Author Topic: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???  (Read 10899 times)

isittoolate

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Re: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2007, 10:10:47 PM »
Camper

Am I to read in your posts that you want to stay with your  DH (what is that?) and
I am currently in counseling for "my" problems.

Does that mean you think ALL the problems are yours? and that is why you are here?

Just trying to get it straight/

Please tell us more about your problems

Love
Izzy

isittoolate

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Re: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2007, 10:56:36 PM »
Hi Sunny  8)  8)  8)

What a mess! Yes two arms are used for getting around when the legs won’t do it.

So don’t put any weight on it as it will heal crooked. My ankle did, 3 years ago when the Robo-boot swiveled a bit out of place.
What is the ACL?

Yes, well I was a track and field champion, a top bowler and the best dancer on the floor. Now I am oldddddddddddddddddd.

No cast? What on earth is covering this up? Oh just bandages? Eeeeeek! 3-4 weeks is good. From what you described sounded like 3-4 months!!!!!

About not complaining for you: Don’t complain, just ask for……………………???? It is beyond belief what “he” is doing!

I suggest (although it would be difficult for me) that you tell him that this is physical pain (no whining now!) and as your husband he must help you with no complaints. “Through sickness and in health?

If he needs his sleep then insist he go to another room. If doesn’t then you move but then………..(I did that with the N. When he spent too long downstairs viewing porn, I would go to sleep in the other room. He said, “If you’re going to sleep in here, then I will too, and crawled in…… Ya can’t win!)

When he becomes mad and rages, just quietly comment that raising 6 kids is enough, but when he becomes the 7th, the job is impossible!!!!

Did I write this or did you??
I do stuff myself a lot because I am used to it and I don't know how to respond to someone giving a sh** about me.  It actually makes me uncomfortable to accept help for that reason.  Don't know why anyone should care.  That's from mom and dad.  Thanks so very much!

That sister bit is detestable! The dinner is great , but then after you tell her sweetly how nice it was, say you and the children have chores to do and you are sorry you have to ask her to leave. Then you don’t complain to him.

I know I am wearing rose-coloured glasses right now but I leave them on until I am finished.

The part about the cooling system is abhorrent. And I can believe it makes you sick to type, but at least you can still feel something. I cannot, I’m sorry to say. I was broken very early in life and then broken more and more and –well see my post about 4th Therapy.

Tell him you cannot be his little kitten right now, but soon it will be over, and then you will be an angry Lioness and “THINGS ARE GONNA CHANGE AROUND HERE!”

OMG ! We all have our trials, and every single one must be solved in its own way depending upon the “players on the stage”
 
Best of Luck and Take Good Care                                                             
Love
Izzy

 

Hopalong

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Re: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2007, 11:57:16 PM »
Hey Iz,
I really do believe that healing and change happen to people throughout their lifespans.

I'd really like to know you, and what you think and feel, in 5 years.

You might try a different message you say to yourself.

Instead of "I was broken, am broken, and will always be broken..."

maybe you could try new thoughts about yourself:

"I was hurt, I went numb to protect myself, and I am very slowly thawing and healing." Eh?

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

camper

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Re: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2007, 08:57:46 AM »
Camper

Am I to read in your posts that you want to stay with your  DH (what is that?) and
I am currently in counseling for "my" problems.

Does that mean you think ALL the problems are yours? and that is why you are here?

Just trying to get it straight/

Please tell us more about your problems

Love
Izzy

DH is dear husb. In another forum I am in (a homeschooling forum), all the ladies refer to their husbands as such....I never liked it, because he is not dear IYKWIM. 

The part about being in counseling for MY problems.....that was a sarcastic joke...he projects everything on me so that it looks like everything is MY problem.  I am actually in counseling to deal with him.  This is the 4th counselor in 13 years.  My H has had me believing that I am the one with the problem so I was searching for a counselor that would tell me I have problems...I know...sad!  This counselor is really good and saw right through him (as did the last one).  I have never heard the term N though.  I had read the book "Why Does He Do That" and that opened my eyes.  It sure helps to understand him.  I can deal with it much better.  My H doesn't have an anger issue.  Quite the opposite, he doesn't allow me to get angry.  I am actually having fun pointing out his crap to him.  I am playing around with it.  If he starts going on about what idiots people are, I just agree.  You should see him then...quite comical...he isn't sure how to react. 

My H is a typical N and in searching the internet to find out more about it, I came across this board.  So glad I did.  It helped me to see that he isn't sooo bad.  Not nearly like Sunny's H.  I have to tell you that we are Christians.  Because I have my faith, anything is possible.  I have a whole church family behind me if I should need to go to them.  My H works really hard at being a follower of Jesus.  Because of his N, he just can't grasp it.  He twists it all to his advantage.  He is humbly self-centered(oxymoron).  He has a group of men he meets with (bible study & accountibility) every Friday that I could go to.  I am not saying he will ever change as I think all this is way too ingrained.  But I do know I won't have to put up with what Sunny does.  (sorry Sunny) 

That's it (a short version).   

DivineSunshine

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Re: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2007, 01:31:53 PM »
Hey Izzy,

I did read your post before.  I feel like such a hypocrite to answer any one, that I don't answer posts too much.  But I did read it.  I didn't know about your estranged daughter.  I was the same way when I told my T about my n/c with my mother and father.  Pretty matter-of-fact about it.  Sounds like the SIL is  a piece of work!  Sometimes I think you know what you know and talking doesn't seem like it is gonna help.  I know part of my n/c with my mom is to protect her from my NH.  I dunno if they means anything to you, but I thought I'd share.  didn't even realize it for a while.  But it is true.  And he keeps me so busy reeling and coping I don't have the appropriate time to devote to our past  or our present relationship.  It's sad but true.

And what fun to hear about the track and field.  I could say the same.  Although as i got older I focused on and won the field events so I guess I could still do those if I wanted.  Since my arms are not hurt.  But, I love the bond and the new insight. 

You made me laugh about the sister strategy! I have to tell you---SHE is actually worse than my NH, if you can believe that.  Even he is scared of her.  She was badly burned in a fire when she was young and has become a mean, ornry, self-centered woman through the years.  Everyone is afraid of her bitterness and vile.  My H lets her walk all over him.  Her husband has actually tried to kill himself and is an alcoholic and I don't blame him a bit.  She really is awful.  All but ONE of his siblings are.  One saint sister and 4 monster brothers who too are worse than him.  Crazy, crazy, people.  Believe it or not.  It is pretty scary and sickening really.

My family  (FOO) is harmless  but misguided and very emotionally disconnected to the point of coldness.  But not physical harm.  Luckily.  I guess.

And yes, the knee and stitches are hanging out bare.  I guess they do things pretty different with this injury.  Most people are surprised.  And as far as my recovery time.  I am being optimistic.  The doc says 2 months, but I am determined to beat that.  I know I might need the extra time to mentally build strength, but I am hoping for 3-4 weeksto be able to limp or maybe a cane or brace or something.  And the ACL is the Anterior Cruciate Ligament which is a ligament which runs inside the bones to connect them underneath the kneecap, I think, and it had to be replaced because inside the bones it won't heal on it's own.  The had to drill new holes in my bones to thread it through and hold it in place with screws.  Shiver.  Bleck, glad I was out for that!

Thanks sooooo much for 'talking' to me about this.  It has been therapeutic.  I don't tell too many people really any details because I figure....why do THEY give a dang.  Don't mean to be that way, it is habit though.  And thanks for the kind words and understanding and advice.  Especially advice!  I do admire your courage since I have had a mere taste of things. 

BTW, I have 4 daughters and I hope like crazy they don't turn their backs on me one day, but part of me will understand if they do.  They have to make their own pathways in life, just as any of us do. 

You have a beautiful soul. 

Namaste,

Sunny

isittoolate

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Re: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2007, 02:37:23 PM »
Hi sunny
Thank you for your response. I enjoyed it.

If you have metal things inserted in your knee you can set off airport alarms--have a lot of fun with it--then tell them you forgot and pull out your x-rays

I have stainless steel rods in my back but they don't ring any alarms.

Yes talking helps and on here we have an assortment of problems come to light. Some are difficult to relate to, but if one has been through it, then we know what it's about. but what a place to share our lives!!!!

When adversity strikes, we just have to deal with it because we cannot go back in time to change it. Aren't we lucky that we don't know the future? We might kill ourselves immediately.  :D

I did ask my daughter how she would feel if one of her children turned on her and she said it would never happen.  It did!! When her N brainwashed the eldest, at 14 to come live with him. After these 6 years, as he is now 20, he has N traits--me, me, me but I don't think he has 'harmed anyone yet' . He might just be annoying and that is the little boy I had to leave when he was 4½.

I would never tell my daughter "I told you so" re marrying the N and re losing one of her children. Her pain is her paiin and we all know how much these thiings hurt.

Take Care


Love Izzy

Edit in: I forgot to tell you I was pretty good a pool and snooker as well. Dated a guy who was friends with the Ontario pool champion and learned a lot of tricks.  So I moved and there was a pool hall in the commissary. I was in there beating the guys and suddenly there was a sign posted "No Woman Allowed". (That was 1961) The end of my career.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2007, 03:22:21 PM by isittoolate »

camper

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Re: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2007, 03:22:28 PM »
Camper,

I understand where you are coming from.  I come from the same kind of background--homeschooler, church, etc.  Many counselors that helped me work on me.  None could make a dent in him.  He went to Promise Keepers, Tres Dias, men's support groups, retreats, accountability groups, etc, etc, etc. 

I do hope things work out for you.  And I'm glad you have church support.  Sounds like your NH is mostly into control and, hopefully, you can work around that with minimal pain.

Keep posting, Camper.  We are good listeners!

CB

So, did you ever go to anyone in his "circle"?  I would think my H's accountability group would help me out!  Unless they are N's themselves :?  I know our pastor isn't an N.  Are you no longer with your N?  Did he throw scripture at you to shut you up and put you in your place?

Big ?:  HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR CHILDREN FROM TURNING OUT WITH HUGE ISSUES?????

DivineSunshine

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Re: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2007, 03:59:40 PM »
Hilarious Izzy!  The NO WOMAN ALLOWED!  Good for you!  And brave for that time.  I think. 

I will have to re-invent myself for hobbies like that maybe, doc says I won't ever have the same knee again.   Just trying to keep calories down while sitting so much so I don't gain weight.  I am getting lots less exercise.  Any good ideas for that stuff?

Getting sick o me yet?  heheee!

Sunny

Have a lovely day/evening!

isittoolate

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Re: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2007, 07:29:54 PM »
Hi sunny

No I am not sick of you

I have been sitting for almost 38 years. I am 5'10", even when I am sitting I still think of it that way, but if I get into a department store amongst the clothing racks and can't find a way out, I know what a little kid feels like, who has lost sight of his mother. I can take , healthwise, 150#. I was 130# at the time of the accident, dropped to 127# in that years.(most people dropped about 50#) The lightest I have been was 118# when I had a thyroid problem. What a bone rack!

At 130# the maintenance man at work said I looked like an ironing board with 2 peas glued on it. so I said when he turned sideways and stuck out his tongue he looked like a zipper!

That was off topic. i am a little heavier now but have no way to know what I weigh. I cannot stand on scales. When in hospital we had a large scale, and were put in in our chairs. Whatever, minus 30#----40#----50# for the chair was deducted and that was our weight.

I am still wearing clothes I wore 20 years ago-----------------what????????? I better go shopping,---------------------- so I must be in my
proper range!

Hey camper

HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR CHILDREN FROM TURNING OUT WITH HUGE ISSUES?????

What ages are your children? As one must begin at the beginning, so I have discovered----too late! Love, touching, boundaries, insight, trust, comfort, feeling safe, admiration (but not too much to make them egotistical) anything to make them love themselves and feel they are a worthwhile individual!!

Make sense?

Good

and I failed!

love
Izzy

debkor

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Re: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2007, 01:58:07 AM »
CB and Camper.

Your right you don't know about the issues your children will have.  I can tell you something though.  My son who is 20 now has the same friends he has had since he was little. Maybe 7th grade. 
There is issues in all their families.  From divorce, to death of parents. There is also another friend of his who I suspect that his dad was a Giant N. These kids are working out their issues with each other.  There are no more secrets amongst them.
They all share with each other and don't feel so Odd ball out. When one is feeling down their is another holding them up. They formed a brotherhood.  They don't judge.  They listen and what amazes me is they validate.  They give the others voice's.  They have no clue what they are doing!  This is all coming natural to them.  They love each other as family.
They have no guilt.  They have no fault. They know they could not change things.  They are healing through each other.  They know they are not different then anyone else.  They know some of the other friends families are still in denial and the friends are out of control (due to the denial). I see boys growing into men.  I see them taking responsibility.

CB you have given your children this gift.  You have freed them to have a life.  They will find their own way of healing just like the kids I speak of above. 
It takes a little time till they find their comfort spot. It will come. 
Try not to worry. 

Love
Deb


camper

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Re: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2007, 09:48:49 AM »
Thanks to Sunny, I am reading "Controlling People".  Sunny, I drove 40 miles north and picked it up at Barnes & Noble, used my debit card and put a book cover one it, "Believing God" by Beth Moore. 

anyway, I read some profound stuff this morning, so profound I had to write it down.  Here it is:

We can best see our inner reality when it is reflected back to us without distortion.

children who are nurtured, supoprted, and clearly mirrored by their caretakers can see themselves clearly.  If not, they let others define who they are.

It is senseless to tell someone that what they are experiencing isn't what they are experiencing.

We learn to describe and accept our personal experiences when it is accurately named my another (with empathy).  We give it a conscious thought.  If not, we may experience mistreatment as normal.

How's that for answering my own question.  I know if I point this out to my H he will listen because he loves his boys and doesn't want them to grow up with issues like he has.  I will tell him I got it out of Christianity Today magazine.  Excerpts from a book "I forgot to write down" :).  All these things will help my boys,12 & 9, grow up with a healthy self image.  When kids aren't validated, they get disconnected from who they are and in turn, let others define them.  I can see this is why my H is sucking the life out of me.  He is using me to define him and needs my validation.  He demands my positive validation.  He has used manipulation and control to get it. 

CB:  I wish you wouldn't have edited.  I really want to know those thoughts.  I don't like pretty pictures painted, leaving out what I think could be important.  It is ok with me to hear your experiences.  It's ok to disagree.  My boys were at a Christian school and it closed.  I had pulled my 9yo out of school mid-year, 1st grade, because he wasn't reading.  We started 1st gr. over with A Beka.  It left a bad taste in his mouth for school and he just doesn't want to go back to a school.  He is only in 3rd grade now, so I am not too concerned.  My 12 yo begged me to homeschool when the school closed.  This is my second year with him.  He is going to a school next year.  At the age of 12, I understand that he needs to get away from under mom, and find who he is as he grows into a man.  We have a huge circle of homeschool friends...mostly boys, as in, everything the homeschoolers do, it is always a huge group of boys.  We all camp together too.  I don't think I am hurting him by not exposing him to more friends.  He is also involved in sports where he has lots of friends.

What did you edit???  I want to know the bad thoughts.  I want to know if my pie-in-the-sky ideals are just that.  You have walked the same path....help me see clearly!  I won't be offended and hate you! 

I thought you had good advice and I didn't detect anything nasty.  I know we are all in this together, a bond, and we don't wish to hurt one another, heck, haven't we already been hurt enough?  I know you mean well or are "good-willed".  The super-mom thing...I realize I can't do it all.  Only one big problem her, my H expects it all.  I feel like I have to send my boys to school so I can: keep the house clean enough for him; be welcoming when he gets home from work rather than stressed trying to get dinner ready; not be tired at night so I have energy for him; have time to sit with him and adore him; and it goes on and on, all for HIM.  Homeschooling is taking important time and energy away from him...it is all about him.  Even Iif I tried, I could never give him all the attention he needs and I have told him so.  He looks to me for his happiness, as I've told him, and he did discover that I alone can't make him happy, only Jesus can do that. 

Last night we had this conversation about public speaking.  A girl in my youth group is validictorian of her class and has to make a speech at graduation.  she is very nervous about it and wants to bring her faith into it.  I was telling my H about this and he went on and on about exactly what she should do and how she should do it.  I said, "wow, sounds like you would be a great public speaker(he's not).  When ever you get up to speak your voice gets all shakey."  First he got defensive and said, " that's just my thoughts".  He agreed and said he gets physically sick to his stomach when he has to make a speech.  then he told me about in high school he had to give a speech at the annual sports banquet and how hard it was.  I asked what his dad said...he couldn't remember him being there.  (his dad is the source of his issues so I wanted to probe).  Where am I going with this!!! :?  Maybe I will remember and continue later...

My H always talks as if he knows evrything.  Lays it all out for me what I should say, word for word.  And however I respond (something as to, boy you know, or how do you know) he always comes back with, "that's just my opinion".  He did this with my youth group girl.  He conjured up a plan for her.  Imparted his wisdom.

I need to get going here....CB tell me, talk to me, lay it on thick...if I am naive here...tell me!  anyone else???  You have all been in my shoes.  Help me out here.  Get me thinking about things. 

MaryKay with big shoulders and an open mind

DivineSunshine

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Re: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2007, 02:14:57 PM »
Hey Camper!

Good for you!  Glad you picked up that book.  I just started reading it again and forgot just how good it WAS!  I knew I liked it, but yes.  I find myself hi-lighting EVERYTHING!  Practically.

Read on...you'll probably love the "Teddy" scenario!  Let me know.

Izzy,

What's happenin' hot stuff!  Geez, I am 5' 11" and haven't seen below 150# since 9th grade!  Big bones er somethin.  Still size 12/14 though and i'd like to keep it around there although 10 is nice for me.  I know, I know---all useless info.

And as far as kids go......hell, no one gets it right!  There is no pass or fail.  Chin up sweetie! :)   


Hope everyone has a great weekend!  Love reading this thread!  You guys are always so much fun sharing with!  And listening to as things develop.

Namaste,

Sunny

Margo

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Re: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2007, 05:30:26 PM »
::gulp:: You must be a tower of strength to make it through all you live with. 

I was going to impart a couple suggestions but.... I'm not in a very good position to do so just now.  Just know that you aren't insane..... you're confused.  When we're confused..... we don't want to know what's going on around us.  Get de-mystified and begin documenting documenting documenting.  If for no other reason than to help you feel better and more in control.  I'm talking about financial papers all the way to how he speaks to you and rages at the family.  You'll have more power if you have knowledge and can produce examples of his abusive behavior. 

Good luck and please.... quit doubting your sanity.  Get your friends involved in your life and share your situation with them.  It's hard..... I know... but, secrecy is your husbands best friend: /  Margo

camper

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Re: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2007, 09:06:02 AM »
MaryKay,

I want to write a good answer to your questions and I have no brain today!  You know how when you are in high gear for a long time and then the pressure lets up and there's nothing left?  That's me today!

I am just trying to keep enough brain cells to get my house cleaned up for company.  But I havent forgotten your last post and I'll be back.

Many blessings, to you, MK,

CB

I am waiting...you are keeping me in suspense.  I had an appointment with my therapist yesterday and I felt it was useless.  Talked about things I already knew.  Therapists is still trying to get to know me.  He suggested i read the Peter Pan Syndrom.  Have another appointment in two weeks.  In reading the controlling book, I feel I can wait. 

I feel so much better because I am understanding how my H operates, and why he does.  I actually do a really great job handling him.  I really feel good.

camper

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Re: Opinions from moms (or dads--or human beings) out there???
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2007, 10:06:29 AM »
Quote
He was a seminary graduate that spent hours every day poring over the Scriptures.  We shared the same interests and faith.  It never crossed my mind that I would be where I am now.  That I would ever see what I have seen.

This just boggles my mind!  How can this be???  Our church has a children's pastor(who was the youth pastor) who has a counselor's (masters)degree from seminary.  I had worked with him in youth ministries for 5 years so I know him very well.  I am debating going to him to pick his brain.  You know the whole "submissive" "respecting" wife thing, turning it all over to the Lord?  I can't figure out how that works in this situation.  Is this a sin issue that others need to come to him?  My H never got affirmation from his dad and that is the big issue.  My H is so caught up in doing what's right.  I think that that is what is going to save us.  I am not sure I can keep this NPR a secret from our church.  I think it may help to start with our pastor.  There is another couple at our church who is in counseling with him and this H is a N.  (we are in the Wives parent's small group).  The strange thing is, this pastor recently asked my H how he could pray for us as the Lord was nudging him over us.  He asked my H if there was something going on.  My H said he didn't think so but he would ask me.  I came really close to talking to him at that time but just couldn't.  I had to say that everything was fine.  Why is it that I want to protect my H from all the church people that look up to him and think so highly of him?  Our small group host gets so excited when my H is coming for bible study.  I cringe!  My H comes across as being so intelligent and biblically knowledgeagble.  The bible knowledge is all in his head and the intellegence is a cover-up.  He talks about himself all the time.  I have pointed out to him that whenever we go anywhere together, I disappear next to him because the conversations are always about him.  I have started to not stand next to him anymore because I can't stand listening to his stuff and all the sympathy they pour on him.  I can't talk to others in his presence and seem too interested because my H gets jealous....why aren't I that interested in him.  I have to be careful.  When he is not around, I love to socialize. 

Quote
It triggers powerful grief in me to see it--but the reason I deleted my post is because you are on your own journey and you deserve your own timetable and your own story.  Not mine.  I'm not pulling my punch because I don't think you can "take" my answer, but because I don't know that I have the answer.  You still believe everything that I once believed, and the grief over losing it is too great to say anything to discourage you.  It's about me, not you.
I am so sorry for your grief here!  I am so sorry you ended up where you are.  We all have our own journey and it really does help to hear how others handled it.  sometimes the Lord puts people in our lives for a reason.  Like I said, my H is so caught up in doing the right thing that I honestly think he would do whatever necessary to save his marriage.  My H can't be alone...whenever I and the boys go somewhere(camping without him)  he goes crazy.  He will drive for 2 hrs one way just to spend the night.   He would die if he were to be left alone without his boys.  It would totally crush him.  I can hold that over him.  If things did get bad and I walked out...he would change fast.

Are you still in a church?  Where did your H go?  How did the church handle that?  How old are your kiddos? How are you handling the processing?  About homeschooling...Your children are better for it.  You did a good thing for them.  Kids adapt pretty well.  I love my boys being home.  It is time though to ship one off to school.  I recognize I can't smother him and make him give up basketball just to keep him here.  I have a friend who is like that(although her H is demanding their boys go to school next year and she is sick about it).  Boys, especially, at age 12, need to get out from under their mother.  They are at a critical stage in their development.  Other mothers are kind enough to explain that to me.

I am starting to escape to my bedroom to write things down that I see are dysfunctional, specific things.  I am going to hang on to hope.  For my boys sake, I have to do that.  I appreciate all your input, even the cynical pessimistic input.  If I can help you in your journey, I want to.  Sounds like you could use some encouragement.  Also sounds like you are well on your way!  You sound like you have things under control and are very wise.  Try not to beat yourself up for how things turned out!  You did your best and you have no control over what your H did!  You can only make the best out of your life now.  Don't let him have that hold over you anymore.  When it comes to a N....life deals you chaos and there is no making sense of it so don't try to!  You are wiser than that!!!

I look forward to running things by you in the future.  Bless your heart for opening up.   I can see how painful it is!!

MaryKay