blaming other individuals or groups for one's own behavior becomes second nature, and this transfer of blame to someone else is an indicator of internal shame.

Most psychological theorists (Erikson, Freud, Kohut) see shame as a more “primitive” emotion (since it impacts one’s basic sense of self) compared to guilt, which is developed later in the maturation of the self. Without the development of guilt there is no development of a real social conscience.

This was the beginning of this site
http://drsanity.blogspot.com/2005/08/shame-arab-psyche-and-islam.html

HOW do we deal with Shame?
Izzy

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13621
Re: Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2007, 02:57:05 PM »
Love, Izzy, just oceans of love poured over the inner little kid who feels shame.

Repetitive reassurance that is heartfelt.

You are a good, wonderful, smart little girl.
You are a fine grownup.
You've learned so much from the challenges in your life.
Look what you've done.
Look what you continue to do.
You are a dignified, lovely, creative person.

You have nothing to be ashamed of. Whether you behaved well or badly yesterday,
you can let it go now, and enjoy today.

The past is over and today is a GOOD day to love yourself.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

moonlight52

  • Guest
Re: Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2007, 03:50:39 PM »
Hi Hops and Izzy,

Is there a difference between shame & guilt and a conscience????
 kids can grow up feeling guilty for being abused .....what little kid deserves to be physically and emotionally abused?????

What I mean is some children that were abused grow up and do not stop the cycle of abuse some do stop the cycle .     

These adult children are wounded and some may hurt themselves and then some come to understanding the one who abused them  was at fault , instead of blaming themselves this is healthy.
And finally come to the point where they know the person that abused them   was to blame.

And then feel no  shame or guilt for saying I was abused this is what happened and the truth.But after going thru the healthy understanding that as a child they in no way deserved what happened to them takes away the burden of blaming self for  abuse .

Also another healthy understanding is to say my abuser must have been hurt themselves as a child and at this point there is no blame and one is unhooked and free......

After this point a real healing can occur and no one is blamed but the truth is not denied.

« Last Edit: February 06, 2007, 01:11:55 AM by moonlight »

Leah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2894
  • Joyous Discerner
Re: Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2007, 06:03:56 PM »
Hi Izzy, Hops & Moon,

Really interesting post.

Guilt then Remorse then Shame.

What one did that was bad leads to Guilt

Saying that one is bad leads to Shame

"But without the development of guilt there is no development of a real social conscience."

Hence, maybe, the reason why some have absolutely no Shame then.

Leah (thinking and pondering!)


Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

isittoolate

  • Guest
Re: Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2007, 06:07:00 PM »
Hiya Hops and Moon

I understand that GUILT is about an action as opposed to SHAME being about YOU--it is embedded in your core self.

My mother always said "Shame on you! Shame,s hame on you!" when one of us kids did something wrong! Can I overcome 67 years of shame.

"Shame is an inner sense of being completely diminished or insufficient as a person. It is the self judging the self. A moment of shame may be humiliation so painful or an indignity so profound that one feels one has been robbed of her or his dignity or exposed as basically inadequate, bad, or worthy of rejection. A pervasive sense of shame is the ongoing premise that one is fundamentally bad, inadequate, defective, unworthy, or not valid as a human being."

Therefore, guilt is not synonymous with shame.

"Guilt is the developmentally more mature, though painful feeling of regret one has about behavior that has violated a personal value." Kaufman said in The Psychology of Shame. "Guilt is immorality shame."



????????????????????
Izzy

moonlight52

  • Guest
Re: Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2007, 06:10:26 PM »
Hi Izzy and all

I do understand the difference between guilt and shame .
I try to own my own emotions now and do not blame others. Isn't that  stopping the cycle?
Is that not the reason for healing to stop abuse whether it is self abuse or abusing others?

The reason for the Healing process to be unhooked not a victim perpetrator or rescuer????
I was shamed as a kid I have overcome a lot of this .We make mistakes intention is a important aspect.
I am responsible for my emotions anything else is codependency.

One's core does not have to be forever embedded with guilt or shame .what is needed I think  is to be able to look within and do the work and heal
(a therapist is very helpful).



vesb is real healing

m



« Last Edit: February 06, 2007, 01:14:26 AM by moonlight »

isittoolate

  • Guest
Re: Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2007, 06:20:02 PM »
Conscience is the awareness that an action conforms to or is contrary to one's standards of right and wrong

***********************************

"Shame is a master emotion, regulating the expression of other feelings,"

"Entire families can share feelings of shame over events  and the family's implicit rule becomes not to talk about painful life  experiences of all kinds,"


That is why my parents never talked about my baby brother's death, why there was no discussion about the beatings, and why my father said that whatever happened in our home, stayed at home
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 06:29:45 PM by isittoolate »

Leah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2894
  • Joyous Discerner
Re: Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2007, 06:35:42 PM »

Shame is a psychological condition induced by the consciousness or awareness of dishonor, disgrace, or condemnation.

Genuine shame is associated with genuine dishonor, disgrace, or condemnation.

False shame is associated with false condemnation as in the double-bind form of false shaming; "he brought what we did to him upon himself". Therapist John Bradshaw calls shame the "emotion that lets us know we are finite".


Characterizing shame

Shame vs. guilt


There is no standard distinction between shame and guilt. The cultural anthropologist Ruth Benedict describes shame as a violation of cultural or social values while feelings of guilt arise from violations of internal values. It is possible to feel ashamed of thought or behavior that no one knows about as well as feeling guilty about actions that gain the approval of others. However, In Facing Shame, therapists Fossum and Mason state "While guilt is a painful feeling of regret and responsibility for one's actions, shame is a painful feeling about oneself as a person." Shame is believed to be needed to establish limits, in childhood, since young children are unable to associate cause and effect by themselves. However, as children become better able to judge their own actions, guilt becomes the conscience former. Although, in general, guilt guides adult consciences, intrinsic shame is often present in adults too, as shaming is a form of religious, political, and/or legal control in cultures worldwide.


Shame vs. embarrassment

Shame differs from embarrassment in that it does not necessarily involve public humiliation: one can feel shame for an act known only to oneself, but in order to be embarrassed, one's actions must be revealed to others. Also, shame carries the connotation of a response to qualities that are considered morally wrong, whereas one can be embarrassed regarding actions that are morally neutral but socially unacceptable (such as an accident). Another view of the difference between shame and embarrassment is that the two emotions lie on a continuum and only differ in intensity. The wish to sink into the ground and disappear from view, to hide oneself from eyes that witness one's embarrassment or humiliation is common to both.


Toxic shame

Psychologists often use the term 'toxic' shame to describe false, and therefore, pathological shame. Therapist John Bradshaw states that toxic shame is induced, inside children, by all forms of child abuse. Incest and other forms of child sexual abuse can cause particularly severe toxic shame. Toxic shame often induces what is known as complex trauma in children who cannot cope with toxic shaming as it occurs and who dissociate the shame until it is possible to cope with.

Shame (and shaming) is often associated with torture (see the psychology of torture). It is also a central feature of punishment, shunning, or ostracism. In addiction, shame is often seen in victims of child neglect, child abuse and a host of other crimes against children. Parental incest is considered the ultimate form of shaming by child psychologists.


Religious shame

Shame is a key (if controversial) theme in religion. Religions that claim only God or other spiritual beings are perfect in that sense impute a certain kind of shame on human beings. In many cases, that shame is associated with sexuality and other carnal characteristics of human beings, though others would argue that only sinful expressions of those characterstics should be shameful.

Religious faith can create the basis for shame because shame reflects internalized ideas as to what is right and proper and about what is wrong and improper. This means that torture tactics intended to shame religious adherents might merely titillate other people (e.g., nudity). Conversely, religions may associate honor with certain behaviors (e.g, martyrdom in Christianity, veils in Islam) that others consider shameful. The ideas and the strength with which religious (and other) ideas are held seems to influence whether shame occurs and how much shame occurs in a subject.

Shaming and sometimes shunning is a theme in many religions as tactic to control or disorderly members. In some cases a church member can be shamed and shunned for reporting abuses that happen inside churches. The infamous case of Mary Byler [1] an Amish woman who was shunned for reporting repeated rapes by her relatives is one extreme example of the use of shunning to enforce order within a church.


Vicarious shame


Psychologists recently introduced the notion of vicarious shame, which refers to the experience of shame on behalf of another person. Individuals vary in their tendency to experience vicarious shame, which is related to neuroticism and to the tendency to experience personal shame. Extremely shame-prone people might even experience vicarious vicarious shame: shame on behalf of another person who is already feeling shame on behalf of a third party (or possibly on behalf of the individual proper).


Shame in society

Shame also generally considered one pillar of socialization in all societies.

Shame is enshrouded in legal precedent as a pillar of punishment and ostensible correction.

Shame has been linked to narcissism in the psychoanalytic literature. It is one of the most intense emotions. The individual experiencing shame may feel totally despicable, worthless and feel that there is no redemption.

According to the anthropologist Ruth Benedict, cultures may be classified by their emphasis of using either shame or guilt to regulate the social activities of their members.

Shared opinions and expected behaviours that cause the feeling of shame (as well as an associated reproval) if violated by an individual are in any case proven to be very efficient in guiding behaviour in a group or society.

Shame is the favorite form of control used by those people who commit relational aggression, also known as female bullying. It is a potent weapon in marriage, family, and church settings. It is also used in the workplace as a form of covert social control or aggression.


« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 06:45:00 PM by leah_nomoretears »
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Gaining Strength

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3992
Re: Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2007, 06:46:14 PM »
Izzy - you can get through shame.  I finally found my way through the miasma of binding shame this past year.  It helped to keep tracing it back to my early childhood.  Each and every time I was transfixed by the physical sensation of shame, I found that I could trace it back to a shaming experience from my youth and then I could see that the shaming was wrong in every sense.  The next step was for me to see that shame as the same as self-condemnation and once I made that connnection I used my own voice to deny that.  I created affirmations or statements that simply identified my present experience as self-condemnation and then refused to participate in the process.  It was remarkably freeing. - Gaining Strength

moonlight52

  • Guest
Re: Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2007, 06:47:42 PM »
"Entire families can share feelings of shame over events  and the family's implicit rule becomes not to talk about painful life  experiences of all kinds.

I have reached out for healing along with other members of my family Everyone has the choice to work on their feelings say with a therapist and look within to find joy and relief.
I guess some people can live with the silence and voicelessness but that is not healing.Is it?

I am so sorry you lost your brother. I too lost a brother my twin .My mother did speak to me about the pain and did help me.
One half of my family does believe in discussing painful subjects and not repressing them and the other half does not believe in speaking of family pain.
I am so sorry you lost you brother we share this kind of loss It is not easy.

blessings to you

moon
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 07:06:46 PM by moonlight »

Leah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2894
  • Joyous Discerner
Re: Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2007, 06:50:56 PM »
We are accustomed to think of sociopaths as violent criminals, but in The Sociopath Next Door, Harvard psychologist Martha Stout reveals that a shocking 4 percent of ordinary people—one in twenty-five—has an often undetected mental disorder, the chief symptom of which is that that person possesses no conscience. He or she has no ability whatsoever to feel shame, guilt, or remorse. One in twenty-five everyday Americans, therefore, is secretly a sociopath. They could be your colleague, your neighbor, even family. And they can do literally anything at all and feel absolutely no guilt.

How do we recognize the remorseless? One of their chief characteristics is a kind of glow or charisma that makes sociopaths more charming or interesting than the other people around them. They’re more spontaneous, more intense, more complex, or even sexier than everyone else, making them tricky to identify and leaving us easily seduced. Fundamentally, sociopaths are different because they cannot love. Sociopaths learn early on to show sham emotion, but underneath they are indifferent to others’ suffering. They live to dominate and thrill to win.

Social predators severely lacking in conscience and empathy show no remorse and feel no shame

Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

isittoolate

  • Guest
Re: Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2007, 06:55:04 PM »
Beneath the self-adoring posturing of the narcissist, psychoanalysts say,
is a sense of shame and self-loathing. Early and repeated childhood
experiences that leave such people with a strong sense of being unlovable
impels them to prove their worthiness with ever more impressive triumphs.



I will post the link to where these gems are.

http://www.recovery.org/aa/aa-related/shame.html

Izzy

moonlight52

  • Guest
Re: Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2007, 06:56:52 PM »
We are all God's children blessing to you Izzy

HEALING is  OWNING ONES OWN FEELINGS....
I believe shame and guilt can be processed....

Before you can get to the no blame feeling and looking within is needed.


love to you
m
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 11:27:12 PM by moonlight »

Leah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2894
  • Joyous Discerner
Re: Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2007, 07:02:42 PM »
Quote
"Entire families can share feelings of shame over events  and the family's implicit rule becomes not to talk about painful life  experiences of all kinds,"


That is why my parents never talked about my baby brother's death, why there was no discussion about the beatings, and why my father said that whatever happened in our home, stayed at home


The above family policy is most likely common in many families, and it certainly was in my Nh's family, with my being shocked to the core a few months ago, when a bombshell was dropped during a family member's funeral reception.  If I had known then what was disclosed
and only by pure chance - definately no wedding!!

Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Leah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2894
  • Joyous Discerner
Re: Article regarding shame vs. guilt~~~
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2007, 07:19:38 PM »

Quote
I will post the link to where these gems are.

http://www.recovery.org/aa/aa-related/shame.html

a good find Izzy

interesting how it kicks off with .....

Psychologists, admittedly chagrined and a little embarrassed, are belatedly
focusing on shame, a prevalent and powerful emotion that somehow escaped
rigorous scientific examination until now.


Warm wishes,

Leah
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO